SISU - an improvement? (13 Viewers)

rob9872 · Apr 11, 2018

We all have our own views on SISU and I'd much rather not have them here as they are toxic. They've ruined an already declining club even further and some issues probably cant be fixed until they leave ... however ...

... does anyone else think they've turned a bit of corner? Is the damage irreparable or with time and positivity on the pitch do you think it conceivable that without any billionaire Russian on the horizon, we could work better with them?

I think they believed it could be made profitable by asset stripping as hedge funds do with business, but finally the penny might have dropped in terms of investment to halt the decline and we're now seeing more sensible offers (eg the recent £45/£75 tickets) to attract people back when the club need us most.

I'd like to think it's not result orientated and that we fans are considered customers who should be looked after, but is there any longevity in their plan or is it short term considered purely for cashing in? Perhaps they've realised that more fans helps the team and promotions = an upturn in revenue? Is it just the current personnel is better than at previous times or savvy business decisions? I wonder if the massive drop in revenue to L2 was not planned for and now accept they needed to address.

I even like that we have to use our academy kids perhaps before they're completely ready and more forgiving of them because of that (unlike the dickhead behind me on Saturday constantly abusing Shippers). I hope it's a change and things are quieter when we're doing well as most of us just want to see the team win, but if we don't go up and we lose some of that showcased potential, then what do you think will happen next season?

Nick · Apr 11, 2018

Same as before, I think that's down to people like David Boddy rather than SISU as in Joy / Dermot so not sure people like Joy can get credit if people like Boddy / Tynan Scope arrange things like the evening with Kevin Keegan type things and come up with ticket offers.

It's an improvement of people within rather than with SISU.

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 11, 2018

I don't even know how the OP is a question.

They're still utterly useless, inept, and out for themselves rather than the club. Always have been, always will be.

italiahorse · Apr 11, 2018

Not SISU. Long term effect from their involvement has repercussions for many years to come.
CCFC management may have improved though.
Robins in particular seems to be getting the team to perform (at times) above their collective ability.

Captain Dart · Apr 11, 2018

Its only taken them nearly 10 years & 2 relegations before they show some sign of improvement. Fabulous.

Colin Steins Smile · Apr 11, 2018

Some of the credit needs to go to Mark Robins for securing players on longer term contracts, developing a scouting structure [although limited] and adding stability where there was none! Additionally, Tynan seems to work very hard behind the scenes trying to generate interest and new revenue streams. I don't think recent developments have anything to do with the owners strategic vision......more some decent staff!

ccfctommy · Apr 11, 2018

We have decent people at the club, thats for sure. But the fact is they want you to buy a season ticket without anyone knowing what league we are in. Lack of respect for the fans.

Also, they loan us money each season, fir which they charge interest on. And then there is the yearly 'where will we be playing next year' saga.

So no.

Nick · Apr 11, 2018

ccfctommy said:
We have decent people at the club, thats for sure. But the fact is they want you to buy a season ticket without anyone knowing what league we are in. Lack of respect for the fans.

Also, they loan us money each season, fir which they charge interest on. And then there is the yearly 'where will we be playing next year' saga.

So no.

I think the buy a season ticket thing isn't really a lack of respect, most clubs are in the same position.

That also won't be SISU, that will be people within the club.

Ricketts · Apr 11, 2018

I said the same last year, when they brought in MR and backed him a bit.

If they had been new owners at that point everyone wouldve been saying the future is rosy.

I do think they have learnt a lot.

oucho · Apr 11, 2018

I do think that they are due credit for continuing to fund the academy. I have it on good authority that Joy views the academy as fundamental to CCFC's future and that Maddison was her favourite player; now this looks like it'll pay off and hopefully feedback into a more competitive squad budget for the future. If so, then fair play to them on that score. We're getting, or starting to see, the benefits in the form of Bayliss, Ponti, and so on, plus whatever fees were got/get for Harries, Thomas etc.

I also think it was never really acknowledged that they'd swallowed a lot of pride to go back to the Ricoh in 2014 - yes, they put themselves in that situation themselves, nobody made them say silly things like "over my dead body" or flounce out in the first place, but to return to Cov rather than stick it out in Northampton for years, which they could have tried, deserves a bit of kudos, to be fair to them. As does bringing back MR, being the bigger person on that score after he left originally (for which SISU, despite what you heard at the time, were not responsible).

That's all the good stuff about them that I can think of, for now.....oh and they've stopped piping up about the ludicrous pretence of a new stadium...

