Sarah Everard (12 Viewers)

shmmeee · Jan 18, 2023

SBT said:
I mean, the app isn’t a bad idea per sé, but at some point the onus for tackling these crimes has to stop falling on the targets and start falling on the perpetrators and those who excuse their actions. It’s the same reason why more stab vests aren’t the solution for knife crime, or metal detectors aren’t the solution to school shootings.

Oh 100%, I’m just not sure what that looks like. You can’t ban penises. There’s always going to be opportunities and there’s always going to be men who want to take advantage of those opportunities. I’m not across the research but is there even a profile of rapists?

The people who commit a lot of crimes tend to have nothing to lose, but the difficulty in prosecuting rape means all kinds of men from all strands of society seem susceptible.

Obviously long term it’s education and respect to reduce actual incidence of rape, but I’d still argue the fear of assault is a significant detriment to women regardless of whether they’re attacked or not and therefore it’s worth tackling. I’m not sure the same is true about other crimes.

shmmeee · Jan 18, 2023

This is interesting, kind of backs up my feeling that it’s a particularly hard crime to target intervention against though:

What Experts Know About Men Who Rape (Published 2017)

Scientists once thought men who commit rape and sexual assault were so diverse that common factors could not be found. But patterns have begun to emerge in the research.

www.nytimes.com

SBT · Jan 18, 2023

shmmeee said:
Oh 100%, I’m just not sure what that looks like. You can’t ban penises. There’s always going to be opportunities and there’s always going to be men who want to take advantage of those opportunities. I’m not across the research but is there even a profile of rapists?

The people who commit a lot of crimes tend to have nothing to lose, but the difficulty in prosecuting rape means all kinds of men from all strands of society seem susceptible.

Obviously long term it’s education and respect to reduce actual incidence of rape, but I’d still argue the fear of assault is a significant detriment to women regardless of whether they’re attacked or not and therefore it’s worth tackling. I’m not sure the same is true about other crimes.

Well clearly not every solution needs to/can be regulatory and I agree that education has a part to play long-term, and not just for schoolkids either. There’s no reason why campaigns about sexual assault shouldn’t be as prominent as, say, drink driving, but here we are.

For me the obvious problem is that the system of reporting and prosecuting sexual assaults is stacked against the victim to a ridiculous degree. I know there are people who are more concerned with the opposite problem, and think it’s false accusations where the bigger problems lie. I think that’s only natural for men (like me!), who can much more easily imagine themselves being on the wrong end of a false accusation than a sexual assault. For me, there’s no point in people getting het up about how disgusting rapists are and how they deserve all these brutal punishments etc, while at the same time excusing a system that makes it ludicrously difficult for them to face justice in the first place.

PVA · Jan 18, 2023

rob9872 said:
I'm sure SBD, PVA, NW & the usual suspects will all be along shortly to ad to the unrelated pile on.

Rob: 'Don't make it about politics'
No one:
Also Rob: 'I bet these people with different political views to me will be here soon for me to argue with!'

shmmeee · Jan 18, 2023

SBT said:
Well clearly not every solution needs to/can be regulatory and I agree that education has a part to play long-term, and not just for schoolkids either. There’s no reason why campaigns about sexual assault shouldn’t be as prominent as, say, drink driving, but here we are.

For me the obvious problem is that the system of reporting and prosecuting sexual assaults is stacked against the victim to a ridiculous degree. I know there are people who are more concerned with the opposite problem, and think it’s false accusations where the bigger problems lie. I think that’s only natural for men (like me!), who can much more easily imagine themselves being on the wrong end of a false accusation than a sexual assault. For me, there’s no point in people getting het up about how disgusting rapists are and how they deserve all these brutal punishments etc, while at the same time excusing a system that makes it ludicrously difficult for them to face justice in the first place.

What would you change?

SBT · Jan 18, 2023

shmmeee said:
What would you change?

There’s tons of stuff, some of it quite technical and definitely beyond my legal expertise! But the charity Rape Crisis has called for things like:

* More funding for counselling and support staff for victims to reach out to
more specialised police officers and units dedicated to sexual assault cases
* More public awareness campaigns
* Changes to cross-examination rules
* Closer reviews of case statistics to spot trends in cases being discontinued
* Ministerial or independent oversight of sexual assault prosecutions
* Improving female rape victims’ access to specialist female officers
* Making it more difficult for things like victims’ sexual histories to be public fair game during trials
* More research into the profiles of victims and perpetrators.

shmmeee · Jan 18, 2023

SBT said:
There’s tons of stuff, some of it quite technical and definitely beyond my legal expertise! But the charity Rape Crisis has called for things like:

* More funding for counselling and support staff for victims to reach out to
more specialised police officers and units dedicated to sexual assault cases
* More public awareness campaigns
* Changes to cross-examination rules
* Closer reviews of case statistics to spot trends in cases being discontinued
* Ministerial or independent oversight of sexual assault prosecutions
* Improving female rape victims’ access to specialist female officers
* Making it more difficult for things like victims’ sexual histories to be public fair game during trials
* More research into the profiles of victims and perpetrators.

I think only two of those come under legal changes the sexual histories (which is totally fair) would like to know more about the cross examination stuff. Have you got a link?

From what I understand a big problem is that most cases don’t get to court, that’s the but im not sure about improving.

Sky Blue Pete · Jan 18, 2023

Marty said:
Businesses are just as bad, I was working with a convicted paedophile for a number of years, and it only came to light when his mugshot was on the telegraph site, once he was convicted for a second time for the same offence.

All those dirty perves should be locked away.

Forever??’mmmmm wonder what might not work about that

SBT · Jan 18, 2023

shmmeee said:
I think only two of those come under legal changes the sexual histories (which is totally fair) would like to know more about the cross examination stuff. Have you got a link?

From what I understand a big problem is that most cases don’t get to court, that’s the but im not sure about improving.

The Decriminalisation of Rape

Read our report on why the justice system is failing victims and survivors of rape – and what major changes are needed in the police and courts system

rapecrisis.org.uk

Sky Blue Pete · Jan 18, 2023

SBT said:
The Decriminalisation of Rape

Read our report on why the justice system is failing victims and survivors of rape – and what major changes are needed in the police and courts system

rapecrisis.org.uk

They make some powerful cases there

stay_up_skyblues · Jan 19, 2023

Two more Met Police nonces, charged following the death of the first. Presumably there was some sort of ring. What the fuck.

Retired Met police officers charged with child sex offences

The charges relate to an investigation into a serving Met chief inspector, who was later found dead.

www.bbc.co.uk

shmmeee · Jan 19, 2023

I really don’t get groups of pedos, or pedo couples, in real life. How do they get to know each other? Can’t rock up to any random and say “fancy fucking some kids” without risking a report to the police at best and a kicking at worst.

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 19, 2023

shmmeee said:
I really don’t get groups of pedos, or pedo couples, in real life. How do they get to know each other? Can’t rock up to any random and say “fancy fucking some kids” without risking a report to the police at best and a kicking at worst.

I knew a chap years ago, got done for dodgy pictures of children. Once we were in the pub (before any of us knew this 'habit'!!) and he asked if I knew about [something unintelligible]. I stared blankly, he repeated it more earnestly, I continued to stare blankly. He then switched from earnest, laughed, and said it was a Mongolian takeaway he'd been to.

Bit odd, I thought, at the timem but thought nothing beyond odd - he was a bit odd himself, after all. With the benefit of hindsight brought upon by his conviction, I now wonder if it was some kind of codeword for a group and that whole conversation takes on a whole different meaning! Sometimes I guess, it's things that make sense when you're in a position to know - eleventy billion, breaking news, or Gray's Gone being rather more harmless and prosaic examples!

Sky Blue Pete · Jan 19, 2023

shmmeee said:
I really don’t get groups of pedos, or pedo couples, in real life. How do they get to know each other? Can’t rock up to any random and say “fancy fucking some kids” without risking a report to the police at best and a kicking at worst.

Dark web

stay_up_skyblues · Jan 19, 2023

Sky Blue Pete said:
Dark web

Or join the Met

rob9872 · Jan 19, 2023

Bound to be masonic too

clint van damme · Jan 19, 2023

Holy fuck

Rape accuser says police officer who investigated case made unwanted sexual advances for a year

'Amy' reported a rape and says the male officer began to make sexual advances and suggested he come see her at night, even while she was at a women's refuge.

news.sky.com

David O'Day · Jan 19, 2023

clint van damme said:
Holy fuck

Rape accuser says police officer who investigated case made unwanted sexual advances for a year

'Amy' reported a rape and says the male officer began to make sexual advances and suggested he come see her at night, even while she was at a women's refuge.

news.sky.com

CPS don't come out of it great either in that story

David O'Day · Jan 21, 2023

Ex-officer Rhett Wilson abused his position for sexual relationships

Rhett Wilson abused his position to start sexual relationships with domestic violence victims.

www.bbc.co.uk

1 or 2 bad eggs

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

SBT · Jan 21, 2023

Wake me up when it’s 50% of officers under investigation

Sky Blue Pete · Jan 24, 2023

Massive issues with prison places and probation under resourcing

These stories will keep happening as we aren’t dealing with the cause but the symptoms

Killamarsh murders: Probation failings over killer Damien Bendall

Officers dealing with a man who murdered a woman and three children made failings "at every stage".

www.bbc.co.uk

Zara Aleena killer wrongly assessed as medium risk by probation

The law graduate's killer could have been recalled to prison before the attack, a report has found.

www.bbc.co.uk

In my prison work I’m told that Raab has overseen a change from 90% of parole decisions being accepted to 90% being refused. The system is completely broken and the consequences are clear for all to see

Raab thinks he’s being tough and that it will avoid cases like the two I’ve linked. Unfortunately without considering the whole justice system in the round the opposite will be the case

Sky Blue Pete · Jan 24, 2023

Sky Blue Pete said:
Massive issues with prison places and probation under resourcing

These stories will keep happening as we aren’t dealing with the cause but the symptoms

Killamarsh murders: Probation failings over killer Damien Bendall

Officers dealing with a man who murdered a woman and three children made failings "at every stage".

www.bbc.co.uk

Zara Aleena killer wrongly assessed as medium risk by probation

The law graduate's killer could have been recalled to prison before the attack, a report has found.

www.bbc.co.uk

In my prison work I’m told that Raab has overseen a change from 90% of parole decisions being accepted to 90% being refused. The system is completely broken and the consequences are clear for all to see

Raab thinks he’s being tough and that it will avoid cases like the two I’ve linked. Unfortunately without considering the whole justice system in the round the opposite will be the case

Sorry the other thing that jumped out was that only 0.5% of 200000 paroled individuals go on to commit serious crime!

That’s 1000 serious crimes - just wow. What does good like?? How can that be avoided

shmmeee · Jan 24, 2023

Sky Blue Pete said:
Sorry the other thing that jumped out was that only 0.5% of 200000 paroled individuals go on to commit serious crime!

That’s 1000 serious crimes - just wow. What does good like?? How can that be avoided

In anything else a 99.5% success rate would be considered a success TBF. Though how many of those are in for serious crimes in the first place?

Sky Blue Pete · Jan 24, 2023

shmmeee said:
In anything else a 99.5% success rate would be considered a success TBF. Though how many of those are in for serious crimes in the first place?

Reading the first story there doesn’t seem to be a criminal history of violent crime but I think that’s what they were saying that the various aspects of his life weren’t brought together.

