SISU disgrace (1 Viewer)

dongonzalos · Apr 17, 2012

We are in the fight off our lives 3 games to go. Only 5 players from Saturday able to train. 4 untested youngsters drafted in from the youth set up into the matchday squad.

No options for emergency loans as our owners have not submitted the books. Some people called this a formality.

I think the formality seems.to be sisu's attitude towards us getting relegated.

Absolute and utter disgrace.

Keys sounded very despondent on talk sport today about coventrys future.

So wish sisu came out and said what their genuine long term goal is. I honestly don't think they have one. Hence all the financial directors leaving.

Real · Apr 17, 2012

They can only come out and say what their long term goal is if they have one, and I'm not sure they do.

What did Keys say that made you think he was despondent about our future?

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Apr 17, 2012

And do you know what, if it all turns sour, there are many who don't have either the wisdom or intellect to look no further than Thorn to point the finger of blame...

sylus · Apr 17, 2012

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
And do you know what, if it all turns sour, there are many who don't have either the wisdom or intellect to look no further than Thorn to point the finger of blame...

well..they do say when the shit hits the fan..its always the manager who is gonna take the wrap...and rightly so...what are we supposed to do.if and when we go down..congratulate thorn...sisu have to go..we know that..they have destroyed this club...

Delboycov · Apr 17, 2012

What's shocks me more than that are those SISU apologists on here who would rather blame the fans than blame SISU....the most long suffering fans in the country. We are going down not because of Thorn,not because of Bryan Richardson, not because of the fans.....we're going down because through lack of any football knowledge our esteemed owners failed to provide Thorn with the basic tools to be able to compete at this level. Have they got any chance of recouping their 'investment' now? Not a hope. Godiva et al are about to get the club they deserve.

TommyAtkins · Apr 17, 2012

dongonzalos said:
We are in the fight off our lives 3 games to go. Only 5 players from Saturday able to train. 4 untested youngsters drafted in from the youth set up into the matchday squad.

No options for emergency loans as our owners have not submitted the books. Some people called this a formality.

I think the formality seems.to be sisu's attitude towards us getting relegated.

Absolute and utter disgrace.

Keys sounded very despondent on talk sport today about coventrys future.

So wish sisu came out and said what their genuine long term goal is. I honestly don't think they have one. Hence all the financial directors leaving.

The club was left in the lurch by the incompetence of Richardson and Robinson.

We are in a mess because we spent money we didn't have.

And now we are paying the consequences.

We can't spend money we don't have.

For an objective observer, SISU have probably done the right thing, in terms of managing this club's finances properly.

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Apr 17, 2012

Sorry Tommy can’t agree with you – although it’s pleasant to see your comments again. We are entering a critical game this evening with a transfer embargo hanging over us due to us not being able to file accounts on a timely basis, and give any assurances with regards our ingoing trading into next season. As such, we have to bench unproven kids this evening in a game we simply cannot afford to lose.

Financial prudence is one thing. Cutting blindly so deep as to damage the club is quite another. Especially when some of the problems are the fault of SISU themselves – for example, overseeing a 25% reduction in critical match-day income when the balance of the league over their term has only seen a downturn of 6%

Delboycov · Apr 17, 2012

SISU started with virtually a clean slate and the mistakes they've made this season have been their mistakes not those of another regime....and yes they have made mistakes, none more so than forcing a transfer embargo to be imposed. The OP makes a valid point about us having only 5 fit players at such a crucial time in our history. How anyone can even think about using the GR/BR card to explain why we're in such an inexcusable position with our squad numbers beggars belief.

TommyAtkins · Apr 17, 2012

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Sorry Tommy can’t agree with you – although it’s pleasant to see your comments again. We are entering a critical game this evening with a transfer embargo hanging over us due to us not being able to file accounts on a timely basis, and give any assurances with regards our ingoing trading into next season. As such, we have to bench unproven kids this evening in a game we simply cannot afford to lose.

