Right, a call to action! (4 Viewers)

mark82 · May 17, 2012

Paxman II said:
Hmmm....the sentiment is correct but guys the business world turns in mysterious ways and there are more than one way to skin a cat.

Whoever owns the stadium (and I've posted it elsewhere) the deal should ensure it will be a benefit of CCFc and not SISU per-say. That's the complicated issue for the negotiators to resolve who all know the truth and the facts.

The problem is we don't. Harping on with such sentiments as these only continue with rumour and conjecture and are not based on ant facts.

Paul Fletcher came out with a few comments regarding the shares issue originally and after reading that I gained a few more facts I was unaware of and realised the council played dirty too!

So guys lets leave this to the protagonist at the table and stop speculating and assuming complaining to the council is the right thing.

Those of you who have experience in business for any period of time may understand where I'm coming from. Those of you who have never had a business perhaps should defer your opinions until you know all the facts.

Respect your opinion, but I think most on here understand the facts. We understand that the council have in the past played dirty and wrestled a share of the stadium from the club. The rest was virtually given away by the previous regime. Now is not the time to give it back. SISU have been open that liquidation is on their minds. Who is to say that giving them a share in the stadium doesn't just delay that liquidation for a year.

You say you are in business. Would you sell a share of your business to someone who isn't going to look after it and potentially liquidate it?

dongonzalos · May 17, 2012

mark82 said:
Respect your opinion, but I think most on here understand the facts. We understand that the council have in the past played dirty and wrestled a share of the stadium from the club. The rest was virtually given away by the previous regime. Now is not the time to give it back. SISU have been open that liquidation is on their minds. Who is to say that giving them a share in the stadium doesn't just delay that liquidation for a year.

You say you are in business. Would you sell a share of your business to someone who isn't going to look after it and potentially liquidate it?

There are always two sides to every story, the council say due to state aid they could not offer the deal. Lawyers from both sides looked at this and agreed. So they must have been telling the truth (Not a scam)

They then offered Coventry 50% of ACL as a compromise. (Reasonable) CCFC said we cant afford to buy it sorry can you take the lot and give us the money instead. (CCFC asked for this). That is what he council have done.

SISU have come in and not stipulated that as part of their deal the council must sell that 50% share to them for the 6.5 million either now or within 5 years. Yet they knew how important this is (Bad business practice)

SISU now want it for nothing or a deal that does not involve them coughing up the 6.5 million. Having seen the way they have ran the club so far the council were saying not on your Nellie, we would be negligent in our duties to tax payers. Don't forget Coventry has a population of approx 300k so Cov fans represent about 10%.

I have a feeling given the choice most of the tax payers may say to the council don't give SISU half the Rioch. Unfortunately they are not getting that choice....

So to ask the council to give people the choice and give them all the facts you refer to is probably quite a good idea.

SISU are secretive dodgy gits but the council are a public entity subject to Freedom of Information Act so these secret behind closed doors meetings will have recorded minutes that the CET should be able to apply to have access to.

Then maybe we will see all the facts your refer to Paxman.

SISU and Coventry City are no poor victims here beaten up by the bad council

The fans are, agreed.

The council were asked to take the lot and they did that. They are not obligated to SISU.

They are in the very rare position that they have the power to make SISU start doing the right thing as they have what SISU want.

If they hand it over without making such agreements, that every revenue generated from it has to be reinvested into the football club then they would be nincompoops.

Anyone who has been in business or not be it owning a cashwash employing 2 people to owning a company employing 5000 I think could see that.....

Otis · May 17, 2012

gary_ccfcforever said:
so paxman once again you want us to sit and do nothing??

I dont proclaim to have a bussiness mind however when faced with the facts about sisu over the last 4 years, being a Coventry Tax payer and a Season ticket holder I do not want SISU capital to gain any sort of control over the Ricoh Arena.

Where has the money suddenly appeared from for this deal??

Sisu don't invest -we are relegated as a result.

Sisu start bleating that our income streams have been cut in half due to relegation, whos fault is that??? So they have the money to purchase the half share.. why wasnt this money invested in the squad last season to keep us in the championship or even try to make us competitive enough to mount a promotion charge and therefore increasing our income streams rather than end up in a situatio where they are slashed in half??