Londonccfcfan · Apr 11, 2018

rob9872 said:
We all have our own views on SISU and I'd much rather not have them here as they are toxic. They've ruined an already declining club even further and some issues probably cant be fixed until they leave ... however ...

... does anyone else think they've turned a bit of corner? Is the damage irreparable or with time and positivity on the pitch do you think it conceivable that without any billionaire Russian on the horizon, we could work better with them?

I think they believed it could be made profitable by asset stripping as hedge funds do with business, but finally the penny might have dropped in terms of investment to halt the decline and we're now seeing more sensible offers (eg the recent £45/£75 tickets) to attract people back when the club need us most.

I'd like to think it's not result orientated and that we fans are considered customers who should be looked after, but is there any longevity in their plan or is it short term considered purely for cashing in? Perhaps they've realised that more fans helps the team and promotions = an upturn in revenue? Is it just the current personnel is better than at previous times or savvy business decisions? I wonder if the massive drop in revenue to L2 was not planned for and now accept they needed to address.

I even like that we have to use our academy kids perhaps before they're completely ready and more forgiving of them because of that (unlike the dickhead behind me on Saturday constantly abusing Shippers). I hope it's a change and things are quieter when we're doing well as most of us just want to see the team win, but if we don't go up and we lose some of that showcased potential, then what do you think will happen next season?

Good brave post.

In short we all would like to think so.
Less overly reliant on loans like previous sessons is certainly an improvement (medium term) loans don't work unless as only 1 in 50 turn out to be gem like Adam Armstrong.

Transfer policy who ever it is. Is ultimately paid for Sisu.

Doeasnt help when half our fans don't turn up to home matches.

If we win promotion this year. It will still go down as one of our best periods in our history with 2 visits through Wembley finals. Even though it's from a shitty level.

Honestly yes I think it has improved. Been pleasantly surprised with the business done last year. And no fire sales.

Nick · Apr 11, 2018

Is the transfer policy paid for by SISU though? I know they have been putting bits in to cover the shortfall but essentially the transfer policy is down to the income of the club and then how people within the club manage it.

Even if we do get promoted, it's not down to SISU.

Londonccfcfan · Apr 11, 2018

Nick said:
Is the transfer policy paid for by SISU though? I know they have been putting bits in to cover the shortfall but essentially the transfer policy is down to the income of the club and then how people within the club manage it.

Even if we do get promoted, it's not down to SISU.

Fisher controls everything.

Boddy is literally a no boddy.

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 11, 2018

oucho said:
I also think it was never really acknowledged that they'd swallowed a lot of pride to go back to the Ricoh in 2014 - yes, they put themselves in that situation themselves, nobody made them say silly things like "over my dead body" or flounce out in the first place, but to return to Cov rather than stick it out in Northampton for years, which they could have tried, deserves a bit of kudos, to be fair to them. As does bringing back MR, being the bigger person on that score after he left originally (for which SISU, despite what you heard at the time, were not responsible).

They only did that because Wasps were coming, it wasn't anything to do with swallowing pride.

Esoterica · Apr 11, 2018

See you all in 20 pages!

clint van damme · Apr 11, 2018

there have undoubtedly been some small improvements but overall they are still very poor owners.
They would need to be seen to be executing a long term, viable plan for the club for me to give them any real credit, I won't hold my breath on that, but I am pleased that we now seem to be recruiting longer term and for all the misgivings we had when he came Boddy seems to be a decent appointment.

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 11, 2018

Nick said:
Is the transfer policy paid for by SISU though? I know they have been putting bits in to cover the shortfall but essentially the transfer policy is down to the income of the club and then how people within the club manage it.

Even if we do get promoted, it's not down to SISU.

This is all nonsense (not your post, the thread!). The football club's been cast adrift to flounder however it can. Ever since Fisher and Waggott came to the club, on a purely football level, the decisions have generally been... not bad, but it's inescapable that the direction comes from the owners, and the direction causes and creates a culture of division, short-termism, and general poverty of ideas and cash. We're no longer a club, and more a corporate entity that's told to make its own way while the owners try whatever they will to make money... for them.

You're quite right. If we get promoted it's despite our owners, not because of them. It's because of our owners we're down among the dead men in the first place, however!

If we end up with our first top six finish in 50 years and a Wembley Cup win, does that make our owners the best we've ever had?

Londonccfcfan · Apr 11, 2018

Esoterica said:
See you all in 20 pages!

Lol just 20!?

rob9872 · Apr 11, 2018

Londonccfcfan said:
Good brave post.

