The “Thorn has nothing to work with” quotes i keep hearing is bollocks and this is wh (1 Viewer)

stupot07 · Oct 5, 2011

But it's about the attributes they brought to the side.

King was/is class and will drag defenders away, he also favours hanging out wide again pulling defenders away, and pushing the back 4 backwards. This then created the space of sheffers to flourish. Gunnar, whether a world beater or not gave us physicality, but was also willing to burst forward with or without the ball, often past sheffers an the strikers, and I bet if you analysed prozone his average touches of the ball were 10-15 yards higher up the pitch than bigi and Thomas. This meant that clingan ha more room at the base of the diamond, and two players who made forward runs creating good passing opportunities. This also enables bell to float in the pocket of space sheffers and gunnar left behind and better options to pass to when he was on the ball. This meant we were more on the front foot which then allowed the back 4 to push up.

Sheffers had a good game against reading because as ineffectual as Cody was his presence pushed there back four back, creating the space for him.

OyJimmy · Oct 5, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
Cookie, Turner didn't once play under Thorn so i wouldn’t class him under the spine bracket. King i admit we miss, Gunnar not sure on him. Westwood as i said further above we miss him but he isn’t what I’m getting at. The outfield players don’t seem to have improved under Thorn. If anything they’ve gone backwards.

Really, they look as good/ bad to me as last year. So what would you do? Change the coaching? Will that mean Jukebox scores 20 goals a season? Or Cranie turns from so so defender (which he's always been) to world class superstar.

And which world class manager with a proven trak record could we afford to bring in to change things? Martin O'Neil?

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 5, 2011

OyJimmy said:
Really, they look as good/ bad to me as last year. So what would you do? Change the coaching? Will that mean Jukebox scores 20 goals a season? Or Cranie turns from so so defender (which he's always been) to world class superstar.

And which world class manager with a proven trak record could we afford to bring in to change things? Martin O'Neil?

So you think we have played better this season compared to the last 10 games of last season? Come off it. I would change the team round and do the following-

Drop ROD for a start, give Cody a run of games. Maybe view games of the opposition and try and look for weaknesses and use them to our advantage. Basically that’s what been a manager is all about. Trying to find flaws in opposition and work best to play against them. Thats what teams have been doing against us. Both Blackpool and Barnsley palyed agianst our weak link. Left side of defence and thats where all goals came from.

Maybe the Scouts are to blame for not giving AT enough info but surely Thorn watches DVD's of the oppo.

Disorganised1 · Oct 5, 2011

I see the problem as being the lack of experience in the team - they can't suddenly switch to different tactics as dictated by the play. We suddenly switched tactics at the end of last season and took teams by surprise when Thorn took over.

Now they know what we're going to play, we need more options.

CovKingChris · Oct 5, 2011

Near enough the same team, but without the spine of the team, a shit goalkeeper, and a load of children in the squad.

OyJimmy · Oct 5, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
So you think we have played better this season compared to the last 10 games of last season?

No but for those games we had King, Westwood and Gunnarson. King being the most influencial player to have adorned sky blue in the last decade in my view.

Mumford and Daughter said:
Drop ROD for a start, give Cody a run of games. Maybe view games of the opposition and try and look for weaknesses and use them to our advantage. Basically that’s what been a manager is all about. Trying to find flaws in opposition and work best to play against them. Thats what teams have been doing against us. Both Blackpool and Barnsley palyed agianst our weak link. Left side of defence and thats where all goals came from.

Maybe the Scouts are to blame for not giving AT enough info but surely Thorn watches DVD's of the oppo.

AT is also the chief scout because SISU are too tight to appoint one probably. AT has tried Mcdonald, Platt and Donovan. In short he's trying everything and I'm sure Mcdonald will get his chance. Platt worked well with the Juke recently. So you would have not played Platt and played Mcdonald in the last home game?

Jeees AT is trying everything short of playing fans.

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 5, 2011

OyJimmy said:
No but for those games we had King, Westwood and Gunnarson. King being the most influencial player to have adorned sky blue in the last decade in my view.

