Sky Blue Sports & Leisure 2013 accounts (10 Viewers)

SkyBlue76 · Mar 6, 2014

covcityaaron said:
"ARVO have put more money in but repayable December 2014"

Should we be worried about this?

Are they expecting vast amounts of money back at the end of this year?

I think this is how the conversation went...

SISU - we are three weeks away from securing the Ricoh
ARVO - you said that last year
SISU - we mean it this time, but we'll just need some more funds from you to be able to tide us over in the meantime
ARVO - I tell you what, we'll loan you bit more money but we'll call the whole debt back in when you've secured the Ricoh
SISU - certainly, you'll have it all within three months
ARVO - I thought you said three weeks?
SISU - call it 12 months and you've got a deal.
ARVO - FFS. Right, you have twelve months. Then we'll want all our money back. If you haven't secured the Ricoh by then, you're on your own.

Houdi · Mar 6, 2014

Captain Dart said:
This year they paid up several contracts, Bell, McDonald, McSheff & a few others, they will counter balance any savings on operating costs and the pie money, the ticket income has plummeted and there is virtually no sponsorship money. It is going to be harsh! Add to that increasing interest as ARVO have put more money in.

These figures seem pretty awful, then you would have to assume that next years accounts will be truly horrendous. Income streams this years must have fallen through the floor. Will be interesting to see how ACL's accounts compare, even accounting for the fact that it won't really cover the period of the club leaving the Ricoh.
In many ways it shows the real war is not between SISU and ACL/CCC, but between SISU and the overwhelming majority of the fanbase. Whilst SISU can legally threaten/bully ACL and CCC, they can hardly legally threaten fans for refusing to go to Sixfields. That is the war SISU simply can never win, and the SISU brand is now so toxic, it is becoming increasingly hard to see how they could ever regain sufficient support to ever financially benefit from any outcome that arises.
SISU have become so fixated in their war with ACL/CCC, that they seemingly don't realise or maybe care that it has resulted in them in declaring war however unwittingly on the vast majority of the fans, their customers. They haven't broken most of the fans resolve not to go to Sixfields, and all the indications are that they never will.

Captain Dart · Mar 6, 2014

A total boycott will break them and then we can get back home and make a fresh start.

It is madness to hope these clowns will turn things around, utter madness.

I thought their losses would be more like £1M, but the reality is £7M and on the hook for as more interest payments than ticket sales generate!

fernandopartridge · Mar 6, 2014

Harry Krishner said:
Wow that's incredibly bad.

Not very good business people these SISU bods are they?

No - it is difficult when your average gate drops by 33% from 2012 to 2013 in fairness to them.

DazzleTommyDazzle · Mar 6, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
No - it is difficult when your average gate drops by 33% from 2012 to 2013 in fairness to them.

Bet they wish it was "only" 33% from 2013 to 2014!

GaryPendrysEyes · Mar 6, 2014

It took five/six years of highly skilled business acumen, superb marketing and customer relations for Sisu to reach this pinnacle of business performance. I would like to thank Joy and her team and hope they get the bonuses they deserve.

fernandopartridge · Mar 6, 2014

osb - is the debts due within 12 months of 31/5/13 to show ARVO as the club's major creditor at the point of administration?

fernandopartridge · Mar 6, 2014

DazzleTommyDazzle said:
Bet they wish it was "only" 33% from 2013 to 2014!

Indeed!

It's grim, although an even worse position next year will demonstrate that NOPM is working and the inevitable winding up of the club will have got rid of SISU.

GaryPendrysEyes · Mar 6, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
No - it is difficult when your average gate drops by 33% from 2012 to 2013 in fairness to them.

err are you suggesting gates have nothing to do with them?

Deleted member 2526 · Mar 6, 2014

New club shop perhaps?

John_Silletts_Nose · Mar 6, 2014

skybluesam66 said:
i was told that real losses are closer to 2.5m - so not sure what to believe
as our accounts have always been a mess according to fisher

Can you say who informed you that the real losses were closer to £2.5 million and was this for the year upto 31/5/13 or an expected figure upto 31/5/14
Also, when was this figure communicated?

GaryPendrysEyes · Mar 6, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
Indeed!

It's grim, although an even worse position next year will demonstrate that NOPM is working and the inevitable winding up of the club will have got rid of SISU.

I think you mean 'demonstrate the folly of Sisu taking the club out of Coventry to Northants', unless you are suggesting this is the fans fault?

fernandopartridge · Mar 6, 2014

GaryPendrysEyes said:
err are you suggesting gates have nothing to do with them?

Yeah, unless 5k of the 15k who regularly attended in the Championship were actually employed by SISU (it might explain the drop off in wages).

fernandopartridge · Mar 6, 2014

GaryPendrysEyes said:
I think you mean 'demonstrate the folly of Sisu taking the club out of Coventry to Northants', unless you are suggesting this is the fans fault?

It's a bit of both isn't it. You're right about Northampton.

I don't think many of the NOPM brigade are actually prepared for the outcome of it, as demonstrated by the reaction to the club's already declining financial position.

duffer · Mar 6, 2014

DaleM said:
Oh dear. What a sorry state we are in . It's gonna get worse lads . Virtually no assets , interest payments alone more than this seasons gate receipts. We are fucked unless SISU win the JR and manage to get the Ricoh .
If they lose I can see oblivion for us .
Useless fecking arseholes .

The alternative scenario, in which SISU lose the JR/don't get the Ricoh on their terms, doesn't necessarily mean disaster imho.

They could still return under the deal currently offered, they could try to negotiate something different and return, or if neither of those options are palatable, they could sell to someone prepared to do either of those things.

SISU taking a humping great loss on the club isn't of itself a bad thing, to my mind. Sooner or later they'll have to cut their losses.

DazzleTommyDazzle · Mar 6, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
Indeed!

It's grim, although an even worse position next year will demonstrate that NOPM is working and the inevitable winding up of the club will have got rid of SISU.

I would have to question the use of "inevitable".

There are other options.

SISU could see sense and reverse their ridiculous decision to move to Northampton, or they could decide that they are still not "at the bottom of the business cycle" (copyright TF) and sell for a reasonable price.

Or they could indeed take their toys home and wind up the club.

GaryPendrysEyes · Mar 6, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
Yeah, unless 5k of the 15k who regularly attended in the Championship were actually employed by SISU (it might explain the drop off in wages).

So how the club do has nothing to do with the owners? (you do realise they appoint directors/management team who sign coaches/ players), run marketing to fund it etc).. if it had nothing to do with them, or was wholly out of their control, why would anyone take on a business.... unreal

Godiva · Mar 6, 2014

Well, with accounts like that reflecting the situation 9 months ago, anyone outside the club should be amazed we're still trading.
But then again ... Leicester just showed a loss of some £34m and that followed a loss the previous year of £30m.

Anyway, ARVO is increasing it's stake in the club - more shares and more loans.
This is the most interesting part for me and support my theory that ARVO at some point will become our new owners.
And that ARVO is most likely owned - or part owned - by JS/sisu.

GaryPendrysEyes · Mar 6, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
It's a bit of both isn't it. You're right about Northampton.

I don't think many of the NOPM brigade are actually prepared for the outcome of it, as demonstrated by the reaction to the club's already declining financial position.

Let's be clear 1000 paying fans turning up is the responsibility of the owners Sisu. they are responsible for the club.

fernandopartridge · Mar 6, 2014

GaryPendrysEyes said:
So how the club do has nothing to do with the owners? (you do realise they appoint directors/management team who sign coaches/ players), run marketing to fund it etc).. if it had nothing to do with them, or was wholly out of their control, why would anyone take on a business.... unreal

That isn't what I've said. I have said the club's owners cannot be solely blamed for such a stark drop off in support. It's odd how the same level of drop off didn't happen with clubs like Leicester, Norwich or Southampton (who have traditionally been on a similar level to Cov).

fernandopartridge · Mar 6, 2014

GaryPendrysEyes said:
Let's be clear 1000 paying fans turning up is the responsibility of the owners Sisu. they are responsible for the club.

I haven't denied that. I am talking about the year before, when the club was playing home games at the Ricoh Arena in Coventry. The gates dropped by 33% year on year.

jimmyhillsfanclub · Mar 6, 2014

Lets be honest.....

At this point (annual losses of £7m+ & a debt of £40m+) even a return to the Ricoh, rent-free, & with 20,000 fans at every home game.....

...We are still fucked.....

Happy Thursday.

fernandopartridge · Mar 6, 2014

DazzleTommyDazzle said:
I would have to question the use of "inevitable".

There are other options.

SISU could see sense and reverse their ridiculous decision to move to Northampton, or they could decide that they are still not "at the bottom of the business cycle" (copyright TF) and sell for a reasonable price.

Or they could indeed take their toys home and wind up the club.

I've said inevitable based on what's happened up to now, out of the scenarios you have described, what do you feel is most likely? Considering that even this time last year, the thought of City playing its home games in Northampton was inconceivable.