Now they want a cut price deal on the Ricoh because of their own mistakes and shortcomings... no i just don't buy it.

People are saying surely this is a good thing?? Please tell me how?? Can you see SISU suddenly giving us a budget to gain promotion? No! SISU care only for themselves not for Coventry City FC and its fans. It doesnt matter which way i look at this it just spells further bad news for CCFC and its fans and the Coventry tax payer and for that reason i cant sit back and do nothing.

Granted the council are not blameless but i'd rather them keep control over SISU right now!

Thing is, this council is our council and we have the power to do something about them if we don't like what they are doing. They can be voted out.

The council work on behalf of the city and it is the council we reply upon to do the right thing as far as ownership of the stadium is concerned.

They have the power to veto any moves for ownership etc. It is all right and proper for us to approach the council and air our concerns. After all, Sisu have never seemingly listened to us have they!

Paxman II · May 17, 2012

This is the point. I'm not being patronising at all.
I have never said we should give SISU the Ricoh!?

There are more ways than one way to skin a cat I said.

Some on here refuse to hear and want to simply maintain a negative stance. That would not get anyone anywhere in negotiations would it?

There can be a deal with SISU that can procure revenue streams to aid the clubs survival. Those deals can be in many different forms.
Money doesn't even have to change hands. Balloon notes, deadlines, various payback options can be arranged in contracts that are legally binding which may even include 'no ownership rights' of the stadium for SISU. but may give them the right to seek investment in the stadium from other interested parties? That could lead the way for example for Hoffman's band to come back to SISU and talk.

SISU are not simply going to go away holding a £40m debt folks. There are ways around this impasse that can help the club. Perhaps the Council can strike a deal that confirms SISU's departure at a future date once certain conditions are met? So many ways to skin a cat.

dongonzalos · May 17, 2012

Dear Councillor Mutton,

As a fellow Coventry City Fan and citizen of the city of Coventry itself, I implore the council during these current negotiations, not to allow any part sale of the Ricoh Arena to the current incumbents of our club, SISU.

I like everyone else I am sure, would be very happy if something could be sorted out re the rent of the arena and this could be said for whoever were in charge of the club. I think I the vast majority of City fans have very strong reservations over the current owner's motives in getting their hands on any part of the stadium. At the end of the day we need to ensure that the right thing is done both for CCFC and the city of Coventry and its taxpayers.

We need owners we can trust and owners who will pro-actively seek to change the fortunes of CCFC for the better rather than look after their own self-interest.

I entrust you to do the right thing here and hope there is transparency on all sides.

I would be happy instead if some of the money raised from ACL is provided directly to Coventry City to be invested in playing staff. None of it should go to SISU.

So in a way instead of just reducing the rent for SISU we are ensuring that any financial gain for them is invested directly into Coventry City football's squad.

Success on the pitch will eventually give SISU what they want i.e. selling the club

Yours Sincerely,

dongonzalos · May 17, 2012

Finally we seem to have a voice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brighton Sky Blue · May 17, 2012

Still no response from Johnny boy...

Brighton Sky Blue · May 17, 2012

I take that back-the lazy sod...

"Thanks for the feedback Andy. Your views are entirely in line with my own, however, as Leader of the Council, I have to explore all options that may be available including bringing in new investors or new owners, that does not mean though, that I would ever allow Sisu to be able to use the Ricoh as collateral to be able to borrow against it and then disappear.

Best wishes,

John"

Paxman II · May 17, 2012

dongonzalos: Yes thank you, now that stance makes better sense!

As I said it's not about giving SISU any right of 'ownership' to the stadium. That is the distinguishing factor here.

skybluesteve76 · May 17, 2012

I work for the council so best not get involved! U right behind the idea though. Fair play and good luck.

Paxman II · May 17, 2012

Given that message above then I think the Council are thinking deeply along safe lines here and perhaps alluding to ways of skinning that cat differently so to be able to help the club and move forward to a brighter future.

Well done Andy.

mark82 · May 17, 2012

Paxman II said:
This is the point. I'm not being patronising at all.
I have never said we should give SISU the Ricoh!?

There are more ways than one way to skin a cat I said.

