Stability (4 Viewers)

Skybluefaz · Aug 25, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
A pity SISU don't do the same, yet expect the fans to blindly do it eh? I used to do the same but came to my senses when SISU came in.
My approach mate is Over the 8+ years of SISU rule the team quality has deteriorated sickeningly to a bunch of has beens and basically underdeveloped kids that haven't had the chance to mature. SISU and Andy Thorne fucked up Bigi big style by playing him when he wasn't ready. The same has happened to Finch, Haynes, and is going to happen to the Kelly-Evans kids.

The investment I was talking about was emotional. Finch? I've never seen anything in the lad to suggest he's league one quality. Richardson kept us in the Premier league by caning us into debt and sold Highfield Road. Ok we were a couple of leagues higher but that method had no longevity to it. We've had terrible owners for the 25 years I've supported the club, but it hasn't changed my support. It feels like people are kicking off again cos we've lost a few games. Back the team.

Sky Blue Kid · Aug 25, 2016

Nick said:
It really is nice to get so much attention really, it is almost as if you are on here just to follow me round. I am flattered.

It is almost like you are on here just to try and dispell anything that makes anybody but SISU look bad, trying to make out people are imagining things that are going on around them.

It is a bit like the time I pointed out (in a thread, so everybody could see) that something was going to happen and 3 or 4 people signed up especially and posted along the lines of what you just did. Amazingly enough, within 2 days the news had come out about Wasps and the Academy.

People love to give it the "conspiracy" shout as well. I think they did that when people pointed out the Telegraph were working with the Council.

The fact that people bang on about the JR meaning the council and everybody else are innocent for everything in anything sort of shows their understanding. All it means is that it wasn't illegal state aid.

Wow! that's almost as good as when NLHWC and Myself predicted where we were going under SISU.... Remember Nick. but we had the piss ripped out of us... Not so funny anymore is it Nick

Sky Blue Kid · Aug 25, 2016

Skybluefaz said:
Oh I thought it was something as mental as that. Come on, how can one compare a desired object like a car or tv to the emotional attachment and investment that you plough into your football club. I don't think anyone has Sisu as their preferred owners but at the moment it's what we've got and the team and club will not be better off if we all treat it like a tv. Support Man City if that's your approach.

Skybluefaz said:

The investment I was talking about was emotional.

Click to expand...

Skybluefaz said:
Finch? I've never seen anything in the lad to suggest he's league one quality. Richardson kept us in the Premier league by caning us into debt and sold Highfield Road. Ok we were a couple of leagues higher but that method had no longevity to it. We've had terrible owners for the 25 years I've supported the club, but it hasn't changed my support. It feels like people are kicking off again cos we've lost a few games. Back the team.

It doesn't read that way to me mate. Be careful or you might find (Like I did) you get a new arse ripped by Nick and a few others. Don't worry you're on Nicks wavelength so should be alright.

oucho · Aug 25, 2016

Nick said:
I have said it looks that way.

The same as I have been saying things that even though CCFC may have had absolutely no intention of moving to the Butts, as soon as they got wind of that email it would have been printed off and put into an envelope to go to the FL.

They are facts that have happened that show people like the council obstructing.

I am waiting for the Trust to pick apart all of the points with their knowledge and findings, I am happy to listen and learn.

Again, I guess people will want the council leader to say "yes, that is what we are doing" before it would cross anybody's mind that it was the case.

It is so easy to just palm it away as "ah conspiracy" though isn't it if there isn't a written admission for people to see.

Mate, you are aware that there's nothing at all to suggest that CCC are going out of their way to be unreasonable to City, aren't you? True, they've not let City pull their pants down and dictate their own terms, but we'd expect that.

skyblueinBaku · Aug 25, 2016

oucho said:
Mate, you are aware that there's nothing at all to suggest that CCC are going out of their way to be unreasonable to City, aren't you? True, they've not let City pull their pants down and dictate their own terms, but we'd expect that.

Didn't CCC try to scupper the BPA deal with some change to the lease banning professional football there? I may be mistaken, but I'm sure something like that happened. Also, that Duggins bloke insisting on Sisu giving CCC £300,000 to cover legal expenses. That's a ridiculous idea. True, Nick seems to be lenient as far as Sisu is concened when blame for our predicament is apportioned, but I don't think he is unfair to CCC. Neither CCC or Sisu (or Wasps for that matter) have the slightest interest in CCFC and it's fans.

Rodders1 · Aug 25, 2016

Nick said:
Of course it is exploding into a big SISU drama.

People don't seem to grasp we are in League 1 and that our manager is a League 1 Manager. League 1 Managers have restrictions, that is football. People just keep shouting "give him money for a striker" but they failed to acknowledge he had already signed 2.

