Steps removed. SISU and CCFC. (1 Viewer)

oldskyblue58 · Sep 12, 2017

Nick the club is paying to rent short term a small amount of space at BPA. It is extra income for CRFC with no long term commitment by either club. It is in the scheme of things insignificant. It is not a contradiction nor does it point to anything else going on

It provides extra easy money for CRFC they didn't have for space they were not using and comes over as being helpful to CCFC fans it is a win win for CRFC

If we are being pedantic CCFC is nothing more than a trading name in any case

In company law SISU & Otium are two different entities as were CCFC Ltd and CCFC H Ltd. Reality is that control of Otium rests with SISU which is why people lazily call them the same entity. The time spent on here arguing as to whether the same thing or not is wasted. People are pointing at who has ultimate control not the legal structure.

To get anything significant or long term done for Otium/CCFC you have to deal closely with SISU/ARVO/Seppala

Moff · Sep 12, 2017

The smoke and mirrors is boring already and its only September.

Will be like pulling teeth seeing constant regurgitated shite in the Telegraph and Observer from now until a new deal is signed (or not) Every piece will be open to misinterpretation and will result in multi paged arguments on here.

Wasps from what I gather see our use of the ground as a very welcome financial benefit to them at a time when they are having to count every penny and pay top dollar in a Rugby world where wages are spiralling out of control.

ajsccfc · Sep 12, 2017

Moff said:
Yes all true, but when will Julian Gray be leaving?

NEVER, OR OVER MY DEAD BODY

chiefdave · Sep 12, 2017

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
Why because of one article in the telegraph?

No, the usual signs have been starting to show over the last week.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
So how do you know he didn't deliberately choose his words here?

He may well have done but given it is virtually a 180 turn on what he's said previously and the lack of context in the article I have my doubts at the moment.

dongonzalos said:
Reading between the lines I think he is saying he needs a relationship with the council more than he does with SISU in order to get it done.

If that's the case then you have to conclude that the council are deliberately working against the football club. CRFC working with CCFC should not make any difference to how CCC treat the rugby club or how helpful / unhelpful they are with any future development at the Butts.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Sep 12, 2017

Nick said:
Obviously he does, as CCFC have a ticket office there and he shares offices with CCFC staff so he obviously does see some difference.

I'd stick with the out of context, bits missing

If people see want to see CCFC as SISU, why on earth are they going to games and cheering them on? Why do they go to away games only and cheer CCFC on? Why do they go to Wembley and cheer CCFC on?

Nick · Sep 12, 2017

oldskyblue58 said:
Nick the club is paying to rent short term a small amount of space at BPA. It is extra income for CRFC with no long term commitment by either club. It is in the scheme of things insignificant. It is not a contradiction nor does it point to anything else going on

It provides extra easy money for CRFC they didn't have for space they were not using and comes over as being helpful to CCFC fans it is a win win for CRFC

If we are being pedantic CCFC is nothing more than a trading name in any case

In company law SISU & Otium are two different entities as were CCFC Ltd and CCFC H Ltd. Reality is that control of Otium rests with SISU which is why people lazily call them the same entity. The time spent on here arguing as to whether the same thing or not is wasted. People are pointing at who has ultimate control not the legal structure.

To get anything significant or long term done for Otium/CCFC you have to deal closely with SISU/ARVO/Seppala

It does contradict if he sees them as the same, as he has said he won't deal with SISU and even used End Of to confirm it. If he is dealing with "SISU" at the minute on office space, marketing events etc that goes against what he has said and he has always been very blunt about not wanting to work with SISU (I think even before the Butts ticket office).

I can understand not wanting to deal with SISU as in Joy and Dermot but he can obviously still deal with Fisher / Boddy and people who sort out the Butts arrangements we have in place now.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Sep 12, 2017

chiefdave said:
No, the usual signs have been starting to show over the last week.

He may well have done but given it is virtually a 180 turn on what he's said previously and the lack of context in the article I have my doubts at the moment.

If that's the case then you have to conclude that the council are deliberately working against the football club. CRFC working with CCFC should not make any difference to how CCC treat the rugby club or how helpful / unhelpful they are with any future development at the Butts.

Read the question read the answer

Kingokings204 · Sep 12, 2017

So what is this secret agenda people have? What does that mean for ccfc?

Gosford Green · Sep 12, 2017

This football league meeting that the club were at. Maybe the football league asked CCFC where they intend to play next year and Fisher or whoever went said the BPA, the football league contacted CRFC for clarification and the chairman came out and made this press release. The CT are obviously all over it as it makes good local clickbait.

Gosford Green · Sep 12, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
So what is this secret agenda people have? What does that mean for ccfc?

There is no secret agenda. 5 people on here just like to think there is otherwise they might have to look at the owners for a reason why the club is in freefall.

Nick · Sep 12, 2017

Gosford Green said:
There is no secret agenda. 5 people on here just like to think there is otherwise they might have to look at the owners for a reason why the club is in freefall.

It's amazing though isn't it how I have been right every time that something is going to come out?