Some on here refuse to hear and want to simply maintain a negative stance. That would not get anyone anywhere in negotiations would it?

There can be a deal with SISU that can procure revenue streams to aid the clubs survival. Those deals can be in many different forms.
Money doesn't even have to change hands. Balloon notes, deadlines, various payback options can be arranged in contracts that are legally binding which may even include 'no ownership rights' of the stadium for SISU. but may give them the right to seek investment in the stadium from other interested parties? That could lead the way for example for Hoffman's band to come back to SISU and talk.

SISU are not simply going to go away holding a £40m debt folks. There are ways around this impasse that can help the club. Perhaps the Council can strike a deal that confirms SISU's departure at a future date once certain conditions are met? So many ways to skin a cat.

I think most on here are saying that. Give them access to revenue streams and/or reduce the rent but do not sell. Think lines may have been crossed a little.

wingy · May 17, 2012

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I take that back-the lazy sod...

"Thanks for the feedback Andy. Your views are entirely in line with my own, however, as Leader of the Council, I have to explore all options that may be available including bringing in new investors or new owners, that does not mean though, that I would ever allow Sisu to be able to use the Ricoh as collateral to be able to borrow against it and then disappear.

Best wishes,

John"

Thats some lunch break he's been on

Brighton Sky Blue · May 17, 2012

Paxman II said:
Given that message above then I think the Council are thinking deeply along safe lines here and perhaps alluding to ways of skinning that cat differently so to be able to help the club and move forward to a brighter future.

Well done Andy.

It's the same response he sent to Cloughie-he would do well to give more than generic responses to people genuinely concerned about the issue he is right in the thick of.

gary_ccfcforever · May 17, 2012

he sent me the same.

Brighton Sky Blue · May 17, 2012

He says he's had around 200 SISU e-mails today; Otis, teek a boo son!

ccfcchris · May 17, 2012

Thanks for the feedback Chris, it is in line with my own views but, as Leader of the Council, I have to explore all options including trying to encourage potential new owners.

Best wishes,

John.

The reply I received.

wingy · May 17, 2012

There we are again "Encourage potential new owners" ,Not reduce rent Not revenue streams,owners for CCFC or ACL or Stadium????:thinking about:

coundonskyblue · May 17, 2012

wingy said:
There we are again "Encourage potential new owners" ,Not reduce rent Not revenue streams,owners for CCFC or ACL or Stadium????:thinking about:

Could he mean encourage new owners by reducing the rent?

Diehard Si · May 17, 2012

This petition is all very well and good, but I don't feel like there is proper understanding of our situation.

Under the new fair play initiative, we can only spend 65% of our turnover on wages.
We are losing lots of money in the chamionship already. We will be losing most of our TV money next season and likely reduced gate receipts.

These are 2 pretty serious points. With our projected turnover for next year being so low, the already depleted and inadeqaute squad is going to have to be trimmed further. The players coming in would be on extremely low wages. We need the extra revenue, not only for profit reasons but to allow a bit more to be spent on wages. If they get 50% of the stadium, they will get ( i assume ) 50% of its revenue. All year round.

SISU can't fund us for much longer really at current rate. FACT.

No-one is ever going to buy a club without a stadium. Sorry, a loss making club with no assets at all.

The way I see it we are backed down an alley at the moment. No way out. We either make this work, pray for a miracle takeover or the club ENDS. Liquidated, gone, doors closed, no more CCFC.

Yes SISU have screwed this club up, but for gods sake. Stop trying to bite off your nose to spite your face. So many of you want to see SISU burn, you forget these wishes would burn CCFC too. I'd happily see SISU break even if it meant we could get rid of them and move on to better things.

Its crunch time. You guys might get what you wish for, it might also end the club. I realise passion and tensions are high. I noticed someone else earlier who seemed to have half a business brain, put up a reply earlier and get attacked for it. But he didn't say anything what wasn't accurate.

Think about it.

coundonskyblue · May 17, 2012

Diehard Si said:
This petition is all very well and good, but I don't feel like there is proper understanding of our situation.

Under the new fair play initiative, we can only spend 65% of our turnover on wages.

We are losing lots of money in the chamionship already. We will be losing most of our TV money next season and likely reduced gate receipts.

