Square pegs in round holes (1 Viewer)

rob9872 · Aug 22, 2018

Why do we always do it?

Wingers as strikers are set up to fail, as are othe positions trying to accommodate better players in unfamiliar roles rather than having a first choice and being brave enough to leave players out.

Not rocket science, no fancy formations that players are not used to, but tried and tested success at this level is 442 where one of the two is a natural goalscorer playing off a big lump. Not nice number 10s or false no 9 or wing backs or 3 at the back or any if that nonsense.

Get the right personnel and keep it simple. It worked last season in L2 and I maintain for most teams, theres not much between L1 & L2 having watched atrocious L1 football for a few years pre-relegation. The bigger jump is to the Championship.

You lose McNulty, fine. Replace like for like and continue moving forward. No need to rip it up and reinvent the wheel.

Otis · Aug 22, 2018

Maybe Robins was told by his recruitment guys that Bakayoko was a like for like for McNulty.

Liquid Gold · Aug 22, 2018

I can understand us being forced into it during an injury crisis or something but to start the season like this is baffling.

Liquid Gold · Aug 22, 2018

Otis said:
Maybe Robins was told by his recruitment guys that Bakayoko was a like for like for McNulty.

McNulty was useless up top on his own too.

Otis · Aug 22, 2018

You kind of get the feeling that Robins is baffled too.

Otis · Aug 22, 2018

Liquid Gold said:
McNulty was useless up top on his own too.

And they are both foreign too.

Nick · Aug 22, 2018

I think his headache is caused by Andreu and Bayliss.

McNulty found form when he had Biamou to do all of his dirty work for him, he rarely had a sniff for the first half of the season.

JulianDarbyFTW · Aug 22, 2018

Last year the squad grew together, a real team spirit helping drive them forward. This season, we're hearing about bad apples in the cart, and some are players who've only just arrived. Assuming that's true, the recruitment / management team have made big mistakes, and that's before we start on the dubious formation and selection issues.

Covstu · Aug 22, 2018

its similar to a lot of squads trying to accommodate the 'big' players and others get displaced as a result, united are doing this as we speak and England did it for years to accommodate Gerard/Lampard to name just two.

Otis · Aug 22, 2018

JulianDarbyFTW said:
Last year the squad grew together, a real team spirit helping drive them forward. This season, we're hearing about bad apples in the cart, and some are players who've only just arrived. Assuming that's true, the recruitment / management team have made big mistakes, and that's before we start on the dubious formation and selection issues.

Team spirit is so important. I've heard so many managers allude to it. Great team spirit and comaraderie are vital to a successful team's fortunes.

If we have indeed brought in players who are upsetting that equilibrium, the recruitment team should be put up against a wall and slapped about a bit with a wet kipper.

Be very annoying if we now have disruption in the dressing room.

SonofErnie · Aug 22, 2018

Nick said:
I think his headache is caused by Andreu and Bayliss.

McNulty found form when he had Biamou to do all of his dirty work for him, he rarely had a sniff for the first half of the season.

Partly agree, but also think we don’t need 2 deep lying midfielders. The gap from the front to the back is too big and consequently we end up playing a long ball forward with the ball coming straight back most of the time.

SkyBlueCRJ · Aug 22, 2018

Nick said:
I think his headache is caused by Andreu and Bayliss.

McNulty found form when he had Biamou to do all of his dirty work for him, he rarely had a sniff for the first half of the season.

Not sure I agree. Bayliss has nothing to do with his headache. It's MR's obsession with Andreu and the formation he fits into that's causing the entire problem. The square pegs in round holes conundrum is as a result of MR trying to squeeze him in. Remove Andreu from the squad, play a 442, slot Bayliss into his natural position as CM and the problem goes away.

If Andreu scored a goal or registered an assist a game I'd understand revolving a team around him. But if it's affecting a the team as a whole then surely the most logical solution is remove that player from the equation. MR needs to understand the utilitarian approach of the greatest good for the greatest number. If you injure your leg and you get gangrene, do you keep the leg and risk your life or do you just cut it off and get better? If I'm completely honest from the first 4 games I'm not convinced by Andreu whatsoever. I understand he's been on the sidelines for nearly a year with his ACL injury and it's obvious he has talent but not to the extent where he should be made a priority in the starting XI.

cc84cov · Aug 22, 2018

Team spirit must be poor within the players stories of fall outs with Burge & JCH Last seasons promotion squad just dropped its not on tbh them lads should of been given the chance to start the season.I think Viveash is causing problems with this system he’s pushing.

Otis · Aug 22, 2018

JamesCCFC said:
Not sure I agree. Bayliss has nothing to do with his headache. It's MR's obsession with Andreu and the formation he fits into that's causing the entire problem. The square pegs in round holes conundrum is as a result of MR trying to squeeze him in. Remove Andreu from the squad, play a 442, slot Bayliss into his natural position as CM and the problem goes away.

