Sisu to build new relationships with council and residents (1 Viewer)

duffer · Jun 16, 2014

lordsummerisle said:
Yep, would ACL have let them carry on playing on there indefinitely without paying rent?

In fairness ACL let CCFC play there indefinitely without paying rent. As we've seen the sanction for not paying the rent was to go to court for a third party debt order, and then administration, this rather than cancelling the lease and licence to play. Neither of those of necessity forced the club out of the Ricoh; the club chose to leave, and the administrator disclaimed the lease rather than the landlord. In fact, I seem to recall that ACL offered a "rent-free" deal whilst the club remained in administration, for what that's worth.

There was always an option to pay or possibly renegotiate the rent and resolve the dispute, but as we've seen it seems SISU chose not to take that up, and took the club to Northampton. Personally I can't see that ACL forced the club to leave or ever threatened to lock the doors, but clearly they sought to claim through legal process a legal debt.

I'm not quite sure how the damages thing will play out, even if the JR is upheld. That SISU refused to pay the rent is surely indisputable, and it's central to the damage they've done to their own business. No one could force them to take that path.

Astute · Jun 16, 2014

torchomatic said:
I'll translate for others:

If SISU fuck the Club over then that's bad. If CCC fuck the Club over, well, that's OK.

SISU have fucked our club over. Yet some still want the Ricoh handed over to them.

We all know that ACL/CCC want a deal to be made. Enough offers have been made. But all we have had from SISU is excuses on why they haven't accepted any of them. And we all know our club would be much better off if any of them were accepted. Us supporters would be much better off as well.

I am yet to see what CCC have done that is so wrong to get all the shit that some put their way. I don't count not handing the Ricoh over to SISU as being bad. IMHO the Ricoh is much safer being owned by CCC than SISU for the future of our club. SO CCC might lose the JR. If they do it will be because of a technicality than outright wrongdoing like SISU have done. Even the judge can clearly see what the SISU plan is.

I want Higgs to get money back. They are a charity no matter what anyone says. They had a judge that ruled they had done nothing wrong. CCC are different. They should be made to pay if they can be shown to have done wrong. But I don't count a technicality as doing so. All sides are to blame. But one side is much more than the others to blame.

shmmeee · Jun 16, 2014

torchomatic said:
I'll translate for others:

If SISU fuck the Club over then that's bad. If CCC fuck the Club over, well, that's OK.

Not OK, but as they have no responsibility to the club (unlike it's owners) I'd say it's not as bad.

You expect others to fuck you over, you don't expect your owners to.

(BTW: I'm not sure proving the loan didn't follow process is proving that CCC were "fucking the club over")

italiahorse · Jun 16, 2014

spider_ricoh said:
But CCC are not there to care about the fans, that's not their role. SISU own CCFC, it's up to them to look after the fans' interests.

Clearly SISU strategy will be to get the court to define a big damages bill, then go to the council and say "rather than us forcing you to pay taxpayers' money on paying damages to a hedge fund and having to cut public services somewhere, we'll accept ownership of the Ricoh instead of cash" - then, BAG... City back at the Ricoh with Sisu as owners and receiving the revenue streams.

So if CCC loose you think that Sisu should be given the £100M+ stadium complex ???

CCFC PimpRail · Jun 16, 2014

italiahorse said:
So if CCC loose you think that Sisu should be given the £100M+ stadium complex ???

It's about time they took the bloody badge off it, found another use, and rearranged the seats to say "FUCK OFF SISU". How many months is it before they said the new stadium would be ready....?

italiahorse · Jun 16, 2014

CCFC PimpRail said:
It's about time they took the bloody badge off it, found another use, and rearranged the seats to say "FUCK OFF SISU". How many months is it before they said the new stadium would be ready....?

If the badge comes off we are never going back. To me its a sign that ACL/CCC want us back.

CCFC PimpRail · Jun 16, 2014

italiahorse said:
If the badge comes off we are never going back. To me its a sign that ACL/CCC want us back.

And SISU know that, which is why they think they have the upper hand. But would you rather be a loss making football club without a ground, or a semi-profitable multi use sports and leisure venue....?

