But he has asked questions. Wasps refused to comment and CCC for the most part hid behind confidentiality. I don't see the same cries of derision when Gilbert gives his view on the matter, which to my mind are skewed pretty much in favour of Lucas and her mates.
Forget the "court of law" bollocks. The rent was too high, way too high. CCFC could not afford it; they SHOULD have negotiated, but they didn't, that is a fuck up by SISU, yes. CCC tried to sue NTFC for pinching their club, yet they have done the same thing and given an out-of-town franchise control of the bowl for 250 years, a quarter of a millenia. Yes, the club may get the other half, but PWKH and Higgs would "prefer" it all went to Wasps. That, in my view is a fuck up from the Council, ACL and the charity.
As Duffer said it is time to forget all the finger pointing and jubilant cheers of "but it's all SISU's fault" (I only have to look at your posts for that kind of thing), that is in the past. All that matters is what happens NOW and what the FUTURE holds for Coventry City Football Club. Nothing else matters.
You can write "it's all down to SISU" a million times on a million different threads but it won't change anything.
To say SISU are 100% to blame is nonsense.
Isn't that what any paper interview does? The CT don't appear to have challenged much of the wasps move - e.g claiming that 28k watched their Heineken cup game at the Ricoh (wrong is was 21k) and they the 28k all spent £214 per person in the local economy for example,
They haven't really explored (Andy turners article aside) what the really impact it will have on us and CRFC.
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OK, put it another way. Lucas was interviewed, asked specific questions and answered them. SISU refused to comment and hid behind confidentiality. There aren't many guarantees in life but I betcha there would have been a meltdown from you and quite a few others on here.
As for the "views on what she wanted". That is true regardless of who is being interviewed by a journalist, isn't it?
I thought it was ACL that threatened NTFC not CCC?
The CT don't appear to have challenged much of the wasps move - e.g claiming that 28k watched their Heineken cup game at the Ricoh (wrong is was 21k) and they the 28k all spent £214 per person in the local economy for example,
They haven't really explored (Andy turners article aside) what the really impact it will have on us and CRFC.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
To say SISU are 100% to blame is nonsense.
You mean the terms the Judge agreed sisu did not have to pay because they weren't solely to blame and that the deal stopped because all parties lost the appetite to a deal?
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Ah yes, I forgot ACL and CCC are totally separate entities, aren't they? :claping hands:
And that comment shows you everything anyone needs to see. Yes they are! How many mistakes have they made over years? Too many to mention. Yet you carry on sticking up and justifying there actions. It's people like you why this club is a mess. You went sixfields which = justifying the move. So don't blame wasp fans who go the Ricoh. Just as bad. And before you come out with the super fan bollocks. For some reason you seem to detest the council like les reid and instead of actually looking at sisu faults you pin the blame on the council.
Cards on the table. What % blame do you put on sisu for this mess?
Finally you've cottoned on to that. Well done.
They have made LOADS of mistakes. No one is saying they haven't. But to say "it is TOTALLY their fault" is nonsense.
And I don't detest the council, I just hold them to account for our downfall too. They have played their part, though clearly you do not and never will agree. Fair enough.
Nobody has said anything about wasps fans going?And that comment shows you everything anyone needs to see. Yes they are! How many mistakes have they made over years? Too many to mention. Yet you carry on sticking up and justifying there actions. It's people like you why this club is a mess. You went sixfields which = justifying the move. So don't blame wasp fans who go the Ricoh. Just as bad. And before you come out with the super fan bollocks. For some reason you seem to detest the council like les reid and instead of actually looking at sisu faults you pin the blame on the council.
Cards on the table. What % blame do you put on sisu for this mess?
Nobody has said anything about wasps fans going?
The old demanding a mathematical equation because you think more than one party can be to blame for something.
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Nice swerve to the question. So come on, what % are sisu to blame? They've messed the fans around too many times and messed the council around. Do you blame anyone for not trusting sisu anymore?
Nobody has said anything about wasps fans going?
The old demanding a mathematical equation because you think more than one party can be to blame for something.
I'm happy to answer this.
I blame SISU 100% for the hugely stupid new stadium stuff, especially and most damagingly offered just after the return to the Ricoh.
I blame Coventry City Council (and the Higgs Trust) 100% for selling ACL to an out of town franchise - especially when it was done just after saying that time was needed to rebuild trust.
I don't hold SISU to a very high standard - by any measure they are appalling owners, and it's clear that where we are right now in terms of owning a share of our stadium and our league position has to fall on their shoulders.
I do however, hold the Council to a higher standard. I expect them to make decisions based on a moral as well as a financial basis, and to me they've failed on both fronts here.
In terms of 'moral' failures, I'd quote this: They've brought in a franchise. They lied about the profitability of ACL. They lied about giving time to build trust. They lied about consulting Coventry RFC prior to the Wasps decision. They completely made stuff up about 28,000 fans and £6m per game into the local economy, it simply never happened!
In terms of financial failures I'll offer this: The council have taken a million off the mortgage already. They've already stepped away from their "tens of thousands of rugby fans" justification. In the future, if the CCFC fall further at the Ricoh, or move away from the City - either of which is now more likely, then that will cost the city more money and prestige than Wasps could possibly bring.
