SISU say they may "get out of town" next week (4 Viewers)

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Mar 11, 2013

torchomatic said:
Couldn't agree more, which has always been my beef with the Trust, who certainly aren't independent.

Same goes for you with your blatantly pro ACL song in your signature

ashbyjan · Mar 11, 2013

theferret said:
Your little addition at the end ".. oh and a Premier League standard ground as well" spoke volumes, a clear indication of which side of the fence you stand, despite your protestations to the contrary. Almost everything I see you post is done to try to contradict or undermine those that are arguing against the position of the council/ACL.

If that is your position fine, lay your cards on the table, but let's not play games with this phony 'I trust neither side' nonsense. It just doesn't wash.

Sorry is the Ricoh not a Premiership standard ground? All else that I have stated are facts - if they don't suit your particular stance then so be it but those are the facts. Do we trust SISU or the Council or even the Charity 100%? No, they all have their own agendas and slant on things. What the Trust wants is an end to all this and an agreement to be reached without all this garbage, from both sides, in the press.

Both sides behave like children and its time to stop posturing, threatening and remember that the club is not bricks, mortar and numbers on a balance sheet - it is the thousands of fans who love and care about CCFC, fans who will be here long after Mutton, Fisher, Sepalla etc are gone and forgotten. What is needed is mediation / arbitration and getting this pathetic squabble sorted once and for all - its not about sides or winners and losers because as in any dispute its about compromise and reaching a solution.

hill83 · Mar 11, 2013

ashbyjan said:
Sorry is the Ricoh not a Premiership standard ground? All else that I have stated are facts - if they don't suit your particular stance then so be it but those are the facts. Do we trust SISU or the Council or even the Charity 100%? No, they all have their own agendas and slant on things. What the Trust wants is an end to all this and an agreement to be reached without all this garbage, from both sides, in the press.

Both sides behave like children and its time to stop posturing, threatening and remember that the club is not bricks, mortar and numbers on a balance sheet - it is the thousands of fans who love and care about CCFC, fans who will be here long after Mutton, Fisher, Sepalla etc are gone and forgotten. What is needed is mediation / arbitration and getting this pathetic squabble sorted once and for all - its not about sides or winners and losers because as in any dispute its about compromise and reaching a solution.

You talk the talk, but I genuinely don't believe you.
You are definitely on one side of the fence.
I want my pound back.

MichaelCCFC · Mar 11, 2013

We are faced with the threat of liquidation and this leads to having a go at Jan????

About to be published Sky Blue Trust aims are:

The Sky Blue Trust wants a Coventry CityFootball Club which has success on the pitch, is financially stable and rooted in thecommunity. We believe that greater involvement of supporters is vital for the future of the Club.

TheTrust’s Aims are to:
• obtain an ownership stake in CCFC, giving supporters a direct say in the running of the Club and having at least one democratically elected Trust member on the CCFC Board – like at Swansea;
• advocate financial stability for CCFC, with a business model based on avoiding unsustainable debt, and profits being reinvested directly in the Club;
• have City fans recognised as the lifeblood of the Club and at the heart of everything CCFC does.

To achieve these Aims the Trust will:
• seek to work in partnership with the Club and all other stakeholders in CCFC
• represent and give voice to the views of Trust members;
• pursue any viable opportunity to gain an ownership stake in CCFC
• campaign for improvements to the match day experience.
The Sky Blue Trust is an independent, democratic, not for profit, supporters’ group which operates transparently and with membership open to all Sky Blues supporters.

Hundreds of City fans have alreadyjoined the Trust – it only costs £1 (under 16s free) – So why don’t you?

hill83 · Mar 11, 2013

Yes it does. Because I am fucking sick of it. The trust was formed on an anti Sisu bias. I'm not anti or pro, but the trust come across as anti. So I'm well within my rights to having a fucking go if I fucking want to.

sky blue john · Mar 11, 2013

I agree Jan a compromise has to be reached.
The only problem with that is that one side has got their house in order so that they have been able to offer a better deal. And one side has just demanded everything for nothing !!!

