Shipley or Bayliss at CM (2 Viewers)

Evo1883 · Apr 14, 2019

who is the better central midfielder ?

Think Shipley is myself

CovBrummie94 · Apr 14, 2019

Impossible to say after just 1 game in the middle for Shipley. Anyone can have a good 90 minutes.

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djr8369 · Apr 14, 2019

Bayliss has better range of passing but Shipley seems to be very effective. Think he’s come on quite a bit this season.

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CCFC72 · Apr 14, 2019

Both very good and offer different attributes. Both will get better and play at a higher standard. Shipley takes less risks and does a hell of a lot of work and will get the odd goal and assist. Bayliss is creative and will take a chance to make an opportunity. Both have had unfair stick from our fans. Bayliss at home, Shipley away.

Tommo1993 · Apr 14, 2019

Gotta say for the most part yesterday, for me, Shipley looked the most composed out of the lot - mopped up a few difficult loose balls. He has far too many harsh critics and I don’t know why. However I’ve no idea which one I’d pick over the other. I think Shipley offers more goals and Bayliss offers more creation so they’d go hand in hand for me.

ps1948 · Apr 14, 2019

Perhaps if Thomas doesn't return next season, we could put Bayliss out on the right side of midfield again - not quite as good for his game, but it would allow Robins the chance to play them both.

slyblue57 · Apr 14, 2019

Bayliss every day of the week. He has attributes Shipley must dream about.
Shipley can do a job in this League but not in the same class.
Pusb

Greggs · Apr 14, 2019

ps1948 said:
Perhaps if Thomas doesn't return next season, we could put Bayliss out on the right side of midfield again - not quite as good for his game, but it would allow Robins the chance to play them both.

Robins likes pace out wide. Bayliss needs developing into a number 10

Grendel · Apr 14, 2019

slyblue57 said:
Bayliss every day of the week. He has attributes Shipley must dream about.
Shipley can do a job in this League but not in the same class.
Pusb

Fair assessment

cc84cov · Apr 14, 2019

Greggs said:
Robins likes pace out wide. Bayliss needs developing into a number 10

Spot on he lacks positional awareness where Shipley knows how to track a man.

SkybluesBenny · Apr 14, 2019

Thought this myself and then thought if we cant get bright on contract next year why not stick bayliss into that position and shipperz in cm with Kelly.
Dont think bayliss as a RM he is wasted out there

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Evo1883 · Apr 14, 2019

For me the extra that Shipley offers is the physicality , tracking back and ball winning .

No doubt bayliss is more naturally gifted , depends what you want from your CM

Evo1883 · Apr 14, 2019

Bayliss would suit the lad from wolves role more (can’t spell his name )

Liquid Gold · Apr 14, 2019

In today’s episode of let’s go overboard after one game...

Evo1883 · Apr 14, 2019

Liquid Gold said:
In today’s episode of let’s go overboard after one game...

I don’t think it’s that , I think we rarely see Shipley play in the middle and every time I’ve seen him there he plays pretty well , naturally people will be comparing players

clint van damme · Apr 14, 2019

SkybluesBenny said:
Thought this myself and then thought if we cant get bright on contract next year why not stick bayliss into that position and shipperz in cm with Kelly.
Dont think bayliss as a RM he is wasted out there

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that's my thinking

Speedies_Chips · Apr 14, 2019

cc84cov said:
Spot on he lacks positional awareness where Shipley knows how to track a man.

Really? Watch Sunderland's first goal again.

Skybluefaz · Apr 14, 2019

Evo1883 said:
For me the extra that Shipley offers is the physicality , tracking back and ball winning .

No doubt bayliss is more naturally gifted , depends what you want from your CM

Shipley is not a ball winner you can count on the fingers of one hand how many tackles he's put in this season

Legia Sky Blue · Apr 14, 2019

Except for his poor tracking back for Sunderland's first goal, Shipley was excellent yesterday. It's only one game though, so deciding he is a better long term option than Bayliss is extremely premature.

Skyblueol · Apr 14, 2019

Skybluefaz said:
Shipley is not a ball winner you can count on the fingers of one hand how many tackles he's put in this season

I really don’t think that’s fair on him. He’s rarley deployed in centre mid so hasn’t had the chance to win the ball back often. Shame he’s often thrusted in when we need a goal which I find bizarre at times but sounds like he was quality yesterday

Esoterica · Apr 14, 2019

Not many midfielders are 'ball winners' in the traditional sense anymore. If you're a defensive midfielder it's all high intensity pressing, getting a toe in and anticipating the 2nd ball. The way to win the ball back has evolved as the game itself has in the last 20 years.

Skybluefaz · Apr 14, 2019

Skyblueol said:
I really don’t think that’s fair on him. He’s rarley deployed in centre mid so hasn’t had the chance to win the ball back often. Shame he’s often thrusted in when we need a goal which I find bizarre at times but sounds like he was quality yesterday

Not saying he wasn't quality yesterday and it was a peach of a strike. Tackling is not in his arsenal though. Interceptions, yes. I've watched this aspect of him closely and you count how many tackles he puts in next time he plays you'll see I'm right

Skybluefaz · Apr 14, 2019

Esoterica said:
Not many midfielders are 'ball winners' in the traditional sense anymore. If you're a defensive midfielder it's all high intensity pressing, getting a toe in and anticipating the 2nd ball. The way to win the ball back has evolved as the game itself has in the last 20 years.

Watch Luke Thomas. He puts tackles in and he's far from a defensive midfielder. Shipley just doesn't have the acceleration to get in quickly or the anticipation to make a read on the ball. Yet... I hope this comes with experience for him

Covstu · Apr 14, 2019

Ineedabacardi

JulianDarbyFTW · Apr 14, 2019

I've always been a fan of Shipley. One of the only players we have who isn't afraid to have a dig at goal, and clearly a valued, versatile squad member.

