Takeover update (1 Viewer)

odysseus · Jul 23, 2011

Was just wondering if anyone had heard anything regarding the takeover process after yesterdays rumoured board meeting. Hoping for positive news but have a feeling this is going to be long, drawn out and no doubt painful process. Also does anyone know why Coventry City Council refuse to negotiate with SISU regarding part ownership of the RICOH?

hamil99 · Jul 23, 2011

Because, they are crooks who want ownership of the stadium to sell it on themselves, not keep it wiv the club ( pure speculation on my part, but that's wat I think!)

Macca · Jul 23, 2011

Enough hot air to fill a balloon at the moment

Marty · Jul 23, 2011

If that was the case, could they not put in a clause on the contract that the stadium could never be sold to a third party and that the stadium can only be owned by the club for the next 25 years or something like that??

I do agree with the council though, paid for by the tax payers of the city so its only fair that they get the best deal possible when selling.

SkyBluesAndy · Jul 23, 2011

I'm starting to get a feeling that a takeover isn't going to happen at all to be honest and I am disappointed as Thorn was supposed to have the same budget as Boothroyd which is quite evident is absoloute bullshit by Clouting which has made me lose any trust in him at all now to be honest. He tracked back on that the other week saying he said it would be similar to Boothroyds and not the same but this is still obviously nonsense!! Completely fed up of the situation about a takeover now, there is news on it almost daily but we are still no clearer about what the hell is going on. Think its fair to say I've been pretty positive about CCFC last few seasons when others haven't been but I'm getting fed up of this situation we're in now. I've got my ST and will still go to all home games and some away though to support Thorn, his management team and the players.

Godiva · Jul 23, 2011

SkyBluesAndy said:
Completely fed up of the situation about a takeover now, there is news on it almost daily but we are still no clearer about what the hell is going on.

News??? What news???
I must have missed something as I haven't seen any news since the chairman told they'd dismissed some scribbles from Hoffman.

I have seen a lot of rumors, speculations and allegations - but news ... nope.

sky blue john · Jul 23, 2011

I am confident a take over will happen but Sisu won't go without fighting and screaming. They will want as much money back as possible and will stoop to any tactic to get it. The women who owns Sisu is a hard nosed bitch and I remember reading some articles on another investment deal that went wrong and it wasn't pretty.
The only thing that is currently holding up a deal will be Sisu's demands for more money back.
GH has offered them the same deal that sisu offered everyone when they took over which is that they got the club for nothing and offered to pay back a percentage on promotion.
I wouldn't be surprised if players are sold including our captain with no replacements before the start of the season just to fund keeping a float.

sky blue john · Jul 23, 2011

Also another point is that the more they have to give Sisu the less they will have to invest in the club so that is also reason for them to wait untill administration but we have to be patient and do everything to make it hell for Sisu.

Marty · Jul 23, 2011

Would we actually go into administration though?? As we have no sellable assets left then wouldn't we just go into liquidation??

SkyBluesAndy · Jul 23, 2011

Godiva said:
News??? What news???
I must have missed something as I haven't seen any news since the chairman told they'd dismissed some scribbles from Hoffman.

I have seen a lot of rumors, speculations and allegations - but news ... nope.

Well news, gossip, rumours, bullsh*t, whatever you want to call it, either way its in the telegraph almost daily is what I'm saying.

fanta80 · Jul 23, 2011

sky blue john said:
I am confident a take over will happen but Sisu won't go without fighting and screaming. They will want as much money back as possible and will stoop to any tactic to get it. The women who owns Sisu is a hard nosed bitch and I remember reading some articles on another investment deal that went wrong and it wasn't pretty.
The only thing that is currently holding up a deal will be Sisu's demands for more money back.
GH has offered them the same deal that sisu offered everyone when they took over which is that they got the club for nothing and offered to pay back a percentage on promotion.
I wouldn't be surprised if players are sold including our captain with no replacements before the start of the season just to fund keeping a float.

So if you had invested millions into a club to pay off debts and loan money to them would you be willing to accept £1 in return? The percentage on promotion isnt guaranteed money either is it? Hoffman cant even write a formal offer properly so i very much doubt he can fulfil promises he is coming up with right now anyway. I appreciate you dont like SISU but if i was them i certainly would sell for £1 and would want names of investors, a full business plan and a valid offer before i even considered selling up.