In short we all would like to think so.
Less overly reliant on loans like previous sessons is certainly an improvement (medium term) loans don't work unless as only 1 in 50 turn out to be gem like Adam Armstrong.

Transfer policy who ever it is. Is ultimately paid for Sisu.

Doeasnt help when half our fans don't turn up to home matches.

If we win promotion this year. It will still go down as one of our best periods in our history with 2 visits through Wembley finals. Even though it's from a shitty level.

Honestly yes I think it has improved. Been pleasantly surprised with the business done last year. And no fire sales.

Thanks. I knew I was in danger of getting shot down but I think they could easily have caved in or sold to others with no funds to invest. I'm not suggesting they deserve massive kudos or credit, but simply if they leave the academy alone, continue to make and support good appointments and we get a relative amount of success on the pitch, then it's pretty much all we want. We can't control the other stuff, so futile trying any longer and need to declare a truce (even under mutual disdain) and get people back to the games.

chiefdave · Apr 11, 2018

Think its more a sign that what Fisher said a while back was correct. SISU aren't involved in the day to day and the club is basically left to run itself. At the moment by Boddy, who despite the scare stories when he came in seems to be doing a decent job.

If we get promoted it won't be down to SISU.

As for the damage being irreparable I think if, by some miracle, we got back in to the Championship / PL and had a stadium there would be virtually no complaints but there's less than zero chance of that happening.

ccfctommy · Apr 11, 2018

Nick said:
I think the buy a season ticket thing isn't really a lack of respect, most clubs are in the same position.

That also won't be SISU, that will be people within the club.

Like Fisher, who is a director of Sisu...

oldskyblue58 · Apr 11, 2018

In a word no

tempted to leave as that....... but I am curious to know what it is thought that they are doing better? They don't talk or communicate, they let Otium do its own thing within the budget it has based on them not having to fund it, they do as a final resort top the cashflow up but only because it is not in their interest to see the company go in to administration again, they are actually putting in less money than they used to, they have taken some of the loans back, the club is still losing money.............. but the academy is still there (with no home as yet) ............ and the club is still living from season to season with no home ground medium or long term, and therefore no obvious plan medium or long term. As yet the club has achieved nothing this season, and I am not surprised JS likes Maddison if he gets sold that could take the pressure off the owners, even allow the repayment of some of the massive unsupported debt Otium has

Just because they say nothing doesn't mean anything has changed....... just because the team succeeds on the pitch doesn't mean the owners have changed in attitude, or objectives. Largely, the management of Otium have been allowed to get on with it so long as they stick within cash flow budget...... because they have been made to do that and fend for themselves it has encouraged the more creative thoughts of Robins & Boddy

In this case silence whilst the team has a chance of success is by far the best policy for the owners..... however anyone thinking the owners attitude to business has changed is misguided...... CCFC is just business to SISU

oldskyblue58 · Apr 11, 2018

ccfctommy said:
Like Fisher, who is a director of Sisu...

he isn't

Londonccfcfan · Apr 11, 2018

Deleted member 5849 said:
This is all nonsense (not your post, the thread!). The football club's been cast adrift to flounder however it can. Ever since Fisher and Waggott came to the club, on a purely football level, the decisions have generally been... not bad, but it's inescapable that the direction comes from the owners, and the direction causes and creates a culture of division, short-termism, and general poverty of ideas and cash. We're no longer a club, and more a corporate entity that's told to make its own way while the owners try whatever they will to make money... for them.

You're quite right. If we get promoted it's despite our owners, not because of them. It's because of our owners we're down among the dead men in the first place, however!

If we end up with our first top six finish in 50 years and a Wembley Cup win, does that make our owners the best we've ever had?

We all want SISU out!

Speaking for myself and my boy (who doesn't understand it) it's only fair we concentrate on what we see on the pitch.

Like everyone else the we only think of SISU when we lose.

Londonccfcfan · Apr 11, 2018

chiefdave said:
Think its more a sign that what Fisher said a while back was correct. SISU aren't involved in the day to day and the club is basically left to run itself. At the moment by Boddy, who despite the scare stories when he came in seems to be doing a decent job.

If we get promoted it won't be down to SISU.

As for the damage being irreparable I think if, by some miracle, we got back in to the Championship / PL and had a stadium there would be virtually no complaints but there's less than zero chance of that happening.

Who employed Robins?
Who employed Boddy?

