Spy Poisoning (1 Viewer)

Grendel · Apr 3, 2018

Otis said:
Daft analogy. DNA evidence proved Huntley was guilty. Lots ofoforensic evidence such as the fibres from the girls' Man U tops being on nis clothing.There was two way transfer of fibres that proved significant physical contact between Huntley and the girls.

I can only relay what my missus tells me, cos I don't speak Russian, but they are saying the scientist bloke who made this Novichok agent left the Soviet Union and went to the US and it could have been reproduced elsewhere.

I did look that up and there have been claims that how to make Novichok was released on the internet.

Not saying I believe that and me and my missus have had a right old ding dong about it, because I have been saying it must be the Russians, but from an in high political standpoint I believe you have to have more certainty than 'highly likely.'

Actually the Russians main claim now is that Britain did it as a way of distracting from Brexit. What do you think.

Perhaps also you can ask your wife if she believes Mr Putin when he said that Russian troops never invaded Cheznia and the pictures were of people who had stolen military uniforms.

In the end it’s recognised by the global community that Russia hire assassins to kill enemies of the state for their own political purposes. That’s why at this point it’s reacted.

It’s only highly likely Litvenko was murdered by a political assassin - no conviction has been made.

Otis · Apr 3, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
Was the response of the global community based on supposition and presumed facts sold to them by Boris and May or actual facts?

It will be interesting to see how the global community responds to the now known facts. This potentially has diplomatic disaster written all over it and if that happens a more cautious approach as suggested by someone else instead of a all guns blazing will be proven to be the right course of action.

Yep. In these situations surely the only approach is the cautious approach until you have hard facts.

That seemingly is not the case. Highly likely, yes, and I agree with that, but you have to be so careful here, especially when we have hotheads like Trump and Putin in power.

Grendel · Apr 3, 2018

Otis said:
Yep. In these situations surely the only approach is the cautious approach until you have hard facts.

That seemingly is not the case. Highly likely, yes, and I agree with that, but you have to be so careful here, especially when we have hotheads like Trump and Putin in power.

So what hard facts are there? Will the Russians allow the chemical agencies to inspect its chemical weaponary to find a definitive match? I assume they will won’t they?

Otis · Apr 3, 2018

Grendel said:
Actually the Russians main claim now is that Britain did it as a way of distracting from Brexit. What do you think.

Perhaps also you can ask your wife if she believes Mr Putin when he said that Russian troops never invaded Cheznia and the pictures were of people who had stolen military uniforms.

In the end it’s recognised by the global community that Russia hire assassins to kill enemies of the state for their own political purposes. That’s why at this point it’s reacted.

It’s only highly likely Litvenko was murdered by a political assassin - no conviction has been made.

Yes, because they cannot pinpoint who did it.

I have had big rows with the wife over Putin. I cannot stand the man and we over here know him as the Butcher of Chechyna.

I don't trust Putin at all. Not for a single minute.

Yep, they did say Britain could have done it themselves, but they are now no longer saying that.

skybluetony176 · Apr 3, 2018

Grendel said:
What proof would you want?

The Russians of course will laugh because Putin needs to demonstrate some strength and power and these sort of rather pointless acts of criminality are the only way he can do so.

I do find this amusing though as you once said Ken Livingstone was not a supporter of hitter as he said he wasn’t.

Talking about murder trials on that basis were you one of those who didn’t find Ian Huntley guilty. After all he can’t be - Ian said he didn’t do it.

You really are a distasteful moron.

Grendel · Apr 3, 2018

Otis said:
Yes, because they cannot pinpoint who did it.

I have had big rows with the wife over Putin. I cannot stand the man and we over here know him as the Butcher of Chechyna.

I don't trust Putin at all. Not for a single minute.

Yep, they did say Britain could have done it themselves, but they are now no longer saying that.

