SISU's achievements in 5 years (1 Viewer)

dongonzalos · Apr 11, 2012

December 14th 2007 SISU take over Coventry saving us from administration by 20 minutes.

They promise resources of 20 million.

At that point we had debts of 37 million.

At the time we were 14th in the table.

Administration at that point would have put us in the relegation places 4 points from safety.

At that point we did not own our own stadium we were having to sell our best players.

So 5 years on we are in the same league position, we would have been in if we had gone into administration.

The debts are allegedly 38 million so we are actually a million pounds more in debt since SISU saved the day.

We still do not own our own stadium and we are still having to sell our best players.

Unless there is something I do not understand about administration
(which I am sure there are lots)

Would we have been better off if SISU did not save the day. Would we now be debt free is that the way it works?

Would the billionaire investor who was interested in the club at the same time as SISU have picked the club up and started off debt free? Or if not him some other investor.

Would other owners who buy the club after administration be prepared to not hide their identity and hence be trusted by the council and be able to acquire the stadium?

coundonskyblue · Apr 11, 2012

We would still have had some of the debt, as whoever would have bought the club instead of Sisu would have had to agree to pay the creditors a certain amout of pennies in the pound.

The rest of what you say I totally agree with.

dongonzalos · Apr 11, 2012

coundonskyblue said:
We would still have had some of the debt, as whoever would have bought the club instead of Sisu would have had to agree to pay the creditors a certain amout of pennies in the pound.

The rest of what you say I totally agree with.

Any idea how much?

Would a lot of the debts have to be written off and Would they have got the club with less debts than SISU inherited?

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Apr 11, 2012

Do you know, in the October before the takeover, so 5 to 6 weeks before, we played humble Colchester at home. The gate? 23,431. In the same season, we got 24K for the West Ham Carling Cup game, and over 28K when we played West Brom in the FA Cup.

And now SISU wonder why they can't pay the rent...

Grendel · Apr 11, 2012

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Do you know, in the October before the takeover, so 5 to 6 weeks before, we played humble Colchester at home. The gate? 23,431. In the same season, we got 24K for the West Ham Carling Cup game, and over 28K when we played West Brom in the FA Cup.

And now SISU wonder why they can't pay the rent...

And even with those gates we were £30 million plus in debt

dongonzalos · Apr 11, 2012

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Do you know, in the October before the takeover, so 5 to 6 weeks before, we played humble Colchester at home. The gate? 23,431. In the same season, we got 24K for the West Ham Carling Cup game, and over 28K when we played West Brom in the FA Cup.

And now SISU wonder why they can't pay the rent...

Wow 23k against Colchester. You give this club a little hope, a run of good results, some success and I genuinely believe 25k attendances would become the norm not one off's.

coundonskyblue · Apr 11, 2012

dongonzalos said:
Any idea how much?

Would a lot of the debts have to be written off and Would they have got the club with less debts than SISU inherited?

When Pompey came out of admin in 2010 their CVA terms were they pay back 20p in the £1, so £37m would mean the new owners would have had to pay out around £7.5m to clear outstanding debts.

However as you point out some debts may have been written off (owed to previous directors etc), but I would only be guessing at how much that would be.

I would imagine they would have been able to get the club with far less debt, infact I remember Ranson saying at the time they could have let the club go under and got it much cheaper.

Brighton Sky Blue · Apr 11, 2012

My understanding is that the club would have ceased to exist, let alone enter administration.

coundonskyblue · Apr 11, 2012

kduffy said:
And even with those gates we were £30 million plus in debt

I remember at the time Paul Fletcher saying the club need attendences of 35k to make any money.

coundonskyblue · Apr 11, 2012

Brighton Sky Blue said:
My understanding is that the club would have ceased to exist, let alone enter administration.

Why would we have been the first club in the higher divisions in about 90 years to disappear?

dongonzalos · Apr 11, 2012

kduffy said:
And even with those gates we were £30 million plus in debt

Unfortunately I imagine they were the rare exceptions not the norm. Success would lead to it been the norm though.