These are 2 pretty serious points. With our projected turnover for next year being so low, the already depleted and inadeqaute squad is going to have to be trimmed further. The players coming in would be on extremely low wages. We need the extra revenue, not only for profit reasons but to allow a bit more to be spent on wages. If they get 50% of the stadium, they will get ( i assume ) 50% of its revenue. All year round.

SISU can't fund us for much longer really at current rate. FACT.

No-one is ever going to buy a club without a stadium. Sorry, a loss making club with no assets at all.

The way I see it we are backed down an alley at the moment. No way out. We either make this work, pray for a miracle takeover or the club ENDS. Liquidated, gone, doors closed, no more CCFC.

Yes SISU have screwed this club up, but for gods sake. Stop trying to bite off your nose to spite your face. So many of you want to see SISU burn, you forget these wishes would burn CCFC too. I'd happily see SISU break even if it meant we could get rid of them and move on to better things.

Its crunch time. You guys might get what you wish for, it might also end the club. I realise passion and tensions are high. I noticed someone else earlier who seemed to have half a business brain, put up a reply earlier and get attacked for it. But he didn't say anything what wasn't accurate.

Think about it.

The 65% of turnover rule is based on last seasons turnover (how can anyone accuately predict turnover for the coming season as we don't know what will happen).

In the coming season the club could be losing up to £10m, how will 50% ownership in ACL help that as ACL cannot pay a dividend anyway?

You are right, we are in an alley at the moment with no way out. Unless a takeover happens then the club in its present structure is doomed. Administration or Liquidation is going to happen at some point if Sisu remain in charge so I think it would be better to get that over and done with.

I certainly don't want them taking the Ricoh down with them.

mark82 · May 17, 2012

Diehard Si said:
This petition is all very well and good, but I don't feel like there is proper understanding of our situation.

Under the new fair play initiative, we can only spend 65% of our turnover on wages.

We are losing lots of money in the chamionship already. We will be losing most of our TV money next season and likely reduced gate receipts.

These are 2 pretty serious points. With our projected turnover for next year being so low, the already depleted and inadeqaute squad is going to have to be trimmed further. The players coming in would be on extremely low wages. We need the extra revenue, not only for profit reasons but to allow a bit more to be spent on wages. If they get 50% of the stadium, they will get ( i assume ) 50% of its revenue. All year round.

SISU can't fund us for much longer really at current rate. FACT.

No-one is ever going to buy a club without a stadium. Sorry, a loss making club with no assets at all.

The way I see it we are backed down an alley at the moment. No way out. We either make this work, pray for a miracle takeover or the club ENDS. Liquidated, gone, doors closed, no more CCFC.

Yes SISU have screwed this club up, but for gods sake. Stop trying to bite off your nose to spite your face. So many of you want to see SISU burn, you forget these wishes would burn CCFC too. I'd happily see SISU break even if it meant we could get rid of them and move on to better things.

Its crunch time. You guys might get what you wish for, it might also end the club. I realise passion and tensions are high. I noticed someone else earlier who seemed to have half a business brain, put up a reply earlier and get attacked for it. But he didn't say anything what wasn't accurate.

Think about it.

You are missing the point. What we are asking is they don't give them ownership, rather a rent reduction or access to revenue streams (which the club previously had and sold). Why would you want to give assets to a company who are liable to asset strip and liquidate?

Diehard Si · May 17, 2012

coundonskyblue said:
The 65% of turnover rule is based on last seasons turnover (how can anyone accuately predict turnover for the coming season as we don't know what will happen).

In the coming season the club could be losing up to £10m, how will 50% ownership in ACL help that as ACL cannot pay a dividend anyway?

You are right, we are in an alley at the moment with no way out. Unless a takeover happens then the club in its present structure is doomed. Administration or Liquidation is going to happen at some point if Sisu remain in charge so I think it would be better to get that over and done with.

I certainly don't want them taking the Ricoh down with them.

If the club is going to lose £10m next year, then that over rides everything and you are right.. what is the point? The business is dead.

I cannot believe that figure for a minute though.

I would of thought it could be based on forecast for the year, but either way it would just mean next year we had no money then. Just delays it.