Also strange how certain people do a post every few weeks and then suddenly go into overdrive isn't it to drive a point home and creating threads to draw attention to it?

It's obvious to people who have eyes.

Kingokings204 · Sep 12, 2017

Gosford Green said:
There is no secret agenda. 5 people on here just like to think there is otherwise they might have to look at the owners for a reason why the club is in freefall.

However it does seem a bit odd we have had the football league meeting article and then this article from Jon sharpe this morning. Is it all click bait or is it because we won on Saturday and they need to put us down?

Kingokings204 · Sep 12, 2017

Nick said:
It's amazing though isn't it how I have been right every time that something is going to come out?

Also strange how certain people do a post every few weeks and then suddenly go into overdrive isn't it to drive a point home and creating threads to draw attention to it?

It's obvious to people who have eyes.

So what do you think Nick? What's your best guess?

dongonzalos · Sep 12, 2017

Nick said:
Obviously he does, as CCFC have a ticket office there and he shares offices with CCFC staff so he obviously does see some difference.

I'd stick with the out of context, bits missing

If people see want to see CCFC as SISU, why on earth are they going to games and cheering them on? Why do they go to away games only and cheer CCFC on? Why do they go to Wembley and cheer CCFC on?

When he has a ticket office at the Butts he is doing business with SISU.
If he does a ground share he is doing business with SISU.
The only difference is one depends on the council the other doesn't. In my opinion.

Nick · Sep 12, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
So what do you think Nick? What's your best guess?

It's hard to say, but I'd guess it isn't good for CCFC but there won't be much bother because people will see it as getting one over on SISU.

thekidfromstrettoncamp · Sep 12, 2017

Nick I would think office space and small items like that SISU wont even be consulted about, but ground share would.

oldskyblue58 · Sep 12, 2017

Question Nick when you go to the match tonight are you dealing with CCFC or SISU?

dongonzalos · Sep 12, 2017

It's quite simple that suing people that you need help from is dumb.
Especially when your case against them is shockingly weak.
It's screwing up our relationship with Wasps and the prospects of a long term rental deal.
It helped Wasps march into the Ricoh.
It's holding up any potential Butts deal.
It is of no benefit to us fans and it's of no benefit to SISU as everyone is telling them they can't succeed

Nick · Sep 12, 2017

oldskyblue58 said:
Question Nick when you go to the match tonight are you dealing with CCFC or SISU?

I am dealing with CCFC. If I buy things in the ground I am dealing with Compass / ACL / Wasps and a small bit then.

Nick · Sep 12, 2017

thekidfromstrettoncamp said:
Nick I would think office space and small items like that SISU wont even be consulted about, but ground share would.

That's my point, he can deal with CCFC so people like Fisher / Boddy to sort things like that out.

chiefdave · Sep 12, 2017

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
Read the question read the answer

That's exactly my point. He is quoted as saying "My public statements stand". His public statement, made on the CRFC website after a very similar previous article made out a move to the Butts was a non-starter due to CCFC being owned by SISU says:

“There has been much speculation in the media over the last two days over the possibility of the Sky Blues playing at BPA, and indeed this has been a continuing source of media hysteria for a year or so now.

“Whilst I have declined to comment in the media over their most recent reports, I would like to inform you our supporters what the club’s current position is.

“We at Coventry Rugby, and I’m sure, all true sports fans in the City would like to see an end to the crippling saga surrounding our sister club CCFC, from which sorry mess there will emerge no winners.

“We have been asked and have agreed to mediate in this matter. What assistance we can give is, however, limited and revolves around CCFC playing here.”

One of the several options at the study stage is having the Sky Blues as tenants here. We have stated in writing that there would be a number of conditions to this, designed to protect Coventry Rugby’s interests, before it could be realised:- any costs associated with the project would not be borne by CRL or BPAL; the issue of primacy of tenancy would have to be resolved to our satisfaction; the pitch would have to meet all requirements of the RFU, the RL and ourselves; CRL would retain control and ownership of the site through BPAL; we prefer a stadium of not more than 12,000 capacity.

Also, as I have already stated elsewhere, we will not deal with SISU.”

So as far as I can see absolutely nothing has changed, he won't deal with SISU but he will deal with CCFC as the rugby club have been doing for many months now without any issues we know of.

oldskyblue58 · Sep 12, 2017

Nick said:
I am dealing with CCFC. If I buy things in the ground I am dealing with Compass / ACL / Wasps and a small bit then.

CRFC are making the same distinction but instead of paying CCFC they are receiving from them, on a short term operational agreement just like you

Nick · Sep 12, 2017

oldskyblue58 said:
CRFC are making the same distinction but instead of paying CCFC they are receiving from them, on a short term operational agreement just like you

Yes, but I'm not saying they are the same though. So by him having that there he can see the difference between CCFC / SISU where he might ring up Fisher or probably Boddy now to sort things like that out rather than Joy / Dermot.

dongonzalos · Sep 12, 2017

chiefdave said:
No, the usual signs have been starting to show over the last week.

He may well have done but given it is virtually a 180 turn on what he's said previously and the lack of context in the article I have my doubts at the moment.