Grendel · Mar 11, 2013

sky blue john said:
I agree Jan a compromise has to be reached.
The only problem with that is that one side has got their house in order so that they have been able to offer a better deal. And one side has just demanded everything for nothing !!!

Nice to see there are still some who worship at Mutton's altar.

Jan will be relieved.

ashbyjan · Mar 11, 2013

So because we aren't advocating building a rotund wicker man and stuffing Mutton in it whilst we storm the Council House we must be somehow pro-ACL? As we have stated countless times there is fault on both sides and they need to come together and sort it out.

You are right and wrong - however the Trust was born well before SISU ever even dreamed of coming to Coventry so it certainly wasn't formed on an anti-SISU platform, however the re-energizing of the Trust was by some people who had been part of the Save our City campaign. As with any campaign there are various opinions within it some more radical than others and the less "militant" joined the Trust. All the Trust wants is what is best for the fans (or at least its members before anyone gets too uptight) and that is an end to this dispute.

LarryGrayson · Mar 11, 2013

hill83 said:
Yes it does. Because I am fucking sick of it. The trust was formed on an anti Sisu bias. I'm not anti or pro, but the trust come across as anti. So I'm well within my rights to having a fucking go if I fucking want to.

how do you say there idiots in a neutered way lol

theferret · Mar 11, 2013

Re the trust's aims.

All wishy-washy nonsense.

At this time, the biggest threat to the survival of our football club are the legal proceedings instigated by ACL.

Where is the public condemnation of that? Shouldn't you be urging ACL (with suitably strong language) to halt these proceedings with immediate effect. Perhaps you have and I have missed it.

These utopian aims are all well and good, but shouldn't an organisation that claims to represent the supporters be fighting tooth and nail to save this football club from dying? It is happening, before our very eyes and nobody seems willing to do fuck all to stop it.

I'll tell you what I think, I believe that actually deep down, the idea of the club being liquidated has some appeal to senior trust members because they know that when the process of starting a new phoenix club begins, they'll be right there in the middle of it pulling strings. Self-interest? Perhaps I'm being a little too cynical.

Sky Blue Spud · Mar 11, 2013

coundonskyblue said:
Last accounts filed showed the club made a loss of £6.7m.

Since then the club has been relegated and attendences have fallen by around 5k.

What makes you believe the club has broke even this year?

I thought that I'd read that the break even for this season was 11k average. Anyone know what the actual average attendance is to date?

Grendel · Mar 11, 2013

ashbyjan said:
So because we aren't advocating building a rotund wicker man and stuffing Mutton in it whilst we storm the Council House we must be somehow pro-ACL? As we have stated countless times there is fault on both sides and they need to come together and sort it out.

You are right and wrong - however the Trust was born well before SISU ever even dreamed of coming to Coventry so it certainly wasn't formed on an anti-SISU platform, however the re-energizing of the Trust was by some people who had been part of the Save our City campaign. As with any campaign there are various opinions within it some more radical than others and the less "militant" joined the Trust. All the Trust wants is what is best for the fans (or at least its members before anyone gets too uptight) and that is an end to this dispute.

So to repeat the question;

I assume you have bothered to look at other councils and the arrangements they have with clubs as sitting tenants. Tell me which in the last decade in your research have have had a worse deal than us?

hill83 · Mar 11, 2013

ashbyjan said:
So because we aren't advocating building a rotund wicker man and stuffing Mutton in it whilst we storm the Council House we must be somehow pro-ACL? As we have stated countless times there is fault on both sides and they need to come together and sort it out.

You are right and wrong - however the Trust was born well before SISU ever even dreamed of coming to Coventry so it certainly wasn't formed on an anti-SISU platform, however the re-energizing of the Trust was by some people who had been part of the Save our City campaign. As with any campaign there are various opinions within it some more radical than others and the less "militant" joined the Trust. All the Trust wants is what is best for the fans (or at least its members before anyone gets too uptight) and that is an end to this dispute.

But what's best for the fans is a club to support, or all this this is futile.