The Russian foreign minister made that claim yesterday

Do keep up

Otis · Apr 3, 2018

Grendel said:
The Russian foreign minister made that claim yesterday

Do keep up

News to me.

Just asked the missus and she said he suggested that it is a possibility.

You are getting away from the point anyway. I cannot stand the Russian government or Putin and I don't trust them at all.

Proof is needed though. This latest news has not produced any proof.

Otis · Apr 3, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
You really are a distasteful moron.

He does come with some very odd comparisons.

Grendel · Apr 3, 2018

Otis said:
News to me.

Just asked the missus and she said he suggested that it is a possibility.

You are getting away from the point anyway. I cannot stand the Russian government or Putin and I don't trust them at all.

Proof is needed though. This latest news has not produced any proof.

What is proof?

skybluetony176 · Apr 3, 2018

Grendel said:
This isn’t a trial is it

That’s true. In a trial you present ALL the evidence before deciding on the best course of action.

Grendel · Apr 3, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
You really are a distasteful moron.

Hello Tony. You are aware that there was only a majority verdict at that trial - so for some there was not enough evidence was there? For some there never will be - will there.

wingy · Apr 3, 2018

Grendel said:
Actually the Russians main claim now is that Britain did it as a way of distracting from Brexit. What do you think.

Perhaps also you can ask your wife if she believes Mr Putin when he said that Russian troops never invaded Cheznia and the pictures were of people who had stolen military uniforms.

In the end it’s recognised by the global community that Russia hire assassins to kill enemies of the state for their own political purposes. That’s why at this point it’s reacted.

It’s only highly likely Litvenko was murdered by a political assassin - no conviction has been made.

All historical events, let pass, there inclusion alongside this event have only weakened the argument from our GOVT, as I raised earlier in the thread.
A little circumspection is huge asset to hold in life .
However that apart, nothing is complete or proven either way on this matter .

Otis · Apr 3, 2018

wingy said:
All historical events, let pass, there inclusion alongside this event have only weakened the argument from our GOVT, as I raised earlier in the thread.
A little circumspection is huge asset to hold in life .
However that apart, nothing is complete or proven either way on this matter .

Spot on.

covmark · Apr 3, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
Was the response of the global community based on supposition and presumed facts sold to them by Boris and May or actual facts?

It will be interesting to see how the global community responds to the now known facts. This potentially has diplomatic disaster written all over it and if that happens a more cautious approach as suggested by someone else instead of a all guns blazing will be proven to be the right course of action.

You really think the global community has acted the way it has because of what Boris and May has said? Jesus wept
You don't think that all of our intelligence services are communicating with each other. Sharing info, and and gaining info from other sources.
If you think the global community are acting on the say so of May and that mad fucker Boris, then you are extremely naive. If not stupid.

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Grendel · Apr 3, 2018

Otis said:
Spot on.

I’ll ask again - what evidence do you want?

Grendel · Apr 3, 2018

covmark said:
You really think the global community has acted the way it has because of what Boris and May has said? Jesus wept
You don't think that all of our intelligence services are communicating with each other. Sharing info, and and gaining info from other sources.
If you think the global community are acting on the say so of May and that mad fucker Boris, then you are extremely naive. If not stupid.

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I know - it’s embarrassing

Gazolba · Apr 3, 2018

Otis said:
<snip>

Proof is needed though. This latest news has not produced any proof.

The proof is there is no proof. if anyone else had done it, there'd be proof, but the Russians make sure there isn't any.
Whoever did it has already disappeared - permanently.

wingy · Apr 3, 2018

covmark said:
You really think the global community has acted the way it has because of what Boris and May has said? Jesus wept
You don't think that all of our intelligence services are communicating with each other. Sharing info, and and gaining info from other sources.
If you think the global community are acting on the say so of May and that mad fucker Boris, then you are extremely naive. If not stupid.