Godiva · Jul 23, 2011

SkyBluesAndy said:
Completely fed up of the situation about a takeover now, there is news on it almost daily but we are still no clearer about what the hell is going on.

Godiva said:
News??? What news???
I must have missed something as I haven't seen any news since the chairman told they'd dismissed some scribbles from Hoffman.

I have seen a lot of rumors, speculations and allegations - but news ... nope.

SkyBluesAndy said:
Well news, gossip, rumours, bullsh*t, whatever you want to call it, either way its in the telegraph almost daily is what I'm saying.

Yes, it seems that Hoffman, Elliott and Keys have very easy access to the CT, but the paper does not deserve any credit for not at least pretending to do some journalism and ask a few critical questions like

- Some of the frontmen for the take over was deeply involved in running the club for the past three years. Do you not feel any responsibility for what you call 'the fiasco'?
- How will the setup with new investors be any different from the current setup?
- How will you make sure the club are ready for the new economic fairness rules that will be implemented next season?
- Should a new management fail to live within the budgets, what assurances will there be that the new investors will facilitate the deficit - and continue to do so for three or more years?
- Is this takeover proposal driven by bad blood between the frontmen and SISU?
- If the takeover is driven by love to the club, would you consider a co-ownership with SISU and use the new money on buying the stadium and investing in the squad instead of using them on paying out a loan on which the club pays no interest?

You see - there are actually questions that could - and should - be asked by professionel journalists, but sadly in this case the CT has decided to just give away free advertising space for the potential new owners. In the process they stir up the fans, giving them a one-sided view on the proceedings leading only to dissatisfaction and disruption. It WILL eventually affect the team performances.

Regis87 · Jul 23, 2011

cant see it happening for a while , hopefully before we enter administration which i am sure will happen under sisu

les_miserables · Jul 23, 2011

These things take time if it is pretty straight forward, our situation is anything but straight forward. Would be nice to see a conclusion before the transfer window shuts but I reckon it will be a couple of months or more, but it will happen, SISU cannot go on putting half a million a month into a deadbeat business. Even when SISU have gone it will take time, don't expect us to be doing a Leicester and spending money willy nilly. A long season the championship and as we have seen loads of times it seems to be after xmas things hot up. We must just hope for a bit of luck and not too many problems re. injuries. I think if Thorn can pick a regular team for a few weeks in a row we can do okay.

mattylad · Jul 23, 2011

So many members of SISU on this thread

sky blue john · Jul 23, 2011

fanta80 said:
So if you had invested millions into a club to pay off debts and loan money to them would you be willing to accept £1 in return? The percentage on promotion isnt guaranteed money either is it? Hoffman cant even write a formal offer properly so i very much doubt he can fulfil promises he is coming up with right now anyway. I appreciate you dont like SISU but if i was them i certainly would sell for £1 and would want names of investors, a full business plan and a valid offer before i even considered selling up.

Well Fanta all I am going to say to you is what is the current value of our club ?

skyblue_rich · Jul 23, 2011

Sisu haven't invested millions in paying off the debts. All they have done is defer them until we get promoted. Plus they got people to write off their money, instead of repaying them. So stop this nonsense about how much they have invested. They haven't invested a lot, plus all this new money which "saved" the club in march, came from the sale of prozone. Sisu have stopped funding the club, so the board have to sell/mortgage to keep it going. Sisu haven't invested 30 million, more around 8million

Nonleagueherewecome · Jul 23, 2011

I like the cut of your jib there, skyblue_rich! It really depends on the definition of "investment"! I don't see what is happening now as that and it's clear to many that we've been written off as a "bad deal" by the SISU Venture (vulture?) Capitalist dragons. I think I've just about had enough of arguing the same old points with the SISU gang, so it's good to see that others can articulate what I think so well for me

BurbageSkyBlues · Jul 23, 2011

You are not alone, nonleague, far from it. It's just that there are some vociferous 'pro-sisu' posters (well, maybe it's better to say Hoff-doubters).

