short term thinking expecting long term results (2 Viewers)

skybluetony176 · Mar 2, 2016

It's a recipe for failure

Manager on a two year contract.
Stadium on a two plus two year contract.
Too many loan players.
Too many players on short contracts already thinking about next season.

Is it any surprise our season is faltering? How many in the dressing room are expecting to be here next season? What motivation do they have to see us promoted?

We've made great strides this season on and off the pitch, the training ground, the back room staff, starting the season at home and even the accounts can give you hope. So why the short term thinking on the pitch? Short term thinking can only bring short term results. I fear we're feeling the effects of this. That and something has definitely changed since CA arrived. Can't help but feel he's playing his part in the wheels coming off. It's a gut feeling admittedly but the timings are right.

italiahorse · Mar 2, 2016

It's almost as if they have had the "who will be here next season after promotion" talk already.

The London fans seem happy with CA who met them last week.

http://www.coventrycity-mad.co.uk/ne...50/index.shtml

Never actually told them anything, but told them why he couldn't tell them

malkitccfc · Mar 2, 2016

From TM's time at Boro

Boro have taken just four points from 24 in eight Championship games in 2013 and Mowbray admits his team can’t expect to retain their place in the play-off zone with such a modest return.
“I think we fully know now that we are in a bit of a scrap with teams around us whereas a month ago we were desperately trying to get into the top two and stay there,” he said.

It's the same thing happening here

Terry Gibson's perm · Mar 2, 2016

Good as long as the London supporters are happy, what is the obsession this club has with London supporters club

ccfcway · Mar 2, 2016

Terry Gibson's perm said:
Good as long as the London supporters are happy, what is the obsession this club has with London supporters club

the absolute opposed to our landlords who are a London club with an obsession about engaging with Coventry

Moff · Mar 2, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
It's a recipe for failure

Manager on a two year contract.
Stadium on a two plus two year contract.
Too many loan players.
Too many players on short contracts already thinking about next season.

It is a recipe for failure but we are skint, so cant afford extended contracts for players. I am sure we are not alone in this practice in the lower leagues.

We also wouldnt be able to bring in any of the loan players such as Armstrong, on a permannet deal as they wouldnt join us, and we couldnt afford it, so that is why we and all the other clubs in our league and below, and sometimes the Championship use the loan system, so in that sense i would rather we did than didnt.

Re Mowbrays contract, we will never know if the club or Mowbray himself wanted two years. If it was the club I possibly would have looked at another year, but lets face it they have been burnt in the past when firing and paying off managers such as Pressley. If Mowbray decided he only wanted two years, it is clearly something the club cant affect and that is his personal decision.

Basically whatever we think, we are well and truly f*cked until SISU leave, (and then it might take years to improve) and that doesnt look like happening soon.

dongonzalos · Mar 2, 2016

The timings don't look good for Mr Anderson. It has still never been explained why Mr Waggott left.

However it seems everybody who meets Mr Anderson speaks positively about him.

He actually hasn't come out and said anything too ridiculous

So on that basis you have to give him a chance

Terry Gibson's perm · Mar 2, 2016

He hasn't really come out and said anything, he is another master of using lots of words to say very little very political

Moff · Mar 2, 2016

dongonzalos said:
The timings don't look good for Mr Anderson. It has still never been explained why Mr Waggott left.

However it seems everybody who meets Mr Anderson speaks positively about him.

He actually hasn't come out and said anything too ridiculous

So on that basis you have to give him a chance

I agree, but if the job description to be CEO for the club is not to make ridiculous statements then we arent raising the bar very high are we
(Still he is doing better than his predecessors but then that isnt too difficult)

dongonzalos · Mar 2, 2016

Moff said:
I agree, but if the job description to be CEO for the club is not to make ridiculous statements then we arent raising the bar very high are we
(Still he is doing better than his predecessors but then that isnt too difficult)

Good point

Grendel · Mar 2, 2016

Of course the OP forgets it's long term contracts that have contributed to the financial issues the club have.

Let's start with Pressley - 4 year contract - good or bad thing?

The notion players out of contract by the end of the year wind down is absurd. If anything it will have the opposite effect.

