Sky Blue Trust Meeting At Ricoh On Saturday (1 Viewer)

ashbyjan · Nov 22, 2012

On Saturday at 1pm the Sky Blue Trust is holding an open meeting titled How Can Fans Own A Football Club? The meeting is open to all fans, members or not. It is being held in Lady G's in the G Casino, they are hoping to have the bar open in there for us! Speakers will be from the Pompey Supporters Trust about how they have got to the situation where it looks very likely that they will be the first major football club to be owned by its fans and from Supporters Direct, talking about different models of fan ownership and then a member of the Sky Blue Trust to give an overview of where we stand.

If you have any interest in how supporters could save and indeed improve their club in the event of administration/liquidation or a general interest in fan ownership of clubs please come along. It promises to be an informative and interesting meeting and I invite you all to attend.

CJparker · Nov 22, 2012

What about other fan-owned clubs like Bournemouth, Port Vale and Northampton? Before we put the optimism-tinted spectacles on, let's remember that Pompey are far from the first British club to be fan owned, and the results so far have been disappointing.

I applaud the idea of working with other clubs' trusts though, shame I won't be there. But I would caution against the idea of the fans owning CCFC - the more pertinent question might be "would it work or make any difference?", rather than simply is it possible to buy a club, since making a success of it once fans are in charge seems to be the harder bit.

ashbyjan · Nov 22, 2012

CJ - no one is saying it would be easy or to be honest even possible but there are plenty of examples where it has worked. Portsmouth is the biggest and highest profile example and, as they are playing us, it seemed a good opportunity for them to tell us all about their particular experience and model. Every clubs circumstances are different and what worked at one is unlikely to be able to be copied 100% somewhere else but by taking stock of all the different examples the Sky Blue Trust is working towards something that could work in our unique situation.
Hopefully it will never have to be resorted to and under SISU or whoever the club will flourish and prosper but if the worst was to happen then we hope to be able to do our bit.

We'll_live_and_die · Nov 22, 2012

COVENTRY City fans will stage a meeting with Portsmouth supporters before their match at the Ricoh Arena on Saturday.

The Sky Blue Trust will host speakers from the Pompey Supporters Trust, who are in the process of buying their club from the receiver.

If it goes ahead it would make Portsmouth the largest fan-owned club in the country.

The meeting at G Casino from 1pm is open to all fans before the League One clash.

Jan Mokrzycki, spokesman for the Sky Blue Trust, said: "If you would like to learn more about what could be possible should the worst happen at Coventry City and the club faced administration or liquidation and how the supporters would have a major role to play in saving their club.

"The Sky Blue Trust is ensuring that all necessary information and plans are in place, so come along and see what others have done and what options might be open.

"Together, united supporters can make a difference."

The meeting will discuss different club ownership models and has been co-ordinated by Supporters Direct, the umbrella body for supporters trusts across various sports.

It comes before the Sky Blue Trust puts on a Christmas night at the Kasbah on December 15 with a VIP seating area and live music from Spector

Read More http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/2012/11/22/92746-32285335/#ixzz2CxPG1nQv

DH - Sky Blue · Nov 22, 2012

ashbyjan said:
...there are plenty of examples where it has worked. Portsmouth is the biggest and highest profile example.

The sale to the Portsmouth Supporters Trust hasn't even gone through yet so how can it be an example of how it has worked?

CJparker · Nov 22, 2012

DH - Sky Blue said:
The sale to the Portsmouth Supporters Trust hasn't even gone through yet so how can it be an example of how it has worked?

Beat me to it DH.

I don't want to be negative because the SCG, and the Trust, are really positive initiatives with lots of hard work being done on a voluntary basis. But I don't think people should get too excited about this particular idea.