Who is to say the financial fair play rules won't change again, SISU were obviously eyeing up the profit to be made from extra events at the Ricoh and are obviously thinking of other money making events at their mythical new gaff, but what happens when revenues can only come from direct club activities, as some could claim to be benefitting from vague links to parent companies....

turlykerd · Jun 16, 2014

AFCCOVENTRY said:
Taxpayers could be hit with a bill for millions of pounds if the owners of the Sky Blues have successfully proved their case at a recent judicial review.
Supporters will have to wait at least two weeks before Justice Hickinbottom passes down his judgment following a three-day hearing at Birmingham High Court to determine whether a £14.4million Coventry City Council loan to Ricoh Arena operators ACL amounted to unlawful state aid.
Court documents show that, if successful in proving the loan was contrary to European law, Sisu have requested the judge orders another hearing to allow the club to seek damages from Coventry City Council.
That hearing would allow Sisu to set out the losses it believes it has suffered as a result of the council loan with a view to recovering them from the authority.
Those costs would likely include any loss of commercial sponsorship, the cost of the rent at Sixfields and any additional shortfall of income suffered as a result of the move to play ‘home’ fixtures 35-miles away in Northampton.
With attendances plummeting from an average of 10,900 at the Ricoh Arena to 2,348 at Sixfields this season the total bill is likely to run into millions of pounds.
Sisu has also asked the judge to order ACL to repay the loan to the council and a further payment equal to any commercial interest rate the judge believes should have been paid from the date of the loan to when it is recovered.
They have also sought a “prohibition order” in order to prevent the council from: “taking further actions to injure the claimant’s interests in the club and, specifically, from seeking to remove the claimants as owners of the club.”
During the hearing Sisu’s legal team asserted the loan was part of a plan to remove Sisu as owners of Coventry City.
However, the council’s legal team argued the club had only brought about the recent legal action in an attempt to distress ACL and gain control of the Ricoh Arena.
An order to repay £14.4million and attempt to source an alternative stream of funding would likely present significant business challenges to ACL.
If the council successfully defends the claim, the loan to ACL will remain in place and the company will continue to trade as normal.
Justice Hickinbottom will pass down his judgement at Birmingham High Court during the week commencing June 30.

i genuinely see none of " Sisu to build new relationships with council and residents" as the post headline suggests

all i see is"Sisu to recover as much as possible and try to force ccc to handover the ricoh for free "

no news then

shmmeee · Jun 16, 2014

CCFC PimpRail said:
And SISU know that, which is why they think they have the upper hand. But would you rather be a loss making football club without a ground, or a semi-profitable multi use sports and leisure venue....?

Who is to say the financial fair play rules won't change again, SISU were obviously eyeing up the profit to be made from extra events at the Ricoh and are obviously thinking of other money making events at their mythical new gaff, but what happens when revenues can only come from direct club activities, as some could claim to be benefitting from vague links to parent companies....

I wondered this. The ever knowledgable OSB reckons that if you make money by renting out the ground it's football income as it's a football ground. Makes sense to me. Not sure if you could claim the casino and hotel are part of the ground for those purposes, but I could see Sisu arguing it if it came to it.

spider_ricoh · Jun 16, 2014

turlykerd said:
i genuinely see none of " Sisu to build new relationships with council and residents" as the post headline suggests

all i see is"Sisu to recover as much as possible and try to force ccc to handover the ricoh for free "

no news then

Exactly

CCFC PimpRail · Jun 16, 2014

shmmeee said:
I wondered this. The ever knowledgable OSB reckons that if you make money by renting out the ground it's football income as it's a football ground. Makes sense to me. Not sure if you could claim the casino and hotel are part of the ground for those purposes, but I could see Sisu arguing it if it came to it.

I'm glad somebody else is on the same wavelength. I was thinking of, for example, some turds like "opium entertainment" making shed loads of money from exploiting a national comic or Kate Bush on tour, and claiming that as profit for the venue and therefore the club. But even considering non-linked activities on the same site such as the Casino is a good example.