If Andreu scored a goal or registered an assist a game I'd understand revolving a team around him. But if it's affecting a the team as a whole then surely the most logical solution is remove that player from the equation. MR needs to understand the utilitarian approach of the greatest good for the greatest number. If you injure your leg and you get gangrene, do you keep the leg and risk your life or do you just cut it off and get better? If I'm completely honest from the first 4 games I'm not convinced by Andreu whatsoever. I understand he's been on the sidelines for nearly a year with his ACL injury and it's obvious he has talent but not to the extent where he should be made a priority in the starting XI.

Andreu wasn't picked last night though and didn't play against Oxford either, so that doesn't explain those two awful performances.

robbiekeane · Aug 22, 2018

JamesCCFC said:
Remove Andreu from the squad, play a 442, slot Bayliss into his natural position as CM and the problem goes away.

Don't they play the same position, CAM?

SkyBlueCRJ · Aug 22, 2018

Otis said:
Andreu wasn't picked last night though and didn't play against Oxford either, so that doesn't explain those two awful performances.

No it doesn't explain the awful performances but you've misunderstood because I'm not suggesting that. What I am suggesting is that we're still using the formation where it favours a player of Andreu's ilk despite the fact that we're performing awfully as you've rightly suggested.

He wasn't selected for the Oxford game or last night's fixture simply because MR doesn't want to over play him. The commentators last night confirmed this. If Andreu remains fully fit over the next month or so expect him to start more as for whatever reason MR and AV believe the sun shines out of his arse despite the fact he's done nothing in 3 games to suggest he's a class above the rest. So, similarly, expect strikers and natural CM's to continue to be played on the wing whilst this happens.

SkyBlueCRJ · Aug 22, 2018

robbiekeane said:
Don't they play the same position, CAM?

Bayliss can play CAM but he's just as competent as CM. He played CM when he broke into the first team but due to our injury crisis last season he was pushed out on the right, ultimately squashing all of his attributes. Andreu on the other hand hasn't got the same versatility as he's far more forward thinking in the mould of a CAM or a second striker.

Magwitch · Aug 22, 2018

I watched our first two games and imo Andreu was our m-o-m in the first and okay in the second, Ogogo very close to him our midfield needs to be built around these two and a fit Kelly. Lot of time for Michael Doyle but at 37 he’s not the future.

Nick · Aug 22, 2018

JamesCCFC said:
Bayliss can play CAM but he's just as competent as CM. He played CM when he broke into the first team but due to our injury crisis last season he was pushed out on the right, ultimately squashing all of his attributes. Andreu on the other hand hasn't got the same versatility as he's far more forward thinking in the mould of a CAM or a second striker.

You didn't watch against Oxford then? Bayliss got turned every time and invited pressure.

JulianDarbyFTW · Aug 22, 2018

I'd argue that 4-4-2 fits if you play Andreu as the second striker, but that leaves Bayliss having to play alongside Doyle / Kelly / Ogogo, and I'm not sure that works. So Bayliss has to get shoved onto the right hand side of midfield again so that we have a stronger central area.

Nick · Aug 22, 2018

JulianDarbyFTW said:
I'd argue that 4-4-2 fits if you play Andreu as the second striker, but that leaves Bayliss having to play alongside Doyle / Kelly / Ogogo, and I'm not sure that works. So Bayliss has to get shoved onto the right hand side of midfield again so that we have a stronger central area.

Meanwhile we have somebody like Thomas who then gets dropped who is an actual right midfielder. What happens when Jones comes back?

SkyBlueCRJ · Aug 22, 2018

Nick said:
You didn't watch against Oxford then? Bayliss got turned every time and invited pressure.

Didn't we play a 3-5-2 in that game?

fernandopartridge · Aug 22, 2018

SonofErnie said:
Partly agree, but also think we don’t need 2 deep lying midfielders. The gap from the front to the back is too big and consequently we end up playing a long ball forward with the ball coming straight back most of the time.

We need two players in midfield who can put themselves about, Bayliss cannot do this. They don't necessarily need to be deep lying but must be able to win the ball back.

Liquid Gold · Aug 22, 2018

JamesCCFC said:
Didn't we play a 3-5-2 in that game?

No, Sterling played on the right wing in front of Grimmer

Nick · Aug 22, 2018

JamesCCFC said:
Didn't we play a 3-5-2 in that game?

It was more a 4-2-4

JulianDarbyFTW · Aug 22, 2018

Nick said:
Meanwhile we have somebody like Thomas who then gets dropped who is an actual right midfielder. What happens when Jones comes back?

Yep. There's no easy answer if you try to cram all of the so-called best players into a formation. It should be simple: pick the best team, not the best players.

CovUpNorth · Aug 22, 2018

JamesCCFC said:
Not sure I agree. Bayliss has nothing to do with his headache. It's MR's obsession with Andreu and the formation he fits into that's causing the entire problem. The square pegs in round holes conundrum is as a result of MR trying to squeeze him in. Remove Andreu from the squad, play a 442, slot Bayliss into his natural position as CM and the problem goes away.