I'm sure it will be an interesting session, just that my own preference would be to focus on more practical matters like improving the general matchday experience in tangible ways, e.g. improving the access of the railway tunnel etc

ashbyjan · Nov 22, 2012

CJ - the Trust is not all about doomsday scenarios and solutions. The Trust basically have two main aims - one is the plan if the brown stuff hits the fan but the second is very definitely the match day experience etc and working with the club directly and via the SCG to ensure that those who do attend matches can do so comfortably, safely and enjoyably and for those that don't attend we find out why and work with the club to get them to the games.

skybluejelly · Nov 22, 2012

i think we should start a thread on here about portsmouth ...it might prove quite popular

Wrenstreetcarpark · Nov 22, 2012

If fans are to be in a position to do anything sensible if/when Sisu finally run away, what is needed is TIME. Starting the process of talking and finding out NOW could pay dividends if/when...
Great that the SBT is taking a lead on this and getting the conversations started.

Or do you wait like the captain of an Italian cruise liner until you have already hit the rocks?

oldskyblue58 · Nov 22, 2012

I think it is a good thing that the Trust is doing contingency planning, certainly dont want to wait for it all to go tits up before anyone does a little initial planning. The more information the Trust and fans can gather the better...... it may never have to be used but ..........

So ok they have forged links with Pompey ST, but i am sure they will have contacted others too...... not all supporters trusts are successful and it remains to be seen if the Pompey one will win through

I think with all the current euphoria because of results, and the silence from the likes of TF, that the ccfc financial problems have been masked to some degree. It is much better that we are talking about football now, even better that we are talking about winning games, but dont forget the club is still in financial crisis, still owes £1m+ in rent and ACL rightly wont wait forever to be paid.

what the SB Trust is doing seems sensible to me

Mucca Mad Boys · Nov 22, 2012

oldskyblue58 said:
I think it is a good thing that the Trust is doing contingency planning, certainly dont want to wait for it all to go tits up before anyone does a little initial planning. The more information the Trust and fans can gather the better...... it may never have to be used but ..........

So ok they have forged links with Pompey ST, but i am sure they will have contacted others too...... not all supporters trusts are successful and it remains to be seen if the Pompey one will win through

I think with all the current euphoria because of results, and the silence from the likes of TF, that the ccfc financial problems have been masked to some degree. It is much better that we are talking about football now, even better that we are talking about winning games, but dont forget the club is still in financial crisis, still owes £1m+ in rent and ACL rightly wont wait forever to be paid.

what the SB Trust is doing seems sensible to me

If we purchase a share of the stadium, more capital will be available to pay the rent, I guess ACL are being lenient because they know the rent is way too high, it is a disgusting figure. On a side note, it baffles me why some CCFC fans side with the council, absolute disgrace! I hope we're successful in purchasing 50% of OUR stadium.

The council are robbing us, they're not* even investing in the city from the money they* get! Scum.

Had to edit some mistakes, sorry.

wingy · Nov 22, 2012

You truely are on a Sisu Pr Offensive on this board young man

cloughie · Nov 22, 2012

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
If we purchase a share of the stadium, more capital will be available to pay the rent, I guess ACL are being lenient because they know the rent is way too high, it is a disgusting figure. On a side note, it baffles me why some CCFC fans side with the council, absolute disgrace! I hope we're successful in purchasing 50% of OUR stadium.

The council are robbing us, they're to even investing in the city from the money tha get! Scum.

Hilarious again,

try reading a few facts on other threads regarding the ACL set up and finances before embarrassing yourself further

valiant15 · Nov 22, 2012

They paid it for over 4 years without complaining so tough shit. They cry like a baby saying they can't afford it cos of there own tight fisted actions last summer,they were even offered a reduction and turned it down.

Grendel · Nov 22, 2012

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
If we purchase a share of the stadium, more capital will be available to pay the rent, I guess ACL are being lenient because they know the rent is way too high, it is a disgusting figure. On a side note, it baffles me why some CCFC fans side with the council, absolute disgrace! I hope we're successful in purchasing 50% of OUR stadium.

The council are robbing us, they're to even investing in the city from the money tha get! Scum.

Is that the Socialist council you are talking about?

I think you are Kevin Fosters little nephew.

oldskyblue58 · Nov 22, 2012

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
If we purchase a share of the stadium, more capital will be available to pay the rent, I guess ACL are being lenient because they know the rent is way too high, it is a disgusting figure. On a side note, it baffles me why some CCFC fans side with the council, absolute disgrace! I hope we're successful in purchasing 50% of OUR stadium.

