So the real Poll (2 Viewers)

Sky Blue Kid · May 21, 2016

Nick said:
Did he? Have you got the link to that?

I'll do better than that Nick..... Here you are, taken from a big article made by the BBC....
For the majority of Sky Blues fans, this will be their first 'home' game since 20 April 2013.

For the minority who made the 68-mile round trip to Northampton to watch City play at the Sixfields Stadium during the 2013-14 season, life will suddenly seem a lot less complicated.

And for the owners of the Ricoh and the club who both, in their own separate ways, lost an entire season's worth of revenue, it is time to forget about what has been lost and concentrate on the club's future, back where they should be.

City's average home gates for the past decade
Championship: 2004-05 - 16,048 (final year at Highfield Road)
Championship: 2005-06 - 21,302 (first season at Ricoh Arena)
Championship: 2006-07 - 20,342
Championship: 2007-08 - 19,123
Championship: 2008-09 - 17,451
Championship: 2009-10 - 17,305
Championship: 2010-11 - 16,309
Championship: 2011-12 - 15,118 (relegated to League One)
League One: 2012-13 - 10,864
League One: 2013-14 - 2,348 (Sixfields)
"It's still very much the club's focus and intention to own its own ground in order to access the revenues that come with it," said City's Tim Fisher, who took over as chairman this week in a boardroom reshuffle which saw Steve Waggott take on the role of chief executive.

The Ricoh Arena may not necessarily have proved as popular as Highfield Road when it first opened but, after all the City fans have been through, it will sure feel like home now - as they finally start the longer, more relevant journey of what they hope will be a trip back to the top flight of English football - an experience last tasted in 2001.

chiefdave · May 21, 2016

That was when we first came back, we're talking about the drop off this season.

Brylowes · May 21, 2016

Nick said:
Not really, as fans of CCFC it's about thick and thin. Fill the Ricoh and take the butts option away if thats what people want. Otherwise if we get 11 - 15k a week it looks like a 20 - 25k stadium is fine.

While that happens, the attendance might help get the team going and show Wasps that CCFC does have power, might even get us a better deal at the Ricoh if we beat their attendances every week.

Probably easier to sit at home moaning because we might not get tickets if we play Chelsea though.

It's only about thick and thin for the hard core support, the rest are just there to enjoy themselves
but we are not providing an enjoyable experience. Take Norwich, Leicester, Palace or any team
if they had to endure what we have over the last two decades, there fan base would be where
ours is now , and vice versa.

Sky Blue Kid · May 21, 2016

chiefdave said:
That was when we first came back, we're talking about the drop off this season.

OK! wrong timeline... but it's replies like that from arseholes like Fisher that wind up the honest everyday fan.

Otis · May 21, 2016

Nick said:
People said typical city when we were playing teams like Man Utd, Chelsea and Tottenham in the city centre every week. It's been as long as I can remember.

The way to show that the fanbase needs a huge ground is to get the fanbase down to the ricoh to show it.

Chicken and egg though Nick. A winning team will bring people into this huge ground.

I do agree though that we need a campaign to get bums on seats.

Otis · May 21, 2016

Nick said:
That would be the same with any sellout though wouldn't it?

Why does everybody assume we are sudden;y going to start going through the leagues?

No-one has assumed that, but teams who get promoted have momentum and quite often do well the following season in the higher League.

Conference 2014/15 - Bristol Rovers were promoted. Following season they were promoted again.

League Two 2014/15 - Burton were promoted. Following season, promoted again.

League Two 2013/14 - Chesterfield and Rochdale were promoted. Following season Chesterfield finished in the play-off positions in 6th place and Rochdale finished in the play-off positions in 4th.

Once you have a winning mentality it can help greatly in the higher division with you carrying that momentum with you.

stupot07 · May 21, 2016

Otis said:
No-one has assumed that, but teams who get promoted have momentum and quite often do well the following season in the higher League.

Conference 2014/15 - Bristol Rovers were promoted. Following season they were promoted again.

League Two 2014/15 - Burton were promoted. Following season, promoted again.

League Two 2013/14 - Chesterfield and Rochdale were promoted. Following season Chesterfield finished in the play-off positions in 6th place and Rochdale finished in the play-off positions in 4th.

