So, Reice Charles Cooke... (20 Viewers)

Otis · Dec 22, 2015

lifeskyblue said:
I think the difference was that burge was getting lambasted for simply pulling on a CCFC jersey.

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Sorry but I don't believe that is true for a single second.

Burge played and was nervy, edgy and in turn our back four was nervy too. He was not at all confident coming for crosses etc. etc. etc. Already been listed and mentioned several times, so no need to keep going on about it.

The difference I see is that Burge had entire games where he looked edgy and not commanding. RCC looks confident and commanding. They both have made mistakes, but RCC has been the more confident keeper and our back four has been more solid as a result.

Samo · Dec 22, 2015

Otis said:
Sorry but I don't believe that is true for a single second.

Burge played and was nervy, edgy and in turn our back four was nervy too. He was not at all confident coming for crosses etc. etc. etc. Already been listed and mentioned several times, so no need to keep going on about it.

The difference I see is that Burge had entire games where he looked edgy and not commanding. RCC looks confident and commanding. They both have made mistakes, but RCC has been the more confident keeper and our back four has been more solid as a result.

Yup, Burge looks a dodgy keeper to me whereas RCC is a good prospect dropping a few clangers as you might expect from a young keeper.
The debate here should not be Burge v RCC, the winner there is already obvious. It should be about whether or not to take the pressure off RCC and bring in experience.

lifeskyblue · Dec 22, 2015

Not convinced Otis...and yes stats don't tell you everything but...burge played 9 league games and defence let in 10 goals. In RCC last 9 league games we have conceded 14. I'm not saying one keeper is better or worse but we cannot say the defence is more solid.

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Samo · Dec 22, 2015

lifeskyblue said:
Not convinced Otis...and yes stats don't tell you everything but...burge played 9 league games and defence let in 10 goals. In RCC last 9 league games we have conceded 14. I'm not saying one keeper is better or worse but we cannot say the defence is more solid.

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There are other factors of course... Burge had Reda in front of him for example.

Otis · Dec 22, 2015

lifeskyblue said:
Not convinced Otis...and yes stats don't tell you everything but...burge played 9 league games and defence let in 10 goals. In RCC last 9 league games we have conceded 14. I'm not saying one keeper is better or worse but we cannot say the defence is more solid.

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But I think it has looked more solid, the difference obviously being single, individual errors that have cost us points.

Thing is, the defence can look solid all game, but if one mistake costs us a goal, on paper the stats are going to say we let a goal in. Against Sheff Utd our defence looked quite solid. One single mistake by RCC cost us the game, so I don't think the stats at all paint the full picture.

You can have a game where our defence is all over the place but we don't concede, against a game where we've been solid but one mistake has cost is the match. Which one stat wise would make us look the more solid?

lifeskyblue · Dec 22, 2015

I agree totally. And as I said stats can be made to tell any story. My point is there were many on here criticising burge every game often without foundation. I think turner made the defence look more solid and I like RCCs recycling of the ball (not last game though). However the fact remains that we are at the moment shipping goals in most games. If we are to get promoted this season then we must tighten up...whether that's the keeper or defence or a combination is immaterial.

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Houdi · Dec 22, 2015

Samo said:
Yup, Burge looks a dodgy keeper to me whereas RCC is a good prospect dropping a few clangers as you might expect from a young keeper.
The debate here should not be Burge v RCC, the winner there is already obvious. It should be about whether or not to take the pressure off RCC and bring in experience.

Well since Cooke has only played a mere handful of games, and has made costly mistakes in the last three games, I'm not sure how you can claim Cooke is obviously the better. Both keepers are very inexperienced, with a lot still to prove. Indeed I believe Mowbray has said that rates both keepers, Cooke long term may prove the better keeper, but the jury is still out on both.If Cooke had played 200 plus games then maybe you could argue that this was just a blip, but his good game/ bad game ratio at the moment is simply not good enough.

Samo · Dec 22, 2015

Houdi said:
Well since Cooke has only played a mere handful of games, and has made costly mistakes in the last three games, I'm not sure how you can claim Cooke is obviously the better. Both keepers are very inexperienced, with a lot still to prove. Indeed I believe Mowbray has said that rates both keepers, Cooke long term may prove the better keeper, but the jury is still out on both.If Cooke had played 200 plus games then maybe you could argue that this was just a blip, but his good game/ bad game ratio at the moment is simply not good enough.

All round game... RCC obviously superior for me. Although I'll admit it's not been long to get a good look at either. But then if we drop them both we never will.

Grendel · Dec 22, 2015

The bottom line is that for the second season running we've not took the goal keeping position seriously enough.

Stats are pointless. We've lost only one game under rcc and he holds a successive clean sheet record which suggests someone beaming down from Mars would rate him the best keeper in our history.

The simple truth is Burge is a desperately poor keeper. His positional sense is non existence. His command of the area is erratic and he is a disaster zone.

So Cook is in, not because he is a world beater, but because he possesses the basics required. Burge looks like an outfield player made to play in goal.

That's it.

sw88 · Dec 22, 2015

If Burge was a decent keeper, Mowbray wouldn't have kept him out the team after his 'flu' / 'cold', whatever he came down with. No matter how RCC played in his first game, if Burge was first choice, he'd have walked back in. As he didn't, I suspect that Mowbray, although he won't publicly say it for obvious reasons, must have had his concerns too.