All in, it just shows that Football is a crap business to be in...

Grendel · Jun 16, 2014

CCFC PimpRail said:
I'm glad somebody else is on the same wavelength. I was thinking of, for example, some turds like "opium entertainment" making shed loads of money from exploiting a national comic or Kate Bush on tour, and claiming that as profit for the venue and therefore the club. But even considering non-linked activities on the same site such as the Casino is a good example.

All in, it just shows that Football is a crap business to be in...

Don't worry - while ACL are running the show the only Bush on display is from some sad cow who wants to run across the pitch naked in a streakathon. The taxpayer is well served by such professionalism running the stadium,

James Smith · Jun 16, 2014

lordsummerisle said:
Wouldn't have thought it would have anything to do with YB really.

Though the fact that the Council QC said that YB were willing to loan money to ACL at the time rather damages the CCC case that they had to loan ACL the money to "protect their asset".

Well yeah depending on the interest rate the YB were thinking of charging for that amount. If they were along the lines of wonga rates......

robbiethemole · Jun 16, 2014

[h=2]

Denial on talks[/h]

With all the local councils saying no concrete talks are happening, is this all bluff and bluster to keep the FL quiet. The scenario which I think will play out is that SISU are banking everything on the JR, and if,God forbid, they win I can see massive compensation claims going in against CCC. The losses of being "forced" to quit the Ricoh, ie loss of ticket revenue, the cost of hiring Sixfields and all the policing and stewarding, plus anything else they can think off, will suddenly equate to the actual value of the Ricoh and the proposal will come.................give us the Ricoh and we will drop all claims. This is standard business practice.

dated 9/1/14............................................... does this make me a clairvoyant then????

italiahorse · Jun 16, 2014

Grendel said:
Don't worry - while ACL are running the show the only Bush on display is from some sad cow who wants to run across the pitch naked in a streakathon. The taxpayer is well served by such professionalism running the stadium,

So do you want ACL/CCC to move on, by turning the stadium into something more profitable like a shopping mall?

They could be really 'professional' and make a bigger profit by telling CCC/CCFC finally to piss off and make room for a radical redevelopment.
Love it how you sit there and take the piss out of a business that is clearly waiting for Sisu to exhaust their hedge fund toolbox before they carry on with a sensible business.
What's the point?

Spagbol · Jun 16, 2014

Question: were SISU/ccfc forced to quit or did they refuse to pay rent and relocated. The latter I think, so how can they then claim damages if they win, because they decided to move and we're not forced out. God when will this end??

Skyblueweeman · Jun 16, 2014

Question: If you (eventually) realised that your landlord was horrendously overcharging you on a property that you were adding considerable value to, would you relocate?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Skyblueweeman · Jun 16, 2014

And I'm not saying it's right...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Gentleman · Jun 16, 2014

Grendel said:
Don't worry - while ACL are running the show the only Bush on display is from some sad cow who wants to run across the pitch naked in a streakathon. The taxpayer is well served by such professionalism running the stadium,

That's quite a good one Grendel, even for you but whether you like it or not (me thinks you don't), ACL can run their business anyway they see fit because after all, money talks.

CCFC PimpRail · Jun 16, 2014

Skyblueweeman said:
Question: If you (eventually) realised that your landlord was horrendously overcharging you on a property that you were adding considerable value to, would you relocate?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The clue is in the second word in "Rent Agreement". CCFC had enough support to be at least a solid Championship side, which fell away with the current owners in charge. The fact that the previous order were paying 1 mil for Highfield Rd and chose the fixed fee instead of a sliding scale proves over optimism and the fact that SISU either didn't do their homework, or weren't planning to be in it for the long haul.

Even 1.2 p.a. on a cheap 25 mil build is less than 5% return, which is crap by commercial property standards.

Como · Jun 17, 2014

There would need to be a shown loss resulting from the loan agreement, this was all going down the toilet well before then.