Mowbray has a history of failure when bad runs set in. Player contracts having nothing to do with continuing with tactics that are not working, never addressing the goalkeeping issue, handing contracts to players who have not delivered, changing team formations to suit one individual, allowing one individual to play when he wants to, handing a big important contract to a player with a track record of injuries, falling out with a player whose made a big contribution in the season, never addressing his own issues at never turning teams around when they have slumps.

Still it's long contracts we need. Let's get MAF, Bigiamara, Lamaries tied up for the next 3 years. Just like we did with Kevin Malaga.

Terry Gibson's perm · Mar 2, 2016

dongonzalos said:
The timings don't look good for Mr Anderson. It has still never been explained why Mr Waggott left.

However it seems everybody who meets Mr Anderson speaks positively about him.

He actually hasn't come out and said anything too ridiculous

So on that basis you have to give him a chance

Waggott left because TM took away his ability to play football manager, so I believe he said he wanted to move nearer his family in the north east so has rocked up at Gillingham or was it Gillingham upon Tyne
:thinking about:

fernandopartridge · Mar 2, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
It's a recipe for failure

Manager on a two year contract.
Stadium on a two plus two year contract.
Too many loan players.
Too many players on short contracts already thinking about next season.

Is it any surprise our season is faltering? How many in the dressing room are expecting to be here next season? What motivation do they have to see us promoted?

We've made great strides this season on and off the pitch, the training ground, the back room staff, starting the season at home and even the accounts can give you hope. So why the short term thinking on the pitch? Short term thinking can only bring short term results. I fear we're feeling the effects of this. That and something has definitely changed since CA arrived. Can't help but feel he's playing his part in the wheels coming off. It's a gut feeling admittedly but the timings are right.

Considering our track record of signing players and giving long contracts to managers how is offering shorter contracts a bad thing? How is it manifesting itself in our recent poor run?
What's the stadium got to do with the way the team play? The club signed the extension for the rental deal before Christmas. CA has ushered in a subtle change of tack on whether or not the Ricoh could be a long term answer, I would suggest he thinks it is.
Too many loans? We'd clearly be better off without Armstrong and Murphy. The club knew that Willis, Johnson and Martin would get injured and should have had 3 extra centre backs on the books within FFP limits.

Great post Tony.

skybluetony176 · Mar 2, 2016

Grendel said:
Of course the OP forgets it's long term contracts that have contributed to the financial issues the club have.

Let's start with Pressley - 4 year contract - good or bad thing?

The notion players out of contract by the end of the year wind down is absurd. If anything it will have the opposite effect.

Mowbray has a history of failure when bad runs set in. Player contracts having nothing to do with continuing with tactics that are not working, never addressing the goalkeeping issue, handing contracts to players who have not delivered, changing team formations to suit one individual, allowing one individual to play when he wants to, handing a big important contract to a player with a track record of injuries, falling out with a player whose made a big contribution in the season, never addressing his own issues at never turning teams around when they have slumps.

Still it's long contracts we need. Let's get MAF, Bigiamara, Lamaries tied up for the next 3 years. Just like we did with Kevin Malaga.

It wasn't the length of the contracts that were the issue, it was the size of the wages in the contracts that crippled the club for overrated underachieving players.

Most people thought tying SP into a long contract was a good thing at the time including yourself IIRC.

Most of the players we have on short contracts know they'll walk into another club in league one and earn pretty much the same as they are now. Why push yourself and risk injury ahead of signing your next pay day? Hell FM even signed himself of sick at this point a couple of seasons ago because he already knew what he was doing the next season. Do you seriously believe that we don't have players who are out of contract at the end of the season who don't already have iron's in the fire?

Trust you to pick the type of players that most of us will want to see the back of at the end of the season. There's a certain type of player that will only ever get signed on a 12months or less contract and in some cases we're seeing why.
Let's sign the likes CS and RV on something long term, at least two years. So they know that if we do go up they have a chance of experiencing championship football. Give them an insensitive to get promoted.

Let's raise our game in line with our expectations. Not raise our game on short time thinking.

Nick · Mar 2, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
It wasn't the length of the contracts that were the issue, it was the size of the wages in the contracts that crippled the club for overrated underachieving players.

Most people thought tying SP into a long contract was a good thing at the time including yourself IIRC.