Once you have a winning mentality it can help greatly in the higher division with you carrying that momentum with you.

There's a massive step up in finances and quality from league one to the championship. Southampton got promoted from league one, then promoted from the championship, but they had the second largest wage bill in the league of c£30m, Bournemouth went up in their second season but made c£40m losses in 3 years to do so.

Out of the 2014/15 league one promoted teams, 2 finished in the bottom half (1 relegated), and Preston finished 11th and 12 points from 6th, I expect them to be relegation candidates next season.

There's some massive clubs in the championship now and with increased parachute payments the odds are against back to back promotions back to the PL without massive investment in the playing side, which ain't happening under sisu, and not likely to happen at the Ricoh under a rental deal, as that makes change of ownership very remote.

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SkyBlue_Bear83 · May 21, 2016

Otis said:
No-one has assumed that, but teams who get promoted have momentum and quite often do well the following season in the higher League.

Conference 2014/15 - Bristol Rovers were promoted. Following season they were promoted again.

League Two 2014/15 - Burton were promoted. Following season, promoted again.

League Two 2013/14 - Chesterfield and Rochdale were promoted. Following season Chesterfield finished in the play-off positions in 6th place and Rochdale finished in the play-off positions in 4th.

Once you have a winning mentality it can help greatly in the higher division with you carrying that momentum with you.

When did Rochdale finish 4th? think you may have meant Rotherham

Otis · May 21, 2016

stupot07 said:
There's a massive step up in finances and quality from league one to the championship. Southampton got promoted from league one, then promoted from the championship, but they had the second largest wage bill in the league of c£30m, Bournemouth went up in their second season but made c£40m losses in 3 years to do so.

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Yep, I get that, Stu.

No-one has said we are going to get back to back promotions or suddenly sky rocket into the Premiership. Some people on here are totally jumping the gun and making assumptions, reading between the lines of what posters have said.

I think if we went up we could make a fist of it in the Championship. First season would be to try and consolidate and keep out of the bottom 3.

Does happen though in the Championship too on occasion.

League One 2013/14 - Wolves got promotion. Following season they finished 7th in the Championship, level on points with the team in 6th.

Brentford also got promotion and the following season they finished 5th in the Championship and therefore in the play-offs.

Otis · May 21, 2016

CCFC said:
When did Rochdale finish 4th? think you may have meant Rotherham

Yep, got in a muddle there.

skyblueinBaku · May 21, 2016

dadgad said:
Our owners took us to Northants.
They have no ambition.

No ambition, maybe. Certainly no interest in CCFC.

stupot07 · May 21, 2016

Otis said:
Yep, I get that, Stu.

No-one has said we are going to get back to back promotions or suddenly sky rocket into the Premiership. Some people on here are totally jumping the gun and making assumptions, reading between the lines of what posters have said.

I think if we went up we could make a fist of it in the Championship. First season would be to try and consolidate and keep out of the bottom 3.

Does happen though in the Championship too on occasion.

League One 2013/14 - Wolves got promotion. Following season they finished 7th in the Championship, level on points with the team in 6th.

Brentford also got promotion and the following season they finished 5th in the Championship and therefore in the play-offs.

If we got promoted to the Championship I would put money on us being relegated within 3 seasons. Our turnover even at the Ricoh will be one of the lowest in the league.

We have absolutely no detail of thr proposed stadium, I just don't get how everyone can write it off before we do. We aren't going to get what we want or need from wasps, sonwe have to explore all options properly. I'm not saying I'm for it, I'm saying in open to the idea in principle.

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Otis · May 21, 2016

stupot07 said:
If we got promoted to the Championship I would put money on us being relegated within 3 seasons. Our turnover even at the Ricoh will be one of the lowest in the league.

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Happy chappy aren't we!!

Thing is Stu, we have no idea what will happen should we go up. Maybe Sisu will bog off, maybe we will make a fist of it, maybe not.

I don't see why we can't make a go of it in the Championship. Who knows what will happen with the Ricoh etc. Nothing is certain.

Otis · May 21, 2016

stupot07 said:
If we got promoted to the Championship I would put money on us being relegated within 3 seasons. Our turnover even at the Ricoh will be one of the lowest in the league.