What is overlooked is that GH wants to invest in the team and the stadium, as the priorities ( which was the original intention of Sisu, as far as we were led to believe). This approach differs to the current one from Sisu, which seems to be a policy of raising credit by the club ,against ever-dwindling collateral. This policy will lead no where longterm.

I struggle to understand the arguments against Gh- they criticise the lack of a business plan. Please can someone explain the business plan snd strategy that Sisu have for our club? In my humble opinion, theirs is equally undefined, other than a downward spiral of debt and despondency.

BurbageSkyBlues · Jul 23, 2011

Marty said:
Would we actually go into administration though?? As we have no sellable assets left then wouldn't we just go into liquidation??

My understanding is that the administrators try to see if they can make a going concern of a business before it is liquidated. Liquidation requires assets, of which we have few. If there is a possibility of redressing the imbalance between running costs and income, this would be preferential to liquidation of an insolvent business (which is, effectively, what we are-even though I think it will be pointed out that it is illegal to trade when knowingly insolvent)

Tonylinc · Jul 23, 2011

It may be a side-issue BUT as a matter of interest what assets do we have? Do we own Ryton?

Regis87 · Jul 23, 2011

We own the Jimmy Hill statue !
Or do we ?

Tonylinc · Jul 23, 2011

Run Gary run

mattylad · Jul 25, 2011

wonder what the PR wagon that is the CT will roll out this week? who do they bring in to the equation bigger than keys or do they go with another doom and gloom look at the finances

fanta80 · Jul 25, 2011

sky blue john said:
Well Fanta all I am going to say to you is what is the current value of our club ?

So you choose to ignore my points about Hoffman secretly hiding names of investors from SISU, his inability to provide an actual legitimate offer and how the promise of money on promotion isnt guaranteed money. You also failed to answer my question of whether you would accept £1 in their position. However unlike you i will answer a question. The club is clearly worth more than £1 and despite what many people think if SISU hadnt invested money into the club how is it still afloat? As far as im aware we dont owe money to any government organisation or football related debts.

rob9872 · Jul 25, 2011

fanta
fanta
fanta fanta fanta

fanta80 · Jul 25, 2011

rob9872 said:
fanta
fanta
fanta fanta fanta

Thanks for acknowledging me but is there a point to the post?

rob9872 · Jul 25, 2011

Lol - nah no point, just the old advert that gets stuck in my head every time I see you post

Jim · Jul 25, 2011

fanta80 said:
So you choose to ignore my points about Hoffman secretly hiding names of investors from SISU, his inability to provide an actual legitimate offer and how the promise of money on promotion isnt guaranteed money. You also failed to answer my question of whether you would accept £1 in their position. However unlike you i will answer a question. The club is clearly worth more than £1 and despite what many people think if SISU hadnt invested money into the club how is it still afloat? As far as im aware we dont owe money to any government organisation or football related debts.

Hoffman isn't obliged to reveal who the investors are but he will have to provide proof of funds.

As far as value of the club is concerned, £1 covers it. The balance sheet shows a multi-million pound negative and the club is losing several million a year as a rule. The club is worthless business wise and only requires a nominal fee to purchase.

SISU need to cut their losses. There will be no turnaround in fortunes ad they are currently running things and they will continue to loss money week on week.

The only change will happen when an investment is made to purchase the stadium and improve attendances. Of course, to improve attendance will involve investment in the team with a long term aim to be promoted.

rob9872 · Jul 25, 2011

I can't argue with a point you've made on there Jim, but one crucial piece has been overlooked.

SISU don't need to sell like other debt ridden clubs as they are the debt. How they service it with player sales or alternative revenue streams is their look out. They don't owe money outside the group and can try to find alternative investment.

They may not be football people, but I'm sure will understand how competetive this league is, how bare our squad is and with our past record, there is no incentive to suggest that we will be promoted within three years time. After that they get nothing so they are holding on for what they believe is a fair price. The true market value may only be £1, but how can they sell that to their investors who they hope will undertake further projects with them? They neeed to be able to offer them something of worth.

