The big question (1 Viewer)

dongonzalos · Oct 5, 2014

A consortium with a sports team that currently attracts 7000 fans. Has looked at a deal that would involve buying 90% of ACL. They have looked at this deal and concluded that they can make money out if it.

SISU have looked at buying ACL and concluded that it can't work. Their current plan is to build a new stadium. This will cost at least 30 million.

When people are saying the SBT should be doing something. I agree councillors, the CET, CWR, the SBT, Rob and Michael's people should all be asking the obvious........

Why are the club not counter bidding so we have a stadium in Coventry and a financially secure future?

torchomatic · Oct 5, 2014

Maybe we don't have £30M right now?

dongonzalos · Oct 5, 2014

torchomatic said:
Maybe we don't have £30M right now?

I don't think the wasps consortium have it right now either.
I believe the deal will be done through financing the loan over a period of time etc.

If we can raise the finance to build the new stadium, we can raise the finance to do a deal that clearly can work.

ccfc92 · Oct 5, 2014

torchomatic said:
Maybe we don't have £30M right now?

mortgage/finance?

£30 million over x amount of years etc...

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 5, 2014

dongonzalos said:
A consortium with a sports team that currently attracts 7000 fans. Has looked at a deal that would involve buying 90% of ACL. They have looked at this deal and concluded that they can make money out if it.

There are of course other questions to ask about that.

Much as they were of SISU, in fact...

stupot07 · Oct 5, 2014

dongonzalos said:
I don't think the wasps consortium have it right now either.
I believe the deal will be done through financing the loan over a period of time etc.

If we can raise the finance to build the new stadium, we can raise the finance to do a deal that clearly can work.

Doesn't due diligence go both ways? Do you think it would be wise of Higgs and the council to sell their shares to someone who hasn't got the cash?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

dongonzalos · Oct 5, 2014

The worrying conclusion I am coming to is.
They can't afford to build a new stadium.
They also can't afford to buy ACL at its true value. Hence the attempt to devalue it.
Which then leads to the question what next?
Sell CCFC or agree a long term rent deal with the new owners of ACL.

dongonzalos · Oct 5, 2014

stupot07 said:
Doesn't due diligence go both ways? Do you think it would be wise of Higgs and the council to sell their shares to someone who hasn't got the cash?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

I didn't mean that I meant the consortium inherit the debts.

ccfc92 · Oct 5, 2014

Scunthorpe United

The Club have moved a big step closer to making their proposed new stadium a reality. This comes from the announcement that they have signed contracts with the Lucent Group, to build the new stadium on land owned by the Group as part of a wider Lincolnshire Lakes residential development. The new stadium has a proposed capacity of 12,000 and will cost in the region of £18m to build. The site of the new stadium is just a couple of miles away from Glanford Park further along the M181 (towards the M180). An application for planning permission will shortly be sought. If things go to plan, then Scunthorpe could be playing at their new home sometime during the 2015/16 season.

So we are looking at £20-25 million for our 15K stadium with "superior corporate facilities". Or we could buy the Ricoh for £5-10 million more. Hmmm.... :thinking about:

Coventry City
The Club have announced that they are close to securing a site for a new stadium to be built near Coventry. Although they have not announced where it will be, it is believed to be the former site of Hawkesbury Golf Course near Bayton Road in Exhall, which falls under the area of Nuneaton and Bedworth Borough Council. This site is close to Junction 3 of the M6 and ironically is only a five minute drive away from the Ricoh Arena. However, whether this will ever materialise remains to be seen. 20.01.14

Source: http://www.footballgroundguide.com/developments.htm

torchomatic · Oct 5, 2014

True, so what is the reason why they aren't pursuing that?

And, at the same time, people want the ticket prices reduced and for us to spend money on players.

ccfc92 said:
mortgage/finance?

£30 million over x amount of years etc...

torchomatic · Oct 5, 2014

Won't be "ours", never will.

ccfc92 said:
So we are looking at £20-25 million for our 15K stadium with "superior corporate facilities". Or we could buy the Ricoh for £5-10 million more. Hmmm.... :thinking about:

ccfc92 · Oct 5, 2014

torchomatic said:
Won't be "ours", never will.

Do you mean the proposed stadium?