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Yes surprisingly some of the smaller States within Europe expressed it being the words of the Prime Minister that convinced them based on our 'Intelegence'.

wingy · Apr 3, 2018

Gazolba said:
The proof is there is no proof. if anyone else had done it, there'd be proof, but the Russians make sure there isn't any.
Whoever did it has already disappeared - permanently.

Perversely, apart from the two victims of it.

skybluetony176 · Apr 3, 2018

covmark said:
You really think the global community has acted the way it has because of what Boris and May has said? Jesus wept
You don't think that all of our intelligence services are communicating with each other. Sharing info, and and gaining info from other sources.
If you think the global community are acting on the say so of May and that mad fucker Boris, then you are extremely naive. If not stupid.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

We’re you either asleep or not born when our then serving government was presenting the case for the Iraq invasion? I was born but not awake in the sense that I didn’t have the life experience to see what was plainly in sight at that time in my life. What was in sight was that the government was winging it and mispresenting “evidence” to sell us a line. The smart ones didn’t buy it and did things like go on anti war marches and got labelled as unpatriotic, cowards, ignorant etc etc from all directions.

Any of this sounding familiar?

Sick Boy · Apr 3, 2018

martcov said:
I heard a scientist on the radio saying that they can pinpoint where the potassium comes from according to isotopes. Each area in the world where potassium is found is different. If that is so, they must now know where it originated from. I can’t help thinking we’ve been set up.

You'll have some on here looking to blame it on the EU

skybluetony176 · Apr 3, 2018

Grendel said:
Hello Tony. You are aware that there was only a majority verdict at that trial - so for some there was not enough evidence was there? For some there never will be - will there.

I am aware that you’re a distasteful moron. To even consider bringing the murder of two young innocent girls at the hands of a peadophile into an argument about an ex Russian spy being poisoned. Seriously. What’s wrong with you? You’re sick.

Grendel · Apr 3, 2018

wingy said:
Perversely, apart from the two victims of it.

There are 3 and I assume a nerve agent has less than positive effects on the mind.

Otis · Apr 3, 2018

Grendel said:
I’ll ask again - what evidence do you want?

Something better than highly likely.

Think we were all hoping for more clarity. This latest statement has not provided that.

covmark · Apr 3, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
We’re you either asleep or not born when our then serving government was presenting the case for the Iraq invasion? I was born but not awake in the sense that I didn’t have the life experience to see what was plainly in sight at that time in my life. What was in sight was that the government was winging it and mispresenting “evidence” to sell us a line. The smart ones didn’t buy it and did things like go on anti war marches and got labelled as unpatriotic, cowards, ignorant etc etc from all directions.

Any of this sounding familiar?

It's completely different and you know it. In your rush to want to side with Mr Corbyn, you will believe any crap he comes out with.
The fact chemical weapons were used on our streets (literally a couple of miles from my house) makes this different.
Chemical weapons were never used by Saddam. Blair was pushed into that bullshit by the halfwit Bush. For reasons we all know.

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wingy · Apr 3, 2018

Grendel said:
There are 3 and I assume a nerve agent has less than positive effects on the mind.

You're right.
Did Nick Bailey touch the door handle?
Think I read he visited their home?
Yulia seems coherent If reports are accurate.

Grendel · Apr 3, 2018

Otis said:
Something better than highly likely.

Think we were all hoping for more clarity. This latest statement has not provided that.

What? So a picture of some bloke with a Stalin mask and a bottle with a skull and crossbones thrown at them? What?

Grendel · Apr 3, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
I am aware that you’re a distasteful moron. To even consider bringing the murder of two young innocent girls at the hands of a peadophile into an argument about an ex Russian spy being poisoned. Seriously. What’s wrong with you? You’re sick.

It’s nothing to do with that is it? It’s to do with the fact that in spite the massive weight of evidence there’s always some idiot prepared to give the benefit of the doubt. Sound familiar?

skybluetony176 · Apr 3, 2018

covmark said:
It's completely different and you know it. In your rush to want to side with Mr Corbyn, you will believe any crap he comes out with.
The fact chemical weapons were used on our streets (literally a couple of miles from my house) makes this different.
Chemical weapons were never used by Saddam. Blair was pushed into that bullshit by the halfwit Bush. For reasons we all know.

