Sisu lack of ambition & investment (1 Viewer)

cochese · Jan 29, 2014

Astute said:
He says he knows nothing of the charges put onto our club by SISU yet knows about the finances enough to blame CCC for our predicament.

ACL provided us with a ground to play in for 1.2m. We all say that was too much.

SISU charge our club 3.7m for ripping our club apart and taking it to Northampton. Is this value for money?

You make it sound like I think CCC are the only ones to blame for all of this. Thanks for putting words into my mouth. Your powers of deduction are brilliant.

And thanks for quoting figures from 2011. It's 2014. And we've been through administration and a big overhaul with regards to those who run our club now. So you don't know how much SISU is charging the club in management fees right now do you? You also don't know if and how much interest we are paying for SISU to subsidize our temporary location to Northampton either.

Grendel · Jan 29, 2014

cochese said:
You make it sound like I think CCC are the only ones to blame for all of this. Thanks for putting words into my mouth. Your powers of deduction are brilliant.

And thanks for quoting figures from 2011. It's 2014. And we've been through administration and a big overhaul with regards to those who run our club now. So you don't know how much SISU is charging the club in management fees right now do you? You also don't know if and how much interest we are paying for SISU to subsidize our temporary location to Northampton either.

Remember dear chap this is astute you are dealing with. His grasp of facts is to say the least, somewhat tenuous.

Astute · Jan 29, 2014

Moff said:
I know the reasons for our current predicament, lets face it its mentioned in most posts each and every day, but I felt Cochese made a valid point about what set the wheels in motion, which was what I pointed out. If we hadnt had been in such a mess we would never have needed to sell to a Hedge Fund.

We all agree on this point.

CCFC not owning their own ground was not the fault of SISU at all. Getting relegated to the championship was no fault of theirs either. 1.2m rent had nothing to do with them.

Not negotiating the rent at any time......100% their fault.

Not paying any rent at all whilst saying the rent was too high.....100% their fault.

Changing it to being all about the pie money when a rent that they were supposed to be happy with once it was offered......100% their fault.

Taking us to Northampton whilst trying to send ACL to the wall......100% their fault.

The boat has sailed as CCC won't agree with what they want whilst ACL/CCC kept wanting to negotiate........100% their fault.

In talks with two local councils and other blatant lies to us fans........100% their fault.

It was said that most of the debt was wiped out when they took over. A lot of it would have been payable if we reached the Prem in a certain time IIRC. We went the wrong way. They even told us we were debt free at one stage. Now Appleton tells us we are 70m in debt......after 6 years in charge and a relegation.....whilst we were losing 0.5m a year at one stage :thinking about: So where did the debt come from other than the 3.7m a year that SISU charge our club?

Astute · Jan 29, 2014

cochese said:
You make it sound like I think CCC are the only ones to blame for all of this. Thanks for putting words into my mouth. Your powers of deduction are brilliant.

And thanks for quoting figures from 2011. It's 2014. And we've been through administration and a big overhaul with regards to those who run our club now. So you don't know how much SISU is charging the club in management fees right now do you? You also don't know if and how much interest we are paying for SISU to subsidize our temporary location to Northampton either.

Are you saying you think they are now charging us less now?

So why didn't they publish them in 2012? That would have been before the liquidation joke. They were late submitting them.

So you said earlier that you thought I was making up the charges that SISU make on our club. Now you make the excuse of them not publishing the accounts like they are supposed to do by law on them not charging our club.

fernandopartridge · Jan 29, 2014

ecky said:
How the hell can you hope to make the play offs with the size of squad we have?
I am totally dismayed by sisu they have hamstrung pressley provided no funds of any worth and here we have another season dead in the water.
If Clarke goes and he should in my opinion, that money will quickly disappear. What has this club come to when we are playing a 16 year old kid who obviously isn't ready......words fail me over the deplorable state that my club is now in.

NOPM - that's what you wanted wasn't it? Not One Penny More, starve them out.

Astute · Jan 29, 2014

Grendel said:
Remember dear chap this is astute you are dealing with. His grasp of facts is to say the least, somewhat tenuous.