I'm sure they accept it won't be the full £30m or whater the b/s currently shows and I'm sure they have understood the risk, but I would think they will be looking for something like £10m gauranteed before they budge, even if that figure is to be deferred.

Jack Griffin · Jul 25, 2011

The stadium purchase is almost certainly part of the takeover plan as without its turnover City's wage bill will be more restricted due to the new fair play finance rules coming in.
That will cost a lot of money though & any investor will want a return on that, but it could be offset against no longer having to pay £1M rent to ACL, so it probably makes sense for a buyer.

rob9872 · Jul 25, 2011

ACL will still own half so we would still be required to pay £0.5m to them

Jack Griffin · Jul 25, 2011

Yeah, guess so. We will probably pay it to them & they will pay it back in a McDonalds bag at Walsgrave.

Nonleagueherewecome · Jul 25, 2011

fanta80 said:
So you choose to ignore my points about Hoffman secretly hiding names of investors from SISU, his inability to provide an actual legitimate offer and how the promise of money on promotion isnt guaranteed money. You also failed to answer my question of whether you would accept £1 in their position. However unlike you i will answer a question. The club is clearly worth more than £1 and despite what many people think if SISU hadnt invested money into the club how is it still afloat? As far as im aware we dont owe money to any government organisation or football related debts.

Wasn't Fanta the Nazi Coca Cola in WWII? I'm sure that's what Mark Thomas said at a gig up Warwick Uni a few years ago.

I would accept £1 in their position; they're losing (not investing!) heaps of money every week and are hated by a majority of fans.

Only of course they don't think they've lost anything, only the club;-trust me, they intend to make us somehow pay up all the money they wasted by failing to back the original vision. And if they don't get it, they'll kill the club. They deserve ther money back as much as all those people who lose money making bad business decisions.

It really is ironic that a firm who profit from others' misery are completely incapable of playing by the "fair" rules of the capitalist market when it hurts them instead of gives them something for "free".

Godiva · Jul 25, 2011

Nonleagueherewecome said:
I would accept £1 in their (SISU) position; they're losing (not investing!) heaps of money every week and are hated by a majority of fans.

Here's a little lesson in finance and economics:
The loans SISU have made to the club holds it's full value for SISU as long as they are serviced according to the conditions. As the conditions are without periodic rates and without interests, the club can not mis-service the loans and so the loans will keep their full value for SISU.
This means that SISU are actually investing and not losing money.

Nonleagueherewecome said:
Only of course they don't think they've lost anything, only the club;-trust me, they intend to make us somehow pay up all the money they wasted by failing to back the original vision. And if they don't get it, they'll kill the club.

The original vision as you call it was made together with Ranson and a key element with any vision/plan is the budget. As Ranson failed to deliver on the budget it is quite normal that investors held back on further investments until there's a reasonable chance the new money will support a new/revised budget.
This is the key to understand the relationship between SISU and Ranson. Ranson's role was dual. He was a minority investor as well as acting CEO. He was responsible for staying within the budget and when he failed, he - as investor - agreed to a new loan where he delivered a portion according to his share position. BUT - think about this - why did the loan provided by ranson held an interest condition, while the loans from SISU does not???
This leads me to your sentence: ... they intend to make us somehow pay up all the money they wasted ...'
I can't see any evidence that SISU intend (malicious) to make us pay - quite on the contrary. There's certainly nothing to suggest they intend to kill our club.

Nonleagueherewecome said:
They deserve ther money back as much as all those people who lose money making bad business decisions.

They made a poor investment decision as they trusted the people in charge of the business. The people in charge of the business made bad business decisions.

Nonleagueherewecome said:
It really is ironic that a firm who profit from others' misery are completely incapable of playing by the "fair" rules of the capitalist market when it hurts them instead of gives them something for "free".

Well, I think you have seen Wall Street to many times. Hedge Funds are there to turn around business'es in perils. They provide funds where banks and other investors don't. The risks are high and only if they succeed to turn the company around will the gain a (high) profit. If they don't succeed they will sell what they can but end up losing money anyway.

Finally, as there is relatively quite from both Brody and the Hoffman brigade you should take this as a good sign - they may actually be sitting around a table negotiating either a take over or a joint venture.

Takeover update (1 Viewer)

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