Financial prudence is one thing. Cutting blindly so deep as to damage the club is quite another. Especially when some of the problems are the fault of SISU themselves – for example, overseeing a 25% reduction in critical match-day income when the balance of the league over their term has only seen a downturn of 6%

One does hate to use cliches but sooner or later, this club has to learn to stand on its own 2 feet.

I discussed with ashbyjan elsewhere the need for cuts and I share his concern that the cuts were made too quickly and too savagely.

Nevertheless, there is this misguided expectation that we have the right to have club that spends money it doesn't have on a sustained basis.

I would suggest the team has been damaged but the club hasn't been damaged. That isn't necessarily semantics; rather, I am of the mind that I can accept any state on the pitch, if it guarantees our long-term survival.

Delboycov · Apr 17, 2012

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Sorry Tommy can’t agree with you – although it’s pleasant to see your comments again. We are entering a critical game this evening with a transfer embargo hanging over us due to us not being able to file accounts on a timely basis, and give any assurances with regards our ingoing trading into next season. As such, we have to bench unproven kids this evening in a game we simply cannot afford to lose.

Financial prudence is one thing. Cutting blindly so deep as to damage the club is quite another. Especially when some of the problems are the fault of SISU themselves – for example, overseeing a 25% reduction in critical match-day income when the balance of the league over their term has only seen a downturn of 6%

Absolutely agree with all of that MMM...

Godiva · Apr 17, 2012

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Sorry Tommy can’t agree with you – although it’s pleasant to see your comments again. We are entering a critical game this evening with a transfer embargo hanging over us due to us not being able to file accounts on a timely basis, and give any assurances with regards our ingoing trading into next season. As such, we have to bench unproven kids this evening in a game we simply cannot afford to lose.

Financial prudence is one thing. Cutting blindly so deep as to damage the club is quite another. Especially when some of the problems are the fault of SISU themselves – for example, overseeing a 25% reduction in critical match-day income when the balance of the league over their term has only seen a downturn of 6%

You can't blame sisu for both cutting costs due to reduced revenue AND blame them for not respond to the decline in revenue.
Or am I missing something?

TommyAtkins · Apr 17, 2012

Delboycov said:
SISU started with virtually a clean slate and the mistakes they've made this season have been their mistakes not those of another regime....and yes they have made mistakes, none more so than forcing a transfer embargo to be imposed. The OP makes a valid point about us having only 5 fit players at such a crucial time in our history. How anyone can even think about using the GR/BR card to explain why we're in such an inexcusable position with our squad numbers beggars belief.

Nonsense.

Not even born out by facts.

Ranson told the fans - we needed c.23,000 to break even. So, no, they didn't inherit a clean slate. They inherited a club run into the ground by the wanton behaviour of Richardson and Robinson.

A club running at a loss and without a stadium.

This club was destroyed by GR and BR and we are living with the inevitable consequences. SISU or no SISU, this was all inevitable and a direct result of their mismanagement.

skyblueinBaku · Apr 17, 2012

I'm with MMM on this. Sisu were right in trying to stabilise the club financially, but the cuts they made were much too deep. Any 12 year old could reduce costs in a company in the way Sisu went about it. Cutting costs in a company has to be balanced with keeping that company competitive in it's market place. The hot-shot financial whizz kids at Sisu completely ignored the 'keeping it competitive' bit and are responsible for the state we now find ourselves in - a squad of walking wounded and inexperienced kids fighting a relegation battle.

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Apr 17, 2012

Godiva said:
You can't blame sisu for both cutting costs due to reduced revenue AND blame them for not respond to the decline in revenue.
Or am I missing something?

My point was more who's responsible for the reduction in revenue and the policies to respond to it. Our gates are down almost uniquely in the league - a 25% reduction in gates since SISU took over, equating to something like £2m in lost income. The rest of the league, as an average dropped by 6%, but has bounced back to only be 3% down compared with our 25%.