However owning our own stadium is the key and the council will never budge on that whilst SISU are at the helm. It is very clear the clubs interests are not in their minds so the council can never sell to them.

We genuinely do need them to go if we are ever to get into a situation where we can be financially stable.

Without owning the stadium we are screwed.

You need a combination of success and owning at least half the stadium SISU can not deliver either of these key elements

oldskyblue58 · Apr 11, 2012

It never made much sense to me that SISU took on debt etc rather than buy the club out of administration. I can only assume it was to keep the club in the division and to keep the Ricoh option live. But then to let the whole thing drift because it wasnt properly controlled or funded I find pretty much astounding - always have. Clearly being rich or having access to major funds does not make you good in business. I agree with cost cutting, I agree with proper control ......... but why wait 4 years to do it then go too far the other way, where was the investment plan that augmented getting a viable business...... it all seems to be ad hoc knee jerk stuff..... no clear thought or objectives, no clarity as to why money was being spent. There was a real opportunity 5 years ago to really make a difference and those in charge (SISU but not only) had no real idea what they were doing or how or why.

Another in the long line of owners that have crucified this club. We deserve better, much better!

coundonskyblue · Apr 11, 2012

oldskyblue58 said:
It never made much sense to me that SISU took on debt etc rather than buy the club out of administration. I can only assume it was to keep the club in the division and to keep the Ricoh option live. But then to let the whole thing drift because it wasnt properly controlled or funded I find pretty much astounding - always have. Clearly being rich or having access to major funds does not make you good in business. I agree with cost cutting, I agree with proper control ......... but why wait 4 years to do it then go too far the other way, where was the investment plan that augmented getting a viable business...... it all seems to be ad hoc knee jerk stuff..... no clear thought or objectives, no clarity as to why money was being spent. There was a real opportunity 5 years ago to really make a difference and those in charge (SISU but not only) had no real idea what they were doing or how or why.

Another in the long line of owners that have crucified this club. We deserve better, much better!

Think we would have all being more accepting of the cost cutting in 2007/08 as well. We had just nearly gone under, had Sisu come in and said no money for players but we're going to sort out all the off field problems (Stadium, debt) then I would have supported that.

Brighton Sky Blue · Apr 11, 2012

coundonskyblue said:
Why would we have been the first club in the higher divisions in about 90 years to disappear?

For the same reasons that we are on the precipice for now.

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Apr 11, 2012

kduffy said:
And even with those gates we were £30 million plus in debt

That was a historical legacy. SISU promised to wipe the slate clean and a brand new dawn. Whichever way you view it, they've buggered it up to Biblical proportions

dongonzalos · Apr 11, 2012

coundonskyblue said:
I remember at the time Paul Fletcher saying the club need attendences of 35k to make any money.

Bloody hell but 25-27 k will still have any impact on slowing the rise of the debts.

7.5 million debts would have been far more manageable

If we dont have to seize to exist then I have to say administration, relegation and no SISU suddenly sounds tempting.

A small chance of a new owner and future success and maybe getting half the stadium.

I honestly think I would prefer that to staying up keeping SISU, status quo then delaying the inevitable relegation next season with 40 million plus debts and SISU still hanging around till we drop to division 3.

coundonskyblue · Apr 11, 2012

Brighton Sky Blue said:
For the same reasons that we are on the precipice for now.

How are we different to any other club in financial trouble?

coundonskyblue · Apr 11, 2012

dongonzalos said:
Bloody hell but 25-27 k will still have any impact on slowing the rise of the debts.

7.5 million debts would have been far more manageable

If we dont have to seize to exist then I have to say administration, relegation and no SISU suddenly sounds tempting.

A small chance of a new owner and future success and maybe getting half the stadium.

I honestly think I would prefer that to staying up keeping SISU, status quo then delaying the inevitable relegation next season with 40 million plus debts and SISU still hanging around till we drop to division 3.