AT is also the chief scout because SISU are too tight to appoint one probably. AT has tried Mcdonald, Platt and Donovan. In short he's trying everything and I'm sure Mcdonald will get his chance. Platt worked well with the Juke recently. So you would have not played Platt and played Mcdonald in the last home game?

Jeees AT is trying everything short of playing fans.

Jimmy, a partnership don't just happen, it needs time. Juke and Cody haven't had more then 120 mins together. They need 4 or 5 games min to see if they work. Platt is an impact player who can change a game with 25 mins or so to go. I would never start with him personally.

kg82 · Oct 5, 2011

Sack him, he's definitely had enough time and resources to get some success now...

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 5, 2011

kg82 said:
Sack him, he's definitely had enough time and resources to get some success now...

Where has anyone mentioned sacking him? Just voicing concerens. There's a difference.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Oct 5, 2011

King is obviously a hug miss as well as scoring goals he offered himself for forward passes giving the midfielders someone to pass to. Gunnar has been missed more than people expected or want to admit, we miss his driving runs and energy in midfield to raise the tempo. Mcsheffrey was vital to our team last season and at the end of last season we went 4 games without a win or something when he became injured, this season he simply hasn't been at the races apart from one game. Add to this we have had to play 3/4 18 year olds at one time this season.

I am not saying Thorn is god or doing a terrific job, I do question his tactics and team selection some times but we couldn't expect much more from a rookie manager given the resources he has had.

Macca · Oct 5, 2011

kg82 said:
Sack him, he's definitely had enough time and resources to get some success now...

it isn't a sack him or back him debate ( i don't think) well not for me anyway

otherwise i've wasted yet more of my life

Disorganised1 · Oct 5, 2011

Macca said:
it isn't a sack him or back him debate ( i don't think) well not for me anyway

otherwise i've wasted yet more of my life

I think we've all wasted years.

kg82 · Oct 5, 2011

Seems like the easiest way out to me. I'm hearing more concerns about Thorn. Well, not really concerns, more constructive stuff like "He's shit" and "Get him the fuck out". I just thought I'd put my two-pence worth in, even though I have no concerns with him at this time.

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 5, 2011

kg82 said:
Seems like the easiest way out to me. I'm hearing more concerns about Thorn. Well, not really concerns, more constructive stuff like "He's shit" and "Get him the fuck out". I just thought I'd put my two-pence worth in, even though I have no concerns with him at this time.

You show me where people have "He's shit" and "Get him the fuck out"?

covcity4life · Oct 5, 2011

kg82-this thread has been a good debate so far,not sure what you mean

Sky Blue Sheepy · Oct 5, 2011

I used to see Thorn as the miracle worker, but I'm starting to see that he does have limitations.
Regarding the squad, I still don't see why McDonald hasn't played at least some part in the last 2 games. Cody has shown glimpses of his ability and I want him to get a run so he can show us his best - how Platt plays over him I don't know (not to say Platt has been bad for us, but he plays a similar game to Jutkiewicz - holding the ball and bringing others into the game, rather than being the person who feeds off them.)

I still have faith that, with the 2 weeks off they now have, Cody + Juke can build a good partnership - to me they seem perfect for each other; Juke holding the ball and beating his man, which should give Cody a little extra space to run into and score.
Here's hoping!

kg82 · Oct 5, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
You show me where people have "He's shit" and "Get him the fuck out"?

Mumford, I didn't mean on here (sorry, I didn't make that clear). At the last few games, I've just had random people come up to me and mumble these things to me, and when I fail to agree they mumble other things and walk off. I think I'm becoming disillusioned with our fans, there doesn't seem to be any sense of perspective on our position. Didn't mean to take it out on here though, I apologise.

kg82 · Oct 5, 2011

Anyway, here's another opinion of mine (ignore the first one, bad day) - the defence seems to be a lot more suspect than towards the end of last season. Personally, I think a lot of this is down to a lack of confidence in Murphy. I'm not saying he's rubbish by the way, he just fills me with dread every time the ball goes near him!! He doesn't command his area and THAT is why I think we're looking more suspect at the back.