I'm sure the club would get access to the revenue. A dividend can't be paid out, but a management charge could be. CCFC charge ACL a monthly fee, which just happens to be what about 50% of the turnover would be.

mark82 · May 17, 2012

PS - more than one person on here with a business brain, it's just he is the one who you agree with. You make the same mistake as he in assuming that because your opinion differs that others are wrong. Doesn't make you more intelligent. Maybe less.

There are different ways to go about this, we could sell SISU half the stadium, but that won't stop them liquidating nor does it necessarily open up further revenue for them. What it does do is give them assets.

Diehard Si · May 17, 2012

mark82 said:
You are missing the point. What we are asking is they don't give them ownership, rather a rent reduction or access to revenue streams (which the club previously had and sold). Why would you want to give assets to a company who are liable to asset strip and liquidate?

I don't see a rent reduction ever solving the problem. Hell, a complete rent free period wouldn't.

It's the revenue that's important I agree. But I can't see the Council or Higgs changing any contracts to give us access to these revenue streams for nothing. The only real leverage would be the selling of the 50% share that the Higgs hold. If Higgs can get a fair price for it from SISU then great.

I'm fairly sure Higgs would never give it away, they are a charity at the end of the day and that decision wouldn't be in the best interests of them.

The only way out for SISU is to attempt to get the club to a position that the whole Arena idea was supposed to be. A revenue generator for the club.

I'd rather give them one final chance than see the club die. If they do asset strip it, then what have we lost? The Ricoh arena won't go up in a puff of smoke. It's a viable business ( just ). It could be bought.

mark82 · May 17, 2012

Diehard Si said:
I don't see a rent reduction ever solving the problem. Hell, a complete rent free period wouldn't.

It's the revenue that's important I agree. But I can't see the Council or Higgs changing any contracts to give us access to these revenue streams for nothing. The only real leverage would be the selling of the 50% share that the Higgs hold. If Higgs can get a fair price for it from SISU then great.

I'm fairly sure Higgs would never give it away, they are a charity at the end of the day and that decision wouldn't be in the best interests of them.

The only way out for SISU is to attempt to get the club to a position that the whole Arena idea was supposed to be. A revenue generator for the club.

I'd rather give them one final chance than see the club die. If they do asset strip it, then what have we lost? The Ricoh arena won't go up in a puff of smoke. It's a viable business ( just ). It could be bought.

Yes. The arena is one SISU would hold onto (under ARVO as previously discussed on this forum)

Diehard Si · May 17, 2012

mark82 said:
PS - more than one person on here with a business brain, it's just he is the one who you agree with. You make the same mistake as he in assuming that because your opinion differs that others are wrong. Doesn't make you more intelligent. Maybe less.

I don't want to get into a argument over it as I don't have time, and it wouldn't be productive. I offer my point of view as a financial controller of a business about 20 times larger than Ccfc. Feel free to take or leave my comments as you will.

All I want to do is ensure people know what they are doing, and not following as sheep as the consequences could be disastrous.

ccfcway · May 17, 2012

how on earth can we lose 10 million a year ?

Otis · May 17, 2012

ccfcchris said:
Thanks for the feedback Chris, it is in line with my own views but, as Leader of the Council, I have to explore all options including trying to encourage potential new owners.

Best wishes,

John.

The reply I received.

Mine was just slightly different. I got .....

Thanks for the feedback Mr X. Your views are entirely in line with my own, however, as Leader of the Council, I have to explore all options that may be available including bringing in new investors or new owners, that does not mean though, that I would ever allow Sisu to be able to use the Ricoh as collateral to be able to borrow against it and then disappear.

As for your 2nd question, it's a little black off the shoulder number made from silk and the pants are crotchless.

Best wishes,

John

(call me!)

coundonskyblue · May 17, 2012

ccfcway said:
how on earth can we lose 10 million a year ?

I got that figure off cllr mutton's reply to that MEP.

Brighton Sky Blue · May 17, 2012

Otis said:
Mine was just slightly different. I got .....

Thanks for the feedback Mr X. Your views are entirely in line with my own, however, as Leader of the Council, I have to explore all options that may be available including bringing in new investors or new owners, that does not mean though, that I would ever allow Sisu to be able to use the Ricoh as collateral to be able to borrow against it and then disappear.