The example was the guy sat near me the other week, at the start it was "I cant believe SISU actually paid for a player, i'd never expect it (about turnbull)" and when by the end of the half he was that angry it was "SISU don't even let Mowbray buy players".

It is as if people don't want to take a step back and understand things, or see the bigger picture that is football in general.

The problem is that SISU have burnt their bridges with everyone. We can't move forward with the them around.

If you replaced them with an equally wealthy owner as them (ie no funds to invest) then I'd be very happy. Because you would hope this new owner would be approached by the council or Wasps in a professional manner where both sides don't hate each other. Wasps would probably let CCFC stay on a long term deal. The council would probably be much more helpful in sorting the butts or another location for a new ground in the long term.

Saying that SISU are doing all they can is correct - but they are reaping what they sow now. No one wants to help.

singers_pore · Aug 25, 2016

oldskyblue58 said:
Can we get some things straight about liquidation.

- it is not administration there is no coming out the other side and carrying on under a different ownership
- a liquidator sells everything he can, but it is no longer a going concern so the values are often very much lower than you may expect, and the sale proceeds are distributed to pay the liquidator and creditors
- liquidation immediately means the Golden share goes back to the FL and the members vote on who then gets it next season
- liquidation means that all contracts cease including players, academy, ground etc
- players are free to make other arrangements
- it is not a solution it is an extinction

Unless you "lose" the golden share in which case liquidation doesn't mean extinction at all, does it? Of course it helps when the person choosing to liquidate is also paying the person whose job it is to find the assets/golden share. Cough cough. No corruption there at all.

Sky Blue Kid · Aug 25, 2016

skyblueindorset said:
Didn't CCC try to scupper the BPA deal with some change to the lease banning professional football there? I may be mistaken, but I'm sure something like that happened. Also, that Duggins bloke insisting on Sisu giving CCC £300,000 to cover legal expenses. That's a ridiculous idea. True, Nick seems to be lenient as far as Sisu is concened when blame for our predicament is apportioned, but I don't think he is unfair to CCC. Neither CCC or Sisu (or Wasps for that matter) have the slightest interest in CCFC and it's fans.

No they didn't mate.

"Councillor George Duggins, Leader of Coventry City Council, said: "I want to clear up any confusion about the proposal to develop a joint stadium for rugby and football. I want to be really clear that the council will not put any obstacles in the way of this happening. Anything that requires our involvement including variations to the leases will be considered in the usual way - openly and transparently by members.

"But just to be clear the last contact we had with the rugby club about this proposal requested further information and this hasn't been received.

"The development of a larger stadium would require planning permission and we have not received an application. But at the point that we do, this will be treated like any other application including looking at all of the associated issues like parking, traffic and the impact on neighbours"

fernandopartridge · Aug 25, 2016

singers_pore said:
Unless you "lose" the golden share in which case liquidation doesn't mean extinction at all, does it? Of course it helps when the person choosing to liquidate is also paying the person whose job it is to find the assets/golden share. Cough cough. No corruption there at all.

That wasn't a liquidation process as you know

Nick · Aug 25, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
No they didn't mate.

"Councillor George Duggins, Leader of Coventry City Council, said: "I want to clear up any confusion about the proposal to develop a joint stadium for rugby and football. I want to be really clear that the council will not put any obstacles in the way of this happening. Anything that requires our involvement including variations to the leases will be considered in the usual way - openly and transparently by members.

"But just to be clear the last contact we had with the rugby club about this proposal requested further information and this hasn't been received.

"The development of a larger stadium would require planning permission and we have not received an application. But at the point that we do, this will be treated like any other application including looking at all of the associated issues like parking, traffic and the impact on neighbours"

That was after they tried to put an obstacle in, and they knew millerchip was blocking it...

People are calling me naive, yet quote him saying they won't stop it, even thigh
Though they had tried and knew then miller chip was doing it for them

Sky Blue Harry H · Aug 25, 2016

Have we decided if we're stable or not? I'll wait another 24 hours re-join the thread and find out!

Sky Blue Kid · Aug 25, 2016

Nick said:
That was after they tried to put an obstacle in, and they knew millerchip was blocking it...

People are calling me naive, yet quote him saying they won't stop it, even thigh
Though they had tried and knew then miller chip was doing it for them

It was a "Fishing exercise" but was done to protect CRFC. when it was sorted by the Council CCFC were NOT going to be blocked from joint venture. In fact the CCC were more than helpful toward CCFC.. Or is that SISU? So lets not get knickers in a twist eh Nick.

skybluetony176 · Aug 25, 2016

skyblueindorset said:
Didn't CCC try to scupper the BPA deal with some change to the lease banning professional football there? I may be mistaken, but I'm sure something like that happened. Also, that Duggins bloke insisting on Sisu giving CCC £300,000 to cover legal expenses. That's a ridiculous idea. True, Nick seems to be lenient as far as Sisu is concened when blame for our predicament is apportioned, but I don't think he is unfair to CCC. Neither CCC or Sisu (or Wasps for that matter) have the slightest interest in CCFC and it's fans.

