Should AT have help? (1 Viewer)

ICHAN · Jan 1, 2012

A few if's here.

If we are going to be taken over should AT stay as manager and someone come in to help him, a more experianced manager who will take on the responsability so to speak and let AT do player scouting and helping out a more experianced manager?

I realise this may make AT feel undermined but this would be for the good of the team and club in the long term and this is not a personal dig at AT this time.

This in the long run could lead to a close working relationship between manager and scout where the scout would know what the manager is looking for regarding style of play as they will have been working together for some time, and so come next year they would have players in who they wanted and ready to start the new season with what they want, as they would be singing of the same hymn sheet so to speak.

I know next season is a way off and this one needs to be negotiated still but AT 's contract is up at the end of the year so would getting someone in early to work along side him help the team and club now and in the future

TheHellion · Jan 1, 2012

An awful lot rests on these takeover rumours being true of course.

I can see only one reason why that particular scenario might not work. Thorn may feel as though his feet are being trodden on. That said, I personally think it is an idea worth looking into IF any takeover goes ahead. I really do believe there is some potential in the way we play, we're just not going about it in the right fashion all the time. Maybe keeping Thorn around might help the dressing room feel more at ease (having that familiar face around) whilst possibly allowing a more experienced manager to take the idea that Thorn has planted and mould it into something better.

It's all speculation, once again. Maybe it could be one move to bring some much needed stability and harmony together in the camp. Maybe we'll never know. But I know it's something I'd like to see happen if the chance should arise.

ICHAN · Jan 2, 2012

That is the problem Hellion, will AT feel undermined and his feet trodden on so to speak.

The thing is surely for the good of the team and club would it not be better to utilise people in their best position and few would argue I am sure that AT is a better scout than manager, so use him to the best of his ability, this is by no means an attack on AT but looking to the future.

We all want players played in their right position so surely this should carry on with the management side of the team?
This all does obviously depend entirely on other outside influances occuring.

Nonleagueherewecome · Jan 2, 2012

Kinda depends on whether you rate Thorn or not, and I do.

TheHellion · Jan 2, 2012

I certainly see sense in your point ICHAN. Like I say, I see some potential in what Thorn is trying to achieve. Of course, having people in the right place should apply across the whole club, from the players to the boardroom level. If that is to be the case, then yes. Thorn should be shuffled across to his old position, and we all know an experienced old warhorse of a manager in this situation would be invaluable. But now Thorn has tasted the managerial chalice, I just wonder will he be so keen to pass the chalice on to another manager? I suppose, personally, in these times when we're hard up for cash, there would be a major plus side to having Thorn as a scout to find some of these cheap gems.

ICHAN · Jan 2, 2012

Truthful answer NLHWC, and no arguement with your point of view, but do you think in the long term he may be better going back to being what he is better at scouting for the club seeing as his contract is up at the end of the year?
This is all hyperthetical obviously as we do not know what is happening with the club, and this is not an AT out thread just opinions on weather he would be better going back to scouting and bringing in a more experianced manager to help him with the rest of this season and so a new manager would be in place should the new owners wish to bring one in ready for the summer and next year.

Disorganised1 · Jan 2, 2012

I think a two man management team is the best idea, but it only works as a partnership, running team affairs between the two, and with each man knowing where his responsibilities lie.

Nonleagueherewecome · Jan 2, 2012

No ICHAN, I rate Thorn as a manager and would love to see him given a chance to do the job without having both hands tied behind his back. He was an absolute breath of fresh air last season; if we'd added to that squad we'd have been play-off contenders under him IMO. Seeing as him and RR are good buddies and Hoffman has already said his ideal is RR as Director Of Football with AT first team manager, there is a very real chance of that happening if the takeover happens. That is why Thorn is "buzzin'" at the moment I reckon.

ICHAN · Jan 2, 2012

Fair comment NLHWC and I respect your opinion of AT.
So if AT stays then we need a good scouting system in place someone AT may hopefully already know and trusts to find the kind of player he would be looking for.
I do differ from your point of view regarding AT but as I said this is not an AT out thread.
Not disbelieving you but where did you get the information regarding Hoffman wants RR as Director of Football?