We have absolutely no detail of thr proposed stadium, I just don't get how everyone can write it off before we do. We aren't going to get what we want or need from wasps, sonwe have to explore all options properly. I'm not saying I'm for it, I'm saying in open to the idea in principle.

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I don't think people are writing it off. They are just looking at the location, scratching their heads and wondering how on earth it is feasible and the sunken pitch to me has very much an Arena 2000 'retractable roof' feel to it.

ccfc92 · May 21, 2016

Can the OP or someone voting yes, show their workings on how a 15,000 Butts stadium will provide us with 365 day revenues that will help the club progress.

Just can't see much non-matchday revenues being raised myself, which is what we need.

skybluetony176 · May 21, 2016

Otis said:
I don't think people are writing it off. They are just looking at the location, scratching their heads and wondering how on earth it is feasible and the sunken pitch to me has very much an Arena 2000 'retractable roof' feel to it.

I'm certainly not writing anything of, including staying at the Ricoh. As for the Butts I've stated I like the location and actually agree with cheifdave on car parking issues. The problem I have is the suggested 15K capacity with a fingers crossed approach that we'll be able to increase capacity at a later date. It's completely counter intuitive to the thinking of the rest of the football world where upsize not downsize is king, it takes CCFC two steps back in it's history with it's least ambitious ground in it's history making attending an elitist event that will drive the community away rather than draw it in .

It's a disaster waiting to happen Imo. I wouldn't trust SISU for one minute to push ahead and increase capacity when it was needed, I have big doubts it would ever pass planning and our partners at the BPA clearly from their statement don't have an appetite to build larger than 15K. What could possibly go wrong?

stupot07 · May 21, 2016

Otis said:
Happy chappy aren't we!!

Thing is Stu, we have no idea what will happen should we go up. Maybe Sisu will bog off, maybe we will make a fist of it, maybe not.

I don't see why we can't make a go of it in the Championship. Who knows what will happen with the Ricoh etc. Nothing is certain.

We have been told by the club and other football finance experts the model doesn't work in the championship. We also know from benchmarking our accounts thah we will have one of the lowest turnovers in the championship. Its not pessimism.

Sisu aren't going to bog off until someone stupid enough will pay them what they want, which isn't likely to happen when we have no real assets and one of the lowest turnovers in the championship.

Nothing is certain, but it seems that the reasons for writing off the butts is based on its and buts. Until we have seen the fiancial plan for the butts (or any other new ground) vs staying at the Ricoh we just cant right things off right now.

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ccfc92 · May 21, 2016

stupot07 said:
We have been told by the club and other football finance experts the model doesn't work in the championship. We also know from benchmarking our accounts thah we will have one of the lowest turnovers in the championship. Its not pessimism.

Sisu aren't going to bog off until someone stupid enough will pay them what they want, which isn't likely to happen when we have no real assets and one of the lowest turnovers in the championship.

Nothing is certain, but it seems that the reasons for writing off the butts is based on its and buts. Until we have seen the fiancial plan for the butts (or any other new ground) vs staying at the Ricoh we just cant right things off right now.

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How will the Butts increase our revenues significantly?

chiefdave · May 21, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
The problem I have is the suggested 15K capacity with a fingers crossed approach that we'll be able to increase capacity at a later date.

I think you have to have a solid plan for how the capacity will be increased. So either the MK empty tier approach or the Brighton approach where they could fill in the corners.

Doesn't mean SISU will actually do it but as long as it is built in to the design to be easily and cheaply possible I think we'd be OK.

If, and obviously its a huge if, this comes off I don't think we'll see SISU sticking around much longer.

dongonzalos · May 21, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
I'll do better than that Nick..... Here you are, taken from a big article made by the BBC....
For the majority of Sky Blues fans, this will be their first 'home' game since 20 April 2013.

For the minority who made the 68-mile round trip to Northampton to watch City play at the Sixfields Stadium during the 2013-14 season, life will suddenly seem a lot less complicated.

And for the owners of the Ricoh and the club who both, in their own separate ways, lost an entire season's worth of revenue, it is time to forget about what has been lost and concentrate on the club's future, back where they should be.