So if CCC had not made the loan what would have happened. An awful lot has happened since then most of it that has no obvious connection with any CCC loan.

turlykerd · Jun 17, 2014

Grendel said:
Don't worry - while ACL are running the show the only Bush on display is from some sad cow who wants to run across the pitch naked in a streakathon. The taxpayer is well served by such professionalism running the stadium,

If only them streakers took a little time on personal hygiene , it would make it all a little more enjoyable, and then the tv cameras would follow them too...

I hear the streaker at the last psg game actually lost the ball in her ginormous Francoise bush and the game was halted for several minutes

Astute · Jun 17, 2014

Skyblueweeman said:
Question: If you (eventually) realised that your landlord was horrendously overcharging you on a property that you were adding considerable value to, would you relocate?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If there is a legally binding contract in place and you decide that you don't want to pay it anymore what can you do? You can do it the SISU way. Bit drastic, but it can be done.

SISU were the ones that moved our club. Forget about us supporters for now. We don't count. Everyone knew that it would be financially against what was best. But they made that choice. How can they blame others for the financial losses they made from making the decision that they did? They were not forced to move out of the Ricoh. But even if they were it would have been because of the law and them not paying a legally binding contract. Maybe this is what they were hoping for. The Ricoh was built for our football club to play football in. SISU might well have devalued the arena by taking our football club away, but can you say that they have devalued the hotel or casino parts by much in doing so?

You make your own choices in life. It is hard to blame others for the choices that you make.

Grendel · Jun 17, 2014

italiahorse said:
So do you want ACL/CCC to move on, by turning the stadium into something more profitable like a shopping mall?

They could be really 'professional' and make a bigger profit by telling CCC/CCFC finally to piss off and make room for a radical redevelopment.
Love it how you sit there and take the piss out of a business that is clearly waiting for Sisu to exhaust their hedge fund toolbox before they carry on with a sensible business.
What's the point?

A shopping mall. Lol. Even by your standards that's hilarious.

Kingokings204 · Jun 17, 2014

Skyblueweeman said:
Question: If you (eventually) realised that your landlord was horrendously overcharging you on a property that you were adding considerable value to, would you relocate?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's a legally binding contract weeman. End of the debate really isn't it. It's law. Don't you remember we all know the rent was too high including ACL. A rent reduction was offered last season numerous times. 400k being he most noted so a drop of 800k which is hefty to say the least. If you go further then wernt they offered 150k for 10 years on Eve of liquidation.

So no I wouldn't relocate if I was being overcharged and then offered between 800k-1mk reduced rent per annum to stay.

400k was agreed on jan 2013 and shook on by Tim fisher and mark labovitch so couldn't of been too bad.

letsallsingtogether · Jun 17, 2014

Why? They turned the Daimler plant into houses never thought that would happen but hey that's business.....

There is always something that it can be used for once they are 100% sure City aren't coming back. You for one will be happy then, I am afraid I will be lost to City forever, I hope you enjoy the new shed and support the local council who allow them to build it? But some how doubt ether will happen.
Really need to build it in the middle of meriden that way you could support the local council plus it will piss off the Brummies who make up most of that back water region.

Grendel said:
A shopping mall. Lol. Even by your standards that's hilarious.

torchomatic · Jun 17, 2014

They wouldn't do that for many reasons, two obvious ones being:

1. It's a community asset don't forget which is close to the hearts of all people from Coventry
2. It is very profitable and has a bright future. Ann said so.

letsallsingtogether said:
Why? They turned the Daimler plant into houses never thought that would happen but hey that's business.....

wingy · Jun 17, 2014

There Is very little that can be built where the Stadium Stands due to residual contamination ,certainly not suitable for habitation.

Kingokings204 · Jun 17, 2014

The arena will always exist as it can be nothing else the surrounding area can be developed and where the money is. Hey fisher said so. So it's gospel remember.

torchomatic · Jun 17, 2014

And remember that the council thought the redevelopment of the surrounding area was down to the club too.

Kingokings204 said:
The arena will always exist as it can be nothing else the surrounding area can be developed and where the money is. Hey fisher said so. So it's gospel remember.

Sisu to build new relationships with council and residents (1 Viewer)

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency