Sunderland for sale (1 Viewer)

Grendel · Dec 31, 2019

Sbarcher said:
Thing is they were actually "up for sale" as soon as Donald and Co took over. They thought they could do a flip back to the Championship and then bale out at a profit. He was originally seen as the saviour after Short virtually gave the club away. He may have stabilised the club financially but does not have the funds to match their ambition. Their recruitment's been based on Frees and out of contracts (eg, Burge and Willis). Jumping from owning Eastleigh to Sunderland was a jump too far......
If I was a Sunderland fan, I would also be fuming if we had the wage bill of the rest of the league combined and were sitting in mid-table.

The issue centres around a secured loan made by 3 American bankers to Maddox Ltd which owns Sunderland’s assets.

The loan of £9m is secured against the clubs assets which are worth £90m so in theory if they default on the payback of the loan they lose everything they have to the 3 bankers who also can dictate who the new owners are

Their wage bill 2 years ago was around £47 m and it’s likely still to be far higher than the income coming in. The loan was needed to keep the club continuing as a going concern

Grendel · Dec 31, 2019

fernandopartridge said:
We're in no position to gloat either, despite the hysteria on their board they're still fundamentally in a better position than us I'd say

The finances make grim reading
Sunderland AFC's 2018 Finances - Back to Back - FINANCIAL FOOTBALL NEWS

Cranfield Sky Blue · Dec 31, 2019

Mucca Mad Boys said:
Every set of fans has a section of Neanderthals.

I’ve never bought into this fabricated rivalry between Sunderland and ourselves. It’s only come about after the anniversary of that Bristol game in the 70s.

Half the people who feel strongly about this ‘scandal’ weren’t even born when it happened.

Partly added to by the day we beat Spurs to stay up on the last day and they went down! Was that 97?

lifeskyblue · Dec 31, 2019

Mucca Mad Boys said:
I don’t understand why people would be happy with this?

When a community is at risk of losing its team, it’s a tragedy. It’s surprising this would come from us, with our experience renting the RICOH and our current exile from Coventry.

It doesn’t take much for the next Bury, Bolton or Wimbledon (the original) to happen.

Spot on. Rivalry is good in football but does anyone seriously want another community rooted club to lose their ground or go to the Wall? Yes they, like all clubs, have idiots who spout rubbish on line or act irresponsibly when tanked up with drugs and alcohol but all Sunderland fans I’ve spoken to have sympathy for our situation.

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fernandopartridge · Dec 31, 2019

Grendel said:
The finances make grim reading
Sunderland AFC's 2018 Finances - Back to Back - FINANCIAL FOOTBALL NEWS

Blimey, worse than I thought, amazing how high the wage bill is / was

Grendel · Dec 31, 2019

fernandopartridge said:
Blimey, worse than I thought, amazing how high the wage bill is / was

The new owner claims to have paid £40 m for the club but in reality just used the last parachute payments which meant the finances of the club just got worse.

The whole set up looks murky, they have a very good local journalist in the Sunderland Echo whose been banging the drum for a while

Warwickhunt · Dec 31, 2019

Deep shit if they dont get promoted this year then:joyful::joyful:

clint van damme · Dec 31, 2019

Grendel said:
The new owner claims to have paid £40 m for the club but in reality just used the last parachute payments which meant the finances of the club just got worse.

The whole set up looks murky, they have a very good local journalist in the Sunderland Echo whose been banging the drum for a while

Nice to know there are still some local media who do their job properly.

clint van damme · Dec 31, 2019

Grendel said:
The finances make grim reading
Sunderland AFC's 2018 Finances - Back to Back - FINANCIAL FOOTBALL NEWS

That is incredibly grim reading.
I'm not sure whose predicament is worse. Theirs or ours.

BornSlippySkyBlue · Dec 31, 2019

Bit more on their finances here which explains why their wage bill will be limited to ‘only’ about 16m this season. Gets more interesting for them the longer they stick around in league 1:
SCMP: The daunting financial challenges facing Sunderland this season - what’s the issue & why?

Colin Steins Smile · Dec 31, 2019

BornSlippySkyBlue said:
Bit more on their finances here which explains why their wage bill will be limited to ‘only’ about 16m this season. Gets more interesting for them the longer they stick around in league 1:
SCMP: The daunting financial challenges facing Sunderland this season - what’s the issue & why?

Thanks for posting the articles, they make a very interesting read . It also highlights what a good job MR and his team have done in developing a competitive team in this league.
However, given the hit to revenue of playing at StA then we could be facing Increasing difficulties ourselves soon

Grendel · Dec 31, 2019

Colin Steins Smile said:
Thanks for posting the articles, they make a very interesting read . It also highlights what a good job MR and his team have done in developing a competitive team in this league.
However, given the hit to revenue of playing at StA then we could be facing Increasing difficulties ourselves soon

Our revenue is hardly impacted? Our wage bill to match day revenue isn’t that out against most clubs. Last season Sunderland has a x20 factor and we had x4 against a league average of over x5

BornSlippySkyBlue · Dec 31, 2019

Colin Steins Smile said:
Thanks for posting the articles, they make a very interesting read . It also highlights what a good job MR and his team have done in developing a competitive team in this league.
However, given the hit to revenue of playing at StA then we could be facing Increasing difficulties ourselves soon

Yeah, it gives a flavour of the difficulties clubs face when they try to set wage bills, contract lengths etc etc. You need to plan a year or three in advance but don’t know which league you’ll be in. One thing I did take from that article was that we are certainly at different stages of a club’s existence — we seem to be heading in the right direction at present, it will be interesting to see if Sunderland can stop the slide now (unlike us when we were last in L1) and if not it won’t be getting any easier for them.

Imagine the difference three years of premier league parachute payments would make to our budget now. What is it, £90m?! Reckon we could make it to the prem with that sort of investment. Oh well.

Grendel · Dec 31, 2019

BornSlippySkyBlue said:
Yeah, it gives a flavour of the difficulties clubs face when they try to set wage bills, contract lengths etc etc. You need to plan a year or three in advance but don’t know which league you’ll be in. One thing I did take from that article was that we are certainly at different stages of a club’s existence — we seem to be heading in the right direction at present, it will be interesting to see if Sunderland can stop the slide now (unlike us when we were last in L1) and if not it won’t be getting any easier for them.

Imagine the difference three years of premier league parachute payments would make to our budget now. What is it, £90m?! Reckon we could make it to the prem with that sort of investment. Oh well.

But if we got promoted and trebled our wage bill - which still would be the lowest in the league - and got relegated again we’d be in a catastrophic state?

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 31, 2019

Grendel said:
But if we got promoted and trebled our wage bill - which still would be the lowest in the league - and got relegated again we’d be in a catastrophic state?

We'd have to fire sale the high earners most probably.

BornSlippySkyBlue · Dec 31, 2019

Grendel said:
But if we got promoted and trebled our wage bill - which still would be the lowest in the league - and got relegated again we’d be in a catastrophic state?

Not necessarily, would depend on the contract length and structure. If in your scenario (if I’m understanding correctly) we got promoted, trebled our wage bill but didn’t have relegation clauses and had a squad full of championship salaries on 5 year contracts, then we’d be screwed if we dropped down again. Exaggerating for effect, but that seems to be the difference between Sunderland and us, we have already cut our cloth, to some extent — Sunderland are still cutting and may have to cut a lot more if they don’t go up.
Personally don’t think promotion has to be a disaster for us as long as the fans expectations are realistic and we don’t spend money we haven’t got (which we don’t really tbf) to stay up.

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 31, 2019

BornSlippySkyBlue said:
Not necessarily, would depend on the contract length and structure. If in your scenario (if I’m understanding correctly) we got promoted, trebled our wage bill but didn’t have relegation clauses and had a squad full of championship salaries on 5 year contracts, then we’d be screwed if we dropped down again. Exaggerating for effect, but that seems to be the difference between Sunderland and us, we have already cut our cloth, to some extent — Sunderland are still cutting and may have to cut a lot more if they don’t go up.
Personally don’t think promotion has to be a disaster for us as long as the fans expectations are realistic and we don’t spend money we haven’t got (which we don’t really tbf) to stay up.

I think most could accept getting relegated if we made a fist of it.

fellatio_Martinez · Dec 31, 2019

Fuck em.

The amount of their fans that called me names last season when I threw shit at them was outrageous. I was quite honestly shaken by the whole encounter.

BornSlippySkyBlue · Dec 31, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I think most could accept getting relegated if we made a fist of it.

Your hope so, but you’ve seen this place after 2 defeats. Imagine after 8 defeats and bottom of the league. Actually don’t think we’d be that bad even with the current squad, but there’s always the chance.

letsallsingtogether · Dec 31, 2019

Grendel said:
It’s a real issue as their ground is mortgaged to an American company with a purchase clause

They are a big club with a huge heritage and fan base. It’s a bit pathetic to be gloating to be honest.

Fuckin hell lighten up!

HerneBayGaz · Dec 31, 2019

marcusp said:

Can someone translate this into English please?

OffenhamSkyBlue · Dec 31, 2019

I think sponsorship of a stand by The Sun would have to be reserved for Liverpool for maximum impact, wouldn't it?

Colin Steins Smile · Jan 1, 2020

BornSlippySkyBlue said:
Your hope so, but you’ve seen this place after 2 defeats. Imagine after 8 defeats and bottom of the league. Actually don’t think we’d be that bad even with the current squad, but there’s always the chance.

Exactly the over reaction on this site to a defeat is bizarre.
Returning to our current financial situation - We have the benefit of having bottomed out our expenditure on players during our free fall through the divisions, so risk management of our wage bill and conforming to FFP is less of an issue, unless the club decides to return to reckless spending.
However, I feel that MR and his team deserves greater financial backing, which given our current tenure at StA the club cannot give. Currently, we are missing out on a proportion of revenues that other clubs take for granted, including stadium naming rights, secondary sales and corporate sponsorship.
Added to that the decrease in attendances, if we were to get promoted it would be critical for the club to be back in Coventry with a much improved deal to access secondary spend and a slice of naming rights for the Ricoh [when the new deal is done].

ccfcchris · Jan 1, 2020

Hope they get things sorted as I wouldn't like to see them go bust. It was/is just a tiny minority of their fans that come out with the silly hatred. The vast majority will be decent fans.

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