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 5, 2014

Another question to ask is... if the council are so keen to snap Wasps' hand off for any deal, despite the inevitable controversy, have they been made a ridiculous offer that vastly overvalues the Ricoh?

dongonzalos · Oct 5, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
Another question to ask is... if the council are so keen to snap Wasps' hand off for any deal, despite the inevitable controversy, have they been made a ridiculous offer that vastly overvalues the Ricoh?

They are coming in a price around the proposed price in a prospectus

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 5, 2014

dongonzalos said:
They are coming in a price around the proposed price in a prospectus

...and that stops it being overvalued?

The difficulty in raising the money suggests it's not as clear-cut a wonderful deal as some would have us believe...

torchomatic · Oct 5, 2014

No, the Ricoh. You said pay an extra £5-£10M to buy the Ricoh but it would never be ours, the Council will always be there in the background. However unlikely it is that SISU will build a new stadium at least it would be ours...not ours as HR was, but at least something the Club would have control over. It would also be part of any future sale to new owners presumably. And those "whoever" new owners would have to only deal with the Club rather than separate entities.

ccfc92 said:
Do you mean the proposed stadium?

Rusty Trombone · Oct 5, 2014

There's no way £30m will be changing hands in respect of this deal. I would guess the real cash involved would be less than £10m.

ccfc92 · Oct 5, 2014

torchomatic said:
No, the Ricoh. You said pay an extra £5-£10M to buy the Ricoh but it would never be ours, the Council will always be there in the background. However unlikely it is that SISU will build a new stadium at least it would be ours...not ours as HR was, but at least something the Club would have control over. It would also be part of any future sale to new owners presumably. And those "whoever" new owners would have to only deal with the Club rather than separate entities.

I see your point. But would a stadium outside of Coventry, be fruitful? People moan already that the Rioch is too far. So is moving even further a good, profitable move?

torchomatic · Oct 5, 2014

But it might NOT be outside the City. Before the Wasps stuff then there was a good chance it would be as I would imagine CCC would want to throw a spanner in the works, but..and this is obviously all guesswork...now that ACL/CCC have really instigated another franchise moving into the Ricoh then they would be pretty unpopular if they did try and block a new stadium somewhere within the City...while acknowledging that the prospect is pretty slim.

ccfc92 said:
I see your point. But would a stadium outside of Coventry, be fruitful? People moan already that the Rioch is too far. So is moving even further a good, profitable move?

skybluetony176 · Oct 5, 2014

torchomatic said:
Maybe we don't have £30M right now?

If the deal includes the lease extended to 99 years as is being said how difficult would it be to mortgage that? Besides it was pointed out on another thread that it doesn't mean £30m is being handed over in cash (so to speak) it's that the deal is worth upto £30m so we don't even need a £30m mortgage.

sky blue john · Oct 5, 2014

torchomatic said:
Maybe we don't have £30M right now?

How about the money that Sisu proved to the football league that was available for the new stadium ?

Grendel · Oct 5, 2014

sky blue john said:
How about the money that Sisu proved to the football league that was available for the new stadium ?

More loans and debt then? Nice one.

sky blue john · Oct 5, 2014

Grendel said:
More loans and debt then? Nice one.

Lol !!
First time you have been bothered about debt and sustainability !

ccfc92 · Oct 5, 2014

Grendel said:
More loans and debt then? Nice one.

Are SISU giving us this new stadium then? Or will we have to pay SISU back?

skybluetony176 · Oct 5, 2014

Grendel said:
More loans and debt then? Nice one.

So you're saying renting is our only option then.

mds · Oct 5, 2014

If they pushed for it couldnt Sisu have it for around £20m, they get the Higgs share for around 5m and 15m to the council, i know thats a simple breakdown based on Higgs & CCC with 50% each, if they really wanted to they could still buy the Higgs half at decent knockdown going on that price.

Who cares more important things in life!

Chipfat · Oct 5, 2014

Sisu made the decision on day 1 that owning the stadium was a secondary option to gaining promotion, so using money on the squad and staff was where the money went. This was to gain promotion into the prem and sell the club or buy the Ricoh and then sell both for massive profit.. Now not at anytime did they stop to think to talk about the rent or think that if promotion is not gained how do they fund the club.. Sisu never wanted a long term investment they wanted in and out,, now they can't move in any direction that will enable them to gain monies back, greed got in the way of everything...

