team fundamentals (2 Viewers)

oldskyblue58 · Nov 23, 2011

There are a number of issues I have with the team, how it plays and its ability to perform. It isnt about the formation as such although I firmly believe the diamond for the squad we have is far too fragile and easily overcome by the opposition. There are things about CCFC teams over the recent seasons that remain constant to a great degree

- we lack pace. It isnt just physical pace it is speed of thought and execution. We take a comparative age to make a decision and execute a pass. Couple that with a lack of physical pace and we are slow and deliberate.
- our movement is poor. We react to a pass rather than move to make the pass easier, quicker, more effective. We stand and wait for things to happen, we dont move and make those things happen
- we do not contribute enough goals from midfield in particular but also from defence.
- we are shot shy
- we seem to have lost the passion and drive that kept us in the premiership so long. We dont pressure the ball we drop off and generally defend 3m off a player
- we lack clear unequivocal leadership on the pitch, but also "characters"
- we seem to bring players in then either coach their qualities out of them or make them fit a style of play that doesnt get the best from them.
- (Last season aside) we lack fitness and seem injury prone - do we have the right backroom staff?
- we seem to remove confidence from many players

above all losing has become the habit, the norm. We dont go out with the attitude of we will win, we go out with the attitude of if things go well we might get something. Then when it doesnt we point to how unlucky we have been, could have, would have should have - all just excuses. The whole ethos of CCFC is focussed in loss and avoiding it - not in winning and how to get it

CUS Wyken · Nov 23, 2011

There’s no balance in the side, especially in midfield we have 4 central midfields playing alongside one another.
Thorn really needs to mix it up because it’s becoming a joke this diamond formation. So one dimensional.

torchomatic · Nov 23, 2011

Nice post. I agree. We must make loads of passes each game but on average they are for about five yards and either sideways or backwards.

The shot shy thing hasn't just afflicted this team but many of our squads in the past. What is so difficult about having a speculative shot from outside the box? Let's face it, we're not good enough at the moment to be able to get into goalscoring positions in the area. The only chance we have of scoring it seems at the moment is via a dead ball situation and Clingans deliveries are pretty poor of late, particularly his corners which seem to fly over the heads of everyone. The only bright spot for me if the continued improvement of Hussey who really does have a sweet left foot and can really cross the ball well.

And finally I would make Keogh captain. I don't think Clingan has the heart or the leadership qualities to carry it off.

We'll_live_and_die · Nov 23, 2011

torchomatic said:
And finally I would make Keogh captain. I don't think Clingan has the heart or the leadership qualities to carry it off.

Good Shout, Strong, Skilled, Commands the back 4 well, vocal and reads the game well. By far the strongest player in our squad in my opinion.

stupot07 · Nov 23, 2011

Re: injuries - I wouldn't say it is due to a lack of fitness this season, the ones out injured are the same that were out most of last season or picked up niggles last season - McPake, deegan, bell, eastwood, Mcsheffrey,etc

Otis · Nov 23, 2011

I do believe a good manager could get this team playing with more movement, creating more chances and scoring more goals as a result. Think we're stuck with Thorn though.

We'll_live_and_die · Nov 23, 2011

Otis said:
I do believe a good manager could get this team playing with more movement, creating more chances and scoring more goals as a result. Think we're stuck with Thorn though.

Bring back Boothroyd. We're still paying him anyway.

oldskyblue58 · Nov 23, 2011

stupot07 said:
Re: injuries - I wouldn't say it is due to a lack of fitness this season, the ones out injured are the same that were out most of last season or picked up niggles last season - McPake, deegan, bell, eastwood, Mcsheffrey,etc

I agree as far as injuries go but I do think that as a whole this season I do not think the squad is as fit as last year. They seem to run out of energy in last 15mins. I know the youngsters have an impact on that whilst they develop strength at this level but the senior players seem less fit

stupot07 · Nov 23, 2011

oldskyblue58 said:
I agree as far as injuries go but I do think that as a whole this season I do not think the squad is as fit as last year. They seem to run out of energy in last 15mins. I know the youngsters have an impact on that whilst they develop strength at this level but the senior players seem less fit

I think you have to take in to consideration that we are playing 3 teenagers who were 17 when the season kicked off and physically and physiologically are not fully developed. You can visibly are that they are the 3 that tire quickest under the intensity of first time football.