There never was a BPA deal. The clause was there already and was from day one of CRFC taking over the BPA lease to protect CRFC from losing it's ground again from someone unscrupulous.

Nick · Aug 25, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
It was a "Fishing exercise" but was done to protect CRFC. when it was sorted by the Council CCFC were NOT going to be blocked from joint venture. In fact the CCC were more than helpful toward CCFC.. Or is that SISU? So lets not get knickers in a twist eh Nick.

Of course it was...

I'll quote Fisher to prove we are having a new stadium yeah?

Like they protected crfc and ccfc from wasps?

Sky Blue Kid · Aug 25, 2016

5-4-3-2-1 and..............Fuck... 10 seconds too late.

Sky Blue Kid · Aug 25, 2016

Nick said:
Of course it was...

I'll quote Fisher to prove we are having a new stadium yeah?

Have a read of tony's post don't just take my post on board.... just for balance like

Sky Blue Kid · Aug 25, 2016

Nick said:
Of course it was...

I'll quote Fisher to prove we are having a new stadium yeah?

Like they protected crfc and ccfc from wasps?

I'd say your head is about 3/4 the way up SISU's arse, not much further to go eh Nick

Nick · Aug 25, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
There never was a BPA deal. The clause was there already and was from day one of CRFC taking over the BPA lease to protect CRFC from losing it's ground again from someone unscrupulous.

I've never said how far in it it was

The letter said:

Thank you for your e-mail concerning the above mentioned matter.

I have now liaised with my instructing officer, Nigel Clews of Place Directorate and can confirm that the Council is still happy to proceed with the deed as detailed in your e-mail.

The Council would however wish to raise one issue following recent items in the local press suggesting that professional football was coming to the Butts Arena. I suspect that this is not the case however the Council naturally wants to protect its position as well as the Rugby Club.

It is suggested that we look to add a new clause 12 to the Licence which make a variation or agreement/acknowledgement between the parties that the reference within clause 13.1 of the lease to “any other leisure and sporting activities and uses” shall specifically exclude professional association football or training associated therewith.

Nick · Aug 25, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
I'd say your head is about 3/4 the way up SISU's arse, not much further to go eh Nick

What? We are building a stadium, do you want me to post a link from Fisher to prove it?

covmark · Aug 25, 2016

Nick said:
I've never said how far in it it was

The letter said:

Thank you for your e-mail concerning the above mentioned matter.

I have now liaised with my instructing officer, Nigel Clews of Place Directorate and can confirm that the Council is still happy to proceed with the deed as detailed in your e-mail.

The Council would however wish to raise one issue following recent items in the local press suggesting that professional football was coming to the Butts Arena. I suspect that this is not the case however the Council naturally wants to protect its position as well as the Rugby Club.

It is suggested that we look to add a new clause 12 to the Licence which make a variation or agreement/acknowledgement between the parties that the reference within clause 13.1 of the lease to “any other leisure and sporting activities and uses” shall specifically exclude professional association football or training associated therewith.

Why does it say new clause if according to Tony, the clause was already there?

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

Sky Blue Kid · Aug 25, 2016

Nick said:
What? We are building a stadium, do you want me to post a link from Fisher to prove it?

Seeing as you've got your SISU blinkers on.... The clause was already put in place a few years ago to stop takeovers from unscrupulous businesses... Ring any bells?

skybluebeduff · Aug 25, 2016

Nick said:
What? We are building a stadium, do you want me to post a link from Fisher to prove it?

I'd like to see the plans from 3 years ago that were only supposed to be 3 weeks away at the time...

Nick · Aug 25, 2016

skybluebeduff said:
I'd like to see the plans from 3 years ago that were only supposed to be 3 weeks away at the time...

Just to confirm, it was sarcasm

Nick · Aug 25, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
Seeing as you've got your SISU blinkers on.... The clause was already put in place a few years ago to stop takeovers from unscrupulous businesses... Ring any bells?

What are they trying to add?

What has millerchip got to do with the council?

duffer · Aug 25, 2016

Let's just get the chain of events right here, so we can see how helpful the council have been...