If that's the case then you have to conclude that the council are deliberately working against the football club. CRFC working with CCFC should not make any difference to how CCC treat the rugby club or how helpful / unhelpful they are with any future development at the Butts.

I think they have said themselves that whilst SISU sue them they won't go above what is legally required of them when it comes to SISU.
I genuinely don't blame them I would be the same. I wouldn't put myself out to help someone who kerostrying to sue me and keeps dragging through expensive legal action whenever the judges are advising them to stop

thekidfromstrettoncamp · Sep 12, 2017

I do hope it dawns on the football league where the problem is and gives them(SISU) an early deadline to get the stadium situation sorted out

dongonzalos · Sep 12, 2017

Nick said:
Yes, but I'm not saying they are the same though. So by him having that there he can see the difference between CCFC / SISU where he might ring up Fisher or probably Boddy now to sort things like that out rather than Joy / Dermot.

And when a big decision is to be made like a ground share who will Tim Fisher phone?

Nick · Sep 12, 2017

dongonzalos said:
And when a big decision is to be made like a ground share who will Tim Fisher phone?

That's not the point I'm trying to make though is it? If he can deal with CCFC and not SISU then they obviously aren't the same thing are they which is what the first 2 posts in this thread tried to push?

fernandopartridge · Sep 12, 2017

thekidfromstrettoncamp said:
I do hope it dawns on the football league where the problem is and gives them(SISU) an early deadline to get the stadium situation sorted out

....and what if SISU doesn't meet the deadline? Wouldn't giving them an early deadline play right into the hands of a perceived forced move out of the city?

Nick · Sep 12, 2017

fernandopartridge said:
....and what if SISU doesn't meet the deadline? Wouldn't giving them an early deadline play right into the hands of a perceived forced move out of the city?

Exactly, I think the FL are in a harder position now than with Sixfields. They can't force Wasps to allow CCFC to play there, they can't say to CCFC you have to play the Ricoh else we will do X, Y and Z.

chiefdave · Sep 12, 2017

thekidfromstrettoncamp said:
I do hope it dawns on the football league where the problem is and gives them(SISU) an early deadline to get the stadium situation sorted out

Lets say they do and its you in charge and not Tim Fisher what do you do?

Wasps say they won't even talk with you unless SISU, who you have no power over, stop legal action against CCC.

CRFC say they are keen to help but not while legal action is ongoing which as before you have no power over.

What other options are there in the city?

As much as we all hate SISU and what they have done to the club at this point, IMO, we have to put the club first. Having the club still playing in the city is the most important thing to me and if that means a short term shift of focus to pressure Wasps and CCC then that's what we should do.

I don't want to be sat here this time next year wondering how the hell we've ended up at Sixfields or god knows where else it might be.

hutch1972 · Sep 12, 2017

Nick said:
Something is going on in the background... Agendas are firing up.

If they were the same, CCFC wouldn't have a ticket office and offices at the Butts would they if he can't deal with SISU?

It is possible that the rental contract was before all the court cases started. we must have been there for 5 or 6 years ?

Nick · Sep 12, 2017

hutch1972 said:
It is possible that the rental contract was before all the court cases started. we must have been there for 5 or 6 years ?

September 2015 it opened, just over 2 years by a few days.

Coventry City's new non-matchday ticket office at Butts Park Arena is now open! - News - Coventry City

Still SISU, still Fisher, still legal cases etc.

oldskyblue58 · Sep 12, 2017

Nick said:
Yes, but I'm not saying they are the same though. So by him having that there he can see the difference between CCFC / SISU where he might ring up Fisher or probably Boddy now to sort things like that out rather than Joy / Dermot.

He is categorising things. He can see the things he only has to deal with the club for - rent of a little space on very short term basis that can be approved by Boddy or Fisher against long term commitments that require the close involvement of SISU. Which is why there is no conflict in what he is doing, or any real connection to a full time tenancy at BPA for CCFC. He understands who can give approval on what

stupot07 · Sep 12, 2017

chiefdave said:
Lets say they do and its you in charge and not Tim Fisher what do you do?

Wasps say they won't even talk with you unless SISU, who you have no power over, stop legal action against CCC.

CRFC say they are keen to help but not while legal action is ongoing which as before you have no power over.

What other options are there in the city?

As much as we all hate SISU and what they have done to the club at this point, IMO, we have to put the club first. Having the club still playing in the city is the most important thing to me and if that means a short term shift of focus to pressure Wasps and CCC then that's what we should do.

I don't want to be sat here this time next year wondering how the hell we've ended up at Sixfields or god knows where else it might be.

this ^^^^

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

chiefdave · Sep 12, 2017

Nick said:
Exactly, I think the FL are in a harder position now than with Sixfields. They can't force Wasps to allow CCFC to play there, they can't say to CCFC you have to play the Ricoh else we will do X, Y and Z.

That's the thing, people will say the FL should insist we play at the Ricoh but that doesn't work. Wasps can just say no or they can say we want £1m a season. If they know we have no other option we're screwed.

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