Sell the Windmill (1 Viewer)

happybigjohn · Apr 30, 2012

I hope Murphy goes. He's been too flappy and has not inspired confidence in the rest of the team

Grendel · Apr 30, 2012

happybigjohn said:
I hope Murphy goes. He's been too flappy and has not inspired confidence in the rest of the team

Don't agree. Think he has been one of our better players this season. Only conceded 7 more than Westwood last season and everyone claims then the whole team was much stronger. We have conceded less than virtually all the teams in the relegation area.

ccfcway · Apr 30, 2012

kduffy said:
Don't agree. Think he has been one of our better players this season. Only conceded 7 more than Westwood last season and everyone claims then the whole team was much stronger. We have conceded less than virtually all the teams in the relegation area.

Interesting stat

So, without Saturday, Murphy conceded only 3 less than westwood

Hmm

We'll_live_and_die · Apr 30, 2012

I think Murph did flap a bit towards the start of the season, but as the months have progressed you could see the coaching from Oggy starting to take effect. It's amazing how much a keeper of his age can improve in such a short space of time.

I wonder if this is why Westy has dropped down the Rankings at Sunderland, he is no longer being coached by Oggy and he may therefore not be as good as when they signed him?

covcity4life · Apr 30, 2012

bad at start,then in good form,looked bad on sat

id keep him,hes been promoted from L1 before after all

PVA · Apr 30, 2012

Absolute rubbish. Has been one of our better players this year and will be more than good enough in League One.

MayallMan · Apr 30, 2012

Iv never been a fan of murphy since the start..for me Dunn showed more promise in the 2 breif games he played at the beginning of the season..+ he looks like tiesto

dongonzalos · Apr 30, 2012

kduffy said:
Don't agree. Think he has been one of our better players this season. Only conceded 7 more than Westwood last season and everyone claims then the whole team was much stronger. We have conceded less than virtually all the teams in the relegation area.

I think Murphy will go. I agree with Duffy he is a good keeper and part of our strong defence. Unfortunately Murphy keogh cranie will go from that defence.
Just hope wood and mcpake stay and stay fit and that Dunn is ready to make the step up.

SkyBlueScottie · Apr 30, 2012

kduffy said:
Don't agree. Think he has been one of our better players this season. Only conceded 7 more than Westwood last season and everyone claims then the whole team was much stronger. We have conceded less than virtually all the teams in the relegation area.

Are those stats correct as off the top of my head Westwood missed a few games last season eg Watford away and we conceded 2.

Grendel · Apr 30, 2012

SkyBlueScottie said:
Are those stats correct as off the top of my head Westwood missed a few games last season eg Watford away and we conceded 2.

No it's the whole season. I haven't checked if he played every game or not but either way the goals conceded column is not hugely different between a highly rated premier player and a guy some think is not good enough for us in league 1. Also until November last year we had turner and wood was more regularly available so it appears to me that Murphy is not an issue. Goals scored is and will be a much greater problem.

Bertola · Apr 30, 2012

Two games I can remember Westwood missing last season were Watford (conceded two) and Milwall (conceded three)

When Murphy hasnt played in the league we havent conceded.

Also if you look at the goals conceded Murphy has made several errors which have ended up costing us points

kg82 · Apr 30, 2012

kduffy said:
No it's the whole season. I haven't checked if he played every game or not but either way the goals conceded column is not hugely different between a highly rated premier player and a guy some think is not good enough for us in league 1. Also until November last year we had turner and wood was more regularly available so it appears to me that Murphy is not an issue. Goals scored is and will be a much greater problem.

Exactly. Murphy is in no way the problem. He's made mistakes but so did Westwood - I remember a howler at Forest last year. We need goals, goals and more goals!

Sisu_Cockroaches · Apr 30, 2012

We have been lucky to have some top class keepers over the years (or maybe these keepers have stood out because of the work they have had to do) but Murphy couldn't lace any of their boots. He is no good in their, he is a scrapper and good shot stopper but thats it. Not good enough for a club like this. Just like the people who are in charge.

SkyBlueScottie · Apr 30, 2012

While I dont dispute that goals are king this thread is about the merits of Murphy, a quick check shows that Murphy started 3 more games than Westwood did so in his final season, so the difference is likely to be larger than the 7 you claimed.

