Sheaf and Hamer (1 Viewer)

Sky Blue Pete · Oct 29, 2020

You can already see they are learning the standard

One thing I have noticed though is their decision making when there’s a chance to win the ball. Both of them dive in and their opponent then has a free run on goal. Hamer did it a couple of times against Bournemouth, one of which ended in a goal.

Now sheaf has been much more prudent when to go for the ball and when to stand off over the last 2 games and if both of them can master this art on the edge of our box then they can learn it in midfield areas

9 games in we are really struggling to get a foothold I believe this would make a massive difference to teams walking through us

Next week allowing opposition wide players to go one on one with Giles and McCallum or Pask or dabo

We pretty much say get the cross in and we’ll defend it. We got lucky with marosi palming it out in the last game

gally9 · Oct 29, 2020

You’ve got this wrong mate, Sheaf is getting pelters on Facebook, and they know.
FWIW, i agree.. I think these 2 will be okay.

cc84cov · Oct 29, 2020

we’re still a better side with Kelly in,maybe he will look at playing all 3 together

Magwitch · Oct 29, 2020

cc84cov said:
we’re still a better side with Kelly in,maybe he will look at playing all 3 together

Don’t care what anyone says we don’t lose many with Shipley in the team, how many have we lost this season once he’s gone off ? he might not be Iniesta or Xavi but he does a job.

Brighton Sky Blue · Oct 29, 2020

Magwitch said:
Don’t care what anyone says we don’t lose many with Shipley in the team, how many have we lost this season once he’s gone off ? he might not be Iniesta or Xavi but he does a job.

Had his worst game on Tuesday, possibly brought back a bit too early. I think having Kelly in there with the 2 would be a bit more solid

GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee · Oct 29, 2020

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Had his worst game on Tuesday, possibly brought back a bit too early. I think having Kelly in there with the 2 would be a bit more solid

Despite him being pretty terrible on Tuesday, according to Magwitch if he had continued to be pretty terrible on the pitch, we wouldn't have lost

Yorkshire SB · Oct 29, 2020

Personally don’t think these two are a problem area, and within time will be heralded as a point of strength.
Our team lacks balance, too many chiefs not enough Indians - we’ve got ball playing defenders, midfielders, but not enough people prepared to make that run, stretch the defence, the dirty and hard side of the game.
Sheaf had a tremendous 15/20 against Boro in the second half on Tuesday, and when he lifts his head there’s nothing there. Same for Hamer.

cc84cov · Oct 29, 2020

Yorkshire SB said:
Personally don’t think these two are a problem area, and within time will be heralded as a point of strength.
Our team lacks balance, too many chiefs not enough Indians - we’ve got ball playing defenders, midfielders, but not enough people prepared to make that run, stretch the defence, the dirty and hard side of the game.
Sheaf had a tremendous 15/20 against Boro in the second half on Tuesday, and when he lifts his head there’s nothing there. Same for Hamer.

O’Hare & Walker were the right changes we were all calling for it mid week running into the channels is where we needed them with Hamer & Sheaf putting balls into them areas,we just got caught out just as we were beginning to come into the game,league 1 we probably would of got away with it but up in the champ we will get punished every time.

AOM · Oct 29, 2020

cc84cov said:
O’Hare & Walker were the right changes we were all calling for it mid week running into the channels is where we needed them with Hamer & Sheaf putting balls into them areas,we just got caught out just as we were beginning to come into the game,league 1 we probably would of got away with it but up in the champ we will get punished every time.

Agreed they were the right changes to have made.
Maybe just 10 minutes too late

Liquid Gold · Oct 29, 2020

I think both will turn out to be very good acquisitions. People are pining for Walsh atm but he'd have the same struggles as these two too. Our wing backs are our out balls, Walsh used Dabo non stop last season to release pressure. Our wing backs are currently being pegged back into a back 5 and that gives the 2 DCMs nowhere to play the simple pass, this means that they have to go long for the ACMs or Godden. Our ACMs have been pretty poor so far and Godden isolated so the ball just comes back at us. We need to work out how to get the wing backs further forward or start playing two up top with on of Max or Baka so we can go longer and try and keep it that way while the whole team moves up the pitch.