As for your 2nd question, it's a little black off the shoulder number made from silk and the pants are crotchless.

Best wishes,

John

(call me!)

So jealous

Godiva · May 17, 2012

Diehard Si said:
I don't see a rent reduction ever solving the problem. Hell, a complete rent free period wouldn't.

It's the revenue that's important I agree. But I can't see the Council or Higgs changing any contracts to give us access to these revenue streams for nothing. The only real leverage would be the selling of the 50% share that the Higgs hold. If Higgs can get a fair price for it from SISU then great.

I'm fairly sure Higgs would never give it away, they are a charity at the end of the day and that decision wouldn't be in the best interests of them.

The only way out for SISU is to attempt to get the club to a position that the whole Arena idea was supposed to be. A revenue generator for the club.

I'd rather give them one final chance than see the club die. If they do asset strip it, then what have we lost? The Ricoh arena won't go up in a puff of smoke. It's a viable business ( just ). It could be bought.

I agree on a few points - a rent reduction won't be enough. Access to revenue streams are vital.

But I think with the current situation everything will be considered at the negotiation tables and all contracts and agreements may become subjects for renegotiation.
So it could well be that the best achievable outcome for all parties are a set of complete new contracts where tthe club end up owning 1/3 of the arena.
The clubs stake should be bought at a fair price by the club using new funds from sisu.

This way sisu won't have control over the stadium, but the club will gain access to new revenue streams. Add a rent reduction and break-even should become achieveable soon.

Otis · May 17, 2012

What about just giving them a 1/100th of the stadium.

They can have the two corner flags down the away end.

Tad · May 17, 2012

Otis said:
What about just giving them a 1/100th of the stadium.

They can have the two corner flags down the away end.

They can have the toliet. Because just like them, it's full off ...

JHarding1987 · May 17, 2012

rob9872 said:
Template: 
 
Dear Mutton 
 
I realise you are a low-life wannabe politician who spends more time getting fat at business lunches than actually working and who is not only a waste of taxpayers money, but like much of local government is a complete waste of oxygen, however I was wondering if you could get off your fat lazy arse and without using any brown paper bags of used currency, get involved with the rent arrangements at the Ricoh Arena (the big soul-less bowl on the outskirts of Coventry near the M6). 
 
I'm sure you're aware of a corrupt bunch of fraudsters who have many names and many owners and hide behind the front of a hedge fund called SISU. They are more untrustworthy than a local counciller and stole the club from the fans and owners because nobody else was interested. They are paying a lot of rent after your predecessors and the inept mismanagment of a previous Coventry City regime, struck the worst possible financial deal in the history of business but then it was involving a coke snorting politician and a West Brom fan who didn't care. 
 
Basically what happened was that your council decided that the club hadn't been shafted hard enough and needed a real kick in bollocks whilst it was lying on the floor and pretty much took all of the ground, naming rights revenue, cash from the Tesco sale and all of the revenue streams for a deal equivalent to the £1 Gary Hoffman and his chinese contacts are now trying to buy the club back for. 
 
Anyhow I digress, to this end, SISU (we'll call them that for the sake of consistency) have decided that as they have mismanaged the team on the pitch and now the potential revenue has been slashed, that the ridiculously high rent deal is now unsustainable and need a reduction. 
 
Therefore as one crook to another, please can you resolve between you the possibilty of reducing the rent to market value, but ensuring that SISU NEVER get even the tiniest part of any ownership in the soul-less bowl. 
 
If you could achieve this without increasing the council tax due by the whole of Coventry, then that would be the best scenario, although I believe the residents have still yet to see the benefit of the millions of pounds that the council has stole from the football club, so if you could also enlighten me on that, then I would be most grateful. 
 
Yours sincerely 
 
Mr C.O. Ventry

rob, that is superb. Glad someone else realises that the council have helped put the club where it is. I know that there are people in power at Cov Council who have no interest in the city, there are fucking brummies running it 4 fucks sake making terrible decisions for the city when they haven't so much as walked around the city centre. Finally though, I work in Local Government & work hard. Please don't tar us all with the same brush as that fat c**t.

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