The Balance / When Will You Be Concerned.... (3 Viewers)

CovisGod · Jul 21, 2016

I remember posting a similar thread last year, and was just wondering people's opinions. Obviously Mowbray has said he wants to wait for the right players, which is fair but where's the balancright are we actually going to need to start to get bodies through the door? I remember last season we signed players on consecutive days for a couple of weeks and we joked when there was a day without a signing, how close to the season start was it last year? Is anyone concerned yet that we won't have a squad ready for the new season? If not when will you be concerned? Here's the list of players gone and in so far -

At the moment with 2 weeks to go

OUT

Reda Johnson
Conor Thomas
Aaron Martin
Martin Lorentzson
Jim O'Brien
Aaron Phillips
Peter Ramage
Stephen Hunt
Darius Henderson
James Maddison
Adam Armstrong
Jacob Murphy
Jack Stephens
Joe Cole

IN

Jones
Sordell
Thomas
McCann

Do you think the team we've got currently is good enough to compete? Do you think Mowbray will come up trumps and start drafting players in? A lot of our biggest earners have gone and apparently season tickets are up 3k on this time last season so surely there's a budget there for the right players.

Sat here with everything crossed that the team starts to take shape soon, but trust Mowbray and think he must have a few irons in the fire....

Otis · Jul 21, 2016

CovisGod said:
I remember posting a similar thread last year, and was just wondering people's opinions. Obviously Mowbray has said he wants to wait for the right players, which is fair but where's the balancright are we actually going to need to start to get bodies through the door? I remember last season we signed players on consecutive days for a couple of weeks and we joked when there was a day without a signing, how close to the season start was it last year? Is anyone concerned yet that we won't have a squad ready for the new season? If not when will you be concerned? Here's the list of players gone and in so far -

At the moment with 2 weeks to go

OUT

Reda Johnson
Conor Thomas
Aaron Martin
Martin Lorentzson
Jim O'Brien
Aaron Phillips
Peter Ramage
Stephen Hunt
Darius Henderson
James Maddison
Adam Armstrong
Jacob Murphy
Jack Stephens
Joe Cole

IN

Jones
Sordell
Thomas
McCann
.

Well, you need to look at that list of outgoing players and see who we will really miss. (You missed Fleck off by the way. )

Johnson? We didn't even have him for 80% of the season and you could just about ditto that for Conor Thomas too.

Will we miss Lorentzson? No. Ramage, Hunt, Henderson? Definitely not.

Cole? Again I would say no. He flattered to deceive for the most part. Philips was frozen out for long periods anyway and Maddison missed most of the season.

Looking at the squad as it stands now, I would say we are only missing Aaron Martin and Adam Armstrong. Murphy was very inconsistent and we didn't really have Stephens for that long anyway.

I am not too unduly worried and there will still be loans to come.

Orca · Jul 21, 2016

CovisGod said:
Do you think the team we've got currently is good enough to compete? Do you think Mowbray will come up trumps and start drafting players in? A lot of our biggest earners have gone and apparently season tickets are up 3k on this time last season so surely there's a budget there for the right players.

Sat here with everything crossed that the team starts to take shape soon, but trust Mowbray and think he must have a few irons in the fire....

The playing budget has been fixed to be the same as last season. Confirmed in SCG minutes. Gates went up over 20%, but it looks like none of that is being invested

With the squad we have now, mid table is the best we can hope for.

Skyblueweeman · Jul 21, 2016

Agree with Otis. The squad is undoubtedly a lot lower on numbers but the majority of the list above of whom we no longer have, is actually a list of players who I'd rather were no longer here (not all by the way).

skybluebeduff · Jul 21, 2016

Missed off Fortune as well.

SISU have reduced the budget again this season, so we won't even fill half of the players who left.

Otis · Jul 21, 2016

Could be though that Mowbray has faith in some of the youngsters too. Stevenson and Spence especially spring to mind.

Two or three youngsters step up and you have immediately filled some of the gap right there!

stupot07 · Jul 21, 2016

Orca said:
The playing budget has been fixed to be the same as last season. Confirmed in SCG minutes. Gates went up over 20%, but it looks like none of that is being invested

With the squad we have now, mid table is the best we can hope for.

A little bit of a red herring that, Gates were up but prices were lower last season. I'd imagine the ticket revenue was not that much more than the previous season despite the rise in attendance. We will find out when thr accoubts get released in April.

Agree with your assessment of the squad though, midtable at best as we're lacking numbers and the defence is a real concern as is goals.