Skybluefaz · Oct 29, 2020

Liquid Gold said:
I think both will turn out to be very good acquisitions. People are pining for Walsh atm but he's have the same struggles as these two too. Our wing backs are our out balls, Walsh used Dabo non stop last season to release pressure. Our wing backs are currently being pegged back into a back 5 and that gives the 2 DCMs nowhere to play the simple pass, this means that they have to go long for the ACMs or Godden. Our ACMs have been pretty poor so far and Godden isolated so the ball just comes back at us. We need to work out how to get the wing backs further forward or start playing two up top with on of Max or Baka so we can go longer and try and keep it that way while the whole team moves up the pitch.

Agree 100 percent with this

Dimi_Konstantflapalot · Oct 29, 2020

Sky Blue Pete said:
You can already see they are learning the standard

One thing I have noticed though is their decision making when there’s a chance to win the ball. Both of them dive in and their opponent then has a free run on goal. Hamer did it a couple of times against Bournemouth, one of which ended in a goal.

Now sheaf has been much more prudent when to go for the ball and when to stand off over the last 2 games and if both of them can master this art on the edge of our box then they can learn it in midfield areas

9 games in we are really struggling to get a foothold I believe this would make a massive difference to teams walking through us

Next week allowing opposition wide players to go one on one with Giles and McCallum or Pask or dabo

We pretty much say get the cross in and we’ll defend it. We got lucky with marosi palming it out in the last game

Good points, Hamer diving in especially has left us overrun in midfield as seen vs. Bournemouth and Boro

I think both will be good players for us, but would like to see Kelly back in for now. He might not be as progressive or technically gifted on the ball as either of them, but allowing him to sit, control tempo, give simple balls and help us retain possession would be a real benefit in the short term. I think he would help us get more of a foothold in games than a Sheaf/Hamer combo at the moment,

cc84cov · Oct 29, 2020

Liquid Gold said:
I think both will turn out to be very good acquisitions. People are pining for Walsh atm but he's have the same struggles as these two too. Our wing backs are our out balls, Walsh used Dabo non stop last season to release pressure. Our wing backs are currently being pegged back into a back 5 and that gives the 2 DCMs nowhere to play the simple pass, this means that they have to go long for the ACMs or Godden. Our ACMs have been pretty poor so far and Godden isolated so the ball just comes back at us. We need to work out how to get the wing backs further forward or start playing two up top with on of Max or Baka so we can go longer and try and keep it that way while the whole team moves up the pitch.

Good points

Esoterica · Oct 29, 2020

Liquid Gold said:
I think both will turn out to be very good acquisitions. People are pining for Walsh atm but he's have the same struggles as these two too. Our wing backs are our out balls, Walsh used Dabo non stop last season to release pressure. Our wing backs are currently being pegged back into a back 5 and that gives the 2 DCMs nowhere to play the simple pass, this means that they have to go long for the ACMs or Godden. Our ACMs have been pretty poor so far and Godden isolated so the ball just comes back at us. We need to work out how to get the wing backs further forward or start playing two up top with on of Max or Baka so we can go longer and try and keep it that way while the whole team moves up the pitch.

Would love to see the stats for average distance of our attempted progressive passes. My feeling at the time was that the ball was often travelling 25 yards, rather than 10 to 15, because of the lack of options. Everything becomes more difficult then - the ball needs to travel faster to stop it being cut out, the accuracy of the pass reduces, the opposition has that extra second to close down the next option etc.
Shipley and Allen were poor but they were thrown under the bus as much as Godden really. Shipley's strength is running beyond the striker or arriving late to the edge of the box, not having the ball pinged into his feet at pace with few options around him.

covcity4life · Oct 29, 2020

I have noticed improvement in sheaf last few games

Fergusons_Beard · Oct 29, 2020

Sheaf-before giving your opinion just watch Tues and Satdees games back.