City's average home gates for the past decade
Championship: 2004-05 - 16,048 (final year at Highfield Road)
Championship: 2005-06 - 21,302 (first season at Ricoh Arena)
Championship: 2006-07 - 20,342
Championship: 2007-08 - 19,123
Championship: 2008-09 - 17,451
Championship: 2009-10 - 17,305
Championship: 2010-11 - 16,309
Championship: 2011-12 - 15,118 (relegated to League One)
League One: 2012-13 - 10,864
League One: 2013-14 - 2,348 (Sixfields)
"It's still very much the club's focus and intention to own its own ground in order to access the revenues that come with it," said City's Tim Fisher, who took over as chairman this week in a boardroom reshuffle which saw Steve Waggott take on the role of chief executive.

The Ricoh Arena may not necessarily have proved as popular as Highfield Road when it first opened but, after all the City fans have been through, it will sure feel like home now - as they finally start the longer, more relevant journey of what they hope will be a trip back to the top flight of English football - an experience last tasted in 2001.

If those stats are right and the next time we are in the championship it will be off the back of a promotion and the optimism that brings with it.
15k will be the biggest waste of a potential increase in the supporter base off the back of a promotion

Nick · May 21, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
I'll do better than that Nick..... Here you are, taken from a big article made by the BBC....
For the majority of Sky Blues fans, this will be their first 'home' game since 20 April 2013.

For the minority who made the 68-mile round trip to Northampton to watch City play at the Sixfields Stadium during the 2013-14 season, life will suddenly seem a lot less complicated.

And for the owners of the Ricoh and the club who both, in their own separate ways, lost an entire season's worth of revenue, it is time to forget about what has been lost and concentrate on the club's future, back where they should be.

City's average home gates for the past decade
Championship: 2004-05 - 16,048 (final year at Highfield Road)
Championship: 2005-06 - 21,302 (first season at Ricoh Arena)
Championship: 2006-07 - 20,342
Championship: 2007-08 - 19,123
Championship: 2008-09 - 17,451
Championship: 2009-10 - 17,305
Championship: 2010-11 - 16,309
Championship: 2011-12 - 15,118 (relegated to League One)
League One: 2012-13 - 10,864
League One: 2013-14 - 2,348 (Sixfields)
"It's still very much the club's focus and intention to own its own ground in order to access the revenues that come with it," said City's Tim Fisher, who took over as chairman this week in a boardroom reshuffle which saw Steve Waggott take on the role of chief executive.

The Ricoh Arena may not necessarily have proved as popular as Highfield Road when it first opened but, after all the City fans have been through, it will sure feel like home now - as they finally start the longer, more relevant journey of what they hope will be a trip back to the top flight of English football - an experience last tasted in 2001.

All well and good, but he was on about the other Gillingham match where we beat them 4-1 and attendances were still dropping.

Otis · May 21, 2016

stupot07 said:
We have been told by the club and other football finance experts the model doesn't work in the championship. We also know from benchmarking our accounts thah we will have one of the lowest turnovers in the championship. Its not pessimism.

Sisu aren't going to bog off until someone stupid enough will pay them what they want, which isn't likely to happen when we have no real assets and one of the lowest turnovers in the championship.

Nothing is certain, but it seems that the reasons for writing off the butts is based on its and buts. Until we have seen the fiancial plan for the butts (or any other new ground) vs staying at the Ricoh we just cant right things off right now.

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As. I say, I don't think anyone is writing off the Butts. It just doesn't at all look feasible though and an awful lot of us think the same.

Blank canvas, brilliant! But a small space in the location that it's in, where expansion may well prove impossible?

Think people are just being sensible. Not completely writing it off, but not believing it is feasible or will ever happen.

Can't see much difference here to every other location and suggestion ever mooted or hinted at by the club.

Looks to me like this is going to cost an awful lot more money than building on wasteland somewhere.

stupot07 · May 21, 2016

ccfc92 said:
How will the Butts increase our revenues significantly?

I don't know yet, which is why I say I agree in principle but need to see the financial facts.

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dongonzalos · May 21, 2016

stupot07 said:
I don't know yet, which is why I say I agree in principle but need to see the financial facts.

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Will we get to see a business plan for it?

stupot07 · May 21, 2016

dongonzalos said:
Will we get to see a business plan for it?

I'm sure when the club have made a decision on the best way forward either renting off wasps or new ground, they will tell us or at least the SCG why they have made the decision.

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chiefdave · May 21, 2016

dongonzalos said:
Will we get to see a business plan for it?