Most of the players we have on short contracts know they'll walk into another club in league one and earn pretty much the same as they are now. Why push yourself and risk injury ahead of signing your next pay day? Hell FM even signed himself of sick at this point a couple of seasons ago because he already knew what he was doing the next season. Do you seriously believe that we don't have players who are out of contract at the end of the season who don't already have iron's in the fire?

Trust you to pick the type of players that most of us will want to see the back of at the end of the season. There's a certain type of player that will only ever get signed on a 12months or less contract and in some cases we're seeing why.
Let's sign the likes CS and RV on something long term, at least two years. So they know that if we do go up they have a chance of experiencing championship football. Give them an insensitive to get promoted.

Let's raise our game in line with our expectations. Not raise our game on short time thinking.

RV did sign for 2 years...

Cs I assume was 1 years because it was a "gamble". I think he will be offered an extension.

Recently we signed Edge, Malaga, Bell, Baker all on long term contracts. Other players have signed extensions.

Is there a coincidence that apart from Baker, none of them we offered big contracts to have gone on to do anything? It doesn't look as if Malaga has even played football since... Edge went to Bury for a bit, Bell went to notts county for a bit then is in Sunday League.

Nick · Mar 2, 2016

And Barton, he had 2 years.
Jennings got 2
Leon Clarke 2.5 years
Webster 2 years
Urquhart 3 years
Slager 18 Months
Chris Dunn 3 Years
O Donavan 3 years
Keogh 3 years
Juke 3 Years
Clingan 3 Years
McIndoe 2 years
Deegan 3.5 years
Wood 3 Years I think
Hussey 3 Years
Cranie 3 years

How many have gone on to bigger and better after us with decent long term careers?

skybluetony176 · Mar 2, 2016

fernandopartridge said:
Considering our track record of signing players and giving long contracts to managers how is offering shorter contracts a bad thing? How is it manifesting itself in our recent poor run?
What's the stadium got to do with the way the team play? The club signed the extension for the rental deal before Christmas. CA has ushered in a subtle change of tack on whether or not the Ricoh could be a long term answer, I would suggest he thinks it is.
Too many loans? We'd clearly be better off without Armstrong and Murphy. The club knew that Willis, Johnson and Martin would get injured and should have had 3 extra centre backs on the books within FFP limits.

Great post Tony.

Let me ask you a simple question. Have you ever worked for a successful company that doesn't have a long term plan?

4waspsting · Mar 2, 2016

How many of this lot do you expect to play championship football never mind premiership, the boat has sailed.

Nick · Mar 2, 2016

Connor Thomas 3 Years
Jack Finch 2 Years

Skyblueweeman · Mar 2, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
It's a recipe for failure

Manager on a two year contract.
Stadium on a two plus two year contract.
Too many loan players.
Too many players on short contracts already thinking about next season.

Is it any surprise our season is faltering? How many in the dressing room are expecting to be here next season? What motivation do they have to see us promoted?

We've made great strides this season on and off the pitch, the training ground, the back room staff, starting the season at home and even the accounts can give you hope. So why the short term thinking on the pitch? Short term thinking can only bring short term results. I fear we're feeling the effects of this. That and something has definitely changed since CA arrived. Can't help but feel he's playing his part in the wheels coming off. It's a gut feeling admittedly but the timings are right.

Agreed....but what's the answer? Until a multi-zillionaire comes in and lavishs his cash on us, we, like the majority of lower league clubs, will be run on such a basis.

fernandopartridge · Mar 2, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
Let me ask you a simple question. Have you ever worked for a successful company that doesn't have a long term plan?

Why do you think there isn't a long term plan? I don't think signing players on longer contracts necessarily implies any sort of long term plan (look at the past 20 years at CCFC). Using loans could be a good tactic of achieving longer term aims, it's a short term tactic to get the club to a higher level, and it's adopted by many other clubs going for promotion, not just CCFC.

Sick Boy · Mar 2, 2016

If we had multiple players on long term deals the same posters would be complaining about that as well.

skybluetony176 · Mar 2, 2016

fernandopartridge said:
Why do you think there isn't a long term plan? I don't think signing players on longer contracts necessarily implies any sort of long term plan (look at the past 20 years at CCFC). Using loans could be a good tactic of achieving longer term aims, it's a short term tactic to get the club to a higher level, and it's adopted by many other clubs going for promotion, not just CCFC.