It's easy to forget that Shipley and Bayliss only became first team players last season. I think we expect far too much of them both. They weren't eased into the team, the way most modern footballers are, but thrown in at the deep end, and both swam rather than sunk. They're developing, learning and ultimately improving. I think both of them will have a big part to play next season, regardless of position.

Calista · Apr 14, 2019

If it’s a 4-2-3-1, the pairing in the middle have to be general-purpose. Loads of stamina, buzzing about, mopping up, simple passing, retaining possession, covering and generally holding the fort so the others can go and attack. Only venturing forward if the game allows it. In that role, it’s Shipley ahead of Bayliss for me. Not saying he’s a better player, just different.

Bayliss loves to turn and run with the ball, and slide passes into the penalty area to make chances. To me he looks uncomfortable when we’re in possession and he’s told to hang back, out of possession he’s not great, and by the end of games he looks shattered. He’s more of a luxury player, and should be further forward, but Bright probably has his position at the moment (rightly so).

Might be different in a 4-4-2 because then the wide players are more like midfielders, and one of the central players can be a bit more of the adventurous type.

Of course, in games where we just keep whacking it over the top from front to back, it’s academic

rob9872 · Apr 14, 2019

I'm a huge Shippers fan but the way Bayliss glides past players tells me he's something special. I think Shippers can be here long term, even possible future captain but Tom will and deserves to play in the Premiership, I just hope it's not too soon and that he's bench warming. The club he selects will have a huge bearing. Madders and Wilson chose well.

steve82 · Apr 15, 2019

It’s a good question but one that’s too early to ask for a longer term approach but both players to me are different types of players. Bayliss is a more natural 10 currently at this point of his development and Shipley is more equipped to go box to box

On yesterday’s performance you have to give Shipley credit to come in from the cold and perform well enough in a big game, let’s hopefully see more on Friday and again at Portsmouth in two very different games.

First showing tho in a central role he looked to compliment Kelly better than Bayliss has done of recent.

Something for MR to think about and develop potentially

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CanadianCCFC · Apr 15, 2019

Shipley much better defensively and doesn’t hide when he’s playing. Bayliss better upside but often goes unnoticed.

Covstu · Apr 15, 2019

Shipley was never suited to the left side, been saying that for a while. Playing well at the moment and I think Bayliss needed a break which has given shippers an opportunity which he is taking. A good problem to have!

Esoterica · Apr 15, 2019

Skybluefaz said:
Watch Luke Thomas. He puts tackles in and he's far from a defensive midfielder. Shipley just doesn't have the acceleration to get in quickly or the anticipation to make a read on the ball. Yet... I hope this comes with experience for him

I do watch him and he does put tackles in. Gets in an awful lot of defensive work for a winger/forward and I love his tenacity and that he's a bit of a gobshite.
He also gets knocks needing physio treatment multiple times every game, granted not all from his own tackles, but his challenge on 75 minutes is a good example. Goes in, gets a knock on the knee cap, needs a couple of mins physio treatment and has to leave the field right after Sunderland have pegged us back to 4-4.
To my eye, he's already lost a yard of pace over the course of this season and they will coach these challenges out of him if he plays at a high enough level because it will be deemed not worth the risk of injury or long term damage in the modern game.
Agree completely that Shipley doesn't have the acceleration or much of a top gear either. Game time in that role and playing alongside someone like Kelly, whose anticipation of danger and positioning are probably his greatest strengths, will help him plenty with compensating for that if he's intelligent enough to learn/absorb.

covcity4life · Apr 15, 2019

CovBrummie94 said:
Impossible to say after just 1 game in the middle for Shipley. Anyone can have a good 90 minutes.

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Its sbt. Have to have a thread like this

I have been calling for bayliss to have a rest for last 4 games so im happy for shipley to have a run in middle

I just never wabt to see him left wing again

superskyblue · Apr 15, 2019

Shipley played very well on Saturday. But he benefitted hugely from the fact that Sunderland played 442 so had less men in midfield. Bright was wreaking havoc (first half) which meant that Shipley and Kelly regularly had the ball with 10 yards of space to play with. Bayliss would have been brilliant too against that system.

fernandopartridge · Apr 15, 2019

cc84cov said:
Spot on he lacks positional awareness where Shipley knows how to track a man.

Apart from Sunderland's first goal obviously.

GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee · Apr 15, 2019

Esoterica said:
I do watch him and he does put tackles in. Gets in an awful lot of defensive work for a winger/forward and I love his tenacity and that he's a bit of a gobshite.
He also gets knocks needing physio treatment multiple times every game, granted not all from his own tackles, but his challenge on 75 minutes is a good example. Goes in, gets a knock on the knee cap, needs a couple of mins physio treatment and has to leave the field right after Sunderland have pegged us back to 4-4.
To my eye, he's already lost a yard of pace over the course of this season and they will coach these challenges out of him if he plays at a high enough level because it will be deemed not worth the risk of injury or long term damage in the modern game.
Agree completely that Shipley doesn't have the acceleration or much of a top gear either. Game time in that role and playing alongside someone like Kelly, whose anticipation of danger and positioning are probably his greatest strengths, will help him plenty with compensating for that if he's intelligent enough to learn/absorb.

The point about Thomas needing treatment is a good one. I can think of five different occasions this season where on an initial reaction his pain level looks like it's a season-ender, only for him to have a touch of the magic sponge and he's back up and running in a few minutes. Not sure if he gets in the wars or just has a low pain-threshold. Either way, tenacious little player and it benefits the side at the moment.

Shipley or Bayliss at CM (2 Viewers)

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