Personally I would move him on, I dont think he likes taking too much responsibility, for instance he rarely takes a cross, he rarely ventures from his line and the amount of times he instructed defenders to kick it to touch rather than taking a backpass was shocking.

Plus you can add in the soft goals he has conceded....

theprince · Apr 30, 2012

He ain't that bad, how many times has he played behind the same defence more than two games running and a poor defence at that.

Bertola · Apr 30, 2012

Personally I wouldnt have played him on Saturday after his "shop window" comment last week

Sub · Apr 30, 2012

Bertola said:
Personally I wouldnt have played him on Saturday after his "shop window" comment last week

i bet SISU loved that comment and demanded he played !!!:facepalm:

Bertola · Apr 30, 2012

Also, what the bloody hell was he appealling for for the first goal on Sat?

It couldnt have been offside as Wills was behind Sharp.

kg82 · Apr 30, 2012

Bertola said:
Personally I wouldnt have played him on Saturday after his "shop window" comment last week

And here is exactly what I talked about in another thread!

This comment wasn't to do with getting noticed by other clubs, it was to do with young players trying to get noticed for next season as Clingan and Keogh were out and will more than likely be off.

kg82 · Apr 30, 2012

Bertola said:
Also, what the bloody hell was he appealling for for the first goal on Sat?

It couldnt have been offside as Wills was behind Sharp.

What's the problem with appealing?! He didn't appeal before the ball hit the back of the net, so what's the problem?!

Osullivan18 · Apr 30, 2012

I don't mind him, but one thing Saturday really irritated me. Goal three or four from the corner. One of there players shot, murphy just looked to the back off the net, didn't dive or try moving there. The shot was blocked, then from the rebound the ball was hit in the same place to which he still just stood there and made no attempt. Other than that decent keeper done ok for us

thechase · Apr 30, 2012

I cant beleive people are blaming Murphy and calling him useless. Im beginning to think most fans wont be happy til Joe Hart is in goal and even then they would prefer Dunn because he did well as a sub! He is a more than adequate league 1 goalkeeper and was decent enough this season.

PVA · Apr 30, 2012

Don't know where this love for Dunn comes from. People seem to think he is amazing based on one overrated save v Derby.

He was horrific against Saints in the cup.

Grendel · Apr 30, 2012

SkyBlueScottie said:
While I dont dispute that goals are king this thread is about the merits of Murphy, a quick check shows that Murphy started 3 more games than Westwood did so in his final season, so the difference is likely to be larger than the 7 you claimed.

Personally I would move him on, I dont think he likes taking too much responsibility, for instance he rarely takes a cross, he rarely ventures from his line and the amount of times he instructed defenders to kick it to touch rather than taking a backpass was shocking.

Plus you can add in the soft goals he has conceded....

Assuming Murphy appeared in the Bury debacle and I assume he started every game this season he conceded 68 goals in 47 games so that is 1.44 goals a game. Westwood in his 2 years here let in 115 in 89 games at 1.29 a game. Over 46 games the variable average is 7 goals.

ccfcway · Apr 30, 2012

Fact is if Murphy was our weak link, we would be top half of championship

We have a, or more problems than him

SkyBlueScottie · Apr 30, 2012

kduffy said:
Don't agree. Think he has been one of our better players this season. Only conceded 7 more than Westwood last season and everyone claims then the whole team was much stronger. We have conceded less than virtually all the teams in the relegation area.

kduffy said:
No it's the whole season. I haven't checked if he played every game or not but either way the goals conceded column is not hugely different between a highly rated premier player and a guy some think is not good enough for us in league 1. Also until November last year we had turner and wood was more regularly available so it appears to me that Murphy is not an issue. Goals scored is and will be a much greater problem.

kduffy said:
Assuming Murphy appeared in the Bury debacle and I assume he started every game this season he conceded 68 goals in 47 games so that is 1.44 goals a game. Westwood in his 2 years here let in 115 in 89 games at 1.29 a game. Over 46 games the variable average is 7 goals.

Lovely, so you are saying the original stat you bashed about here was wildly incorrect and something you used to try and bolster your argument?