If Andreu scored a goal or registered an assist a game I'd understand revolving a team around him. But if it's affecting a the team as a whole then surely the most logical solution is remove that player from the equation. MR needs to understand the utilitarian approach of the greatest good for the greatest number. If you injure your leg and you get gangrene, do you keep the leg and risk your life or do you just cut it off and get better? If I'm completely honest from the first 4 games I'm not convinced by Andreu whatsoever. I understand he's been on the sidelines for nearly a year with his ACL injury and it's obvious he has talent but not to the extent where he should be made a priority in the starting XI.

Andreu started on the bench last night?

SkyBlueCRJ · Aug 22, 2018

Nick said:
It was more a 4-2-4

Right. So players were once again played completely out of position. Wasn't Sterling, (the right back who refuses to get forward), played on the wing? And wasn't Hiwula again was deployed out on the left where it's clear he feels uncomfortable?

I think it's unfair to judge Bayliss on one game in that position when from reports the whole team played poorly - I don't need to watch the game to establish that. If I remember rightly the reports actually suggested he was the best out of a bad bunch. So to respond to that point just because I didn't watch the game Nick doesn't mean I can't read or lack in friends that attend games.

Despite that, and yes it was in a different league but when Bayliss was deployed in the centre alongside Doyle upon his breakthrough he flourished. What's the reason MR cannot do this again when we actually have the players to fit in this formation?

MR choosing formations that seem to make our players look appalling footballers is bad management no matter what spin you put on it. So rather than try and fit players into formations that in fact don't fit or rely on the 4-2-3-1 to suit Andreu, just stick with one formation that works and work on another as a plan B.

SkyBlueCRJ · Aug 22, 2018

CovUpNorth said:
Andreu started on the bench last night?

Yet we still played a formation that favours a player of his ilk, which cost us again.

I reiterate. He was on the bench as a precautionary measure. If MR continues fielding this formation expect him to start more regularly.

Limey · Aug 22, 2018

Been thinking about this most of the day.
Burge
Grimmer----Willis---Davies----Brown
Jones---Ogogo---Bayliss----Shipley
Andreu
Hiwula

Jones obviously not ready so give Allasani that role until fit. I suspect Robins hasnt included Allasani yet if his fitness isn't up to scratch yet from non league.
Kelly, JCH, Hyam, Bakayoko from the bench gives enough options to switch it up.

Nick · Aug 22, 2018

Limey said:
Been thinking about this most of the day.
Burge
Grimmer----Willis---Davies----Brown
Jones---Ogogo---Bayliss----Shipley
Andreu
Hiwula

Jones obviously not ready so give Allasani that role until fit. I suspect Robins hasnt included Allasani yet if his fitness isn't up to scratch yet from non league.
Kelly, JCH, Hyam, Bakayoko from the bench gives enough options to switch it up.

Hiwula won't win headers though.

In theory if we played it on the deck it might work.

SkyBlueCRJ · Aug 22, 2018

Limey said:
Been thinking about this most of the day.
Burge
Grimmer----Willis---Davies----Brown
Jones---Ogogo---Bayliss----Shipley
Andreu
Hiwula

Jones obviously not ready so give Allasani that role until fit. I suspect Robins hasnt included Allasani yet if his fitness isn't up to scratch yet from non league.
Kelly, JCH, Hyam, Bakayoko from the bench gives enough options to switch it up.

It's a good idea but I'm not sure it would come off. I feel Hiwula needs someone beside him rather than behind him. Feel a dirty comment might be made about that remark....

Limey · Aug 22, 2018

Nick said:
Hiwula won't win headers though.

In theory if we played it on the deck it might work.

Agreed. Are the players being told launch it early though or just in blind panic currently? Thomas/Allasani can play the Jones role until back.

robbiekeane · Aug 22, 2018

Limey said:
Been thinking about this most of the day.
Burge
Grimmer----Willis---Davies----Brown
Jones---Ogogo---Bayliss----Shipley
Andreu
Hiwula

Jones obviously not ready so give Allasani that role until fit. I suspect Robins hasnt included Allasani yet if his fitness isn't up to scratch yet from non league.
Kelly, JCH, Hyam, Bakayoko from the bench gives enough options to switch it up.

I like the idea but would Ogogo and Bayliss in CM be enough? Think last time Ogogo basically had to do all the hard work and just got hammered and made to look bad

Warwickhunt · Aug 23, 2018

if we played the ball on the deck rather than humping the bloody thing any team would improve! its not rocket science afterall controlling posession and splittiung defences with through balls then you only need the forwards to be sitting on the shoulder line of the opposition defence(might even stay onside) there is always one defender in the opposition team that controls the line when they push out, just sit along side him and it fucks them up

Square pegs in round holes (1 Viewer)

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