Now they have nothing, they have no support, no desire to fight wasps and the mass do not believe any of them included the new god SW,, i have left the UK now and although im proud to be from the city the club i loved for 40 years is on the edge.. I feel sorry for the fans i feel sorry for the younger generation that are missing the things i took for granted,, standing in the kop on my box with my dad win,lose or draw it didn't matter.. I knew i would be back in weeks to be lifted high by my dad when wallace or Fergie rattled one in..

Sad that wasps are planning this and even worse that the CCC are seriously considering this but they were open enough to say they would listen to any serious offers and with Sisu lack of money and many burnt bridges what really was the realistic outcome... Sisu have made a mess make no mistake about it, the club has suffered and continually does under the control of people who do not know what to do with...

Grendel · Oct 5, 2014

mds said:
If they pushed for it couldnt Sisu have it for around £20m, they get the Higgs share for around 5m and 15m to the council, i know thats a simple breakdown based on Higgs & CCC with 50% each, if they really wanted to they could still buy the Higgs half at decent knockdown going on that price.

Who cares more important things in life!

The wasps deal is aost certainly a lot less than that.

RoboCCFC90 · Oct 5, 2014

dongonzalos said:
A consortium with a sports team that currently attracts 7000 fans. Has looked at a deal that would involve buying 90% of ACL. They have looked at this deal and concluded that they can make money out if it.

SISU have looked at buying ACL and concluded that it can't work. Their current plan is to build a new stadium. This will cost at least 30 million.

When people are saying the SBT should be doing something. I agree councillors, the CET, CWR, the SBT, Rob and Michael's people should all be asking the obvious........

Why are the club not counter bidding so we have a stadium in Coventry and a financially secure future?

You have answered your own question Dong:

dongonzalos said:
90% of ACL.

Some will say "90% of something is better than 100% of nothing" nevertheless it doesn't change the fact that the Club is not the sole controller of the Ricoh, I think if 100% was available things might be different.

skybluetony176 · Oct 5, 2014

Grendel said:
The wasps deal is aost certainly a lot less than that.

You have to say, the people who have negotiated the Wasps deal have made it look very easy. Can you think of a reason why SISU have failed to get a simular deal done?

ccfc92 · Oct 5, 2014

skybluetony176 said:
You have to say, the people who have negotiated the Wasps deal have made it look very easy. Can you think of a reason why SISU have failed to get a simular deal done?

They've offered money, not "give it to us or we'll sue you".

torchomatic · Oct 5, 2014

But I would imagine this has taken a good few months to organise so probably not that easy. Also, you have to consider the consequences of what Wasps, ACL and CCC are actually doing. Maybe it is as easy as you say, but really, it shouldn't be.

skybluetony176 said:
You have to say, the people who have negotiated the Wasps deal have made it look very easy. Can you think of a reason why SISU have failed to get a simular deal done?

RoboCCFC90 · Oct 5, 2014

torchomatic said:
But I would imagine this has taken a good few months to organise so probably not that easy. Also, you have to consider the consequences of what Wasps, ACL and CCC are actually doing. Maybe it is as easy as you say, but really, it shouldn't be.

"Maybe it is as easy as you say....." So far perhaps? Lets be honest though this deal will all go down to the RFU, with the opposition to this move I am not sure they'll simply allow it, the deal isn't done yet and it won't have been easy should it all go through.

skybluetony176 · Oct 5, 2014

torchomatic said:
But I would imagine this has taken a good few months to organise so probably not that easy. Also, you have to consider the consequences of what Wasps, ACL and CCC are actually doing. Maybe it is as easy as you say, but really, it shouldn't be.

Still easier than the SISU way. How long have SISU been playing at it now? Have they got anywhere as near as this crowd? I don't recall the council presiding over any SISU deal, do you?

When you consider all the lost revenues from the suxfields move and all the legal bills they probably could have put that money to doing a deal like this and the club would have passed the bottom of the cycle and be moving up.

Like I said. They've made it look very easy.

Grendel · Oct 5, 2014

skybluetony176 said:
You have to say, the people who have negotiated the Wasps deal have made it look very easy. Can you think of a reason why SISU have failed to get a simular deal done?

I wouldn't know how is it has been? Could have been negotiating for 6 to 12 months for all I know - how easy has it been?

Also we don't know the actual payment and how long the payment is spread over. Could be 20 years for all we know.

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