So are my facts wrong about them charging our club 3.7m a year the last year that they published the accounts wrong? Do you think this is a fair amount to charge our club when you say that ACL were milking our club by charging 1.2m for a place to play? Is this 3.7m a year value for money?

cochese · Jan 29, 2014

Astute said:
Are you saying you think they are now charging us less now?

So why didn't they publish them in 2012? That would have been before the liquidation joke. They were late submitting them.

So you said earlier that you thought I was making up the charges that SISU make on our club. Now you make the excuse of them not publishing the accounts like they are supposed to do by law on them not charging our club.

Astute said:
So what happened to them financing our stay in Northampton? Or was it just another lie to us?

They can gift the club money. They will not lose out as they are charging the club 2.5m a year in mismanagement fees and 1.2m interest payments. And once they take us back to Coventry they will be in profit with the skeleton squad we will have to get used to.

You do not know what they are charging us in management fees and interest payments.

Sky Blue Kid · Jan 29, 2014

Grenduffy.........Remember dear chap this is astute you are dealing with. His grasp of......"FACTS"........ is to say the least, somewhat tenuous.....................................................................................................LMFAO hahahahahahaha!!!

Ashdown1 · Jan 29, 2014

Grendel said:
Remember dear chap this is astute you are dealing with. His grasp of facts is to say the least, somewhat tenuous.

'Our temporary location to Northampton'.......................Can you please define temporary?! As this seems to be dragging on a bit and surely you don't believe in SISU's new cloud cuckoo land stadium?!

Ashdown1 · Jan 29, 2014

OOPs that was for Cochese !

Astute · Jan 29, 2014

cochese said:
You do not know what they are charging us in management fees and interest payments.

Try looking at the 2011 accounts. That showed you. And someone else told you where it was published.

Don't worry. I suppose it don't go with your plan of blaming 1.2m being too much to rent when SISU charge our club 3 times as much for nothing. See nothing. Hear nothing.

In 2010 they charged 1.2m interest and 2.4m mismanagement fees IIRC. Not sure if the interest is exact but the mismanagement fees was 2.4m. So it went up. So yes you are right. The fees they charge could easily be 4m by now. But they knew how unhappy lots of us were when they published the last one when it got noticed so they held back on the 2012 and 2013 was covered by the liquidation so neither will be published now. Yet you say they are now innocent.

cochese · Jan 29, 2014

Astute said:
Try looking at the 2011 accounts. That showed you. And someone else told you where it was published.

Don't worry. I suppose it don't go with your plan of blaming 1.2m being too much to rent when SISU charge our club 3 times as much for nothing. See nothing. Hear nothing.

In 2010 they charged 1.2m interest and 2.4m mismanagement fees IIRC. Not sure if the interest is exact but the mismanagement fees was 2.4m. So it went up. So yes you are right. The fees they charge could easily be 4m by now. But they knew how unhappy lots of us were when they published the last one when it got noticed so they held back on the 2012 and 2013 was covered by the liquidation so neither will be published now. Yet you say they are now innocent.

in 2010 they charged us those management fees. Past tense. In the past. Not now. Not any more. Used to. You do not know what SISU are charging the club now. This second. This moment. Right now.

fernandopartridge · Jan 29, 2014

Astute said:
Try looking at the 2011 accounts. That showed you. And someone else told you where it was published.

Don't worry. I suppose it don't go with your plan of blaming 1.2m being too much to rent when SISU charge our club 3 times as much for nothing. See nothing. Hear nothing.

In 2010 they charged 1.2m interest and 2.4m mismanagement fees IIRC. Not sure if the interest is exact but the mismanagement fees was 2.4m. So it went up. So yes you are right. The fees they charge could easily be 4m by now. But they knew how unhappy lots of us were when they published the last one when it got noticed so they held back on the 2012 and 2013 was covered by the liquidation so neither will be published now. Yet you say they are now innocent.

For the millionth time, there is a difference between a charge on an account and money actually being paid.