In fairness I think with costs being lower now the club would make money on about 25k

Brighton Sky Blue · Apr 11, 2012

coundonskyblue said:
How are we different to any other club in financial trouble?

See OSB's threads in the financial sub forum-it'll save us time!

coundonskyblue · Apr 11, 2012

Brighton Sky Blue said:
See OSB's threads in the financial sub forum-it'll save us time!

Can't be bothered, I'm depressed enough as it is!

oldskyblue58 · Apr 11, 2012

Ok I know its easier looking in and saying what should be done - its far harder when you are in the middle of it. BUT there are plenty of people here (let alone other sites) that could see what was needed from day 1. Has to beg the question why the likes of SISU and RR thought they knew better when we could all see what the problems were. 5 years ago was an opportunity to put the club on the best footing financially it has ever been on but no one had the drive and balls to see it through. We had to slash the wages, as CSB said we would have gone with that as fans if we knew the purpose, we could have brought our youth on, we could have bought some of the income streams, we could have at least broken even but had the fans onside.......... instead we did all the things that got SISU here in the first place, overspent, bought in rubbish, let the academy wither for a while, alienated the fans, focussed on buying the stadium which was a ridiculous fantasy in the cold light of day. So is it arrogance,clueless, lack of knowledge, stupidity, negligent or verging on criminal what has been done to our club ?

arogant clueless stupidity i reckon by all involved. If we get through this we cannot approach things in the same way, make the same old mistakes and decisions.......... it doesnt work .......... how many damn times do we need to keep proving that!!!!!

ccfc2011 · Apr 11, 2012

We can't blame sisu for everything

Godiva · Apr 11, 2012

ccfc2011 said:
We can't blame sisu for everything

Of course we can - they are ahedge fund and we all know how hedge funds and other dodgy investors created the financial crisis that led to many fans losing a part of the family's income so they have to cut down costs which meant fewer fans through the gates at the Ricoh and less income than budgeted to the club ultimately leading to failure of Ransons plan for getting the club forward and instead created a downward spiral where cost cutting always were a just too little and too late so that at one point there were no more money left to invest and still too little money coming in and yet more costs needed to be cut leaving the club unable to hold on to the best players and have to replace them with raw acadamy talent who surprisingly almost all rose to the occasion and made the fans wonder how a 17yr old could play better and more consistantly on a meager wage compared to his 27yr old and much more experienced teammate on exorbitant wages and even with the youngest team in the division they are not yet certain for relagation although the referees all season have given everything to the opposition and on top of that we are probably the team who have dropped more points than any in injury time that sisu have failed to eliminated from the game rules and so a relegation that will mean the club will lose even more and new investors are less likely to feel any kind of attraction to place a bet.
It's all sisu's fault.

Of course

coundonskyblue · Apr 11, 2012

ccfc2011 said:
We can't blame sisu for everything

I don't blame Sisu for everything. However they can be blamed for:

The lies
Lack of business plan
Not understanding Football
Taking a failing business and actually making it worse!
Using emotional blackmail to get supporters shares for free.
Using blackmail against the council, and I suspect the local media.
Appointing an incompotent board who in turn appoint the wrong managers and buy the wrong players.
Selling/allowing to leave on a free the few good players we have.
Not persuing other avenues of income regarding the stadium.
Alienating themselves from the local authority.
Alienating themselves from the supporters.
Using emotional blackmail to get supporters shares for free.

BackRoomRummermill · Apr 11, 2012

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Do you know, in the October before the takeover, so 5 to 6 weeks before, we played humble Colchester at home. The gate? 23,431. In the same season, we got 24K for the West Ham Carling Cup game, and over 28K when we played West Brom in the FA Cup.

And now SISU wonder why they can't pay the rent...