You need 100% success don’t you?
The issue with rejecting parole decisions is you end up releasing people from cat a and cat b prisons on their release dates without any time to support their reintegration. Ie no address for them to be released to.
Of course you could say keep them locked up but how would that work? We already don’t have enough space there are prisoners serving sentences in police cells currently.

Oh well as everyone else in the process I’ll continue to do my best

shmmeee · Jan 24, 2023

Sky Blue Pete said:
Reading the first story there doesn’t seem to be a criminal history of violent crime but I think that’s what they were saying that the various aspects of his life weren’t brought together.

You need 100% success don’t you?
The issue with rejecting parole decisions is you end up releasing people from cat a and cat b prisons on their release dates without any time to support their reintegration. Ie no address for them to be released to.
Of course you could say keep them locked up but how would that work? We already don’t have enough space there are prisoners serving sentences in police cells currently.

Oh well as everyone else in the process I’ll continue to do my best

100% is impossible in reality.

It all needs more resource like everything else in the country TBF. Not enough space, not enough support outside. Until we’re willing to make the decision to pay for the society we want those are the trade-offs we have to make I guess.

fernandopartridge · Jan 24, 2023

shmmeee said:
I really don’t get groups of pedos, or pedo couples, in real life. How do they get to know each other? Can’t rock up to any random and say “fancy fucking some kids” without risking a report to the police at best and a kicking at worst.

They're usually carrying a packet of sweets and wearing a cheeky smile

Nick · Jan 24, 2023

shmmeee said:
I really don’t get groups of pedos, or pedo couples, in real life. How do they get to know each other? Can’t rock up to any random and say “fancy fucking some kids” without risking a report to the police at best and a kicking at worst.

Standard distancing tactic

rob9872 · Jan 24, 2023

Sky Blue Pete said:
Of course you could say keep them locked up but how would that work? We already don’t have enough space there are prisoners serving sentences in police cells currently.

Build more prisons.

skybluetony176 · Jan 24, 2023

The prison system is just another area that’s had to take up the slack from austerity and specifically cuts to social care. People with mental health issues lost support services and in many cases that has led to offending and prison. That could be anything from people with addiction issues to people with the most severe mental health issues. It’s the hospitals and the prisons that have had to take up the slack.

Building new prisons won’t work either. The prison service is chronically understaffed already. They can’t recruit enough officers, half of those that they do recruit leave in the first 3 years, officers who have been in the job longer are also abandoning in droves, it has a massive sick rate, about a quarter of officers are off at any given time. It’s a shit job and getting worse all the time.

rob9872 · Jan 24, 2023

I'm amazed some have time to post as they're such experts in every profession and know what they're thinking or why it's broken.

Good old Tone who blames the nasty Tory party for everything from global warming to dog shit in the street is now blaming them for criminals behaving badly.

shmmeee · Jan 24, 2023

rob9872 said:
I'm amazed some have time to post as they're such experts in every profession and know what they're thinking or why it's broken.

Good old Tone who blames the nasty Tory party for everything from global warming to dog shit in the street is now blaming them for criminals behaving badly.

Do you think there’s anything a government can do to increase or decrease crime levels?

How are you going to pay for all these new prisons? Sounds Corbynite to me

skybluetony176 · Jan 24, 2023

rob9872 said:
I'm amazed some have time to post as they're such experts in every profession and know what they're thinking or why it's broken.

Good old Tone who blames the nasty Tory party for everything from global warming to dog shit in the street is now blaming them for criminals behaving badly.

SBT · Jan 24, 2023

Deleted member 9744 · Jan 24, 2023

SBT said:

Problem is some people will think he has a point.

clint van damme · Jan 24, 2023

rob9872 said:
I'm amazed some have time to post as they're such experts in every profession and know what they're thinking or why it's broken.

Good old Tone who blames the nasty Tory party for everything from global warming to dog shit in the street is now blaming them for criminals behaving badly.

That's going to happen when you position yourself as 'the party of lawand order'.

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