So, the mantra seems to be to respond to the reduction on revenue their own policies have generated by cutting costs, which gives rise to a worse league position, even lower revenues, lower gates, leading to more losses, matched by even greater cuts. And so the spiral goes on, ever inward. It just doesn't seem a journey with a destination

TommyAtkins · Apr 17, 2012

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
My point was more who's responsible for the reduction in revenue and the policies to respond to it. Our gates are down almost uniquely in the league - a 25% reduction in gates since SISU took over, equating to something like £2m in lost income. The rest of the league, as an average dropped by 6%, but has bounced back to only be 3% down compared with our 25%.

So, the mantra seems to be to respond to the reduction on revenue their own policies have generated by cutting costs, which gives rise to a worse league position, even lower revenues, lower gates, leading to more losses, matched by even greater cuts. And so the spiral goes on, ever inward. It just doesn't seem a journey with a destination

This was all too inevitable and is a direct result of Robinson and Richardson.

Sooner or later, we have to face up the consequences of what they did to the Sky Blues.

I know ashbyjan shares your view that the cuts were too quick and too severe but even if they had delayed some of these measures, we would still be facing relegation.

The Championship is becoming ever more competitive and we would be gradually cut adrift.

But - if they continued to spend, we would still be increasing an unsustainable debt and an increasingly unamanageable deficit.

Delboycov · Apr 17, 2012

The fact we will be lucky to be able to field a team at all tonight is not down to the mismanagement of previous regimes...it's down to the mismanagement of this one. I haven't seen an outcry from fans for us to spend megabucks on players but the least we can expect is for us to have a squad big enough to be able to field 11 capable players. Whilst our rivals were strengthening for the fight of their lives we were being placed under an embargo so forfeited any option of having any contingency plan in place should the worst come to the worst...which with the squad now down to the bare bones it has now.

dadgad · Apr 17, 2012

Good posts MMM.
Others won't have it though, will they?
Whilst I would concede that Robinson/Richardson were awful Sisu have been worse.
To face tonight's critical fixture with the background music of transfer embargo, untried academy players, unpaid rent and
no clear or sensible boardroom strategy points to the simple fact that Sisu are in the wrong game.
The fact that posters like TA still can't or won't see this is part of the problem.
How can AT win matches when his footballing strategy is being constantly undermined by a fiscal one of ever diminishing returns?
Even a schoolboy economist might recognise that this approach is doomed.

torchomatic · Apr 17, 2012

And this is the crux of it, isn't it?

Was it SISU who sold Highfield Road and left us homeless? Was it SISU who got us into £60M of debt? Was it SISU taking loans out of the club on a yearly basis? Was it SISU who had to get others to finance the Ricoh because we were so heavily in debt? Was it SISU who decided to pay £100K a month to them because we'd spectacularly fucked up our future and so didn't have any income from our "home" stadium? Was it SISU who paid out 125% of our revenue on wages?

While SISU certainly have buggered up big time this year, there are many reasons why we are in the shit and the "it was SISU what done it" argument is totally false regardless of how much you'd like it to be true.

SISU are worse indeed....pah!

dadgad said:
Whilst I would concede that Robinson/Richardson were awful Sisu have been worse.

torchomatic · Apr 17, 2012

Totally false. SISU did NOT start with a clean slate. And I'll tell you why; the Ricoh. The biggest millstone around our necks and the main reason we are tumbling down the leagues.

Not so long ago in the scheme of things we owned our own stadium, generated income and even filled it on occasion. Because of the sheer greed of men like Richardson, Hover, Robinson and Elliott they decided to build a new stadium for us. Unfortunately we were in so much debt that it became clear that we could never own it.

Did the fans want to move? No, Richardson did.

While I will certainy say that SISU are far from ideal and should be gone as soon as, it naive to think that our problems are all down to them, though I'll grant you they've certainly compounded the situation.

Personally, it beggars belief that some fans are so reluctant to look further than SISU for our current problems.

Please do a Google search and see for yourself some of the things Richardson was up to. If SISU came anywhere near him in terms of skullduggery and villany then I'm afraid your head would most likely explode with the knowledge.

Delboycov said:
SISU started with virtually a clean slate and the mistakes they've made this season have been their mistakes not those of another regime....and yes they have made mistakes, none more so than forcing a transfer embargo to be imposed. The OP makes a valid point about us having only 5 fit players at such a crucial time in our history. How anyone can even think about using the GR/BR card to explain why we're in such an inexcusable position with our squad numbers beggars belief.