Grendel · Apr 30, 2012

SkyBlueScottie said:
Lovely, so you are saying the original stat you bashed about here was wildly incorrect and something you used to try and bolster your argument?

No not wildly inaccurate at all. In fact a truer stat and far more accurate would be to compare each goalkeeper in their first season at the club as yobleu would anticipate improvement once a player got used to the style of play. Westwoods 1.35 per game compared to Murphy's 1.44 a game is very close and negligible over a season.
If you want to compare Westwoods last season the difference averaged over 46 games is 9.8 not 7.3 as previously stated. Given the relative strengths of the squads and the apparant superior ability of Westwood whichever of these you choose it points the the fact that Murphy has been a more than able replacement.

Astute · Apr 30, 2012

Murphy is a decent GK. Would not call him a good GK though. Good enough for the level we are now at though.

My problem with him seems to be that our opponents keep scoring goals where he does not even attempt a save. He stands on both feet watching the ball go in the back of the net. To me this means that his concentration should be better or his reflexes are not as good as they should be. I am a GK myself. You do not decide wether you dive or not. It is instinct. You go for the ball even if there is no chance of getting to it. You don't think about it, you just go for the ball. Was it Baker that had a shot saved going in the top corner in our last game? Good save. Would Murphy have saved it? I don't think so. It was one of them shots he has watched go in.

Most of the games we lost were by 1 goal. Each save made would have been worth at least 1 point. I am not saying it is his fault we went down, but a good GK can be worth a lot of points over a season. Most good teams have a good GK.

Sisu_Cockroaches · Apr 30, 2012

kduffy said:
Assuming Murphy appeared in the Bury debacle and I assume he started every game this season he conceded 68 goals in 47 games so that is 1.44 goals a game. Westwood in his 2 years here let in 115 in 89 games at 1.29 a game. Over 46 games the variable average is 7 goals.

Jesus Christ you have been calculator crunching to fuck. I like it though lol

skybluegod · Apr 30, 2012

what are you on has earned us quite a few points this season for us wihis saves.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Apr 30, 2012

kduffy said:
Assuming Murphy appeared in the Bury debacle and I assume he started every game this season he conceded 68 goals in 47 games so that is 1.44 goals a game. Westwood in his 2 years here let in 115 in 89 games at 1.29 a game. Over 46 games the variable average is 7 goals.

So what you mean is a player like Westwood would have been the difference between survival and relegation this season?

If we concede 7 less goals I would say that is likely to gain us at least 10 more points which would have kept us in the division.

Not a dig at Murphy who I think is a decent championship keeper and should be very good in league 1 but Westwood was far superior. The Palace match always stands out for me where Murphy did two poor parries which allowed Palace to score 2 tap ins, if we had Westwood I think we would have won that game at Palace early season.

Grendel · Apr 30, 2012

CCFC said:
So what you mean is a player like Westwood would have been the difference between survival and relegation this season?

If we concede 7 less goals I would say that is likely to gain us at least 10 more points which would have kept us in the
division.
season.

as 4 were conceded on the last day when already down this is unlikely. Also lasts seasons team was according to some so much better so again that must be factored in.

Brighton Sky Blue · Apr 30, 2012

The problem was quite clearly scoring goals not conceding them-we've missed King far more than we have Westwood.

ccfcway · Apr 30, 2012

brighton sky blue said:
the problem was quite clearly scoring goals not conceding them-we've missed king far more than we have westwood.

b
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g
o

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Apr 30, 2012

kduffy said:
as 4 were conceded on the last day when already down this is unlikely. Also lasts seasons team was according to some so much better so again that must be factored in.

If we are not counting Murphys goals conceded on the last day because there was nothing to play for then 7 goals were conceded last season though when Westwood wasn't playing, so even if we discount the last game Murphy has let in 61 in 45 games
Westwood conceded 51 in about 43 games

So we have discounted the Southampton game where there was nothing to play for and Westwood still conceded 10 goals less (about 8 goals over 46 games average). How many points would 8 goals less conceded be?
Point accepted over the strength of the squad but was our defence that much weaker this year compared to last? Only real loss was Turner who only played a fraction of last years fixtures.
Murphy isn't a problem in the team but he isn't as good as Westwood who could have been the difference between survival and relegation.

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