SISU's Big Chance (2 Viewers)

Samo · Apr 9, 2015

This summer must be the best and possibly last chance for SISU to get it right and finally secure a return on investment. If we stay up and they can persuade TM to stay and have a go, with relatively little investment they have the opportunity to take the club forward to a potentially saleable position. If we go down, I fear the worst. It seems to me that the club is teetering on a knife edge. I hope that JS will recognise that this is the moment.
Is this the most important few months in the club's history? What are your thoughts?

skybluetony176 · Apr 9, 2015

I think you may well have hit the nail squarely on the head.

If she does recognise this what's the chances of her recognising that she has the wrong 2 people at the helm to make this little bit of success happen?

Sky Blue Harry H · Apr 9, 2015

The optimist hopes you are right, the pessimist fears that they sit on the fence with the purse strings pulled tight and spend the summer p*ssing about with the court case, and putting football matters lower down the agenda....................leaving us (again) severely frustrated.

Opportunity knocks..................but will they take it?

Hobo · Apr 9, 2015

We have seen on two previous occasions that a relegation doesn't necessarily kick start a revival. We don't want to learn that lesson for a third time. We have also learned reputations mean nothing.

the club has to be structured and budgeted correctly, money has to be spent wisely. Fans only come back when there is something worth watching and supporting. Put the pride back into Coventry City Football Club, it is time to stop this slide into oblivion.

Samo · Apr 9, 2015

Hobo said:
We have seen on two previous occasions that a relegation doesn't necessarily kick start a revival. We don't want to learn that lesson for a third time. We have also learned
reputations mean nothing.
the club has to be structured and budgeted correctly, money has to be spent wisely. Fans only come back when there is something worth watching and supporting. Put the pride back into Coventry City Football Club, it is time to stop this slide into oblivion.

All very noble...but how?

stupot07 · Apr 9, 2015

Hobo said:
We have seen on two previous occasions that a relegation doesn't necessarily kick start a revival. We don't want to learn that lesson for a third time. We have also learned reputations mean nothing.

the club has to be structured and budgeted correctly, money has to be spent wisely. Fans only come back when there is something worth watching and supporting. Put the pride back into Coventry City Football Club, it is time to stop this slide into oblivion.

Agreed. Even if they 'invest' heavily to get promoted, they aren't going to be able to get a return on their investment, we'll be a lower championship club, with no assets and little access to revenue.

Also I think we can get promoted whilst being frugal.

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Samo · Apr 9, 2015

stupot07 said:
Agreed. Even if they 'invest' heavily to get promoted, they aren't going to be able to get a return on their investment, we'll be a lower championship club, with no assets
and little access to revenue.

Also I think we can get promoted whilst being frugal.

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That's interesting Stupot, what then do you imagine is their plan? Why are they still here?

italiahorse · Apr 9, 2015

stupot07 said:
Agreed. Even if they 'invest' heavily to get promoted, they aren't going to be able to get a return on their investment, we'll be a lower championship club, with no assets and little access to revenue.

Also I think we can get promoted whilst being frugal.

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What keeps you supporting this no hope team ?
Surely if this is never going to get better you will move on ?

edgy · Apr 9, 2015

It's football. You can't just move on. It's an unwritten law. If you can move on, then I suggest you were never that bothered in the first place.

shy_tall_knight · Apr 9, 2015

I'm thinking of moving on, this season, only been to home games at the Ricoh and no away games has sapped my love for the club, but to stay on track I think the SISU strategy of waiting for WASPs to fail or that a billionaire comes in and buys us neither need CCFC to be sucessful

johnwillomagic · Apr 9, 2015

I think our squad woefully underachieved this season hoping that we can just scrape up I think we will then the opportunity to have a mass clearout is available this
season.......doubt many people will poach our star players this year as we have none!!

We are still quite high up in this division salary wise we have just bought and loaned badly.....think TM if he stays on will get this right.
Sides going up from our division this year look stronger then teams going down.......Wigan/Blackpool in disarray financially if Bristol City, Preston and on of either
MK Dons, sheff Utd or Swindon go up and if we stay we can be frugal, and do a lot better promotion is achievable!!

italiahorse · Apr 9, 2015

edgy said:
It's football. You can't just move on. It's an unwritten law. If you can move on, then I suggest you were never that bothered in the first place.

Moaning about something you can't change is pointless.
If it makes you feel better then carry on, but it changes nothing.

I want a team that competes so that's where I'll put my efforts.

stupot07 · Apr 9, 2015

Samo said:
That's interesting Stupot, what then do you imagine is their plan? Why are they still here?

I have absolutely no idea, I wish I did. But as we all keep agreeing there seems to be no plan at all. If we're in agreement that sisu have lent/spend/invested c£40-50m (funding c£6m pa losses), then investing more next season. No ones going to pay anywhere near that for a club with limited revenues and no assets (and without option to buy 50% ACL). Bloody depressing, can't see sisu going any time soon, and can't see any real success other than a promotion followed by relegation back to league one in a season or two.