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The circumstances of the event are different. The spin, the desperation of the government to look tough in the first instance without facts are all familiar and should be a warning given we’ve seen it before.

Blair wasn’t pushed into anything. If anything he bargained his way into presidings with the dressed up dossier in much the same way as an unpopular kid at school bargained his way into a house party because he could get his hands on alcohol. Don’t give Blair the free get out of blaming Bush please. Blair hasn’t earned it.

martcov · Apr 3, 2018

Grendel said:
It’s nothing to do with that is it? It’s to do with the fact that in spite the massive weight of evidence there’s always some idiot prepared to give the benefit of the doubt. Sound familiar?

An expert scientist says we cannot pin it 100% on Russia.

So, what do we have left as a massive weight of evidence?

skybluetony176 · Apr 3, 2018

Grendel said:
It’s nothing to do with that is it? It’s to do with the fact that in spite the massive weight of evidence there’s always some idiot prepared to give the benefit of the doubt. Sound familiar?

It’s everything to do with that. If you had an argument that is either worth making or you have the intelligence to make it you wouldn’t be using distasteful and irrelevant comparisons. Hence your a distasteful moron and keep proving it every time you open your mouth.

Grendel · Apr 3, 2018

martcov said:
An expert scientist says we cannot pin it 100% on Russia.

So, what do we have left as a massive weight of evidence?

He’s Russian he’s been poisoned by a Russian nerve agent, every country supports a stance by Britain based on behind closed door discussions and transfer of confidential information

I know you hate Britain and would love it if done great conspiracy came out but there isn’t. Given all your dribbling Euro mates even agree with May this is lunacy that exceeds no bounds.

What proof would you like out of interest?

martcov · Apr 3, 2018

Grendel said:
He’s Russian he’s been poisoned by a Russian nerve agent, every country supports a stance by Britain based on behind closed door discussions and transfer of confidential information

I know you hate Britain and would love it if done great conspiracy came out but there isn’t. Given all your dribbling Euro mates even agree with May this is lunacy that exceeds no bounds.

What proof would you like out of interest?

„Russia’s embassy in London responded that Porton Down’s assessment “proves that all political declarations on the Russian origin of the crime are nothing but assumptions not stemming from objective facts or the course of the investigation”.“

An answer to this Russian statement would be a start. I hope we have the answers. That is the opposite of hating Britain. I hope our government does know what it is doing. I don’t want the UK ending up alone.

Otis · Apr 3, 2018

Grendel said:
What? So a picture of some bloke with a Stalin mask and a bottle with a skull and crossbones thrown at them? What?

Statement today hasn't offered any proof.

Why are you asking me what the proof should be? Neither of us is an expert in nerve agents or chemical weapons.

The authorities must know what delivers the burden of proof. Seemingly we do not have it.

I am sure it WAS the Russians, but we are dealing with a major global power here.

They are laughing at us and the 'highly likely' comment and are coming back with 'It's highly Boris Johnson is an idiot' kind of stuff.

The statement today has not provided any proof and has left the waters muddy. Our government was expecting some definitive proof from this. They haven't got it.

covmark · Apr 3, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
The circumstances of the event are different. The spin, the desperation of the government to look tough in the first instance without facts are all familiar and should be a warning given we’ve seen it before.

Blair wasn’t pushed into anything. If anything he bargained his way into presidings with the dressed up dossier in much the same way as an unpopular kid at school bargained his way into a house party because he could get his hands on alcohol. Don’t give Blair the free get out of blaming Bush please. Blair hasn’t earned it.

Ok pushes was maybe the wrong expression. Coaxed would be more apt. Nevertheless it was an American led offensive. This is completely different.

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