Also on a side note from this is Hoffman going to have any kind of position at the club or is he still just bringing the people to the table so to say?
Because all I was aware of was he was just introducing these people and not actually anything to do with the takeover, regarding buying into the club, so many things have been said over the past month or so things change it is hard to keep up with at times, I did not think he was having any kind of position at the club, at one stage there was a rumour he was going to be chairman then he wasn't and he was only acting as go between.

AlexJohnson93 · Jan 2, 2012

I think AT could have worked as part of a 2 man team, a la Clough & Taylor, before he got the job. But now he's been chief for a while it would not be fair to bring someone else in. I know if i was in Thorn's shoes i wouldn't be happy.

ccfcdan · Jan 2, 2012

I'm sure Thorn could do a decent job given funds. He would continue with the diamond formation and if we managed to add a couple of quality midfielders to replace bell and baker and prehaps a striker with some pace and movement playing along side Juke we'd have a pretty decent side.

PhilWasn'tBabb · Jan 2, 2012

I think given the circumstances it wouldn't work, AT would feel it to be sign of failure on his part and the new man coming in would have a very difficult job trying to put his idea's into place with AT still around. Some player who are not getting a look in right now would be all for a new manager and the other would side with AT. I think it would become very divisive and lead to split dressing room.

If the new people coming in are as rich and high powered as we are lead to believe in some quarters, I think they will have there own idea's about the manager they want and I'm afraid AT's days might be numbered.

TheParsonsHose · Jan 2, 2012

ICHAN said:
That is the problem Hellion, will AT feel undermined and his feet trodden on so to speak.

The thing is surely for the good of the team and club would it not be better to utilise people in their best position and few would argue I am sure that AT is a better scout than manager, so use him to the best of his ability, this is by no means an attack on AT but looking to the future.

We all want players played in their right position so surely this should carry on with the management side of the team?
This all does obviously depend entirely on other outside influances occuring.

I think ANY manager would feel undermined to be fair. We have no real experience of thorn with money ao difficult to judge on one hand he scouted some of our best players and on another he lacks that managerial experience we may need. The one thing that always worried me about AT were the formation comments and the frank statements of I'm not changing the formation!

blueflint · Jan 2, 2012

i would love to see AT and RR together they may just get the job done :blue::blue::blue:

Tankie · Jan 2, 2012

Good morning Everyone.
In Takeover Situations, more often than not, the new owners like to bring in their own man, as a fresh start, and if this takeover speculation is as Rich as has been touted, then there are still several big name managers out of work, who might enjoy the prospects of working in an attractive set up with money to spend.
This scenario, would be a little hard on Andy Thorn, who has worked hard to raise the standard of the viewing experience at the Ricoh, and with a depleted squad to boot, I know opinion is split regarding his ability to manage,But from my own point of view, I'm enjoying my football now, more than any time since we moved to the Ricoh.
And YES, i know its all about results Ist, and pretty football second, but the question is..Would any other manager, have done better in the circumstances, that AT
has had to operate under.
My personal opinion is that I would like AT to be given a chance to prove himself, with cash to spend, and time, to operate in, if it doesn't work, then Andy will have to move on, but at least he will have been given the chance that I think he deserves.
Regards..Tankie

ICHAN · Jan 2, 2012

Some good responces without it going into another AT in/out thread.

It would be a bitter pill for AT to swallow without a shadow of a doubt, but can we let our feelings for him rule what is best for the club?
I just think if a takeover does take place I feel AT will be ousted as manager as the new owners will more than likely want their own man in charge of team affairs as Tankie says, thats why I was suggesting maybe bring someone in to help him and gently move him back into his scouting role for the club that way he would hopefully not feel so pushed out and used, difficult I know as he is more than likely a very proud man otherwise he would have quit a while ago.

So although yes I have posted he should go and he knew what he was taking on etc I am not a heartless person and do recognise that he has had a hard job to do while in charge but in my opinion he would serve the club better doing his more natural and more talented at job of being our chief scout.

sparky · Jan 2, 2012

I'd like him to carry on and maybe add to his backroom staff to improve things that way eg fitness and tacticly! Thorn knows how to spot a player aswel as having the respect of the players so for him to have someone next to him might confuse the situation! I feel with some funds he would do a good job and depending what players he brings in might change his formation not saying I don't like the diamond I just prefer having wingers but I do relize we haven't got any quik wingers

ICHAN · Jan 2, 2012

Do you think he would have enough time on his hands Sparky to do both jobs effectively though?
If he stays as manager then I would like him to devote his time solely on the team and not have to multi task.
Only one person can do that effectively and he's gone now.:claping hands:

skyblueinBaku · Jan 2, 2012

ICHAN said:
Do you think he would have enough time on his hands Sparky to do both jobs effectively though?
If he stays as manager then I would like him to devote his time solely on the team and not have to multi task.
Only one person can do that effectively and he's gone now.:claping hands:

I assume that the last sentence refers to KD. What did he do effectively (apart from get a suntan)?