What long term commitment's do we have with the exception of Ryton. We've all just praised the owners and rightly so for investing more than required in the academy, great stuff. But what's the commitment to Higgs centre? A rolling one year contract last I heard. That's hardly future proofing by any stretch of the imagination, even yours. There's already talk of part of those facilities being changed into an Olympic swimming pool. Let's commit long term, 10 years say. Keep talks of swimming pools and wasps out the way and future proof our academy. That's long term thinking. If we lose our academy status we truly are screwed. We already struggle because the likes of Leicester are sniffing after young talent in the area. A lad two doors down from me is at West Brom, Coventry didn't even come to look at him and I know he's a Cov fan too. We lose our academy status we've got no chance against other midland clubs and our best chance of losing that is by losing the facilities that give us that status.

I'll turn the question back on you now.

What evidence do you see of a long term plan?

Ian1779 · Mar 2, 2016

If we had won last night would we have had all of this??

It couldn't possibly be because our players were dog shit and their players wanted it more last night??

Players were shit - TM has to now motivate these fuckers into producing again, which may include dropping a few players who are not currently on form (Ricketts, Fleck)

Losing to Barnsley is no indication of short term/long term or any other fucking plans for that matter.

chiefdave · Mar 2, 2016

4waspsting said:
How many of this lot do you expect to play championship football never mind premiership, the boat has sailed.

But if a lot of the squad was under contract and got promotion I would have thought if they were surplus to our requirements we could get some money for them. Players that have success behind them would be in demand wouldn't they? Sure there would be L1 clubs who would want them.

fernandopartridge · Mar 2, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
What long term commitment's do we have with the exception of Ryton. We've all just praised the owners and rightly so for investing more than required in the academy, great stuff. But what's the commitment to Higgs centre? A rolling one year contract last I heard. That's hardly future proofing by any stretch of the imagination, even yours. There's already talk of part of those facilities being changed into an Olympic swimming pool. Let's commit long term, 10 years say. Keep talks of swimming pools and wasps out the way and future proof our academy. That's long term thinking. If we lose our academy status we truly are screwed. We already struggle because the likes of Leicester are sniffing after young talent in the area. A lad two doors down from me is at West Brom, Coventry didn't even come to look at him and I know he's a Cov fan too. We lose our academy status we've got no chance against other midland clubs and our best chance of losing that is by losing the facilities that give us that status.

I'll turn the question back on you now.

What evidence do you see of a long term plan?

The club accounts just showed an investment in the academy above the minimum, can't get much more long term than that. Also, CA and Accounts suggest that a proper appraisal of whether to build a new stadium or rent in the long term is being undertaken. Again, can't get much more long term than that.

On the pitch, as stated, short term tactics to achieve longer term aims are the way it is in football.

Grendel · Mar 2, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
It wasn't the length of the contracts that were the issue, it was the size of the wages in the contracts that crippled the club for overrated underachieving players.

Most people thought tying SP into a long contract was a good thing at the time including yourself IIRC.

Most of the players we have on short contracts know they'll walk into another club in league one and earn pretty much the same as they are now. Why push yourself and risk injury ahead of signing your next pay day? Hell FM even signed himself of sick at this point a couple of seasons ago because he already knew what he was doing the next season. Do you seriously believe that we don't have players who are out of contract at the end of the season who don't already have iron's in the fire?

Trust you to pick the type of players that most of us will want to see the back of at the end of the season. There's a certain type of player that will only ever get signed on a 12months or less contract and in some cases we're seeing why.
Let's sign the likes CS and RV on something long term, at least two years. So they know that if we do go up they have a chance of experiencing championship football. Give them an insensitive to get promoted.

Let's raise our game in line with our expectations. Not raise our game on short time thinking.

It's baloney to say players coming to an end of contract don't try.

Who then in the squad did you want on a longer contract?

skybluetony176 · Mar 2, 2016

fernandopartridge said:
The club accounts just showed an investment in the academy above the minimum, can't get much more long term than that. Also, CA and Accounts suggest that a proper appraisal of whether to build a new stadium or rent in the long term is being undertaken. Again, can't get much more long term than that.