Then count the amount of times he gives the ball away when under no pressure at all from opposition.

Then look at how much this puts our team under pressure because we then have to rush back into our defensive shape and start again.

While you count Sheafs errors-do the same for McFadz-he also gives the ball away (albeit under more pressure than Sheaf) far too many times.

2 things-

-our movement and availability is dogshit, most of our players are standing still, this makes any of our players passing options next to zero,
Apart from Godden who sprints into the channels or comes towards the ball. Hence the reason the ball usually gets hoofed towards him.

-Where’s Sheaf’s composure? Hamer and Kelly manage to keep hold of the ball if there’s no pass and use their body to hold off defender, waiting until a pass option appears-rather than force a pass to a player under pressure.

Most of our players forcing passes at the moment and giving the ball away, immediately putting us back under pressure.

We are rushing when in possession, trying too hard and releasing the ball too quickly-has this come from MR or are our players simply getting swept up in the opposition pressing game?

I just hope we can regain some of our composure and patience soon because the times we have looked dangerous this season has been when we have got on the ball and built up play, carving out chances, rather than hitting teams on the break.

No doubting Sheaf’s ability and I am hoping that a slowing of our team tempo would benefit him.

We just having got the pace or power to hit teams on the counter.

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PVA · Oct 29, 2020

Hamer and Sheaf have both shown plenty of promise (with a few errors mixed in), and Kelly has been typically dependable when he's played.

That's definitely not the problem area, the issue is the AM slots. Shipley and Allen so far are looking out of their depth.

SAJ · Oct 29, 2020

cc84cov said:
we’re still a better side with Kelly in,maybe he will look at playing all 3 together

I think that could be a good idea instead of playing a box he could play a diamond. Has the option of using O’Hare, Shipley or Allen there. Could then easily change it if he wants to play two up front.

Frostie · Oct 29, 2020

Fergusons_Beard said:
Sheaf-before giving your opinion just watch Tues and Satdees games back.

Then count the amount of times he gives the ball away when under no pressure at all from opposition.

Then look at how much this puts our team under pressure because we then have to rush back into our defensive shape and start again.

While you count Sheafs errors-do the same for McFadz-he also gives the ball away (albeit under more pressure than Sheaf) far too many times.

2 things-

-our movement and availability is dogshit, most of our players are standing still, this makes any of our players passing options next to zero,
Apart from Godden who sprints into the channels or comes towards the ball. Hence the reason the ball usually gets hoofed towards him.

-Where’s Sheaf’s composure? Hamer and Kelly manage to keep hold of the ball if there’s no pass and use their body to hold off defender, waiting until a pass option appears-rather than force a pass to a player under pressure.

Most of our players forcing passes at the moment and giving the ball away, immediately putting us back under pressure.

We are rushing when in possession, trying too hard and releasing the ball too quickly-has this come from MR or are our players simply getting swept up in the opposition pressing game?

I just hope we can regain some of our composure and patience soon because the times we have looked dangerous this season has been when we have got on the ball and built up play, carving out chances, rather than hitting teams on the break.

No doubting Sheaf’s ability and I am hoping that a slowing of our team tempo would benefit him.

We just having got the pace or power to hit teams on the counter.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Utter poppycock.

Sheaf's pass completion for the Blackburn & Middlesbrough games were 86% & 73% respectively.
Kelly & Hamer who you've touted as doing better... 73% & 59% respectively.

Hamer's passing accuracy is 68% for the season, Sheaf's is 82%.
I don't know where the narrative has come from that Sheaf is poor in possession & Hamer is the Messiah but it's nonsense.

I agree with you on the options in front of them though.
We need to get the wing-backs involved higher up, the supply into the Striker has to be better & the 2 AM's need to do a lot more.

