That Farce of a Forum (2 Viewers)

rupert_bear · Jun 8, 2013

I went to that forum farce today. As CWR listeners know it kicked off with the muppet in the middle giving a report on FFP, how it works, how it will work in our case, he went on for a while and very cleverly drew questions about our finances, where the money went, how the debt reached 45/70 million and Fisher and his pal quiet cleverly kept most of the debate on finances. The one reason i was there was to find out for me the most important bit, where will we be playing on August the 3rd. Put hand up but couldn't get Linnells attention and in no time the meeting was over.

Please, please those at Mondays forum and i hope to be there if i can keep these two pricks on the where are we going to play and off the finance smoke screen. Nothing can be done about that, it's old hat, we know the history, we know some of the culprits, the only important thing we can do anything about is the future i.e. where we play. It is the one point Fisher struggles with,gives the excuse that he can't disclose things until we exit administration, fucking clap-trap.

covcity4life · Jun 8, 2013

rupert_bear said:
I went to that forum farce today. As CWR listeners know it kicked off with the muppet in the middle giving a report on FFP, how it works, how it will work in our case, he went on for a while and very cleverly drew questions about our finances, where the money went, how the debt reached 45/70 million and Fisher and his pal quiet cleverly kept most of the debate on finances. The one reason i was there was to find out for me the most important bit, where will we be playing on August the 3rd. Put hand up but couldn't get Linnells attention and in no time the meeting was over.

Please, please those at Mondays forum and i hope to be there if i can keep these two pricks on the where are we going to play and off the finance smoke screen. Nothing can be done about that, it's old hat, we know the history, we know some of the culprits, the only important thing we can do anything about is the future i.e. where we play. It is the one point Fisher struggles with,gives the excuse that he can't disclose things until we exit administration, fecking clap-trap.

Best bit were the guys who made dramatic exits then came back and sat at the back loool

rupert_bear · Jun 8, 2013

Arseholes, the pair of them. People who walk out of any meeting are about as useful as a chocolate fireguard to be honest, you can only influence or do anything if you are there.

wingy · Jun 8, 2013

I didn't feel Clive carried as well as SL last night JMO. Thought TF started off really rocky ,thought he may have been on the sauce. Never truly answered the pertinent questions going off on that history lesson again . I cannot believe they are trying some stunt over naming confusion arising from the early 1900's and Mid 90's as a Vehicle to appear all things in either case ,the one for Companies house and the one for the league. No -one has followed up on the point from the first one which was a round signing a young player ,where they said the FA would allow a registration but the FL wouldn't .

italiahorse · Jun 8, 2013

I'll answer it for you.
We are playing at the Ricoh because the process will drag on into the start of the season and he can't plan a ground share whilst we are in administration.

Otis · Jun 8, 2013

He can't, but he mentioned on Thursday he is in talks with the FL for an interim ground to play at.

We therefore have 3 grounds on the go.

The one we need to find land for to build a new one on, the groundshare one and the the one we need to find as an interim while we wait for the groundshare one.

You couldn't make it up.

3 grounds and none of us fans know about any of them.

simple_simon · Jun 8, 2013

wingy said:
I didn't feel Clive carried as well as SL last night JMO. Thought TF started off really rocky ,thought he may have been on the sauce. Never truly answered the pertinent questions going off on that history lesson again . I cannot believe they are trying some stunt over naming confusion arising from the early 1900's and Mid 90's as a Vehicle to appear all things in either case ,the one for Companies house and the one for the league. No -one has followed up on the point from the first one which was a round signing a young player ,where they said the FA would allow a registration but the FL wouldn't .

Agreed, SL sounded much better and pushed things further

Lord_Nampil · Jun 8, 2013

italiahorse said:
I'll answer it for you.
We are playing at the Ricoh because the process will drag on into the start of the season and he can't plan a ground share whilst we are in administration.

ACL have said they will only deal with ccfc ltd, once ltd is out of administration ACL will have to talk to the new owner of ltd who ever that may be! If for example that is sisu they will have to talk to each other! If ACL refuse too then I am guessing they will be liable! From what I took from last night, the 'plan' is IF ACL won't deal with sisu on the chance they bye back ltd, then we will be ground sharing! If they do speak we will be at the Ricoh next season!