Simple as that.

MichaelCCFC · Mar 11, 2013

hill83 said:
Yes it does. Because I am fucking sick of it. The trust was formed on an anti Sisu bias. I'm not anti or pro, but the trust come across as anti. So I'm well within my rights to having a fucking go if I fucking want to.

Hill, I have just sent out a message to all Trust members setting out what has been done recently and what we are advocating and reflects, along with the new aims (which I've now edited) the Trust's complete independence. If there is anything in my email to members or the aims with which you disagree, let me know

torchomatic · Mar 11, 2013

Mmm...if you ran a poll on here with "Which side is Jan on? ACL or SISU", I think 100% would tick the ACL box.

It's about being independent and wanting the best for the Club. You certainly don't come across as independent and not wanting our current custodians to get a slice of the stadium - by writing to Mutton - shows that you certainly don't want the best for the club. You just want SISU out, whatever the consequences are.

ashbyjan said:
So because we aren't advocating building a rotund wicker man and stuffing Mutton in it whilst we storm the Council House we must be somehow pro-ACL? As we have stated countless times there is fault on both sides and they need to come together and sort it out. .

ashbyjan · Mar 11, 2013

hill83 said:
But what's best for the fans is a club to support, or all this this is futile.

Simple as that.

Fully agree with that and anything that can avoid admin or liquidation has to be a better option - that is why we are pushing for mediation / arbitration to get it sorted. We have got the agreement of eminent football finance expert Dr John Beech, from Warwick University, who has agreed to do it - just have to get the two sides to agree to it as well!

hill83 · Mar 11, 2013

MichaelCCFC said:
Hill, I have just sent out a message to all Trust members setting out what has been done recently and what we are advocating and reflects, along with the new aims (which I've now edited) the Trust's complete independence. If there is anything in my email to members or the aims with which you disagree, let me know

Can't argue with that email. Thanks

Bluegloucester · Mar 11, 2013

ashbyjan said:
Fully agree with that and anything that can avoid admin or liquidation has to be a better option - that is why we are pushing for mediation / arbitration to get it sorted. We have got the agreement of eminent football finance expert Dr John Beech, from Warwick University, who has agreed to do it - just have to get the two sides to agree to it as well!

Mediation will not work, we need arbitration

ashbyjan · Mar 11, 2013

torchomatic said:
Mmm...if you ran a poll on here with "Which side is Jan on? ACL or SISU", I think 100% would tick the ACL box.

It's about being independent and wanting the best for the Club. You certainly don't come across as independent and not wanting our current custodians to get a slice of the stadium - by writing to Mutton - shows that you certainly don't want the best for the club. You just want SISU out, whatever the consequences are.

Writing to Mutton? Please explain when we wrote to Mutton and what we wrote to Mutton

Sky Blue Pete · Mar 11, 2013

Grendel said:
To get this disgusting council to start to think of the community asset they claim to support rather than play God?

Not gonna happen

MFDoom · Mar 11, 2013

Seriously, fuck the Trust. Bunch of amateurs well out of their depth.

Grendel · Mar 11, 2013

Sky Blue Pete said:
Not gonna happen

Only because the fans do not want it.

At Hull, Doncaster etc. Mutton would indeed have his appointment with the Whicker Man.

oakey · Mar 11, 2013

One can be independent and listen objectively to arguments on both sides of an issue. Then you can come down in favour of one side. It is what judges and juries the world over practise.
Maybe Jan and the Trust have done that and drawn very logical conclusions.
That is not evidence of bias but informed judgement.

ccfctommy · Mar 11, 2013

MichaelCCFC said:
Hill, I have just sent out a message to all Trust members setting out what has been done recently and what we are advocating and reflects, along with the new aims (which I've now edited) the Trust's complete independence. If there is anything in my email to members or the aims with which you disagree, let me know

Hi Michael, am I on your mailing list? I am a member (I don't have a card or anything) but signed up when it started up again.

torchomatic · Mar 11, 2013

Apologies if I've tarred you with the same brush as others. There was a thread where people on here were writing to Mutton asking him not to sell to SISU, I thought you were one of them. As I said, apologies if I was incorrect.

ashbyjan said:
Writing to Mutton? Please explain when we wrote to Mutton and what we wrote to Mutton

hill83 · Mar 11, 2013

ashbyjan said:
Writing to Mutton? Please explain when we wrote to Mutton and what we wrote to Mutton

When are you 'we' or 'you' because it isn't clear.