PVA · Nov 23, 2011

CUS Wyken said:
There’s no balance in the side, especially in midfield we have 4 central midfields playing alongside one another.
Thorn really needs to mix it up because it’s becoming a joke this diamond formation. So one dimensional.

You have to have 4 central midfielders in the diamond. Well, three and one attacking midfielder.

We look more balanced now with Clingan, Biggie and Thomas in there, rather than Clingan, Bell, Baker as we have played before, which is putting wide players in the middle.

Although I do agree that we should try a different formation. How about 4-2-3-1, seems to be one of the most popular formations at the moment...

Murphy

Keogh - cranie -Wood - Hussey

Clingan - Thomas

Bell - Baker - McSheffrey

Jutkiewicz

Thomas/Biggie/Deegan fighting it out for the spot next to Clingan. Gives Bell/Baker/McSheffrey license to roam and swap positions with each other, without too much defensive duties for them.

ashbyjan · Nov 23, 2011

Whilst I agree we should try different things the fundamental problem with your suggestion and those suggesting 442 etc is that to do these we rely on two of the most culpable wasters in the squad, Sheff and Bell. Both these wage sponges have contributed nothing this season of any note and the fact that any formation change would involve these two wastes of DNA just highlights what a parlous state we are in. Diamond, wingsbacks, 442 etc really doesn't matter - if you have shit players you are going to be shit, just in different patterns of shit.

PVA · Nov 23, 2011

Disagree on McSheffrey. He had a pretty rubbish start to the season to be fair, but he's looked better the last few games and he still has the potential to pull something out the bag. e.g the goal v Reading this season. And last year wasn't he our second top scorer?

oldskyblue58 · Nov 23, 2011

PVA said:
Disagree on McSheffrey. He had a pretty rubbish start to the season to be fair, but he's looked better the last few games and he still has the potential to pull something out the bag. e.g the goal v Reading this season. And last year wasn't he our second top scorer?

I take it you didnt go to the match last night then ?

torchomatic · Nov 23, 2011

Fair comment, but he played well on Saturday.

oldskyblue58 said:
I take it you didnt go to the match last night then ?

speedie87 · Nov 23, 2011

would rather mcheffrey played than bell or baker anyday..........

i hate the diamond but if we are going to stick with it, starting with macca and bringing on baker seems to work ok.

feel sorry for mcsheffrey he makes a lot of good runs that get completly ignored. Platt and juke split well first half the last 2 games leaving macca free to make a runs through the but then the midfield make a backwards or sidewards pass and ignore him. Plus he the only player in our midfield who is actually aware of what is behind him and tries to turn when he can. the others often just pass the ball back when they have time.

ashbyjan · Nov 23, 2011

McSheff and run, not two words often associated with each other these days. If it wasn't for his Coventry roots this waster would be treated just the same as Bell, Baker etc and not treated as some sort of hero - he had a couple of good seasons before leaving for Brum but these days he is a lazy busted flush and if we have to rely on his one decent game in ten then we are well and truly stuffed.

BurbageSkyBlues · Nov 23, 2011

OSB's original post, and the underlying sentiment, all point to a club with deep issues -

low moral, on and off the field
poor fitness, consistently
low stamina,
no desire to win games
etc etc etc....

it all stems from how you feel about the future - and, for many years (and more intensely at the moment), there is enormous uncertainty, so it's hard to be motivated. It has to start from the top - the leadership - and that is where the problem lies - there is no belief that the custodians of our club have any intention of taking us forward, so everyone is just plodding along without any ambition, other than to find something better.

Sorry to be gloom and doom, but until it changes at the top, you can't expect everyone else to be determined to make us succeed.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Nov 23, 2011

PVA said:
You have to have 4 central midfielders in the diamond. Well, three and one attacking midfielder.

We look more balanced now with Clingan, Biggie and Thomas in there, rather than Clingan, Bell, Baker as we have played before, which is putting wide players in the middle.

Although I do agree that we should try a different formation. How about 4-2-3-1, seems to be one of the most popular formations at the moment...