The council are robbing us, they're to even investing in the city from the money tha get! Scum.

Sorry chap but there is so much wrong with that statement that i dont where to start.

Purchase a share of the stadium? ............ a share of the stadium isnt up for sale, only 50% of ACL but that isnt up for sale as such
More capital to pay rent ? .......... not sure i know what you mean......... buying half the "stadium" (the shares in ACL)doesnt change the lease certainly wont give the club more cash
ACL being lenient ?......... yes but not because they think the rent is too much, CCFC agreed the rent but now they have failed in their finances and on the pitch others have to pay the price of their failure - why?
CCFC fans side with the council ?......... not sure they do as such, but without the council "scum" and the charity then CCFC would have gone in to liquidation on at least two other occassions i can think of, and it is only the patience of ACL that is stopping that right now
OUR stadium?......... it isnt, we never paid for it and we certainly do not own any part of it, and we contribute a minority amount to it
The council are robbing us ?.......... council and charity have not taken a penny, all they have done is pay out, they havent even charged interest on the millions they have invested in the stadium- strange way of robbing a club if you ask me

Think you are a little wide of the facts

Mucca Mad Boys · Nov 22, 2012

oldskyblue58 said:
Sorry chap but there is so much wrong with that statement that i dont where to start.

Purchase a share of the stadium? ............ a share of the stadium isnt up for sale, only 50% of ACL but that isnt up for sale as such
More capital to pay rent ? .......... not sure i know what you mean......... buying half the "stadium" (the shares in ACL)doesnt change the lease certainly wont give the club more cash
ACL being lenient ?......... yes but not because they think the rent is too much, CCFC agreed the rent but now they have failed in their finances and on the pitch others have to pay the price of their failure - why?
CCFC fans side with the council ?......... not sure they do as such, but without the council "scum" and the charity then CCFC would have gone in to liquidation on at least two other occassions i can think of, and it is only the patience of ACL that is stopping that right now
OUR stadium?......... it isnt, we never paid for it and we certainly do not own any part of it, and we contribute a minority amount to it
The council are robbing us ?.......... council and charity have not taken a penny, all they have done is pay out, they havent even charged interest on the millions they have invested in the stadium- strange way of robbing a club if you ask me

Think you are a little wide of the facts

Honestly, i'm niether pro SISU or con SISU, I just try to look at the situation and interpret it in a hopefully neutral and fair way. I only care for CCFC and what is best for OUR club. No knight in shining armour is going to invest in us in the foreseeable future, so deal with it.

Firstly, we have a right to buy our stadium, without CCFC playing in it, not owning the stadium is a root cause of all of our problems, (SIDE NOTE: remember pre SISU when that billionaire who shown an interest in buying us, looked at our finances and said, whoever takes over, good luck to them, prophetic words at the minute) we buy our stadium, or a share for the time being, we have a source of income so we can pay our outstanding debts to ACL etc (I'm not SISU so I wouldn't know if this is the case but I'd imagine this is the case).

I have to admit, in the heat of the moment I called the council scum, I retract that, but, they have an ulterior motive for stepping in and taking over half the share of the RICOH, money, they'll get a lot of money from the kiosks, concerts etc. they won't give it up, unless they get offered silly money, they didn't necessarily care about the club, there was a lot at stake, businesses, such as Tescos, Pizza Hut + Burger King, Next etc.

I said some fans side with the council over the club on this issue, which is shameful on their part, regardless of you views on SISU, Club > Council (my view).

The rate CCFC have to pay the council for the honour to play in our stadium is robbery, it is too much and we are an unsustainable club because of that (whoever our owners be unless they
are a billionaire or thereabouts).

Bottom line is, ACL, the council more specifically, are preventing the club from being half successful by charging astronomical rent and if a deal is struck for a share, vetoing it. We dont have the best of owners, but the reality is, it's the best we're going to get! Fans' trust would be bound to fail, our fans can't even be bothered to turn up to our games!!! Truth hurts.

Grendel, the same 'socialist' council that offers subsidises to corporations to build a branch in the arena park (is that what it's called?) such as Tesco, Pizza Hut and Burger King and IKEA in town. sounds socialist to me :facepalm:

valiant15 · Nov 22, 2012

I personaly hope that acl don't back down to sisu and then take them to the cleaners for what they are owed.

Mucca Mad Boys · Nov 22, 2012

valiant15 said:
I personaly hope that acl don't back down to sisu and then take them to the cleaners for what they are owed.

A) it won't happen... B) what a great fan of CCFC wanting the (dramatising for effect) enemy to win. Unbelievable.

valiant15 · Nov 22, 2012

Enemy? What enemy? Acl are owed rent so why shouldn't they have it? Why won't it happen? Your'e coming across as a bit of a know it all dickhead to be honest. You're just a sisu rent boy.

lordsummerisle · Nov 22, 2012

valiant15 said:
I personaly hope that acl don't back down to sisu and then take them to the cleaners for what they are owed.

Won't be owed any money soon, the Sky Blue Trust are having a whip-round to pay the rent in the Casino on Saturday.

oldskyblue58 · Nov 22, 2012

Been through some this a few times before. So will keep it brief

The council own the freehold they have given a long lease to ACL to run the stadium, ACL owned equally by Council and Charity through shell companies

CCFC (not SISU) had an option to purchase the 50% shares of charity in ACL.
ACL will not distribute any funds or income to shareholders until it has paid its loans off - 12 years
ACL cant pay dividends because it would be illegal at the moment
Only way that shareholders can get funds from a company is by dividends
ACL take a share of the operating profits of a joint venture with Compass therfore any income streams belong not only to ACL (Council & Charity) but also Compass ...... can not simply be given to CCFC
ACL makes 500k net profit a year - that isnt going to cancel out CCFC 's losses
Even if you take the rent right out of the CCFC figures the club is budgetting on a 3m loss ........ in previous years the losses including rent have been in the region of £7m or £8m before player sales .............. the rent isnt the reason CCFC is at risk
Both the council and charity do not want to be running kiosks ....... but wont sell on ACL until CCFC is a viable club or a plan that they will stick to, to be one...... making budgetted losses of 3m, refusing to pay any rent, having the biggest squad in the league and one of the biggest wage bills doesnt smack of taking viability very seriously
In terms of the facilities on offer then the rent isnt probably too far away - the problem is that CCFC have failed for decades to sort out their finances and keep putting its very existence at risk. The problem is because of lack of a proper plan we are now in division 3 - that is not ACL's or the councils fault (they dont buy the players pick and manage the team).
If we owned the stadium from day one there is nothing to say that we might not still be in the same league now paying interest on massive loans instead of rent. Had they bought the long lease or ACL there would have been the same loans ACL currently has - the cost of which is over 1.4m a year

said i would keep it brief so i wont go on............... it is all very well saying the club should own the stadium but to do so it would need to borrow 10's of millions which would cost interest that would be more than the rent they currently pay (sorry dont pay). The so called additional funds wouldnt cover it and the club couldnt maximise the benefit of the site because it can not afford to, and it wouldnt put money in the team - as it stands quite the opposite.

All of this shows why it all takes so long and why CCFC havent been able to do a deal. In the meantime they have paid no rent at all - that can not be right can it ?

valiant15 · Nov 22, 2012

According to one jumped up know it all on here,that is right. It's everyone else's fault that the club is in a mess and not the owners.

Mucca Mad Boys · Nov 22, 2012

valiant15 said:
Enemy? What enemy? Acl are owed rent so why shouldn't they have it? Why won't it happen? Your'e coming across as a bit of a know it all dickhead to be honest. You're just a sisu rent boy.

They should be paid what they're owed yes, but the figure they are charging is too high for a L1 club. Fact. I don't condone not paying rent, but, if you can't pay, you can't pay, what do you do?

You come across as a deluded individual who has been consumed of his hatred of a target group he (or she, I don't actually know) ceases to see reality or see anything positive even when the target group tries to build bridges.

I'll reiterate, I only care for CCFC, we gain from ground owner ship, we can move forward, I want that, not more harm to the club I love, I have no attachment to SISU, but when they are potentially helping my club, I appreciate it. They've allowed the managers to sign good players this season, I appreciate it. They've done bad, in bad conditions, you don't see that. Why, to you and others, I appear to be pro SISU because I compare them to their predecessors and other owners (Pompey) and realise they aren't as bad as you and others make out.

valiant15 · Nov 22, 2012

It's not acl's fault that were a league 1 club. The rent was to high from the start,but they paid it for years,now the useless twats have got us relegated they want others to pick up the tab. Tough shit.

Mucca Mad Boys · Nov 22, 2012

oldskyblue58 said:
Been through some this a few times before. So will keep it brief

The council own the freehold they have given a long lease to ACL to run the stadium, ACL owned equally by Council and Charity through shell companies

CCFC (not SISU) had an option to purchase the 50% shares of charity in ACL.
ACL will not distribute any funds or income to shareholders until it has paid its loans off - 12 years
ACL cant pay dividends because it would be illegal at the moment
Only way that shareholders can get funds from a company is by dividends
ACL take a share of the operating profits of a joint venture with Compass therfore any income streams belong not only to ACL (Council & Charity) but also Compass ...... can not simply be given to CCFC
ACL makes 500k net profit a year - that isnt going to cancel out CCFC 's losses
Even if you take the rent right out of the CCFC figures the club is budgetting on a 3m loss ........ in previous years the losses including rent have been in the region of £7m or £8m before player sales .............. the rent isnt the reason CCFC is at risk
Both the council and charity do not want to be running kiosks ....... but wont sell on ACL until CCFC is a viable club or a plan that they will stick to, to be one...... making budgetted losses of 3m, refusing to pay any rent, having the biggest squad in the league and one of the biggest wage bills doesnt smack of taking viability very seriously
In terms of the facilities on offer then the rent isnt probably too far away - the problem is that CCFC have failed for decades to sort out their finances and keep putting its very existence at risk. The problem is because of lack of a proper plan we are now in division 3 - that is not ACL's or the councils fault (they dont buy the players pick and manage the team).
If we owned the stadium from day one there is nothing to say that we might not still be in the same league now paying interest on massive loans instead of rent. Had they bought the long lease or ACL there would have been the same loans ACL currently has - the cost of which is over 1.4m a year

said i would keep it brief so i wont go on............... it is all very well saying the club should own the stadium but to do so it would need to borrow 10's of millions which would cost interest that would be more than the rent they currently pay (sorry dont pay). The so called additional funds wouldnt cover it and the club couldnt maximise the benefit of the site because it can not afford to, and it wouldnt put money in the team - as it stands quite the opposite.

All of this shows why it all takes so long and why CCFC havent been able to do a deal. In the meantime they have paid no rent at all - that can not be right can it ?

I don't condone it no, of course not, it's wrong, if I did it, I'd get arrested and so on, these in business, get away with it, what I'm saying it
S it is too much.

Take rent out, we lose money, I'm with you on that, BUT, we buy the ground, we reap the profits from the ground, we cut our losses to near break even/not a big deal debt/make profit, either way, CCFC could look at its finances and think money for transfers are available, therefore delegate more budget to MR to buy playing staff, you with me on this?

look it from this angle, you will see I want this for CCFC not SISU, I don't like business in football, it kills me when they call a football club a business, sport should be non-profit, but that's the way it is, I don't like it, but I have to get on with it.

wingy · Nov 22, 2012

SBT you need to do a bit more reading .

There will be no income produced for years with the purchase of the Higgs stake in ACL.

The Subsidy to Tesco you refer to actually is the reverse as their purchase of the £60 M. parcel of land helped subsidise the Construction of the Stadium .

Sisu have never had enough money to make a success of the tenure @ CCFC. Very small change thrown at a shorterm promotion charge followed by saddling our club with a mountain of debt in chasing their losses .

Somehow we're told that finding a potential £10M. for the Higgs share is no problem .How come? Would'nt the suggestion that this is the case mean that they did'nt really have ambition to get to Prem? An investment of that level initially on the team ,now that would have been ambition.

They've taken a £20m. business and reduced it to a £6-7M. business ,hardly surprising then that we now sit where they put us in the third tier which suits their ambition of low wage football to balance the books ,which still don't balance .

The rent was set before they came ,was paid by their predecessors and themselves and was affordable for a team in the Champ.

Their own actions have lost themselves circa £5M. of income on last season(League ,TV ,Commercial/fan revenues) it is their own responsibility for this club being unable to pay the RENT If they can't afford to run us and pay their bills they should step aside .

If a bank had loaned the club this kind of money they'd end up taking a hit .probably 2P or 3P in the pound.

Mucca Mad Boys · Nov 22, 2012

valiant15 said:
According to one jumped up know it all on here,that is right. It's everyone else's fault that the club is in a mess and not the owners.

Hang on a second, I didn't exempt SISU from any blame did I!? No, they have done wrong, similar mistakes to their predecessors.

valiant15 said:
It's not acl's fault that were a league 1 club. The rent was to high from the start,but they paid it for years,now the useless twats have got us relegated they want others to pick up the tab. Tough shit.

It wasn't just 'them' who got us relegated, it's a collective effort between players, manager, owners, we could've stayed up last year, we dropped too many points from winning positions and conceded too often in the last 20, cost us points from winning and drawing positions, some would blame the management, who was not helped with not getting back, but he was pretty cluesless and wasn't a good manager. I think getting relegated cold end up being a good thing like it was for Norwich, Leicester, Leeds and S'hampton.

valiant15 · Nov 22, 2012

All players and a manager brought in by sisu on the cheap. If you think relegation could be a good thing and we could do a leicester or a norwich then you truly are deluded. Leicester&norwich have owners who care about the clubs(unlike ours) and also dont have big debts like us.

fernandopartridge · Nov 22, 2012

ashbyjan said:
On Saturday at 1pm the Sky Blue Trust is holding an open meeting titled How Can Fans Own A Football Club? The meeting is open to all fans, members or not. It is being held in Lady G's in the G Casino, they are hoping to have the bar open in there for us! Speakers will be from the Pompey Supporters Trust about how they have got to the situation where it looks very likely that they will be the first major football club to be owned by its fans and from Supporters Direct, talking about different models of fan ownership and then a member of the Sky Blue Trust to give an overview of where we stand.

If you have any interest in how supporters could save and indeed improve their club in the event of administration/liquidation or a general interest in fan ownership of clubs please come along. It promises to be an informative and interesting meeting and I invite you all to attend.

At least bring in fans who have actually owned a club

Wrenstreetcarpark · Nov 22, 2012

SkyBlue_Taylor has posted some 721 times on SBT. Has he never read anyone else's posts? It is easy to be wrong in this complex situation but it takes real skill to be as wrong as he is on as many things as he is. The longer the post the more he manages to fit in that is just plain wrong.

Waste of space.

wingy · Nov 22, 2012

fernandopartridge said:
At least bring in fans who have actually owned a club

They did 5 years ago ,the guy is now chairman of Exeter.

oldskyblue58 · Nov 22, 2012

What do we buy the ground with ? what about the costs attributable to the extra income ? CCFC wont run the catering they will buy it in? They cant afford the freehold ? the long lease would cost 20m in total ........ what about the interest on that and capital repayments. It wont leave money for MR any purchases would be done from more borrowings..... and unless the team succeeds we will end up back at square one.... but this time with the stadium at risk more than it ever has been

Like it or not it is a business, the problem is too many owners etc run it on their egos not their business brains

valiant15 · Nov 22, 2012

Where's sbt gone? Maybe his mummy has called him in for his tea?

kg82 · Nov 22, 2012

valiant15 said:
Where's sbt gone? Maybe his mummy has called him in for his tea?

That what happened when you were 18? Cos, that's a little strange...

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