Fisher is going to do a presentation in three weeks :nailbiting:

RegTheDonk · May 21, 2016

stupot07 said:
Can people stop going on about 100k rent, that was part if the 2+2 year agreement, agreed prior to wasps buying the Ricoh, there's no chance the rent will stay that low when we extend our deal beyond 2018.

I guess Tim and Herman need to get working those BPA blueprints, cause if WASPs do up the rent at their earliest opportunity, we'll be back to bluff and counter-bluffs again...maybe even Sixfields?

ccfc92 said:
Can the OP or someone voting yes, show their workings on how a 15,000 Butts stadium will provide us with 365 day revenues that will help the club progress.

Just can't see much non-matchday revenues being raised myself, which is what we need.

I'd also like to have the projections shown ccfc92, maybe they already have at some point, there MUST surely be some mega revenue streams worth spending millions on developing the Butts or another venue, so the club can rent it from SISU a lot cheaper than WASPs' 100K a year.

dongonzalos · May 21, 2016

stupot07 said:
I'm sure when the club have made a decision on the best way forward either renting off wasps or new ground, they will tell us or at least the SCG why they have made the decision.

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When we returned to the Ricoh we were not allowed to see the business plan for that
Or when we went to Sixfields
Lots of times I have said I would love to see a projected business plan of how building a new stadium if viable, however we never got to see that.
I don't expect to see one to be fair as I don't think that is the norm.

Nick · May 21, 2016

Actual question (not sarcasm).

What have other clubs done in the situation of new stadiums? Have they shown in an depth business plan to fans with facts and figures and asked their permission?

Deleted member 5849 · May 21, 2016

dongonzalos said:
Lots of times I have said I would love to see a projected business plan of how building a new stadium if viable, however we never got to see that.
I don't expect to see one to be fair as I don't think that is the norm.

I'd love just for once, for us to focus on the cultural case.

Clubs as commodities will die without culture.

dongonzalos · May 21, 2016

RegTheDonk said:
I guess Tim and Herman need to get working those BPA blueprints, cause if WASPs do up the rent at their earliest opportunity, we'll be back to bluff and counter-bluffs again...maybe even Sixfields?

I'd also like to have the projections shown ccfc92, maybe they already have at some point, there MUST surely be some mega revenue streams worth spending millions on developing the Butts or another venue, so the club can rent it from SISU a lot cheaper than WASPs' 100K a year.

I am sure if there was a consideration of us ground sharing elsewhere again, because of what happened last time we would need to show that Wasps have asked for something completely unacceptable.
We would also have to show progress on the plan, such as the Butts.
Imagine though if we end up at Sixfields and we have years of planning application battles with CCC.
Which if it wasn't our fault, I am sure the football authorities would have to keep extending our stay.
That would be a nightmare

Nick · May 21, 2016

Deleted member 5849 said:
I'd love just for once, for us to focus on the cultural case.

Clubs as commodities will die without culture.

Agree with that, heart of the city alongside the city's own Rugby club. Walk to it from town, get the bus to town and walk to it.

Imagine how it will help the town centre as well!

chiefdave · May 21, 2016

Nick said:
What have other clubs done in the situation of new stadiums?

The only club I can think of that have given any sort of detailed financial information was when Everton put that long explanation on their website of where the money had gone.

Nick · May 21, 2016

dongonzalos said:
I am sure if there was a consideration of us ground sharing elsewhere again, because of what happened last time we would need to show that Wasps have asked for something completely unacceptable.
We would also have to show progress on the plan, such as the Butts.
Imagine though if we end up at Sixfields and we have years of planning application battles with CCC.
Which if it wasn't our fault, I am sure the football authorities would have to keep extending our stay.
That would be a nightmare

If it wasn't our fault you would think our fans and local media would be putting that much pressure on the council they would have to cave in.

dongonzalos · May 21, 2016

Nick said:
Agree with that, heart of the city alongside the city's own Rugby club. Walk to it from town, get the bus to town and walk to it.

Imagine how it will help the town centre as well!

It would be a massive boost to the town centre, I also think we would get a load of addition transient student fans.

So the real Poll (2 Viewers)

If it is a 15,000 capacity to start should we push to move from the Ricoh?

Yes

No

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