We are a victim of circumstance to a degree; Dabo has missed games so either a CB or a left footer at RWB immediately unbalances us, Sheaf, Kelly & Hamer have never all been available at the same time (until now), Walker missing games + general quality of opponents back to back has been tough.

We might finally be turning the corner on this if Dabo & Walker are fit.

If we're to play a counter attack style in some games then, as much as I like Godden, Walker could do that role better.

cc84cov · Oct 29, 2020

Frostie said:
Utter poppycock.

Sheaf's pass completion for the Blackburn & Middlesbrough games were 86% & 73% respectively.
Kelly & Hamer who you've touted as doing better... 73% & 59% respectively.

Hamer's passing accuracy is 68% for the season, Sheaf's is 82%.
I don't know where the narrative has come from that Sheaf is poor in possession & Hamer is the Messiah but it's nonsense.

I agree with you on the options in front of them though.
We need to get the wing-backs involved higher up, the supply into the Striker has to be better & the 2 AM's need to do a lot more.

We are a victim of circumstance to a degree; Dabo has missed games so either a CB or a left footer at RWB immediately unbalances us, Sheaf, Kelly & Hamer have never all been available at the same time (until now), Walker missing games + general quality of opponents back to back has been tough.

We might finally be turning the corner on this if Dabo & Walker are fit.

If we're to play a counter attack style in some games then, as much as I like Godden, Walker could do that role better.

Interested to who makes the more forward passes out of Hamer and sheaf ok sheaf might have higher pass % but I bet Hamer makes more forward passes trying to get us on the front foot problem is he has 1 option to aim at

SlowerThanPlatt · Oct 29, 2020

cc84cov said:
Interested to who makes the more forward passes out of Hamer and sheaf ok sheaf might have higher pass % but I bet Hamer makes more forward passes trying to get us on the front foot problem is he has 1 option to aim at

What’s your opinion so far on Hamer?

SlowerThanPlatt · Oct 29, 2020

Key passes pg:

Hamer - 2.4
Sheaf 0.5
O’Hare 0.4
Shipley 0.4
Allen 0.3

However Hamer’s are boosted by taking every set piece, I’ve yet to see any evidence he’s creative in open play which is an issue considering that’s where the majority of goals are scored from.

cc84cov · Oct 29, 2020

SlowerThanPlatt said:
What’s your opinion so far on Hamer?

I’m still waiting for your answer in if you would pick Allen Friday mate ? Lol

I like Hamer he’s still settling in but clearly talented,he’s got a good range of passing if we had players running the channels we would get a lot more from him...what’s your early thoughts on him ?

Calista · Oct 29, 2020

Liquid Gold said:
I think both will turn out to be very good acquisitions. People are pining for Walsh atm but he'd have the same struggles as these two too. Our wing backs are our out balls, Walsh used Dabo non stop last season to release pressure. Our wing backs are currently being pegged back into a back 5 and that gives the 2 DCMs nowhere to play the simple pass, this means that they have to go long for the ACMs or Godden. Our ACMs have been pretty poor so far and Godden isolated so the ball just comes back at us. We need to work out how to get the wing backs further forward or start playing two up top with on of Max or Baka so we can go longer and try and keep it that way while the whole team moves up the pitch.

I agree with all this, but Godden isn’t really getting too many long balls from DM – they are mostly being pinged high at him from the keeper and the defence, and he stands very little chance of doing anything with them. In League 1 we could build from the back, because few teams were effective at pressing and we could play around them easily enough. Not so with Championship sides, who (as you’d expect) are better organised, stronger and quicker in rushing us into the long ball. Which wouldn’t be quite so bad if we had a target man.

Like you say, the wing backs are key. I feel Dabo & McCallum/Giles down the sides have the ability to get us more in control, but we have to find a way to bring them into the games on the front foot, and it needs to start happening very soon.

Fergusons_Beard · Oct 29, 2020

Frostie said:
Utter poppycock.