GaryPendrysEyes · Mar 6, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
That isn't what I've said. I have said the club's owners cannot be solely blamed for such a stark drop off in support. It's odd how the same level of drop off didn't happen with clubs like Leicester, Norwich or Southampton (who have traditionally been on a similar level to Cov).

That's like saying Woolworth's drop in sales during the recession wasnt solely the responsibility of their board because companies like Aldi and Sainsburys didnt drop that much [its something about the Woolworths customer behaviour]. The responsibility for a business lies with the owner - it no good blaming others- especially the customers.

magic82ball · Mar 6, 2014

But people keep saying NOPM isn't working because SISU didn't change tact after half a season. Mmmm....

DaleM · Mar 6, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
I haven't denied that. I am talking about the year before, when the club was playing home games at the Ricoh Arena in Coventry. The gates dropped by 33% year on year.

And whose fucking fault is that ?

"I know lads lets go watch City"
" Who we playing ? "
"Shrewsbury"
" Last season it was the likes of Leicester, Forest etc. Who wants to watch fucking Shrewsbury in division fucking 3 for 25 quid."

Only one lot to blame for relegation and that's Sisu.

fernandopartridge · Mar 6, 2014

GaryPendrysEyes said:
That's like saying Woolworth's drop in sales during the recession wasnt solely the responsibility of their board because companies like Aldi and Sainsburys didnt drop that much [its something about the Woolworths customer behaviour]. The responsibility for a business lies with the owner - it no good blaming others- especially the customers.

Are you saying that CCFC is just a brand and not a football club?

DazzleTommyDazzle · Mar 6, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
I've said inevitable based on what's happened up to now, out of the scenarios you have described, what do you feel is most likely? Considering that even this time last year, the thought of City playing its home games in Northampton was inconceivable.

Quite honestly FP, I have no idea.

Normally you try to predict the future by assuming that people will act rationally - which would suggest one of my two alternative scenarios - but we are playing at Sixfields....

duffer · Mar 6, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
It's a bit of both isn't it. You're right about Northampton.

I don't think many of the NOPM brigade are actually prepared for the outcome of it, as demonstrated by the reaction to the club's already declining financial position.

I'm prepared for it. The whole point of NOPM is to put financial pressure on the owners.

If the accounts covering the last financial year are this grim, imagine how bad the next set will look.

At some point, they will tire of it - and either see sense and move back, or sell up, or perhaps both.

SkyblueBazza · Mar 6, 2014

Godiva said:
This is the most interesting part for me and support my theory that ARVO at some point will become our new owners.

THIS..!

Are losses from winding-up written-off against tax a to a degree at least? Then once/if the JR goes their way there will be a long term major asset in their hands.

And the club is sold off as someone else's toy/folly.

PUSB

mark82 · Mar 6, 2014

SkyBlue76 said:
I think this is how the conversation went...

SISU - we are three weeks away from securing the Ricoh
ARVO - you said that last year
SISU - we mean it this time, but we'll just need some more funds from you to be able to tide us over in the meantime
ARVO - I tell you what, we'll loan you bit more money but we'll call the whole debt back in when you've secured the Ricoh
SISU - certainly, you'll have it all within three months
ARVO - I thought you said three weeks?
SISU - call it 12 months and you've got a deal.
ARVO - FFS. Right, you have twelve months. Then we'll want all our money back. If you haven't secured the Ricoh by then, you're on your own.

Is that Fisher having a conversation in the mirror?

fernandopartridge · Mar 6, 2014

DaleM said:
And whose fucking fault is that ?

"I know lads lets go watch City"
" Who we playing ? "
"Shrewsbury"
" Last season it was the likes of Leicester, Forest etc. Who wants to watch fucking Shrewsbury in division fucking 3 for 25 quid."

Only one lot to blame for relegation and that's Sisu.

Do you go to watch Cov or the opposition?

DaleM · Mar 6, 2014

I know, lets blame Richardson

SkyblueBazza · Mar 6, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
That isn't what I've said. I have said the club's owners cannot be solely blamed for such a stark drop off in support. It's odd how the same level of drop off didn't happen with clubs like Leicester, Norwich or Southampton (who have traditionally been on a similar level to Cov).

That's not true IMO - their support base went down, but very quickly were given hope.
We went down & our support had more misery...& then more...& then some more of the same poured upon us!

PUSB

DaleM · Mar 6, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
Do you go to watch Cov or the opposition?

I went, season tickets. It's hypothetical.

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