Nick · Jan 2, 2012

I would like to think he would go back to being a scout and we would get a proper manager in!

ICHAN · Jan 2, 2012

skyblueindorset said:
I assume that the last sentence refers to KD. What did he do effectively (apart from get a suntan)?

So true SBID got a bit carried away with giving him some credit for doing nothing.

Paxman II · Jan 2, 2012

If a manager needs 'help' then surely you question the managers ability to perform his duties?

Nonleagueherewecome · Jan 2, 2012

Yes, he needs help-as in a chance to actually bring in players. Like every other manager in the division has. I was more excited this preseason about the prospect of a campaign under Thorn than any I can remember-then the board failed to keep to any of their promises.

Not a proper manager, Nick? He did a darn sight better with our squad last season than a supposed "proper manager" like Boothroyd!

And whilst I understand the notion of new owners wanting their own man, it ignores the element that not many takeovers involve two former board members returning, one of whom appointed Thorn, and so happens to be his best mate in football. That changes things ever so slightly, thank God!

Nick · Jan 2, 2012

We have won 2 games and at is back to a messiah!

wingy · Jan 2, 2012

along with bricbats comes the pluadits

Danceswithhorses · Jan 2, 2012

ICHAN said:
Truthful answer NLHWC, and no arguement with your point of view, but do you think in the long term he may be better going back to being what he is better at scouting for the club seeing as his contract is up at the end of the year?

IIRC he is on a rolling one year contract...therefore at all times, he has 1 year left on his contract

Nonleagueherewecome · Jan 2, 2012

I didn't stop rating him, though..you can't accuse me of switching based on recent form, I'm consistent!

ICHAN · Jan 2, 2012

Danceswithhorses said:
IIRC he is on a rolling one year contract...therefore at all times, he has 1 year left on his contract

My mistake DWH my apologises.

Covstar · Jan 2, 2012

Even though we are in this mess right now, I have confidence in him and his style of play that we could get away from this mess if he is given the chance to bring in the type of players he wants. I hope to god this takeover happens soon and gives AT time to get his targets in.

PUSB

Danceswithhorses · Jan 2, 2012

ICHAN said:
My mistake DWH my apologises.

no problem my friend...enjoy your posts...cant say i always agree with them, but definitely always worth a good read

ICHAN · Jan 2, 2012

Danceswithhorses said:
no problem my friend...enjoy your posts...cant say i always agree with them, but definitely always worth a good read

Be bloody boring if you did .
As long as things do not get personal I really do not care who agrees to tell you the truth DWH it's all the personal shit that gets me, views are views and everyones should be treated with the respect they would want back.

Grendel · Jan 2, 2012

Thorn's Away!!!

AT should have help - to the door marked EXIT. We now have the worst away record of all 92 league teams. The "diamond" clearly shines away from the RICOH. No wonder other managers applaud him - home win every time (unless we are at home).
Fans of AT - how many times have we won away with the clueless one in charge. Answers on a postcard (no make it a postage stamp)

BackRoomRummermill · Jan 2, 2012

It has been siad before, AT nice bloke and a Good Scout. If I was him I would have walked by now

Grendel · Jan 2, 2012

BackRoomRummermill said:
It has been siad before, AT nice bloke and a Good Scout. If I was him I would have walked by now

No you wouldn't -- we are the only club stupid enough to keep paying him -- "IF" the takeover happens lets see how long his best buddies - Joe, Ray and Garry put up with him -- a lot less then his enemies SISU is my guess.

wingy · Jan 2, 2012

Going nowhere ,You lot are incredulous ,on the back of form that would bring safety ,five or six good good scoring opporotunities against a team ,with two squads superior to ours ,things are getting better not worse.:slap:

Should AT have help? (1 Viewer)

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