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Otis · Jul 21, 2016

stupot07 said:
A little bit of a red herring that, Gates were up but prices were lower last season. I'd imagine the ticket revenue was not that much more than the previous season despite the rise in attendance. We will find out when thr accoubts get released in April.

Agree with your assessment of the squad though, midtable at best as we're lacking numbers and the defence is a real concern as is goals.

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Hey!!!!!! Stop pissing on my chips before the season has even started!

I'm trying to be buoyant!

Hobo · Jul 21, 2016

Maddison hardly played either and when he did he was rubbish.

chiefdave · Jul 21, 2016

Orca said:
Gates went up over 20%, but it looks like none of that is being invested

We sold Maddison to cover losses last year as the reduction in ticket prices didn't increase attendance sufficiently.

With reverting back to our normal pricing structure it looks like they are targeting achieving the same budget without the need to sell in January.

chiefdave · Jul 21, 2016

A lot of players on that list didn't feature too much last year. Their places can probably be filled with the younger players coming through. We're probably only 2 or 3 signings away from being in a similar position to last year. Ideally I'd like those in before the first game but won't panic if it hasn't happened.

stupot07 · Jul 21, 2016

Otis said:
Hey!!!!!! Stop pissing on my chips before the season has even started!

I'm trying to be buoyant!

I only mean the current squad! There are more signings to be had!

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letsallsingtogether · Jul 21, 2016

chiefdave said:
We sold Maddison to cover losses last year as the reduction in ticket prices didn't increase attendance sufficiently.

With reverting back to our normal pricing structure it looks like they are targeting achieving the same budget without the need to sell in January.

You are a real joker stop it couldn't stop laughing

Liquid Gold · Jul 21, 2016

My only worry is that there is a distinct possibility that we've missed out on Mowbray's first choice targets and are now looking around for others.

Deleted member 2477 · Jul 21, 2016

Im worried when you also consider bothtudguy and rickets will only be part players this season. Maderson was exeptional until his ijury as was reida. We have no proven goal scorer to replace armstrong and murphy and the defence is severely lacking at the moment. We definately need a striker, rb and two centre halves to have a squad capable of last year let alone improving

ajsccfc · Jul 21, 2016

We're down numbers-wise, but going from that list of exits quite a few of those were just bodies on a bench or at a training ground rather than making a big contribution. Armstrong, Fleck, Murphy and Martin are the players I want to see replacements or equivalents for and we may even already have some of them with Gadzhev, Jones and the new forwards. With Martin gone it's the defensive side which concerns me at the moment, one or two in and I'll feel a little settled ahead of the inevitable handful of loans.

Ashdown · Jul 21, 2016

The club has been set up and financially stabilised as a League 1 club. Of course there will be more incoming signings but only on bottom budget basis. As long as this club manages to finish mid table our owners will continue with their only mission and that is success in the courts and an opportunity for tax avoidance against their more profitable ventures. We're trapped by the balls by unscrupulous tossers who have pissed off all the major authorities in the City to the point that they in turn it seems, want us to fail.
The Chinese have now bought Villa and Wolves and are investing heavily in Sheffield City Centre...................are there any other wealthy guys out there please ?

Deleted member 2477 · Jul 21, 2016

Well said.
Sisu OUT

oldskyblue58 · Jul 21, 2016

Orca said:
The playing budget has been fixed to be the same as last season. Confirmed in SCG minutes. Gates went up over 20%, but it looks like none of that is being invested

With the squad we have now, mid table is the best we can hope for.

Is that the budget that apparently over spent even with a 20% increase in gates or the corrected one to keep us within cash flow though or is it the SCMP calculated one which would exclude the Academy players promoted to first team this season or a figure set for all wages? Teams, not just CCFC, often talk about budget but rarely define what they actually mean

superskyblue · Jul 21, 2016

I think you can pretty much count Gadzhev as a new signing too. He barely played last year.

Sky Blue Kid · Jul 21, 2016

oldskyblue58 said:
Is that the budget that apparently over spent even with a 20% increase in gates or the corrected one to keep us within cash flow though or is it the SCMP calculated one which would exclude the Academy players promoted to first team this season or a figure set for all wages? Teams, not just CCFC, often talk about budget but rarely define what they actually mean

Wouldn't surprise me if the "Break Even" gate will be 16k this season, and we don't have enough playing staff atm. I'd estimate at least another 6-7 players needed. Will we get them?... I won't hold my breath.

wingy · Jul 21, 2016

oldskyblue58 said:
Is that the budget that apparently over spent even with a 20% increase in gates or the corrected one to keep us within cash flow though or is it the SCMP calculated one which would exclude the Academy players promoted to first team this season or a figure set for all wages? Teams, not just CCFC, often talk about budget but rarely define what they actually mean

So many questions.
If we achieve the average of last season what increase in take will be achieved through price increase or does that balance the 3000 shortfall last season? Do ticketmaster take a percentage as the £1 admin fee plus postage is very low for them.

fernandopartridge · Jul 21, 2016

I'm not bothered personally, if we started the season with a load of kids playing I'd still get behind them. I am never optimistic anyway!