But then if ltd is brought by a 3rd party the whole situation becomes very interesting!!!!

CCFCDan87 · Jun 8, 2013

Badly organised last night, Thursday was much better

rupert_bear · Jun 8, 2013

CCFCDan87 said:
Badly organised last night, Thursday was much better

No it wasn't badly organised it was well organised from a Fisher point of view, he and his mate in the middle manouvored the meeting away from the nitty gritty of where will we be playing come August to another trip down memory lane.

WillieStanley · Jun 8, 2013

I don't think it was badly organised, I think it was poorly controlled be Eakin.

Being there last night just felt very sad to me. A lot of angry people venting their frustration at someone who could not answer in the way they wanted for various reasons. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending anyone or the situation but surely people can see why, at this stage - with admin, a court case against the council and a dispute with ACL, Fisher can't answer every question. It's the same with any business - also, the club is in limbo - the indicitive offers have only just gone in, the FL are ridiculously quiet as they're hoping the whole thing will just blow over and the outcome of this, despite all the planning in the world, could go in a million different directions.

The history of this mess is important.

There were one or two things I couldn't see as to why they were not answered though, such as the 3 grounds, where the money has actually gone - but others such as playing budget and assurances that we will keep players (the avoidance of those answers got severely jeered) obviously can't be disclosed now as I'm not sure whether anyone would be able to make statements on those things in the current situation.

I am certain that if ACL were holding a forum for City fans they would have not been able to answer a lot of questions surrounding the club for the exact same reasons.

torchomatic · Jun 8, 2013

Thanks Willie, maybe ACL should hold a forum.

CCFCDan87 · Jun 8, 2013

rupert_bear said:
No it wasn't badly organised it was well organised from a Fisher point of view, he and his mate in the middle manouvored the meeting away from the nitty gritty of where will we be playing come August to another trip down memory lane.

Considering it was supposed to be organised by the club it was dictated by BBC and Clive eakin. For me I thought Thursday night much better and although SL gets a slaying on here he did a much better job than eakin

WillieStanley · Jun 8, 2013

I think that would be beneficial!! It'd be interesting to here what they say when they're asked if their doors actually are open to the club with SISU in charge.

What I would have liked last night, and I believe a few people have said this, would have been a 20 or so minute presentation on what the plan actually is. Apparently this is what the club wanted to do, but the BBC wouldn't broadcast if they did.

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 8, 2013

WillieStanley said:
What I would have liked last night, and I believe a few people have said this, would have been a 20 or so minute presentation on what the plan actually is. Apparently this is what the club wanted to do, but the BBC wouldn't broadcast if they did.

Could have done the presentation before the broadcast then.

Not learned anything new from these forums. Fisher hasn't persuaded me in any way, but nor has he been interrogated in the way I hoped.

rupert_bear · Jun 8, 2013

To be fair to Clive Eakin on a few occassions he asked Fisher direct questions but it wasn't his show to be fair. Fisher cleverly moved topics to what he was comfortable with and he and his pal laboured on them. People calling out without the mic enabled Fisher to address those comfortable points especially if he didn't like the original question, he also cleverly drafted in his mate in the middle when needed, another diversion.

Mass meetings and i have been at many and run a few are tough and clever convenors when they can will manouver to their advantage, the biggest problem are those who shout from the back, often faceless and mean well but pains in the arse.

stupot07 · Jun 8, 2013

I agree with willie, the history is important that is the real reason we're in this situation now.

quinn1971 · Jun 8, 2013

rupert_bear said:
No it wasn't badly organised it was well organised from a Fisher point of view, he and his mate in the middle manouvored the meeting away from the nitty gritty of where will we be playing come August to another trip down memory lane.

Id say these forums aren't going the way fisher wants.they originally were planned for two hours each.the first one was cut short by 40 mins as it wasn't going the way fisher wanted it to.the same reason why the second forum was only an hour long.These forums were set up by fisher to sell the idea of the new ground to us. Not sold the idea so far has he?

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 8, 2013

quinn1971 said:
These forums were set up by fisher to sell the idea of the new ground to us. Not sold the idea so far has he?

He's barely said anything about it!

WillieStanley · Jun 8, 2013

Actually, I think Fisher got a lot more out of them than we did. You can read all the Telegraph pages and internet forums and see all the petitions you like, until you actually experience the raw passion, concern and despair in real terms, you will not understand it.