Esoterica · Apr 11, 2018

rob9872 said:
Thanks. I knew I was in danger of getting shot down but I think they could easily have caved in or sold to others with no funds to invest. I'm not suggesting they deserve massive kudos or credit, but simply if they leave the academy alone, continue to make and support good appointments and we get a relative amount of success on the pitch, then it's pretty much all we want. We can't control the other stuff, so futile trying any longer and need to declare a truce (even under mutual disdain) and get people back to the games.

Because we've been downsized so much that it's almost impossible to not achieve relative success. It's the equivalent of drowning in the bath and then thinking you've learned to swim when in reality all the water has drained out.

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 11, 2018

Esoterica said:
Because we've been downsized so much that it's almost impossible to not achieve relative success.

Don't worry, we'll find a way!

rob9872 · Apr 11, 2018

chiefdave said:
Think its more a sign that what Fisher said a while back was correct. SISU aren't involved in the day to day and the club is basically left to run itself. At the moment by Boddy, who despite the scare stories when he came in seems to be doing a decent job.

If we get promoted it won't be down to SISU.

As for the damage being irreparable I think if, by some miracle, we got back in to the Championship / PL and had a stadium there would be virtually no complaints but there's less than zero chance of that happening.

I think we can get back to the Championship and at that point we would be potentially more interesting as in investment. Promotion this time around is the key so that we don't lose our saleable assets from the academy too cheaply and hold onto McNulty, Jones etc (possibly Andreu) too. If we get some sell on money for Maddison or Wilson, then I'd trust MR to spend that and don't think it inconceivable with the confidence that we could get through L1. There is very little quality in the bottom two divisions and not a stretch to get out. The Championship however is now much stronger than when we left it, but being there makes us investible. The ground we didn't own when SISU took over so I don't see that being a stumbling block providing we can secure a longer term deal and increase matchday revenue - who else would Wasps have as tenants that would bring more regular income.

clint van damme · Apr 11, 2018

rob9872 said:
who else would Wasps have as tenants that would bring more regular income.

I'm sure they'd find someone, it's quite evident that there is an abundance of cretins in Cov with so little regard for the Citys sporting heritage that they sell it down the river for a free foam hand and a complimentary ticket.

Cavan O'Doherty · Apr 11, 2018

rob9872 said:
I think we can get back to the Championship and at that point we would be potentially more interesting as in investment. Promotion this time around is the key so that we don't lose our saleable assets from the academy too cheaply and hold onto McNulty, Jones etc (possibly Andreu) too. If we get some sell on money for Maddison or Wilson, then I'd trust MR to spend that and don't think it inconceivable with the confidence that we could get through L1. There is very little quality in the bottom two divisions and not a stretch to get out. The Championship however is now much stronger than when we left it, but being there makes us investible. The ground we didn't own when SISU took over so I don't see that being a stumbling block providing we can secure a longer term deal and increase matchday revenue - who else would Wasps have as tenants that would bring more regular income.

Not a chance mate. We seen what happened when Mowbray needed backing in January. I’m afraid this will happen time and time again with them in charge. They don’t speculate to accumulate.

Nick · Apr 11, 2018

Cavan O'Doherty said:
Not a chance mate. We seen what happened when Mowbray needed backing in January. I’m afraid this will happen time and time again with them in charge. They don’t speculate to accumulate.

The mowbray backing thing is a myth, he brought in plenty. Just not very good.

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Apr 11, 2018

Any progress made within the club has been in spite of, not because of , SISU. Pure and simple.
No one should be complacent with the prospect of possible promotion. A year from now we may be staring down the barrel of something far, far worse for our club (nowhere to play) and that will certainly not be attributed to anyone else except our owners.

Grendel · Apr 11, 2018

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Any progress made within the club has been in spite of, not because of , SISU. Pure and simple.
No one should be complacent with the prospect of possible promotion. A year from now we may be staring down the barrel of something far, far worse for our club (nowhere to play) and that will certainly not be attributed to anyone else except our owners.

Well it will but anyway

skyblueinBaku · Apr 11, 2018

ccfctommy said:
Like Fisher, who is a director of Sisu...

I don't think he is, Tommy. He doesn't seem to be listed on the FCA site.

shmmeee · Apr 11, 2018

In my eyes the two main things Sisu as opposed to CCFC are responsible for are getting us somewhere to play and stopping the stupid legals. On both fronts they are no different.

Lots of credit to the likes of Boddy and others who’s names I don’t know at the club to make a pretty good silk purse from a sow’s ear.

SISU - an improvement? (13 Viewers)

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