Orca · Jul 21, 2016

oldskyblue58 said:
Is that the budget that apparently over spent even with a 20% increase in gates or the corrected one to keep us within cash flow though or is it the SCMP calculated one which would exclude the Academy players promoted to first team this season or a figure set for all wages? Teams, not just CCFC, often talk about budget but rarely define what they actually mean

I know it's more complex and I'll bow to your greater knowledge here. My read of it came from the SCG Minutes which said:

2) The Playing Budget

The playing budget, which includes player salaries, appearances and bonuses, loan players where applicable, hotel expenses etc, but which excludes management and coaching staff wages and expenses, will remain at roughly the same levels for 2016/17. The playing budget is less than, for instance, Sheffield United, Millwall and Wigan – around or in excess of £4Mio but more than, for instance, Burton, Walsall and Gillingham – all around £1.5Mio.

FRY-CCFC · Jul 21, 2016

I'll be worried about 3 days before the season starts if we still have not signed anyone new. I doubt it though.

oldskyblue58 · Jul 21, 2016

Just a guess but I would think with 6000 season tickets sold that will increase income by 300k (if the overall mix results in a £50ph increase but that might be a bit high) excl VAT

if we then average 12000 in total for the year then that should put turnover by another 300k or so (that's 23 games at an extra £2 per head on average x 6000 non STH's) excl VAT

so that's around 600k additional income from price increases which means an extra 360k player budget

Deleted member 2477 · Jul 21, 2016

Our player budget was greater than burton and gillingham.
Thats great well done sisu !!!

georgehudson · Jul 21, 2016

so, would it therefore appear that our owners will not speculate to accumulate

Sky Blue Kid · Jul 21, 2016

georgehudson said:
so, would it therefore appear that our owners will not speculate to accumulate

It's not in their DNA georgehudson.

oldskyblue58 · Jul 21, 2016

This was the 2013 accounts analysis when I believe ticket prices were similar but average crowd 10906. No point looking at the Sixfield year

Since then the shop has been franchised out, F&B is a small percentage share and car parking apparently non existent (old lease ccfc had 900 spaces to sell), hospitality sales have dropped and match progs franchised out. Turnover 2015 was 4.7m

Would estimate that 2016 budgeted turnover is probably in region of £5.5m and that gives a SCMP player budget of 3.3m

Captain Dart · Jul 21, 2016

oldskyblue58 said:
Would estimate that 2016 budgeted turnover is probably in region of £5.5m and that gives a SCMP player budget of 3.3m

So it will be £2M then.

ccfcrob · Jul 21, 2016

marcusp said:
Im worried when you also consider bothtudguy and rickets will only be part players this season. Maderson was exeptional until his ijury as was reida. We have no proven goal scorer to replace armstrong and murphy and the defence is severely lacking at the moment. We definately need a striker, rb and two centre halves to have a squad capable of last year let alone improving

I think your keyboard needs cleaning. The keys are clearly stuck together!

Skybluenutterman · Jul 21, 2016

Maybe it's because SISU will only start paying for them from the 11th hour. Why can't we just sign a player and then it be announced. McCann hasn't signed yet. The Burnley fellow is only a rumour but we're living on scraps of activity I suppose. Wouldn't surprise me if he went elsewhere if there was other interest. We go to Norwich next week for our penultimate game of pre season with a team that will never compete at this low level!!

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Nick · Jul 21, 2016

Skybluenutterman said:
Maybe it's because SISU will only start paying for them from the 11th hour. Why can't we just sign a player and then it be announced. McCann hasn't signed yet. The Burnley fellow is only a rumour but we're living on scraps of activity I suppose. Wouldn't surprise me if he went elsewhere if there was other interest. We go to Norwich next week for our penultimate game of pre season with a team that will never compete at this low level!!

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McCann can't sign due to his parent club.

Why did we get Jones right at the very start?

Sky Blue Kid · Jul 21, 2016

Nick said:
McCann can't sign due to his parent club.

Why did we get Jones right at the very start?

Coz we'd have lost out to other clubs otherwise.

The Balance / When Will You Be Concerned.... (3 Viewers)

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