Grendel · Apr 17, 2012

TommyAtkins said:
Nonsense.

Not even born out by facts.

Ranson told the fans - we needed c.23,000 to break even. So, no, they didn't inherit a clean slate. They inherited a club run into the ground by the wanton behaviour of Richardson and Robinson.

A club running at a loss and without a stadium.

This club was destroyed by GR and BR and we are living with the inevitable consequences. SISU or no SISU, this was all inevitable and a direct result of their mismanagement.

Ranson also had a vision of running a small squad of circa 22 players. The consequence of that is now also apparent. An injury list of freakish proportions has decimated the squad so it's hardly able to put out a team tonight.

There is one unpalatable fact that no-one seems to address. I do not believe that there is one team who has been relegated out of the Premiership who has then failed to get back within the parachute window who has not then either entered administration and / or got relegated to League One.

It is an inevitable consequence of falling off the gravy train.

The 23,000 was a ridiculous notion. We could never sustain that. Crowds were always going to decline once the stadium effect wore off as success was never likely once the payments ceased.

We have been living on life support for years, SISU as the latest carers have provided less oxygen than the predecessors' but their mismanagement was equally irresponsible.

It's about to be cut off. We are going where we always would be as history proves.

oldskyblue58 · Apr 17, 2012

From the football league site our average attendance over the last 4 years has dropped from 17407 to 15173 currently. Thats a fall of 13%

Of the teams that have only been in the Championship in that period then on average the fall has been 8%. The biggest fall being Doncaster and Barnsley at 22%. The biggest fall in numbers has been Derby at 3481 (we dropped 2234 in same period)

Average total league attendance this season = 17668.... four years ago (2008/09 season) it was 17886 - no movement to all intents and purposes

http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/DivisionalAttendance/0,,10794~20087,00.html

Clearly actions taken by SISU influence things but there is a big chunk of the fall in attendances that is out of their control. It also depends on who is in the division which is why I compared those who stayed in the division in my 2nd paragraph

Grendel · Apr 17, 2012

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
My point was more who's responsible for the reduction in revenue and the policies to respond to it. Our gates are down almost uniquely in the league - a 25% reduction in gates since SISU took over, equating to something like £2m in lost income. The rest of the league, as an average dropped by 6%, but has bounced back to only be 3% down compared with our 25%.

So, the mantra seems to be to respond to the reduction on revenue their own policies have generated by cutting costs, which gives rise to a worse league position, even lower revenues, lower gates, leading to more losses, matched by even greater cuts. And so the spiral goes on, ever inward. It just doesn't seem a journey with a destination

Our gates are not down uniquely at all. The facts are grossly distorted by the stadium. You have to compare our crowd base with that of clubs who are in a similar position - namely new stadium, no success etc. We are now at the crowds we were at Highfield Road. You are very selective in your responses. You cited Middlesbrough as a success. They have declined hugely, by over 40% in 2 years - Why? The previous crowds were false and drawn in by Premier League and the stadium. Hull also you quoted - they will soon return to low levels as they too fall of the gravy train. Crowd reduction has more to do with the natural return to order than SISU.

This is an impossible club to manage and make a success. SISU are not even very competent but there is no real solution.

Godiva · Apr 17, 2012

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
My point was more who's responsible for the reduction in revenue and the policies to respond to it. Our gates are down almost uniquely in the league - a 25% reduction in gates since SISU took over, equating to something like £2m in lost income. The rest of the league, as an average dropped by 6%, but has bounced back to only be 3% down compared with our 25%.

So, the mantra seems to be to respond to the reduction on revenue their own policies have generated by cutting costs, which gives rise to a worse league position, even lower revenues, lower gates, leading to more losses, matched by even greater cuts. And so the spiral goes on, ever inward. It just doesn't seem a journey with a destination

That comparison is not very accurate from a statistical standpoint. It completely fails to take into accounts that we are just about the only team who have been in the league for the whole of the period.
And it does matter who we play.