Astute · Jan 29, 2014

cochese said:
in 2010 they charged us those management fees. Past tense. In the past. Not now. Not any more. Used to. You do not know what SISU are charging the club now. This second. This moment. Right now.

So are you saying you now think that those charges you say you knew nothing about this morning are now not charged to our club because SISU didn't publish the accounts?

The evidence is out there. They charged our club each year. Show me the evidence that they have stopped charging our club. And maybe if you started looking at all the bad they are doing to our club and hoping none of it is true you would see the truth much more.

Captain Dart · Jan 29, 2014

cochese said:
in 2010 they charged us those management fees. Past tense. In the past. Not now. Not any more. Used to. You do not know what SISU are charging the club now. This second. This moment. Right now.

Well no as they don't publish accounts, is that because something is being hidden?

fernandopartridge said:
For the millionth time, there is a difference between a charge on an account and money actually being paid.

Agreed, but ISTR OSB reckoned a substantial part of those fees were paid out.

oldskyblue58 said:
Actually the 2012 SBS&L Group accounts show that £980,737 interest was actually paid out and in 2011 £465,112. I do not think the interest due to ARVO and any very short term lender is being rolled up, it looks like it is being paid over

PS, added the comment where he said it..

Astute · Jan 29, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
For the millionth time, there is a difference between a charge on an account and money actually being paid.

And I have told you a million times not to exaggerate

So what is good about putting our debts up by this much every year? It is already much more than anyone would be willing to pay. And IMHO it won't help them get the Ricoh on their terms. It won't help bringing our club home.

cochese · Jan 29, 2014

Astute said:
So are you saying you now think that those charges you say you knew nothing about this morning are now not charged to our club because SISU didn't publish the accounts?

The evidence is out there. They charged our club each year. Show me the evidence that they have stopped charging our club. And maybe if you started looking at all the bad they are doing to our club and hoping none of it is true you would see the truth much more.

You don't have any evidence though do you. You said it yourself, the accounts haven't been filed. If the accounts haven't been filed how can you be sure what is being charged. You have no evidence what they are charging the club now. You're making it up. Guessing. Assuming. Make believe.

Until I have the facts, like you, I can't prove what is being charged.

dongonzalos · Jan 29, 2014

RFC said:
For God's sake! They have been funding the Club for how long? Give us a break and please look at the bigger picture, we're not in a great position but that's not just down to the owners. Others are equally to blame for this debacle!

Listen to Steven Pressley interview with BBC CWR tonight.

The owners have been in charge for 6 years.

You are judged by your own actions not the actions of others.

In 6 years we have had relegation to division 3

We have moved 35 miles from Coventry renting a third division stadium.

We have the lowest crowds we have ever had.

We have the smallest squad we ever had.

Our plan out is not believed by the majority of supporters.

The majority of supporters want the owners to go.

What break exactly do you want?

Astute · Jan 29, 2014

cochese said:
You don't have any evidence though do you. You said it yourself, the accounts haven't been filed. If the accounts haven't been filed how can you be sure what is being charged. You have no evidence what they are charging the club now. You're making it up. Guessing. Assuming. Make believe.

Until I have the facts, like you, I can't prove what is being charged.

And as I said the charges were going up each year. Our debts are going up each year. They refused to publish their accounts. They held on until the liquidation. Now they don't have to. Now we will never know how much they are charging.

Answer two things. Why didn't they publish them if they had nothing to hide from us? Why would they suddenly stop charging our club?

We have the facts as far as published. How much more proof do you need? Why do you feel a need to stick up for SISU?

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Jan 29, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
For the millionth time, there is a difference between a charge on an account and money actually being paid.

Surely, that's only cash-flow semantics? If it's a charge that's reflected in P&L, it's a liability the club carries, even if it remains undischarged?

And whilst I don't want to get into the details of this one, as I have a busy day ahead; if a charge has been made, it's fair to comment on the fairness of it's magnitude, even of cash actually doesn't change hands? As the liability in favour of the 'lending' or 'managing' party increases, meaning that party can exert greater control over the club as a function of doing so - and therefore it has a 'value'

Astute · Jan 29, 2014

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Surely, that's only cash-flow semantics? If it's a charge that's reflected in P&L, it's a liability the club carries, even if it remains undischarged?