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 5, 2011

kg82 said:
Anyway, here's another opinion of mine (ignore the first one, bad day) - the defence seems to be a lot more suspect than towards the end of last season. Personally, I think a lot of this is down to a lack of confidence in Murphy. I'm not saying he's rubbish by the way, he just fills me with dread every time the ball goes near him!! He doesn't command his area and THAT is why I think we're looking more suspect at the back.

I agree with Murphy, he don't seem to have the confidence of the back 4. I thought Dunn look decent in that brief 45 min stunt against Derby. Commanded the box and looked comfortable.

kg82 · Oct 5, 2011

That's my take on defence. While I agree that Dunn looked comfortable, it was only 45 minutes. But, I'd have no qualms about letting him have the gloves and giving him more game time. Now, going forward I don't think we're actually that bad. Even against Barnsley we had the better chances. We really need to start converting them though. Be nice to have a bit more back up in midfield and up front though. I still can't believe O'Donovan missed that chance early on against Barnsley but I suppose it still wasn't as bad as Torres'! But if we want to have any chance of moving up the league then it's those sort of chances that have to take. They've got to be more ruthless and also - and I'm really sorry about saying this by the way - that means if there's any chance of going down in the box then do it. Teams do it against us and sometimes I really feel we're too honest (in relation to todays game).

ashbyjan · Oct 5, 2011

Not gospel by any means but a contact who supports Northampton told me that Dunn has all the physical attributes to be a good keeper, big, strong, brave but unfortunately the whole is less than the sum of the parts and they were not sorry to see him go. Maybe he will improve with good coaching from Oggy but they certainly didn't rate him too highly. Could be fickle home fans but doubt it.

Grendel · Oct 5, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
Why?

This was the team against Norwich

M. Quirke
R. Keogh
M. Cranie
C. Hussey
J. Clarke
A. Gunnarsson
S. Clingan
D. Bell
C. Baker
M. King
L. Jutkiewicz

This performance was exciting and left Coventry fans leaving Carrow Road excited. This is near enough the same team for the exception of King and Gunnar. Why have we become so poor?

You cannot really compare then with now. One reason is that the game last season meant nothing it eas an end of season party for Norwich. King is another obvious reason - without him the goals are really at a premium.

kg82 · Oct 5, 2011

If they're talking ability wise then you could see he has ability, even in the short stint that he had. Because of that, if they're talking mistakes wise, then those can be coached out. I think we've got a decent keeper there.

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 5, 2011

kduffy said:
You cannot really compare then with now. One reason is that the game last season meant nothing it eas an end of season party for Norwich. King is another obvious reason - without him the goals are really at a premium.

That was an example duffy from the last few games. The starting 11 apart from Gunnar and King is pretty much what we've had this season. I seen great promise from the team last part of the season but not much this season apart from 20 min periods here and there.

Paxman II · Oct 5, 2011

Quote from OSB: "All reasons/excuses for not being as good this season - but I still think too many senior players have under performed this season so far and that highlights the players who left were decent but had their faults. Saturday's game left me thinking that too many players didnt know what their jobs on the pitch were. We also either by instruction or lack of confidence pass back too much and play too slowly - is that how AT wants us to play or is it the players scared to play ?"

...this is eluding to my other post where I have questions regarding the 'coaching' practices and just maybe we should be looking closer at that. After all it's no secret Harrison has been the 'senior coach' at CCFC through several recent managerial flops?
Just as a side swipe example of this....I hold my head in my hands every time i see our players standing waiting and wondering what to do and who to give the ball to when we get a throw in! Now that alone is basic coaching and surely to god even Harrison can get that sorted?!
Thorn says we never got in their faces or 'at em' each week and that suggest he expects a certain 'urgency' about our game yet here we are with players taking 5 minutes to take a throw in?
Is there a break down in communication between Thorn's requirements and Harrison's coaching?

rob9872 · Oct 5, 2011

The league is full of journeyman pro's, kids, and loanees. Some teams have big players and play direct, others choose a more easy on the eye passing style that we have emoployed under Thorn.