Dont forget the Credit Crunch that hit in mid 2008 so that has effected attendances for sure !!! But I know what you mean

malkitccfc · Apr 11, 2012

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Do you know, in the October before the takeover, so 5 to 6 weeks before, we played humble Colchester at home. The gate? 23,431. In the same season, we got 24K for the West Ham Carling Cup game, and over 28K when we played West Brom in the FA Cup.

And now SISU wonder why they can't pay the rent...

in all fairness, that day we played colchester tickets were discounted, £5 i think i paid that day. And when we played WBA, they brought about 300k fans with them

Nonleagueherewecome · Apr 11, 2012

Godiva said:
Of course we can - they are ahedge fund and we all know how hedge funds and other dodgy investors created the financial crisis that led to many fans losing a part of the family's income so they have to cut down costs which meant fewer fans through the gates at the Ricoh and less income than budgeted to the club ultimately leading to failure of Ransons plan for getting the club forward and instead created a downward spiral where cost cutting always were a just too little and too late so that at one point there were no more money left to invest and still too little money coming in and yet more costs needed to be cut leaving the club unable to hold on to the best players and have to replace them with raw acadamy talent who surprisingly almost all rose to the occasion and made the fans wonder how a 17yr old could play better and more consistantly on a meager wage compared to his 27yr old and much more experienced teammate on exorbitant wages and even with the youngest team in the division they are not yet certain for relagation although the referees all season have given everything to the opposition and on top of that we are probably the team who have dropped more points than any in injury time that sisu have failed to eliminated from the game rules and so a relegation that will mean the club will lose even more and new investors are less likely to feel any kind of attraction to place a bet.
It's all sisu's fault.

Of course

Of course, how blind of us. It's not SISU at all, it's bad refereeing...I feel so stupid for not realising sooner.

Nonleagueherewecome · Apr 11, 2012

malkitccfc said:
in all fairness, that day we played colchester tickets were discounted, £5 i think i paid that day. And when we played WBA, they brought about 300k fans with them

Bloody hell if everyone bought 300,000 away fans, we'd soon pay the rent!

ronan_cov · Apr 11, 2012

In football players come and go, managers come and go, fans come and go.Now its time for SISU to go. They promised funds and players, we have neither.

In a way they saved us but we are no better off and have 1 more million pounds debt.

I personally hate Portsmouth, how many times have they gone into administration? They still have players on over 20 grand a week. Maybe if they cut one of them off the bill they might be alright? no they rely one people taking over them and clearing their debts.

georgehudson · Apr 12, 2012

in my humble opinion sisu have offered a pathetic 0% to forward the aims of CCFC, their dismal attempt at PR amounts to an absolute 0 !!!!!!!!!!
so, as CCFC has a PR guru in mr clarke, what exactly has he done,
the loss of faith, trust, belief, etc., is hard to take,
charlatons of the like of IGWE / DULIEU have done zilch,
so we stare down the proverbial barrel,
is a saviour out there ????????????
PUSB

chiefdave · Apr 12, 2012

For me the 2 biggest mistakes SISU have made are the way they seemed to make a U turn on the initial plan and their PR.

Things did seem to be going in the right direction initially but my feeling is they were expecting crowds to increase and had budgeted on that. When that didn't happen it seems that rather than putting in more cash to see the plan through they decided to start selling players to make up the shortfall. It's at this point they needed some decent PR but we all know how good they've been at that. I could have accepted, even at the point RR left or even at the start of this season, if they'd come out and said there's no money we need to sell players and see how we get on with the kids. If they'd done that they would have had a chance of an 'all in it together' kind of mentality. Instead we've had constant lies and half truths: no stone unturned, contracts agreed, meeting with the council etc etc. It wasn't that long ago we had Ken telling us we'd own the stadium by Xmas now we can't even pay the rent!

lordsummerisle · Apr 12, 2012

dongonzalos said:
Wow 23k against Colchester. You give this club a little hope, a run of good results, some success and I genuinely believe 25k attendances would become the norm not one off's.

Think it was £10 a ticket for that one, International Day or something.

Won 1-0 and it was my 40th Birthday!

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