DazzleTommyDazzle · Mar 11, 2013

torchomatic said:
Mmm...if you ran a poll on here with "Which side is Jan on? ACL or SISU", I think 100% would tick the ACL box. .

Disagree. I'd say that Jan was pro CCFC.

Sky Blue Pete · Mar 11, 2013

Grendel said:
If all the fans were 100% united with the club as was the case at hull, Doncaster etc we would get this resolved.

I don't think that's right but say that's true what would you suggest?

Grendel · Mar 11, 2013

oakey said:
One can be independent and listen objectively to arguments on both sides of an issue. Then you can come down in favour of one side. It is what judges and juries the world over practise.
Maybe Jan and the Trust have done that and drawn very logical conclusions.
That is not evidence of bias but informed judgement.

You can only be on the clubs side -- otherwise you are failing in your declared mission statement.

oakey · Mar 11, 2013

I also feel Jan and the trust try hard to be objective. At least they don't present false stats or opinions as facts.

torchomatic · Mar 11, 2013

Found one of the letters to Mutton, not written by Jan, I hasten to add:

I am concerned by recent reports that Coventry City FC are currently in negotiations with the owners of the Ricoh Arena with a veiw to buy a share in AC. ,As a Coventry City supporter and a Coventry Council Taxpayer I am very much against the Sisu having any involvement in ownership or running of the Ricoh arena or or the ACL company.

Since the current owners Sisu took over the Club 5 years ago its position has gone from bad to worse both on and off the field. I have neither seen or heard anything from Sisu that convinces me they would run ACL any differently to how they have run the Football Club.

In fact I would fully expect that the Ricoh Arena would end up in the same position as Coventry City Football Club with all assets either mortgaged or borrowed against with another of their sister companies ie AVRO holding a debenture against the arena. All in the name of a secret hedge fund ensuring they get a return on their bad investment, at a sizable cost to the citizens of Coventry.

I implore you as a fellow supporter and a Coventry citizen to do the right thing for our City and not allow these people any form of ownership over this wonderful Coventry asset.

If Sisu are allowed any ownership of the Ricoh Arena it will be the legacy that YOU will always be remembered for by the people of this City

ashbyjan · Mar 11, 2013

To be honest I wasn't sure if I was being accused of writing to Mutton or the Trust were but in either case neither I as an individual or the Trust as a collective body wrote to Mutton about not selling the Ricoh to SISU. I do try to keep it clear when its my own opinions or when its Trust policy etc - if its to do with SISU ACL etc then its Trust policy, if its whether Dunn is crap and Sheff has been dire since coming back then thats my personal opinion.

oakey · Mar 11, 2013

Grendel said:
You can only be on the clubs side -- otherwise you are failing in your declared mission statement.

We support CCFC not SISU or ACL or CCC. You seem to equate SISU with CCFC which is making you Myopic.

Grendel · Mar 11, 2013

oakey said:
We support CCFC not SISU or ACL or CCC. You seem to equate SISU with CCFC which is making you Myopic.

No it makes me realistic not idealistic or just plain stupid.

MichaelCCFC · Mar 11, 2013

The email I just sent to Trust members ended with 'O for the days when supporting City was about 11 players and not a lot else...' and like most people I am sick to death of all the off the field stuff and never ending financial problems. And it's the desire to have a team to support that was the starting point for supporters' Trusts at Swansea and Pompey and is the fundamental reason for having the Sky Blue Trust (as opposed to people on here who seem more interested in supporting or slating acl/council/sisu)

SISU say they may "get out of town" next week (4 Viewers)

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