Aug 2014 (Just before the return to the Ricoh):
Council chief:
We need time to rebuild trust before we talk about ownership (with CCFC):
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/council-chief-need-time-rebuild-7651892
(as a matter of record, at the time the council were already secretly negotiating a deal with London Wasps)

January 2016
Council Officer email to Jon Sharp, CRFC.:
"The Council naturally wants to protect its position. We look to add a new clause (to) specifically exclude professional association football (from being played at the Butts)"
http://coventryobserver.co.uk/news/...id-b-coventry-city-f-c-butts-groundshare/
(this was in response to a possible arrangement being discussed for CCFC to play at the Butts)

May 2016
Council Chief George Duggins:
Will not put up ‘roadblocks’ to sale of lease, potential groundshare
http://coventryobserver.co.uk/news/...ouncil-leader-coventry-city-butts-sisu-speak/
(this after email above was leaked and published earlier in the month)

Aug 2016:
Council Chief George Duggins:
SISU must pay council £325,000 before it will before it will help CCFC stay at the Ricoh Arena or secure Academy
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/council-says-taxpayers-325k-out-11772291

So of the two times that the council has offered to help the club in recent history, one was a simple flat-out lie. A total fiction. A complete fabrication from start to finish, from an elected member of the council. It was not contradicted by anyone else at the council at the time, officers or councillors, even though many there would have known it to be a lie.

The other offer to help (or at least not deliberately hinder) was in response to being caught attempting to block any possible move away from the Ricoh. This was subsequently completely contradicted with a demand for money to which the council has (as yet) no legal claim.

Tremendously helpful.

Sky Blue Kid · Aug 25, 2016

Nick said:
What are they trying to add?

What has millerchip got to do with the council?

Read and digest Nick.... Taken from the Telegraph may 2016.
"The rugby chief outlined his vision for retail and student accommodation on the site as a measure to help with the financing of the project.

Plans could include lowering the pitch and building two-tier stands to expand capacity.

He conceded that parking was an issue should the plans progress, but pointed towards the central location, bus routes and the proximity of the train station as mitigating factors.

Another challenge could be restrictions on the existing Butts Park lease with Coventry City Council. The Telegraph reported in December that conditions on the lease currently only allow for a rugby club to operate at the venue

Nick · Aug 25, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
Read and digest Nick.... Taken from the Telegraph may 2016.
"The rugby chief outlined his vision for retail and student accommodation on the site as a measure to help with the financing of the project.

Plans could include lowering the pitch and building two-tier stands to expand capacity.

He conceded that parking was an issue should the plans progress, but pointed towards the central location, bus routes and the proximity of the train station as mitigating factors.

Another challenge could be restrictions on the existing Butts Park lease with Coventry City Council. The Telegraph reported in December that conditions on the lease currently only allow for a rugby club to operate at the venue

What were they trying to add then?

Sky Blue Kid · Aug 25, 2016

Nick said:
What were they trying to add then?

Don't you read, or do you just glaze over posts? The CCC OWN the freehold and set the clause "Only Rugby to be played at BPA years ago to protect the crfc after they went bust in (I think 2010) from unscrupulous business takeovers. To quote you... Ironic eh?

Nick · Aug 25, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
Don't you read, or do you just glaze over posts? The CCC OWN the freehold and set the clause "Only Rugby to be played at BPA years ago to protect the crfc after they went bust in (I think 2010) from unscrupulous business takeovers. To quote you... Ironic eh?

Yes, but I'm asking what they were trying to add?

chiefdave · Aug 25, 2016

Think you're both talking about the same thing. There is indeed an existing lease that only allows for rugby to be played. That is being changed to allow for whatever plans CRFC come up with. It was as part of that change that CCC were going to remove the current restrictions but put in a restriction that specifically forbid professional football.

Sky Blue Kid · Aug 25, 2016

chiefdave said:
Think you're both talking about the same thing. There is indeed an existing lease that only allows for rugby to be played. That is being changed to allow for whatever plans CRFC come up with. It was as part of that change that CCC were going to remove the current restrictions but put in a restriction that specifically forbid professional football.

A deja-vu sense of foreboding eh Dave

ccfcway · Aug 25, 2016

Sky Blue Harry H said:
Have we decided if we're stable or not? I'll wait another 24 hours re-join the thread and find out!

or wait for a very similar thread started tomorrow.

Nick · Aug 25, 2016

ccfcway said:
or wait for a very similar thread started tomorrow.

Like a daily transfer thread?

ccfcway · Aug 25, 2016

Nick said:
Like a daily transfer thread?

which actually discusses what has happened that day, or rumours of what might be happening.

Its rather different that us all arguing about what happened before sisu arrived / whilst sisu are here, who will buy them out.

a few posts above this, someone is quoting 2010.

Nick · Aug 25, 2016

ccfcway said:
which actually discusses what has happened that day, or rumours of what might be happening.

Its rather different that us all arguing about what happened before sisu arrived / whilst sisu are here, who will buy them out.

a few posts above this, someone is quoting 2010.

I wasn't being sarcastic, I was just imagining.A "Monday's beef" thread.

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