But the most important factor is the Ricoh. When we moved here the average gate rose by more than 5.000 per home game. As the news factor wore off, the newbies stayed away.
Now we are back to the figures we had at HR - 15.000.

Some could argue that at least some of the 1.000 fans we have lost since last season are due to the campaign to stay away from home matches.
If you take 6 home games in succession starting Nov 6th the average attendants is 15.100.
Then take last 6 home matches the average is 16.400.
Is that a coincidence? Probably, but it could actually be a meassurement of the 'success' of the stay-away-campaign.
Yet, from a statistical point of view it is just as inaccurate as your calculation.

Godiva · Apr 17, 2012

Oh well, OSB and Kduffy stole my points due to my one-finger typing rate at five keystrokes per minute.
Still, they didn't steal the very far-stretched point about the stay-away-campaign.

Grendel · Apr 17, 2012

Godiva said:
Oh well, OSB and Kduffy stole my points due to my one-finger typing rate at five keystrokes per minute.
Still, they didn't steal the very far-stretched point about the stay-away-campaign.

We will be wrong though. MMM is the statistical guru - didn't you know?

lordsummerisle · Apr 17, 2012

Ranson's appointments of Coleman and Boothroyd, and the dreadful football produced with possibly our best squad(s) of players since relegation have to have had an enormous effect on our crowds.

Also had to have an enormous effect on Sisu's willigness to throw more more money at a team that was doing no better, if not worse than it was doing before.

Thank God for the football man, Ray " No debt" Ranson.

dadgad · Apr 17, 2012

torchomatic said:
And this is the crux of it, isn't it?

Was it SISU who sold Highfield Road and left us homeless? Was it SISU who got us into £60M of debt? Was it SISU taking loans out of the club on a yearly basis? Was it SISU who had to get others to finance the Ricoh because we were so heavily in debt? Was it SISU who decided to pay £100K a month to them because we'd spectacularly fecked up our future and so didn't have any income from our "home" stadium? Was it SISU who paid out 125% of our revenue on wages
While SISU certainly have buggered up big time this year, there are many reasons why we are in the shit and the "it was SISU what done it" argument is totally false regardless of how much you'd like it to be true.

SISU are worse indeed....pah!

Torchy, I have conceded that the previous regime was awful but the recent 'slash and burn' by Sisu has exacerbated the problems NOT ameliorated them.
The progressive decline over the last four years is an accurate and irrefutable testament to this.

grego_gee · Apr 17, 2012

TommyAtkins said:
I would suggest the team has been damaged but the club hasn't been damaged.

Interesting thought?
I wonder if SISU have taken the club to heart like that? imp:

TommyAtkins · Apr 17, 2012

Delboycov said:
The fact we will be lucky to be able to field a team at all tonight is not down to the mismanagement of previous regimes...it's down to the mismanagement of this one. I haven't seen an outcry from fans for us to spend megabucks on players but the least we can expect is for us to have a squad big enough to be able to field 11 capable players. Whilst our rivals were strengthening for the fight of their lives we were being placed under an embargo so forfeited any option of having any contingency plan in place should the worst come to the worst...which with the squad now down to the bare bones it has now.

Absoutely not.

We are fielding a weakened team because we cannot afford to buy players.

Where is this mythical money supposed to come from?

Or are we expecting other people to fund us indefinitely again?

You are so hung-up about a poxy relegation, when the very future of our club is at stake.

TommyAtkins · Apr 17, 2012

dadgad said:
Good posts MMM.
Others won't have it though, will they?
Whilst I would concede that Robinson/Richardson were awful Sisu have been worse.
To face tonight's critical fixture with the background music of transfer embargo, untried academy players, unpaid rent and
no clear or sensible boardroom strategy points to the simple fact that Sisu are in the wrong game.
The fact that posters like TA still can't or won't see this is part of the problem.
How can AT win matches when his footballing strategy is being constantly undermined by a fiscal one of ever diminishing returns?
Even a schoolboy economist might recognise that this approach is doomed.

Clearly nonsense.