Plenty of blame for both sides here I'd say. I can entirely understand why people would be unwilling to trust SISU, but I'm surprised that anyone would take the Council as honest brokers in all this either, clearly they're not.
If you want a way forward, here's mine: SISU buy the 50% and drop the continued farce of the stadium that no one other than Tim and Joy want. Wasps are actively boycotted by anyone who sees franchising as wrong, but especially by fans of CCFC, and hopefully they either die or move back south. At that point the club try to get the rest of ACL.
If you want a prediction though, it's this: CCFC will not be allowed to buy into ACL. They won't have enough money to build a new stadium, ever. They will stay, at best, a League 1 club with a possible odd foray into the lower reaches of the Championship. At worse, more relegations and another administration beckon. Wasps, other than occasional local derbies and the odd European games, will end up playing in front of crowds no bigger than CCFC in L1, and mostly smaller. They'll bring little to the local economy. If the TV money dries up, or there's an opportunity in London, they'll either go pop or leave overnight. They may just go bust anyway, Wasps isn't exactly a thriving business, and their owner is a chancer just like SISU as far as I can see.
Who will be to blame? See above.
Just intrigued to know as he blames both council and sisu. What the % is. What's so bad about that?
Nobody has said such a thing. Duffer tried to get someone to say it though.
Top post OSB. I agree with just about all of it. But of course worded much better than I could hope to do
And with apologies to those I've insulted, which is probably pretty much everyone - I'll leave it there I think.
I don't think, for all of the press stuff, there's any more mileage in this for me as a fan. The decision is done. The 50% won't come to CCFC, the new stadium won't be built.
I'll quietly hope that for all kinds of different reasons, Wasps go under, or better, move back south.
Also I'll hang on to the thought that we're getting closer to the "bottom of the cycle" every day, and that eventually we'll have new owners. I certainly can't see us going anywhere other than further down with the ones we've got.
I've got to say though, that for all of the enormous harm that SISU have done to the club, for me it's the council that have put the final nail in the coffin. Until they sold to Wasps there was always some hope of a way back - I can't see one now.
You have to keep it simple.
CCFC will always rent from someone.
Whether it's to CCC, ACL, SISU or Wasps we will always rent from someone.
Blame bad management at HR for that but it's not the end.
It's in everybodies interest to negotiate a good detail on the back of a shared stadium.
However, if Sisu continue with this bravado even that chance will go.
I'm not trying to get anyone to say it, but it seems that there's a lot of people inferring it because he had the audacity to offer a different opinion. That's unworthy in my book.
Accusing a journalist of being bent or biased is some special kind of insult. The same goes for anyone accusing Simon Gilbert of being pro-council, it's rubbish. If you're not sure about SG's opinion on the council's decision making process here, ask him, or look back through his postings.
My point here remains, if anyone has got an issue with what Les Reid (or Simon Gilbert) is saying, then challenge it on its merits rather than chucking out lazy, personal insults or insinuations.
A lot of that is fair enough mate - but it's really not in Wasps interest that CCFC do much more than pay the rent.
Wasps and SISU are now in effect in competition for the revenue from ACL - they both say they need 365/24/7 income and not just matchday streams.
However Wasps will have 100% of this, having bought it. Why would they share?
The only reason they'll want the club to thrive is to bring more money into ACL - money that the club say they need too. There's no happy ending here that suits everyone, imho.
Of course why would Wasps want anything but success for CCFC the higher they get the more rent they can charge, and the more money CCFC make in the process so win win as Martin Conn said if you get promoted to the Prem you get a minimum of £125 Million million surely that has to be the aim for sisu could get rid of the club like a shot and made a bag full at the same time.
The problem is that they don't have the mentality or don't want to do it?
I mentioned my reasons for saying that I see Reid as biased. Not one person said anything against any of these points. And there are more I could add. And it all started after he met Joy for the first time.
So to me he knows something that we don't and isn't allowed to say or he has fallen for some bullshit. And I don't have a clue which one it is.
Not sure why Wasps or anyone else would offer CCFC a good deal on rent or matchday incomes if the intention is that in 4 or 5 years CCFC will no longer be at the Ricoh.
Seppala Fisher, Waggott all repeat the mantra that they must own their own stadium and are pressing ahead with building it with a view to being in it 4 or 5 years from now.
There is no sense of partnership being developed here, even in the latest interview Seppala casts doubt on the viability of Wasps and stadium. Even says she doesn't see how two unknowns can work together, that Wasps create a risk to CCFC etc
To stay at the Ricoh and to get a better deal there requires commitment to it, which simply doesn't seem to be there.
Yes its a chicken or egg situation but if they (SISU) want in at some point they will need to be seen to compromise, to work in partnership not as adversaries - not something Seppala seems happy to do
The usual binary crap. The council are 100% to blame that an out of town Rugby team has bought part of the Arena company.Nice swerve to the question. So come on, what % are sisu to blame? They've messed the fans around too many times and messed the council around. Do you blame anyone for not trusting sisu anymore?
You know what really irritates me about the whole saga and our club in particular is
That there is always a reason why not never a reason why.
Always someone else's fault, never an honest taking of responsibility.
Always a fight or reason for time in court, never a partnership and compromise.
Always a downside, never a striving for or emphasis on positives.
Always a working against, never a working with
And above all always lip service but never a real thought followed through for the fans
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