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stupot07 · Apr 9, 2015

italiahorse said:
Moaning about something you can't change is pointless.
If it makes you feel better then carry on, but it changes nothing.

I want a team that competes so that's where I'll put my efforts.

Yeah, if wasps moved Man City into the ricoh tomorrow, you'd be first in the queue.

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Samo · Apr 9, 2015

stupot07 said:
I have absolutely no idea, I wish I did. But as we all keep agreeing there seems to be no plan at all. If
we're in agreement that sisu have lent/spend/invested c£40-50m (funding c£6m pa losses), then investing more next season. No ones going to pay anywhere near that for a club with limited revenues and no assets (and without option to buy 50% ACL). Bloody depressing, can't see sisu going any time soon, and can't see any real success other than a promotion followed by relegation back to league one in a season or two.

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You believe that a hedge fund has no plan, no strategy?

stupot07 · Apr 9, 2015

Samo said:
You believe that a hedge fund has no plan, no strategy?

They must have a plan, probably one they're making up on the fly, but I have no idea what it is other than potentially breakeven and sitting tight for 3-4 years.

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italiahorse · Apr 9, 2015

stupot07 said:
Yeah, if wasps moved Man City into the ricoh tomorrow, you'd be first in the queue.

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It's not about me.
Why do you have to make stupid statements rather than face reality ?

stupot07 · Apr 9, 2015

italiahorse said:
It's not about me.
Why do you have to make stupid statements rather than face reality ?

What are you on about?

I know the m reality, reality is we're destined to be matchday only tenants to wasps for the medium to long term future, which in turn is going to put a glass ceiling above us and turn is on to a league one-championship side at best for a long term.

It's you that needs to face up to reality. Sisu are destroying our club but regardless of that Wasps aren't the good guys, they will screw us over, it's all about their success no one else's.

P.s. It was your reply that was a stupid statement, I was clearly saying my reasons why a promotion to the championship will not lead to sisu getting a return on their investment, I wasn't moaning about wasp purely stating the act we have no assets. You're the one that brought it down to accusing "moaning about things you can't change is pointless". I wasn't moaning just stating a fact.

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derbyskyblue · Apr 10, 2015

italiahorse said:
Moaning about something you can't change is pointless.
If it makes you feel better then carry on, but it changes nothing.

I want a team that competes so that's where I'll put my efforts.

Are you sure your a cov fan?

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Apr 10, 2015

Samo said:
This summer must be the best and possibly last chance for SISU to get it right and finally secure a return on investment. If we stay up and they can persuade TM to stay and have a go, with relatively little investment they have the opportunity to take the club forward to a potentially saleable position. If we go down, I fear the worst. It seems to me that the club is teetering on a knife edge. I hope that JS will recognise that this is the moment.
Is this the most important few months in the club's history? What are your thoughts?

What makes you think anyone would be buying for anything like what SISU would want?

When SISU purchased we weren't a very attractive prospect then, hence why we ended up with a bunch of people like SISU chancing there arm.

Say we made it back to the championship, we'd still be in an even worse position and less attractive than when SISU purchased because a new owner would not have the carrot of prospective Ricoh ownership dangled before him.

Don't think it really matters now who owns us tbh in the grand scheme of things, if we're run well we can be a club who bounces between L1 and the championship.

Gazolba · Apr 10, 2015

Unfortunately, a leopard does not change its spots. Their stated long-term strategy is for the club to be self-supporting. That rules out any 'investment'. So I expect more of the same whether we stay up or go down. The highest-paid players will go and any saleable academy graduate will go. Next season's team will be around the same or worse than this seasons, and that will depend on who the manager is.

Ian1779 · Apr 10, 2015

Who wouldn't want the club to have a long term strategy of being self supporting?

SISU's execution to get this aim has always been their problem... not the idea behind it.

If people want investors to throw money at the club after SISU go then we will end up here again.

mrtrench · Apr 10, 2015

The only way that SISU has any chance of selling for the amount they desire is if we get into the Premiership. That would involve far more than a few quid this Summer and TM. I don't think they have the stomach for the relatively small investment needed this year - let alone the pot they'd need to be promoted from the Championship. But let's see.

mrtrench · Apr 10, 2015

Gazolba said:
Unfortunately, a leopard does not change its spots. Their stated long-term strategy is for the club to be self-supporting. That rules out any 'investment'. So I expect more of the same whether we stay up or go down. The highest-paid players will go and any saleable academy graduate will go. Next season's team will be around the same or worse than this seasons, and that will depend on who the manager is.

Don't fully agree with this. I expect better next season if TM stays - even with a very limited budget he'll select better players than SP. Agree with the rest.

chiefdave · Apr 10, 2015

What we don't know (well I don't know if it is known) is how much SISU want back. Have they already written off some of their investment. I'm not talking about what has been converted to shares or moved from one balance sheet to another but the figure someone needs to offer them to walk away.

Unfortunately I don't think anyone will offer them anything. As soon as the Ricoh was sold to Wasps any attraction for a potential buyer evaporated. You would only buy now if you were a fan with money to burn.

Hobo · Apr 10, 2015

Samo said:
All very noble...but how?

The first thing is to avoid relegation, which I believe really would be a disaster if not the end of the club or at least going out of league existence.

if we survive a good starting point would be to acquire the services of Ward and Samuels on a Season long loan. We know what we are getting but so would they. TM needs to sell himself and the club to them, a full season of competitive football would bring both on in their careers. The aquisition of those two, I believe would kick start season ticket sales.

That would be the start of our team spine. I also believe TM might get Barton and Fleck back to full creativity given a full pre season. Burge is promising along with several others.

What I want to see from a manager is that spine in the team. Once you see that you know you are going in the right direction. Our younger players of promise will develope more quickly if the side they are being introduced to are a side with confidence and winning side.

Hopefully TM's reputation might bring more options on the loan market, if the parent club have faith and players believe he can develop them.

There are always if's and buts, but someone has to orchestrate the turn around; as Fisher and Waggott have already proved it is beyond their skill set.

Samo · Apr 10, 2015

mrtrench said:
The only way that SISU has any chance of selling for the amount they desire is if we get into the Premiership. That would involve far more than a few quid this Summer and TM. I don't think they have the stomach for the relatively small investment needed this year - let alone the pot they'd need to be promoted from the Championship. But let's see.

So tell me... why are they still here?

stupot07 · Apr 10, 2015

Samo said:
So tell me... why are they still here?

Because they don't want to sell for £1 and an IOU they will never get back?

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Samo · Apr 10, 2015

stupot07 said:
Because they don't want to sell for £1 and an IOU they will never get back?

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So... They won't invest and they won't sell according to most on here, so I ask again... Why are they still here?

Hobo · Apr 10, 2015

Samo said:
So... They won't invest and they won't sell according to most on here, so I ask again... Why are they still here?

We are one of many investments. We are now cash flow positive. Seppala is stubborn and doesn't like been beaten. We might not be the most lucrative investment but potentially the highest profile. If we went bust under them, could it damage their profile? Keeping us in existence might be in their interest. They might sell when someone makes the right offer, they may feel just now isn't quite the right time to sell. Remember they make their money from people investing, not necessarily from the investment. People know the investment is long term and high risk. If other investments are working the investors won't care that much as they are getting a return. High risk investment is normally spread over several port folios.

stupot07 · Apr 10, 2015

Samo said:
So... They won't invest and they won't sell according to most on here, so I ask again... Why are they still here?

As we've a said no one knows. We can only presume to sit tight 3-4 years with the club breaking even and see if wasps fail. If we're breakeven with no/little additional investment, and the best they're gonna get is £1 and an IOU then there's little risk in them keeping the club another 5-10-15 years.

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italiahorse · Apr 10, 2015

derbyskyblue said:
Are you sure your a cov fan?

One of the best !!

italiahorse · Apr 10, 2015

stupot07 said:
As we've a said no one knows. We can only presume to sit tight 3-4 years with the club breaking even and see if wasps fail. If we're breakeven with no/little additional investment, and the best they're gonna get is £1 and an IOU then there's little risk in them keeping the club another 5-10-15 years.

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So this is the whole point of your boring, tedious posts.

Wait for Wasps to fail ? Hope the stadium falls into Sisu's hands at the expense of Coventry taxpayers and then Sisu can sell both the stadium and the club.
Only trouble is, who will be interested in a established League 1 club, with no fans and an oversized stadium.

Sounds a bit like a 'hope and prayer' to me.

As I keep saying. The first thing we need to do is start winning and see where it takes us.
Sitting back and waiting will loose money, loose fans and ultimately loose the club.

mrtrench · Apr 10, 2015

Samo said:
So... They won't invest and they won't sell according to most on here, so I ask again... Why are they still here?

They are here in desperation; waiting for something to happen - a big court case they win for example. They are trying to get the club to run at least as break even so they don't lose any more. Why realise the loss when there's always a chance with time.

Samo · Apr 10, 2015

stupot07 said:
As we've a said no one knows. We can only presume to sit tight 3-4 years with the club breaking even and see if wasps fail. If we're breakeven with no/little additional investment, and the best they're gonna get is £1 and an IOU then there's little risk in them keeping the club another 5-10-15 years.

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My point is that, other than liquidation, there are only 2 ways out for them... Invest or sell. At some point they will do one or the other.

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