However, being solid, organised and together are an attribute that most if not all teams can muster. A bit of luck here and there with decisions, injuries, suspensions, confidence and other such variables can turn a decent season into a great one or a poor season into a disasterous one, but I defy anyone to say that if you put the best GK, striker and the most creative midfielder into any side in the league then the measurable difference is immense.

In this league would say that wer are still marginally better than some teams around us (although I do think we'll be relegated), but imo Doncaster look the weakest and in their current rightful position. If you added Green Emnes and Nolan to what they currently have I think they would be pushing for the play-offs. That's how close it is and waht a difference it can make.

In short, we most definitely miss our lost and not replaced players and I don't expect Thorn or anyone else to be able to perform without them. I'm not suggesting AT is good, bad or indifferent but merely that it is impossible to judge.

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 5, 2011

Can't disagree with any of that to be fair Rob.

kg82 · Oct 5, 2011

rob9872 said:
The league is full of journeyman pro's, kids, and loanees. Some teams have big players and play direct, others choose a more easy on the eye passing style that we have emoployed under Thorn.

However, being solid, organised and together are an attribute that most if not all teams can muster. A bit of luck here and there with decisions, injuries, suspensions, confidence and other such variables can turn a decent season into a great one or a poor season into a disasterous one, but I defy anyone to say that if you put the best GK, striker and the most creative midfielder into any side in the league then the measurable difference is immense.

In this league would say that wer are still marginally better than some teams around us (although I do think we'll be relegated), but imo Doncaster look the weakest and in their current rightful position. If you added Green Emnes and Nolan to what they currently have I think they would be pushing for the play-offs. That's how close it is and waht a difference it can make.

In short, we most definitely miss our lost and not replaced players and I don't expect Thorn or anyone else to be able to perform without them. I'm not suggesting AT is good, bad or indifferent but merely that it is impossible to judge.

Rob, Donnie are like 17th or 18th at the moment! Did you mean they were in their rightful position when they were bottom? If so, yeah I agree! I'm different though, I DON'T think we'll be relegated. I'm not basing this on any reason other than a hunch.

Nonleagueherewecome · Oct 5, 2011

To the OP-if my regular comments defending the manager are bollocks, then they aren't near to the amount of bollocks some say slagging him off. You really need to wake up and smell the coffee.

Macca · Oct 5, 2011

to be fair criticism is not necessarily "slagging someone off" well not for me anyway.

baseless comments like "Thorn is shit" "Or Thorn knows nothing" are different of course

rob9872 · Oct 5, 2011

kg82 said:
Rob, Donnie are like 17th or 18th at the moment! Did you mean they were in their rightful position when they were bottom? If so, yeah I agree! I'm different though, I DON'T think we'll be relegated. I'm not basing this on any reason other than a hunch.

My bad. Yes mate I did think they were bottom. Also just checked their website and note that they've signe Piquionne and according to reports are after Diarra from Real Madrid. I guess we can dream

wingy · Oct 5, 2011

Sisu out,regarding cody from youtube most of his goals were individual ,not nessecarilly reliant on a partnership with the other striker,and how easy is it, to motivate your squad when they know that come january 2-3 senior pro's are on their way,if Sisu were a betting syndicate they'd have backed us to go down .What ,they did???????????????

kg82 · Oct 5, 2011

WHAT, Piquionne's gone there?! What the hell?! I heard the Diarra one earlier, my mate text me about it. Apparently it was in the star so I wouldn't put any money on it happening! I'm sure they got linked with someone else last week who would be a great signing for anyone in this division, but I can't remember who it was.

wingy · Oct 5, 2011

Pascal Chimbonda

kg82 · Oct 5, 2011

wingy said:
Pascal Chimbonda

That was it! Not as good as I had in my head, but he'd probably be decent at this level. Any idea how they're being linked with and, in the case of Piquionne, getting these players?

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