And whilst I don't want to get into the details of this one, as I have a busy day ahead; if a charge has been made, it's fair to comment on the fairness of it's magnitude, even of cash actually doesn't change hands? As the liability in favour of the 'lending' or 'managing' party increases, meaning that party can exert greater control over the club as a function of doing so - and therefore it has a 'value'

For example if they did ever get their hands on the Ricoh and everything around it they would get to keep everything if they totally liquidated our club as all moneys owed would be to them.

Sky Blue Kid · Jan 29, 2014

@ cochese............You are being shown FACTS that you originally disbelieved...Or was it that you couldn't be A**ed to look for it? This is the 4th time (In total) of "Showing" people like you......................Astute was right...They are MISMANAGEMENT FEES.....................................CCFC Ltd shows a total income in the year to 31 May 2011 of £10,267,7089 (2010, £9,291,108) an increase of just under £1 Million on the previous year, with Sponsorship, advertising, club shop & promotions contributing £6,341,808 (2010, £4,930,590) and match day receipts of £3,925,900 (2010, £4,360,518). CCFC Holdings Ltd has a total income in the year to 31 May 2011 of £4,478,157 (2010, £4,432,954), which is a small increase on the previous year, with sponsorship, advertising, club shop & promotions contributing £1,791,315 (2010, £1,663,196) and charging management fees of £2,686,842 (2010, £2,769,758). Who these management fees are paid to is not disclosed.

Grendel · Jan 29, 2014

Astute said:
For example if they did ever get their hands on the Ricoh and everything around it they would get to keep everything if they totally liquidated our club as all moneys owed would be to them.

You missed the words "grubby little" before hands - you are slipping.

DazzleTommyDazzle · Jan 29, 2014

Grendel said:
You missed the words "grubby little" before hands - you are slipping.

I'm not sure that they are little

cochese · Jan 29, 2014

Sky Blue Kid said:
@ cochese............You are being shown FACTS that you originally disbelieved...Or was it that you couldn't be A**ed to look for it? This is the 4th time (In total) of "Showing" people like you......................Astute was right...They are MISMANAGEMENT FEES.....................................CCFC Ltd shows a total income in the year to 31 May 2011 of £10,267,7089 (2010, £9,291,108) an increase of just under £1 Million on the previous year, with Sponsorship, advertising, club shop & promotions contributing £6,341,808 (2010, £4,930,590) and match day receipts of £3,925,900 (2010, £4,360,518). CCFC Holdings Ltd has a total income in the year to 31 May 2011 of £4,478,157 (2010, £4,432,954), which is a small increase on the previous year, with sponsorship, advertising, club shop & promotions contributing £1,791,315 (2010, £1,663,196) and charging management fees of £2,686,842 (2010, £2,769,758). Who these management fees are paid to is not disclosed.

What were the fees for 2013?

Sky Blue Kid · Jan 29, 2014

@ cochese............You are being shown FACTS that you originally disbelieved...Or was it that you couldn't be A**ed to look for it? This is the 4th time (In total) of "Showing" people like you......................Astute was right...They are MISMANAGEMENT FEES.....................................CCFC Ltd shows a total income in the year to 31 May 2011 of £10,267,7089 (2010, £9,291,108) an increase of just under £1 Million on the previous year, with Sponsorship, advertising, club shop & promotions contributing £6,341,808 (2010, £4,930,590) and match day receipts of £3,925,900 (2010, £4,360,518). CCFC Holdings Ltd has a total income in the year to 31 May 2011 of £4,478,157 (2010, £4,432,954), which is a small increase on the previous year, with sponsorship, advertising, club shop & promotions contributing £1,791,315 (2010, £1,663,196) and charging management fees of £2,686,842 (2010, £2,769,758). Who these management fees are paid to is not disclosed.

Astute · Jan 29, 2014

Grendel said:
You missed the words "grubby little" before hands - you are slipping.

Why did I?

Just came out with the facts. You always say you like facts.

Is that the best you can come out with?

Ashdown1 · Jan 29, 2014

cochese said:
What were the fees for 2013?

These accounts won't be worked out for sometime yet, do you think the fees will be £Zero?

Astute · Jan 29, 2014

cochese said:
What were the fees for 2013?

Or 2012?

Oh yes I forgot SISU forgot to publish them. No idea why either :thinking about:

I hate the words 'SISU apologist' but I am starting to think it would suit you down to the ground. It seems that they can do no wrong in your eyes as you can't seem to see wrong in anything they do.

cochese · Jan 29, 2014

Astute said:
So what happened to them financing our stay in Northampton? Or was it just another lie to us?

They can gift the club money. They will not lose out as they are charging the club 2.5m a year in mismanagement fees and 1.2m interest payments. And once they take us back to Coventry they will be in profit with the skeleton squad we will have to get used to.

Astute said:
And as I said the charges were going up each year. Our debts are going up each year. They refused to publish their accounts. They held on until the liquidation. Now they don't have to. Now we will never know how much they are charging.

Answer two things. Why didn't they publish them if they had nothing to hide from us? Why would they suddenly stop charging our club?

We have the facts as far as published. How much more proof do you need? Why do you feel a need to stick up for SISU?

Astute said:
Why did I?

Just came out with the facts. You always say you like facts.

Is that the best you can come out with?

Facts like these?

I'm not trying to defend SISU. I'm just trying to prove that you don't know the difference between fact and fiction.

Astute · Jan 29, 2014

Sky Blue Kid said:
@ cochese............You are being shown FACTS that you originally disbelieved...Or was it that you couldn't be A**ed to look for it? This is the 4th time (In total) of "Showing" people like you......................Astute was right...They are MISMANAGEMENT FEES.....................................CCFC Ltd shows a total income in the year to 31 May 2011 of £10,267,7089 (2010, £9,291,108) an increase of just under £1 Million on the previous year, with Sponsorship, advertising, club shop & promotions contributing £6,341,808 (2010, £4,930,590) and match day receipts of £3,925,900 (2010, £4,360,518). CCFC Holdings Ltd has a total income in the year to 31 May 2011 of £4,478,157 (2010, £4,432,954), which is a small increase on the previous year, with sponsorship, advertising, club shop & promotions contributing £1,791,315 (2010, £1,663,196) and charging management fees of £2,686,842 (2010, £2,769,758). Who these management fees are paid to is not disclosed.

I was being kind to them. So their mismanagement fees were 2.7m So they took 4m out each season

Astute · Jan 29, 2014

cochese said:
Facts like these?

I'm not trying to defend SISU. I'm just trying to prove that you don't know the difference between fact and fiction.

So we see the facts but you make out it is fiction?

Sky Blue Kid · Jan 29, 2014

@ cochese.....You're not Grenduffy's brother are you?.............Nobody, other than SISU know what they're charging OUR football club for 2012/2013/2014 (They still haven't produced the paperwork)...but charge the club they will. What is your problem pal, you're shown FACTS, yet you still try to deflect away from SISU...WHY?????.......You're not blind as well are you?

Ashdown1 · Jan 29, 2014

I think the title of this thread is really rather misleading...............SISU are very ambitious, their primary ambition is to get the Ricoh for next to nothing and capitalise on it when they do !
Oh, I see, ambition for the football club, nah you're right that will just be collateral damage when they finally pull the plug. Remember Joy doesn't like football !

cochese · Jan 29, 2014

Sky Blue Kid said:
@ cochese.....You're not Grenduffy's brother are you?.............Nobody, other than SISU know what they're charging OUR football club for 2012/2013/2014 (They still haven't produced the paperwork)...but charge the club they will. What is your problem pal, you're shown FACTS, yet you still try to deflect away from SISU...WHY?????.......You're not blind as well are you?

Astute knows exactly what SISU are charging. He made the figure up himself.

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