On the pitch, as stated, short term tactics to achieve longer term aims are the way it is in football.

But without the Higgs centre the academy status is lost. It's dependent on the facilities at the Higgs. You do understand that don't you? If the academy status is lost the money being paid into the academy will go down. Other teams like Villa, Leicester and West Brom who have academy status higher than ours will find it even easier than they do now to pick up the cream of young players in the midlands.

Yes the club put extra in for the year until May 2015 and like i said that's great but without a commitment to the facilities that allow us the academy status we currently enjoy and that could be lost within any 12 month period. How is Tha a long term commitment?

A proper appraisal of new stadium against renting. Shouldn't this have been done year's ago? Aren't we supposed to be in our new stadium now? Sounds more like locking the door after the horse has bolted.

skybluetony176 · Mar 2, 2016

Grendel said:
It's baloney to say players coming to an end of contract don't try.

Who then in the squad did you want on a longer contract?

Stokes is really the only one who jumps out at me although I'd have like it if we had signed JC until the end of next season and that's my point. If for the large part you're only offering one season or to the end of the season contracts don't be surprised if you're not signing players not worthy of a longer contract. Not rocket science really.

Nick · Mar 2, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
Stokes is really the only one who jumps out at me although I'd have like it if we had signed JC until the end of next season and that's my point. If for the large part you're only offering one season or to the end of the season contracts don't be surprised if you're not signing players not worthy of a longer contract. Not rocket science really.

Who is to say JC wanted to sign here until the end of next season?

I went through and posted a lot of recent players who had more than 1 year contracts. The majority of them weren't worthy of a 1 month contract.

Gazolba · Mar 2, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
It's a recipe for failure

Manager on a two year contract.
Stadium on a two plus two year contract.
Too many loan players.
Too many players on short contracts already thinking about next season.

Is it any surprise our season is faltering? How many in the dressing room are expecting to be here next season? What motivation do they have to see us promoted?

<snip>

And the team that soundly beat us don't even have a manager.

chiefdave · Mar 2, 2016

Grendel said:
It's baloney to say players coming to an end of contract don't try.

If they want to be signed by someone else surely the have to play as well as possible. Same really with the 'head turned' thing. If a player has an offer from a team at a higher level then will be keeping tabs on him. If his form goes to shit the offer could be withdrawn.

Gazolba · Mar 2, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
Let me ask you a simple question. Have you ever worked for a successful company that doesn't have a long term plan?

We do have a long term plan 'the 5-year plan'. A major part of that plan is to be 'self-sufficient'. Most of the points you argue against are contributing to that self-sufficiency. Most of the clubs in our league probably have the same issues to deal with. I'ts how you deal with them that makes the difference.

Chipfat · Mar 2, 2016

The owners have 1 goal and that is on the business side of the club, the football side is a bottomless refill cup that has to be filled every month until they get the books in order. They invested in the academy as they know this is where the next talented player will come from to fund the running cost of the club so not having to make calls into the investors. I would be asking the owners do they have a willingness for progression on the filed and a long term plan to reach that goal.

I honestly think the answer is they don't care about result on the field, they can't afford promotion and will already have next years budget in place for L1 football which will be probably less than this years. They will cut costs again and bring the debt down further which is good for them and the club in the long run. My fear is at what cost to the playing side? and that is where this topic gets mixed up, if we are honest the owners run the football side on a season to season basis with a fair bit of luck thrown in for hope of success. On the Business side no luck is required they have a plan and are getting it right, for what means, i'm not sure time will tell i suppose.

The one thing for sure is Business is sisu's baby the football pitch its nothing more than an anchor, they will keep it positive about the team with words about what they have done, but the actions will be all short term aims.

skybluetony176 · Mar 30, 2016

I come back to this. Too many players last night were hiding for my money, not committing, not finding space, not making space, not pushing themselves physically, just going through the motions seeing the game and season out.

Listening to Clive on CWR he kept talking about the noise from the club talking about getting players on longer contracts, being less dependent on the loan market etc. Basically thinking longer term.

To many players already looking to next season, the next contract and/or going back to their parent club. That's the basis of why our season has come spluttering to a halt Imo.

short term thinking expecting long term results (2 Viewers)

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