Murphy

Keogh - cranie -Wood - Hussey

Clingan - Thomas

Bell - Baker - McSheffrey

Jutkiewicz

Thomas/Biggie/Deegan fighting it out for the spot next to Clingan. Gives Bell/Baker/McSheffrey license to roam and swap positions with each other, without too much defensive duties for them.

Playing Bell, Baker and Mcsheff in the same side is asking for trouble.

wingy · Nov 23, 2011

The Tacit signal from the top is "it does'nt matter",so long as we stay in cost peramiters,and while we're at it remove any talented assets we have.

oldskyblue58 · Nov 23, 2011

take the point about it comes from the top and filters down............. but i would suggest we had the losing habit before SISU even got here. We were already locked into it and SISU have accelerated it

Godiva · Nov 23, 2011

oldskyblue58 said:
There are a number of issues I have with the team, how it plays and its ability to perform. It isnt about the formation as such although I firmly believe the diamond for the squad we have is far too fragile and easily overcome by the opposition. There are things about CCFC teams over the recent seasons that remain constant to a great degree

- we lack pace. It isnt just physical pace it is speed of thought and execution. We take a comparative age to make a decision and execute a pass. Couple that with a lack of physical pace and we are slow and deliberate.
- our movement is poor. We react to a pass rather than move to make the pass easier, quicker, more effective. We stand and wait for things to happen, we dont move and make those things happen
- we do not contribute enough goals from midfield in particular but also from defence.
- we are shot shy
- we seem to have lost the passion and drive that kept us in the premiership so long. We dont pressure the ball we drop off and generally defend 3m off a player
- we lack clear unequivocal leadership on the pitch, but also "characters"
- we seem to bring players in then either coach their qualities out of them or make them fit a style of play that doesnt get the best from them.
- (Last season aside) we lack fitness and seem injury prone - do we have the right backroom staff?
- we seem to remove confidence from many players

You got to be very careful airing new ideas or even trying to think out of the box, but here goes - so shoot me down:

We would benefit from installing a 'football blueprint' and live by it for years to come.
It would state the type of play and preferred formation and go on to set out prioritized skill sets for each position.
This way any new manager would be selected from those who are experienced in that particular type of play and with that formation.
This way new players would be scouted and drafted on the basis of their skill sets according to the priorities laid out in the blueprint.

So new managers would not automatically introduce a new play style and require players with different skill sets to what we got when he walks in the door.

Training would be practice in making the formation and type of play stronger and individually making sure the players develop and maintain their skills to suit the need in their position.

Eventually the team would be mastering a formation with players selected because they simply have naturally strong skills to suit that formation!

Think about it. Coleman, Boothroyd, Thorn all installed different types of play and even formation.

Some would argue that having only one formation and one type of play would leave us vulnerable and unable to change when we are 'found out', but the thing is, that if we master our formation and style of play, it won't matter if the opposition know what we do - we would still be more successful than we are now with players unsuitable for their position and not enough practice in the formation.

ashbyjan · Nov 23, 2011

Fundamentally you are correct Godiva and the classic blueprint for this is of course Barcelona. However where the scheme falls down, certainly in the short term, is who would decide the pattern, formation, philosophy? The current manager? The board? Kenny? The supporters? It takes a strong manager with a strong board backing him and willing to give him time to drive through the sort of root and branch changes you are talking about. These are sadly lacking at CCFC and have been for years. Nice idea but supporters and owners these days have no patience - instant results or you're out.

oldskyblue58 · Nov 23, 2011

Like ashbyjan said thats the blueprint at Barcelona. All their teams play the same way, so players know what to expect as they progress through to the club. It was started by Johan Cruyff, who despite a lot of initial opposition was strong enough to force it through. I bet no one complains now !

Also think jan's other comments are also pertinent to our circumstances. I cannot see it happening but I would fully support it if it did. Makes a lot of sense to me

wingy · Nov 23, 2011

Is this what Swansea have been doing for the last 6-8yrs,very successful model.

Godiva · Nov 23, 2011

Like Newton said: Dwarfs standing on shoulders of giants ...

team fundamentals (2 Viewers)

CCFC Finance Director

New Member

Well-Known Member

Super Moderator

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Super Moderator

CCFC Finance Director

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

CCFC Finance Director

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

CCFC Finance Director

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

CCFC Finance Director

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency