sacking managers (1 Viewer)

Jimmy Hill's Chin · Aug 1, 2012

I always get annoyed when somone defending Thorn makes the point that football clubs which sack their managers don't achieve success. Well, in my view this argument does not stack up as in recent times with the notable exception of Eric Black, we have sacked all our managers due to their poor performance with the resources which they had available. It is a chicken and an egg situation. All of our recent managers have been poor and that is why they all got sacked. Can anyone honestly make a case that Reid, Adams, Dowie, Coleman or Boothroyd would have turned things around and got us promotion if only they had stayed for another season?

dongonzalos · Aug 1, 2012

We must be really unlucky at choosing managers.
How many times have we made the wrong decision in the last 12 years

Grendel · Aug 1, 2012

dongonzalos said:
We must be really unlucky at choosing managers.
How many times have we made the wrong decision in the last 12 years

About the same as every other club in the football league?

Astute · Aug 1, 2012

Jimmy Hill's Chin said:
I always get annoyed when somone defending Thorn makes the point that football clubs which sack their managers don't achieve success. Well, in my view this argument does not stack up as in recent times with the notable exception of Eric Black, we have sacked all our managers due to their poor performance with the resources which they had available. It is a chicken and an egg situation. All of our recent managers have been poor and that is why they all got sacked. Can anyone honestly make a case that Reid, Adams, Dowie, Coleman or Boothroyd would have turned things around and got us promotion if only they had stayed for another season?

At least sacking lots of managers has brought us success......

dongonzalos · Aug 1, 2012

What about two of the most successful in the prem.

Anyway, you must admit if sacking the manager is the answer why can we never employ the right man?

Astute · Aug 1, 2012

dongonzalos said:
What about two of the most successful in the prem.

Anyway, you must admit if sacking the manager is the answer why can we never employ the right man?

Because certain fans nearly always want to sack the manager, and they always seem to be the loudest.

Grendel · Aug 1, 2012

Astute said:
Because certain fans nearly always want to sack the manager, and they always seem to be the loudest.

Hold on, how many really shouted for Dowie, Colememan and Boothroyd's head really?

Skybluefaz · Aug 1, 2012

Jimmy Hill's Chin said:
I always get annoyed when somone defending Thorn makes the point that football clubs which sack their managers don't achieve success. Well, in my view this argument does not stack up as in recent times with the notable exception of Eric Black, we have sacked all our managers due to their poor performance with the resources which they had available. It is a chicken and an egg situation. All of our recent managers have been poor and that is why they all got sacked. Can anyone honestly make a case that Reid, Adams, Dowie, Coleman or Boothroyd would have turned things around and got us promotion if only they had stayed for another season?

Equally you can't say that they wouldn't have been a success given more time.

lordsummerisle · Aug 1, 2012

Grendel said:
Hold on, how many really shouted for Dowie, Colememan and Boothroyd's head really?

Never shouted for Dowie's, nor adam's thought both unfairly treated, couldn't stand Coleman from the off, didn't want Boothroyd, but became indifferent as it went on, King signing divided the fanbase badly.

Could be those who call for the managers head are right though.

junglej13 · Aug 1, 2012

Someone suggested on here recently though in the last 15 years (and possibly beyond) when we've been struggling only twice have we stuck by the manager... and on both occasions we've been relegated.

Grendel · Aug 1, 2012

junglej13 said:
Someone suggested on here recently though in the last 15 years (and possibly beyond) when we've been struggling only twice have we stuck by the manager... and on both occasions we've been relegated.

Strachan and Thorn - correct though Black was not getting relegated when sacked.

dongonzalos · Aug 1, 2012

I know, sometimes in life you have to take the rough with the smooth.

A bloke who saved our season.

Then the owners who never admit anything actually admit they shafted him.

He then gets to make some signings and with a couple more would be in a position where you could genuinely judge him.

And some people want him sacked on the basis of a friendly result.

Some muppets obsess about his physical appearance, can't quite see the relevance of that.

Others talk about the fact he was employed as a scout.
Yep whose job was to identify talented footballers. Previously to that he played at the top level win the fa cup and made a second final. So don't really see the point.

The only relevant argument is his poor record. This argument has large floors due to his performance prior to the hatchet job by the owners.

Surely the anti thorn brigade will want at least half a season out of him. Otherwise if he is sacked after a pre season friendly or after the first two games.

If the new manager comes in and fails, all people will be saying will be way was AT not given 15 to 20 games.

I hope he does well and for the first time in s long long time we have a manager for at least 5 years

Grendel · Aug 1, 2012

dongonzalos said:
I know, sometimes in life you have to take the rough with the smooth.

A bloke who saved our season.

Then the owners who never admit anything actually admit they shafted him.

He then gets to make some signings and with a couple more would be in a position where you could genuinely judge him.