Richardson and Robinson left us without a stadium, £60 million in debt and with a deficit.

SISU have reduced the debt. That might be a tiny achievement but it makes them miles better than GR and BR.

Truth is - its the fans who bleat mindless mantras about SISU that are blinded to reality.

Who cares about results in the short-term, when the very future of the club is at risk.

oldskyblue58 · Apr 17, 2012

On the figures published CCFC Ltd Turnover May 2008 = £9.2m compared to Turnover May 2010 £9.3m (excluding any player sales). I would expect 2011 and 2012 income to have decreased from that but we do not know what those figures are yet.

Just to be clear I do not excuse or apologise for SISU in any shape or form but our plight is not so simple as "its all SISU's fault", but yes they are major contributors.

TommyAtkins · Apr 17, 2012

kduffy said:
Ranson also had a vision of running a small squad of circa 22 players. The consequence of that is now also apparent. An injury list of freakish proportions has decimated the squad so it's hardly able to put out a team tonight.

There is one unpalatable fact that no-one seems to address. I do not believe that there is one team who has been relegated out of the Premiership who has then failed to get back within the parachute window who has not then either entered administration and / or got relegated to League One.

It is an inevitable consequence of falling off the gravy train.

The 23,000 was a ridiculous notion. We could never sustain that. Crowds were always going to decline once the stadium effect wore off as success was never likely once the payments ceased.

We have been living on life support for years, SISU as the latest carers have provided less oxygen than the predecessors' but their mismanagement was equally irresponsible.

It's about to be cut off. We are going where we always would be as history proves.

If we couldn't sustain 23,000, then we shouldn't have budget it for it.

Costs should have been cut then

Or do we expect other people to continually fund our football club for us?

As I said: time for us to live in the real world and pay our way in it.

DazzleTommyDazzle · Apr 17, 2012

Godiva said:
You can't blame sisu for both cutting costs due to reduced revenue AND blame them for not respond to the decline in revenue.
Or am I missing something?

You argument seems to be that because they did "something", that was good.

My argument is they needed to act in a financially sensible way that was supported by an overall strategy, not to just slash costs and then hope that everything turned out OK.

TommyAtkins · Apr 17, 2012

torchomatic said:
Totally false. SISU did NOT start with a clean slate. And I'll tell you why; the Ricoh. The biggest millstone around our necks and the main reason we are tumbling down the leagues.

Not so long ago in the scheme of things we owned our own stadium, generated income and even filled it on occasion. Because of the sheer greed of men like Richardson, Hover, Robinson and Elliott they decided to build a new stadium for us. Unfortunately we were in so much debt that it became clear that we could never own it.

Did the fans want to move? No, Richardson did.

While I will certainy say that SISU are far from ideal and should be gone as soon as, it naive to think that our problems are all down to them, though I'll grant you they've certainly compounded the situation.

Personally, it beggars belief that some fans are so reluctant to look further than SISU for our current problems.

Please do a Google search and see for yourself some of the things Richardson was up to. If SISU came anywhere near him in terms of skullduggery and villany then I'm afraid your head would most likely explode with the knowledge.

Well said

It is refreshing to know there are fans out there with an ability to move beyond the hysterical hypocrisy of the "blame SISU" crowd, who bleat out their untruths with no comprehension of reality.

One of the reasons that the SISU Out campaign failed in such an embarrassing way, was because the campaign failed to address the real problems and real concerns of the majority of Cov fans.

TommyAtkins · Apr 17, 2012

DazzleTommyDazzle said:
You argument seems to be that because they did "something", that was good.

My argument is they needed to act in a financially sensible way that was supported by an overall strategy, not to just slash costs and then hope that everything turned out OK.

But something had to be done sooner or later. Your argument that they just slashed costs mirrors that of ashbyjan and MMM - and I have no argument with that.

Nevertheless, this club could not just continue with mounting debts and a lasting operating deficit indefinitely.

Cost cutting had to happen at some point to save the club in the long term.

SISU or no SISU, we have been in decline for at least 10 years. It happens. At some point the decline will plateau out when the club reaches a sustainable level.

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