Fisher was constantly making notes - he's got to do something with those.

There was a lot of time wasted on ranting last night - there were only 2 rants to my memory worth their salt (The fella at the beginning and the guy from SCG who became my hero "LOOK ME IN THE EYE"). A lot of pointless questions (eg "What was the value of the bid you placed on Ltd" Seriously??!!) but a lot of moments of genuine insightful questioning.

It was a 2 way street. It was not a sell it was a two way street. Unfortunately people didn't get the answers they wanted and got in a huff about it - complaining Tim didn't answer questions but jeering over the ones he did.

rupert_bear · Jun 8, 2013

stupot07 said:
I agree with willie, the history is important that is the real reason we're in this situation now.

But i repeat you can do nothing about history, not a man has ever lived who can change it. Our desperate position is about the here and now, the future of our club is about the here and now, we can DO something about the here and now, not history.

wingy · Jun 8, 2013

Deleted member 5849 said:
Could have done the presentation before the broadcast then.

Not learned anything new from these forums. Fisher hasn't persuaded me in any way, but nor has he been interrogated in the way I hoped.

Or afterwards ,Imagine that to a room of about ten.

WillieStanley · Jun 8, 2013

rupert_bear said:
But i repeat you can do nothing about history, not a man has ever lived who can change it. Our desperate position is about the here and now, the future of our club is about the here and now, we can DO something about the here and now, not history.

Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending

To do that, you need to acknowledge the past and put it right in the present. Whether your a Prime-Minister, Football Club or average Joe.

Otis · Jun 8, 2013

What I don't like Fisher doing is this new information stuff he's coming out with.

He is revealing information at these forums and you have to ask yourselves, why haven't you revealed this information before?

He is playing God a bit here and using a degree of control.

For instance, on Thursday he revealed that the FL had dictated about us having a choice of 3 grounds rather than the club choosing where to play. Why on earth didn't he tell us that before? I see no reason why he couldn't have told fans this and had to wait until the forum to reveal it.

It almost feels like he is playing puppet master at times.

There has been information that he could quite clearly divulged to fans before these forums, but he has seemingly chosen not to and throws these little snippets in when he feels like it.

It's like he's throwing crumbs to the birds.

I've never been anti-Sisu, but l have to say, listening to Fisher on these forums has made me really, really dislike the bloke immensely.

He has really come across as smug, self-satisfied and smarmy. He really comes across like he is taking down to the fans all the time.

To be honest, I think he should be acting in exactly the opposite way to how he is coming across. He should be sympathetic and appeasing, helpful and passionate rather than stoic and looking like he doesn't care how the fans feel.

I think his manner has caused a lot of the anger in the forums. This was a chance to try and get fans onboard, or at least with a better understanding of what they are trying to do.

And all he has seemingly done is to alienate fans further.

stupot07 · Jun 8, 2013

rupert_bear said:
But i repeat you can do nothing about history, not a man has ever lived who can change it. Our desperate position is about the here and now, the future of our club is about the here and now, we can DO something about the here and now, not history.

But it is still important to understand exactly why we were in the mess, who made those decisions and why, where money disappeared to, etc.

Or do we just absolve everyone but sisu of blame?

He said numerous times Thursday and Friday that he is not allowed to say what grounds he's been talking to until we come out of admin, you can rephrase and ask the question as many times as you like that is the response you will get.

torchomatic · Jun 8, 2013

Otis said:
I've never been anti-Sisu,

Ive never been an Olly Murs fan which is why i sent a begging letter for a signed photo.

Sent from my GT-S5830 using Tapatalk 2

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Jun 8, 2013

rupert_bear said:
Arseholes, the pair of them. People who walk out of any meeting are about as useful as a chocolate fireguard to be honest, you can only influence or do anything if you are there.

You say the meeting was a farce etc etc if you dont like what you're being told you dont listen to it or you stay and listen and then complain that it was a toyally useless meeting. One more thing I was one of the areholes that left did I go back in? No. So you were there what did you influence? Nothing. I was there didnt like what I was hearing and left simple. Perhaps if other people who didnt like what they were hearing had done the same it would have sent a message to our Timmy. So before you critisise me think about what you got from the meeting and how you influenced anything.