And some people want him sacked on the basis of a friendly result.

Some muppets obsess about his physical appearance, can't quite see the relevance of that.

Others talk about the fact he was employed as a scout.
Yep whose job was to identify talented footballers. Previously to that he played at the top level win the fa cup and made a second final. So don't really see the point.

The inky relevant argument is his poor record. This argument has large floors due to his performance prior to the hatchet job by the owners.

Surely the anti thorn brigade will want at least half a season out of him. Otherwise if he is sacked after a pre season friendly or after the first two games.

If the new manager comes in and fails, all people will be saying will be way was AT not given 15 to 20 games.

I hope he does well and for the first time in s long long time we have a manager for at least 5 years

Sorry Don this is all Guff.

He didnt save our season. We would have survived anyway and he still failed to win 7 of the 10 he was in charge of.
The owners who shafted him? You mean the only owners on the planet that would ever have given him his chance?
I don't want him sacked on a friendly result - I want him sacked as he is damaging the clubs future opportunities
Not obsessed with his appearance but it goes with the territory - Strachan was a ginger twat / gnome etc. when it got bad for him
No scout has successfully become a manager - name one who has
His poor record is because...he is poor!
Half a season! give me a break if we lose to Sheffield and Bury its Grimsby all over again - bye bye Thorn
No one will miss him. Remember Blacks sacking? We beat Palace in the last game of that season and we move on people do
Thorn and 5 years? People do less for manslaughter no thanks.

stupot07 · Aug 1, 2012

junglej13 said:
Someone suggested on here recently though in the last 15 years (and possibly beyond) when we've been struggling only twice have we stuck by the manager... and on both occasions we've been relegated.

But that does not mean that replacing them would have prevented us from being relegated

Grendel · Aug 1, 2012

stupot07 said:
But that does not mean that replacing them would have prevented us from being relegated

And it doesn't mean installing a manager saved us either 2 seasons ago.

dongonzalos · Aug 1, 2012

Ha ha, I was only making reference to you on the results one.
But you did make me chuckle with your description of strachern and the manslaughter comment.
You must know if he gets less than ten games and the new manager fails.

People will be saying, if only AT got a fair crack of the whip once he was finally allowed to sign dome players.

lordsummerisle · Aug 1, 2012

stupot07 said:
But that does not mean that replacing them would have prevented us from being relegated

But by not replacing them we definitely were.

Grendel · Aug 1, 2012

lordsummerisle said:
But by not replacing them we definitely were.

Exactly. It's hardly a case for the defence is it?

stupot07 · Aug 1, 2012

lordsummerisle said:
But by not replacing them we definitely were.

But we would probably have been relegated anyway on both occasions, it cannot be proved either way

johnwillomagic · Aug 1, 2012

:facepalm:Lord Summerslie you beat me to it surely that post from stupot07 must win most pointless post of the yearfor 2013 already. If he is Thorn's defence the poor guy has no hope. Who knows if new manager would have saved us......but sticking with the current oe undoubtedly did not save us last season......although I am sure Dongonzals may find a counter argument to say that he did!!

I have already likened Andy Thonr to Bryan Gunn.....likeable but hapless......they acted early in league 1 got Lambert in ......which of course never works......oh hang on a minute!! :thinking about:

However as we have stuck by him rightly or wrongly he shoud be giventhe first ten league games......we will know by then how he is doing. If it not well he has to go surely!!

dongonzalos · Aug 1, 2012

This doesn't really add up.

So are we really really bad at picking New managers. How many is it since relegation?

Do you thinking sacking managers ever season or two is the right policy.

Do you think inconsistency brings its own set of problems or not

Grendel · Aug 1, 2012

dongonzalos said:
This doesn't really add up.

So are we really really bad at picking New managers. How many is it since relegation?

Do you thinking sacking managers ever season or two is the right policy.

Do you think inconsistency brings its own set of problems or not

We are clearly not good at picking managers but the average shelf life is 18 months anyway. You only keep managers if they show signs that they are bringing the club on. Thorn will be wrecking the club beyond repair if we let him carry on. He is seriously out of his depth.

stupot07 · Aug 1, 2012

johnwillomagic said:
:facepalm:Lord Summerslie you beat me to it surely that post from stupot07 must win most pointless post of the yearfor 2013 already. If he is Thorn's defence the poor guy has no hope. Who knows if new manager would have saved us......but sticking with the current oe undoubtedly did not save us last season......although I am sure Dongonzals may find a counter argument to say that he did!!

I have already likened Andy Thonr to Bryan Gunn.....likeable but hapless......they acted early in league 1 got Lambert in ......which of course never works......oh hang on a minute!! :thinking about:

However as we have stuck by him rightly or wrongly he shoud be giventhe first ten league games......we will know by then how he is doing. If it not well he has to go surely!!

It wasn't a defence of AT. Oh a lambert also had money to spend - he paid fees for 8 players including £500m for Holt. How much have we spent this summer?

dongonzalos · Aug 1, 2012

johnwillomagic said:
:facepalm:Lord Summerslie you beat me to it surely that post from stupot07 must win most pointless post of the yearfor 2013 already. If he is Thorn's defence the poor guy has no hope. Who knows if new manager would have saved us......but sticking with the current oe undoubtedly did not save us last season......although I am sure Dongonzals may find a counter argument to say that he did!!

I have already likened Andy Thonr to Bryan Gunn.....likeable but hapless......they acted early in league 1 got Lambert in ......which of course never works......oh hang on a minute!! :thinking about:

However as we have stuck by him rightly or wrongly he shoud be giventhe first ten league games......we will know by then how he is doing. If it not well he has to go surely!!

Do you consider 10 games maybe a bit short a time.

If he manages to get the two extra signings he still needs. Potentially we may have a starting 11 with 7 or 8 players. Playing together competitively for the first time. Some of whom may never have played in England before.

Imagine if the team lose and draw their first 7 then win their next three.

Most would be demanding the manager out just as the team starts to gel.

I think half a season is fair.

skybluedan87 · Aug 1, 2012

Where is Eric the Black working now? Either that or we need some horrible bastard like Ferguson!

Astute · Aug 1, 2012

Grendel said:
We are clearly not good at picking managers but the average shelf life is 18 months anyway. You only keep managers if they show signs that they are bringing the club on. Thorn will be wrecking the club beyond repair if we let him carry on. He is seriously out of his depth.

So what you are saying is we should get rid of AT and replace him with an experienced manager that has failed after 18 months at each club he has been with?

Grendel · Aug 1, 2012

Astute said:
So what you are saying is we should get rid of AT and replace him with an experienced manager that has failed after 18 months at each club he has been with?

Who knows we may get right what we have in the past got so badly wrong. Propping up a failed regime just because we are worried at finding a new leader is not the way to success either.

Astute · Aug 1, 2012

How about giving AT the same chance as just about all the managers before him and bringing in the players that play in positions where cover is needed and see what he can do, although there was no cash to spend on them.

Grendel · Aug 1, 2012

Astute said:
How about giving AT the same chance as just about all the managers before him and bringing in the players that play in positions where cover is needed and see what he can do, although there was no cash to spend on them.

I am sure whatever anyone says he will get that chance.

Astute · Aug 1, 2012

And so he should.

I will hold my hands up and admit i am wrong if I am. Still think he could be the 1 to take us up.

johnwillomagic · Aug 1, 2012

Norwich granted are far more cash rich than us.....however they got a lot of money for Dean Ashton let's not forget.......we have got nowehere near that in money coming in.....in fact most of ours left for free after eating up large salaries........Westwood, Crainie, Clingan, Eastwood, King.....to name but a few!

I repeat how long was it before Gunn was sacked and Lambert came in and transformed Norwich??? I think ten games is long enough on top of the number of pre-season friendlies we are playing personally.

I still think we'll do all right come the start of the season....bloody hope so anyway!!

Grendel · Aug 1, 2012

johnwillomagic said:
Norwich granted are far more cash rich than us.....however they got a lot of money for Dean Ashton let's not forget.......we have got nowehere near that in money coming in.....in fact most of ours left for free after eating up large salaries........Westwood, Crainie, Clingan, Eastwood, King.....to name but a few!

I repeat how long was it before Gunn was sacked and Lambert came in and transformed Norwich??? I think ten games is long enough on top of the number of pre-season friendlies we are playing personally.

I still think we'll do all right come the start of the season....bloody hope so anyway!!

Gunn was sacked after one game - if we lose 8 - 1 to Bury so will Thorn.

Colonel Mustard · Aug 2, 2012

Astute said:
At least sacking lots of managers has brought us success......

Maybe it would have done had the strategy been properly implemented. Nilsson and Black, for example, were two managers doing good things with the club, but both were unfairly fired. Nothing wrong with chopping-and-changing five or six managers to get to a Black or Nilsson.

Somerset Sky Blue · Aug 2, 2012

£500m for Holt? Lambert DID have a lot of money to spend! I don't think Chelsea, PSG & Man City spent that much combined!

stupot07 said:
It wasn't a defence of AT. Oh a lambert also had money to spend - he paid fees for 8 players including £500m for Holt. How much have we spent this summer?

WillieStanley · Aug 2, 2012

skybluedan87 said:
Where is Eric the Black working now? Either that or we need some horrible bastard like Ferguson!

Had Sir Alex been employed here in a world where he didn't have his reputation, he would've been branded a bully.

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