Sheaf's pass completion for the Blackburn & Middlesbrough games were 86% & 73% respectively.
Kelly & Hamer who you've touted as doing better... 73% & 59% respectively.

Hamer's passing accuracy is 68% for the season, Sheaf's is 82%.
I don't know where the narrative has come from that Sheaf is poor in possession & Hamer is the Messiah but it's nonsense.

Nope-I’ve no idea where those stats have come from (who scored .com?)but I literally counted every time he had possession on Tuesday night and he gave the ball away 80% of the time!

Rewatch the game pal and you’ll see!

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Jamesimus · Oct 29, 2020

Fergusons_Beard said:
Nope-I’ve no idea where those stats have come from (who scored .com?)but I literally counted every time he had possession on Tuesday night and he gave the ball away 80% of the time!

Rewatch the game pal and you’ll see!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

He literally didn't.

I think Hamer is a more talented player,(possibly our most talented, the jury's out). But I'll be the first to admit Sheaf had a better game than him on Tuesday.

Neither have an easy job at the moment not knowing whether they are passing to good Shipley, or evil Shipley and an under 12's attacking midfielder.

Esoterica · Oct 29, 2020

Part of the problem with Hamer on Tuesday is that he's had 2 weeks of the management telling him he needs to tone it down on the pitch and not do anything stupid. I thought his performance on Tuesday looked a little withdrawn as a result of that and also sitting a few games out. Seems to be the type of player that needs that aggression in his game - I think he'll need another game or two to recalibrate his boundaries and then he'll be back to his best.

Frostie · Oct 29, 2020

Fergusons_Beard said:
Nope-I’ve no idea where those stats have come from (who scored .com?)but I literally counted every time he had possession on Tuesday night and he gave the ball away 80% of the time!

Rewatch the game pal and you’ll see!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

All the stats sites & sources agree, including those used by pro scouts & the clubs themselves.

The professional statisticians are all wrong though & you know better.

robbiekeane · Oct 29, 2020

Frostie said:
All the stats sites & sources agree, including those used by pro scouts & the clubs themselves.

The professional statisticians are all wrong though & you know better.

Do you think pro scouts and clubs use the websites we’re looking at

Frostie · Oct 29, 2020

robbiekeane said:
Do you think pro scouts and clubs use the websites we’re looking at

Not the readily available free ones - Clubs & pro scouts use Wyscout, Instat or 7Scout mostly; Opta are widely used for stats...

shmmeee · Oct 29, 2020

Really want to see a three of Sheaf Kelly Hamer. I think both Hamer and Sheaf would benefit from playing a bit further up the pitch. Then either wing backs and two forwards or 433 to give them something to aim at. Both can shoot from range and play a great pass.

Brighton Sky Blue · Oct 29, 2020

shmmeee said:
Really want to see a three of Sheaf Kelly Hamer. I think both Hamer and Sheaf would benefit from playing a bit further up the pitch. Then either wing backs and two forwards or 433 to give them something to aim at. Both can shoot from range and play a great pass.

Aye I had that in mind as well, I think the defence is the one area we really need stability so I'd keep the 5 that kept it tight for most of Tuesday and give Walker the runout with Godden

mark_ccfc · Oct 29, 2020

I think at some point giles will get rested and McCallum will play in his favoured position with Dabo back on the right. Worked well last season.

Skybluebeliever · Oct 29, 2020

shmmeee said:
Really want to see a three of Sheaf Kelly Hamer. I think both Hamer and Sheaf would benefit from playing a bit further up the pitch. Then either wing backs and two forwards or 433 to give them something to aim at. Both can shoot from range and play a great pass.

I agree but I would have thought he would have played the three of them together on Tuesday

cc84cov · Oct 29, 2020

mark_ccfc said:
I think at some point giles will get rested and McCallum will play in his favoured position with Dabo back on the right. Worked well last season.

McCallums fans have been quiet past couple of games after a couple of ok ish performances ok the whole teams not been great but a lot now see Giles as one of if not our best outlet

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