WillieStanley · Jun 8, 2013

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
You say the meeting was a farce etc etc if you dont like what you're being told you dont listen to it or you stay and listen and then complain that it was a toyally useless meeting. One more thing I was one of the areholes that left did I go back in? No. So you were there what did you influence? Nothing. I was there didnt like what I was hearing and left simple. Perhaps if other people who didnt like what they were hearing had done the same it would have sent a message to our Timmy. So before you critisise me think about what you got from the meeting and how you influenced anything.

If you were who I think you were... you didn't leave, simple - you left as a massive grand gesture!! I must admit, I saw one of the guys come back as I was right next to the door, I smiled.

rupert_bear · Jun 8, 2013

But the blame game is for later, Fisher needs to be pushed on the here and now. So come Monday for example our financial failures are all revealed, those to blame are all known, the facts and reasons are all known, what difference does all that make to where we are presently. Answer this WillieStanley. Where are we playing come August ?

quinn1971 · Jun 8, 2013

Deleted member 5849 said:
He's barely said anything about it!

There's a reason for that.This is how I see it.The main point in all fishers vision .is coming out of administration ASAP. They didn't plan on their own administrator actually doing his job properly.They thought they would have been out of administration by now . He's even admitted himself he's getting frustrated by the administration process.we wont be out of administration by the start of the season.Whoever gets the share back will appeal and it will have to be decided in court . Fisher knows if this happens they will be forced to go back to the ricoh with their tale between their legs.im looking forward to mondays forum

WillieStanley · Jun 8, 2013

rupert_bear said:
But the blame game is for later, Fisher needs to be pushed on the here and now. So come Monday for example our financial failures are all revealed, those to blame are all known, the facts and reasons are all known, what difference does all that make to where we are presently. Answer this WillieStanley. Where are we playing come August ?

Exactly, r_b. Where are we playing?

However, when your presenting a case, you need to lay the foundation. It wasn't like he was saying "This happened in 1995 and that's that" he's saying "This happened in 1995 wheich lead to this and then that and then that and that is how we have arrived here"

Essesntially trying to join the dots. Whether he's connected the dots accurately is another matter, but that is why it is important to talk about '95.

If I was picking up someone elses mess which lead to further mess, and was being blamed for the mess in the first place, I'd certainly make it abundently clear as to how I got there and that the initial mess was not my doing.

WillieStanley · Jun 8, 2013

quinn1971 said:
There's a reason for that.This is how I see it.The main point in all fishers vision .is coming out of administration ASAP. They didn't plan on their own administrator actually doing his job properly.They thought they would have been out of administration by now . He's even admitted himself he's getting frustrated by the administration process.we wont be out of administration by the start of the season.Whoever gets the share back will appeal and it will have to be decided in court . Fisher knows if this happens they will be forced to go back to the ricoh with their tale between their legs.im looking forward to mondays forum

Or alternatively, that ACL lied and the doors truly have been closed to Holdings/SISU.

stupot07 · Jun 8, 2013

rupert_bear said:
But the blame game is for later, Fisher needs to be pushed on the here and now. So come Monday for example our financial failures are all revealed, those to blame are all known, the facts and reasons are all known, what difference does all that make to where we are presently. Answer this WillieStanley. Where are we playing come August ?

What are you going to push him on and what do you expect you will gain from it?

And re: the historic financial failures that have led us here, these are questions that most fans have wanted answers for, for a long time. You say it doesn't affect the here and now but what if Elliott was part of those failures and PH4's bid ends up the preferred bid with Elliott spearheading it?

Otis · Jun 8, 2013

Who knows, Willie.

The whole thing is a mess and all sides have to hold some degree of culpability.

bigfatronssba · Jun 8, 2013

rupert_bear said:
But the blame game is for later, Fisher needs to be pushed on the here and now. So come Monday for example our financial failures are all revealed, those to blame are all known, the facts and reasons are all known, what difference does all that make to where we are presently. Answer this WillieStanley. Where are we playing come August ?

I think the administrator will find sisu as the preferred bidder. Once that happens, the only ones who can save the club are the football league. If they think sisu are unfit owners they might refuse them the golden share. Signing off false accounts for 5 years is hardly likely to support sisus claim to being fit and proper.

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