He's stuck with RCC and I think will continue to do so as he's definately the more likely to become a decent keeper playing at a decent standard

sw88 · Dec 22, 2015

Grendel said:
The bottom line is that for the second season running we've not took the goal keeping position seriously enough..

I agree with this. It's a bit like Arsenal (a bit, I'm not suggesting its identical as different leagues (obviously)). They always went with keepers who were error prone. Yet as soon as they sign someone reliable, their season appears to be in the up (apart from his first game and his clanger!!)

dongonzalos · Dec 22, 2015

Hadji10 said:
How many more costly errors are we going to allow RCC then?

Fleck cost us the 3 points against Doncaster

st john · Dec 22, 2015

dongonzalos said:
Fleck cost us the 3 points against Doncaster

2 points?

dongonzalos · Dec 22, 2015

st john said:
2 points?

Yes sorry, maths was never......

Otis · Dec 22, 2015

dongonzalos said:
Yes sorry, maths was never......

Your number 11 priority?

Samo · Dec 22, 2015

sw88 said:
I agree with this. It's a bit like Arsenal (a bit, I'm not suggesting its identical as different leagues (obviously)). They always went with keepers who were error prone. Yet as soon as they sign someone reliable, their season appears to be in the up (apart from his first game and his clanger!!)

Did he drop a clanger? He must be a terrible keeper like RCC.

stupot07 · Dec 22, 2015

dongonzalos said:
Fleck cost us the 3 points against Doncaster

No it was joint enterprise, RCC passing it to fleck when he was being closed down, then fleck playing it blind. RCC passing it out, and he was holding on for too long at times invited Doncaster to press higher. Both were culpable.

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PVA · Dec 22, 2015

RCC was totally at fault for the first goal and the second goal was about 95% flecks fault.

dongonzalos · Dec 23, 2015

stupot07 said:
No it was joint enterprise, RCC passing it to fleck when he was being closed down, then fleck playing it blind. RCC passing it out, and he was holding on for too long at times invited Doncaster to press higher. Both were culpable.

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Fleck had time to turn, instead he played a crazy blind pass. There was no need for it. RCC is clearly instructed to pass it out short whenever he can. Fleck was not played into trouble he just did not look when he made his pass. Which is so not like him.

Hadji10 · Dec 23, 2015

RCC dropped a clanger for their first, 100% at fault for that.

And in that scenario he should never have fizzed a pass into Fleck when 2-1 up with 20 to go.

Pipehitterz · Dec 26, 2015

great save in first 10 minutes onto the post
just sayin

Otis · Dec 26, 2015

Pipehitterz said:
great save in first 10 minutes onto the post
just sayin

Did he touch it? I wasn't aware of that..

Hadji10 · Dec 26, 2015

He didn't touch it. Was right in line with it. Done nothing wrong today.

Defence doesn't look look so assured of him as some seem to think.

Pipehitterz · Dec 26, 2015

replay looks like the save to me

Otis · Dec 26, 2015

Hadji10 said:
He didn't touch it. Was right in line with it. Done nothing wrong today.

Defence doesn't look look so assured of him as some seem to think.

He caught everything he had to catch today and punched when he needed to punch.

We can't just pick on RCC today for short passes putting players in difficulty, cos they were all doing it.

Passing out of defence excepted, I thought RCC looked quite assured. There was one ball he misjudged when he came rushing out of goal, but the wind held the ball up. He still
Got the ball clear though.

I thought he was alright today. I think the defence seemed assured enough with him.

Nick · Dec 26, 2015

Hadji10 said:
He didn't touch it. Was right in line with it. Done nothing wrong today.

Defence doesn't look look so assured of him as some seem to think.

Was that when the defence were chipping passes to him?

Otis · Dec 26, 2015

Nick said:
Was that when the defence were chipping passes to him?

No idea. Bigi did it and so too Lameiras.

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Hadji10 · Dec 26, 2015

There was at least 2 occasions where Martin headed it away rather than letting RCC catch it when RCC had already committed.

But yeah, he was fine today.

Otis · Dec 26, 2015

Hadji10 said:
There was at least 2 occasions where Martin headed it away rather than letting RCC catch it when RCC had already committed.

But yeah, he was fine today.

But defenders do that all the time, whoever the keeper is, whatever the club.

Otis · Dec 26, 2015

Otis said:
But defenders do that all the time, whoever the keeper is, whatever the club.

You would see that with John Terry in front of Petr Cech. Doesn't mean he hasn't got confidence in him. Happens all the time when defenders making the decision to clear the ball themselves rather than leave it for the keeper.

wingy · Dec 26, 2015

Clean sheet for him today.
Something to build on.
Handling pretty good today Commanding coming for crosses.
distribution slow and pretty poor.

rupert_bear · Dec 26, 2015

Done okay today in horrible conditions swirling gusts of wind and the whole defence in front of him all over the place.

Lamptey · Dec 26, 2015

Obviously been told by Mogga to slow it down at restarts, which is a shame, because his fast distribution is stand out.

sw88 · Dec 26, 2015

Lamptey said:
Obviously been told by Mogga to slow it down at restarts, which is a shame, because his fast distribution is stand out.

Ended up throwing one straight out of play, which was disappointing, but other than that, thought he looked more comfortable today

chiefdave · Dec 26, 2015

Nick said:
Was that when the defence were chipping passes to him?

They weren't doing him any favours in the first half. A more experienced keeper would have been doing his nut at them but I don't suppose RCC can go off on Ricketts.

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