The double bind (1 Viewer)

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 27, 2014

So... let's start this off. As things stand, I don't want SISU/CCFC to get a share of ACL.

Surprising? Maybe, but this is as much to do with what I personally can live with, as anything else.

Notwithstanding the concerns about SISU (see previous arguments ad infinitum)

If the club shared ownership of ACL with Wasps, then the only way for the deal to work would be for CCFC to work to integrate a sporting franchise into the Coventry community. This, I can't countenance. This is not sport to me, and if the football club ends up working to make Wasps' position in the city solid, this is impossible for me to reconcile. This is wrong... and that's no matter who does that. At the moment it's CCC and Higgs who are attempting to import a sports franchise. If CCFC own 50% of ACL they join that list in an unholy combination. The club then will find themselves working against sport and not just as a one-off deal, but 365 days a year.

And the horror of this deal is that yes, I'm aware of the alternatives of the club not owning 50%. It either condemns itself to junior partner, with a landlord attempting to make profit out of the club (and thus stymying the club to a certain degree) or... it builds a new stadium.

New stadium I could handle... if built for sporting reasons, and not in Cubbington etc. etc.

So where does that leave me? I can not support the club owning part of ACL, but neither can I support them not owning it. What choice have I been left with, that allows me to move forward and keep my own allegiance to the shirt?

dongonzalos · Oct 27, 2014

If CCFC had succeeded in putting ACL out of business and picking it up for nothing would you have continued to attend matches at the Ricoh?

dongonzalos · Oct 27, 2014

Did you carry on going when the club signed Marlon King?

dongonzalos · Oct 27, 2014

Have you ever gone to a Cov blaze match?

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 27, 2014

dongonzalos said:
Did you carry on going when the club signed Marlon King?

No I didn't, actually.

Fuck me, you've asked loads of questions. Couldn't you have put them in one post?

dongonzalos · Oct 27, 2014

Would you ever go to an NFL match at Wembley?
That is one match that deprived the majority of the american supporters of both teams from attending.

Macca · Oct 27, 2014

I'm glad my life isn't so complicated

dongonzalos · Oct 27, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
No I didn't, actually.

Fair play on that one. I am not having a go by the way but I don't think this wasps thing is as bad as some make out. I think about 1000 wasps fans was it, signed a petition.
Cov rugby club hardly kicked up a stink.
A banner at their match when they found out about the proposal was a big as the protest got. (Wasps)
It is down to the governing body of rugby to manage franchising in their sport.
The job of Coventry council is safeguarding jobs protecting a council owned stadium and bring money and regeneration into the city.
People have backed the NFL thing saying well franchise happens in America (doesnt make it right) From what I can see so far rugby fans seems pretty happy to go anywhere for top level rugby.
I wouldn't make yourself the moral bastion of a protest over what happened to wasps when their own fans don't seem that bothered. Plus fans of other clubs that live within our region are likely to attend.

dongonzalos · Oct 27, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
No I didn't, actually.

Fuck me, you've asked loads of questions. Couldn't you have put them in one post?

Typed them as I thought them sorry

dongonzalos · Oct 27, 2014

I would have struggled with it if the owners of CCFC had put a business out of business that was half owned by a 'children's' charity ( yes that old chestnut) and Coventry City Council.
That to me is a proper moral issue not moving a rugby club.

wingy · Oct 27, 2014

When In Doubt ,Five Six about.

Otis · Oct 27, 2014

I want my football club to have at least a share in the stadium. If that means having to work with Wasps, then so be it.

We don't want Wasps here and I'm sure Sisu didn't want them here in the Ricoh either, but here they are. We can't do anything to change that. As most of us are football fans rather than both football and rugby fans, it not even as if we can boycott games anyway. Can't boycott something we wouldn't go to.

Fair play to you NW, if that's the way you feel, but we are now stuck with what we've got and if we have to work with Wasps to get a share of the Ricoh I will take that any day of the week.

To me the horse has already bolted and I personally could not stop watching a Coventry City team because it was playing in its own city in a stadium it half owns. That's what we've all bee wanting to happen for years and years and it would defeat the object for me, that of not supporting my team playing in our city in their own stadium.

hill83 · Oct 27, 2014

Do you like baked beans?

Otis · Oct 27, 2014

hill83 said:
Do you like baked beans?

Me, or NW?

I love em!

mds · Oct 27, 2014

Dont really give a shit who our club owner is, but the club should own at least half of the ground/ACL whichever whatever.
Just a shame it took the Waps to come here for it to look like we may own a little.

dongonzalos · Oct 27, 2014

hill83 said:
Do you like baked beans?

Has to be hienz. I can taste the difference anything else is just wrong

Grendel · Oct 27, 2014

dongonzalos said:
If CCFC had succeeded in putting ACL out of business and picking it up for nothing would you have continued to attend matches at the Ricoh?

I would have applauded them. Sisu couldn't even do that properly. About as ruthless as a paper bag attacking an iron block.

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 27, 2014

Otis said:
To me the horse has already bolted and I personally could not stop watching a Coventry City team because it was playing in its own city in a stadium it half owns. That's what we've all bee wanting to happen for years and years and it would defeat the object for me, that of not supporting my team playing in our city in their own stadium.

Everybiody has their stopping points though, where the cause does not justify the means. To many, moving the club to Northampton was too much in that respect, even though it was an attempt to create conditions for what you say you want to see.

To me, working with a franchise operation is too much. Sport sold its soul long ago; SISU's very existence at our club is a sign of that as it is, that in itself is disasteful in the extreme.

(As, indeed, for that matter is the desire to use a sports team as a battering ram for urban regeneration projects)

Throw in a franchise operation and the desire to batter down opposition to that commercially and... it's hard to accept.

It's the fact I want it to be simple, team plays and team wins or loses, that means I struggle to accept such things, as they tend to store up trouble further down the line.

If only fans could be territorial on match days but work as a stronger collective across clubs the rest of the time, football could be in a better shape...

Otis · Oct 27, 2014

mds said:
Dont really give a shit who our club owner is, but the club should own at least half of the ground/ACL whichever whatever.
Just a shame it took the Waps to come here for it to look like we may own a little.

I should report this post for racism.

Otis · Oct 27, 2014

dongonzalos said:
Has to be hienz. I can taste the difference anything else is just wrong

I'm the opposite.

The only baked beans I don't like are Heinz.

mds · Oct 27, 2014

Otis said:
I should report this post for racism.

Fuck Off!!!!!

Edit - dont know how may times i looked at it and missed it

I`ll stick with my first answer.

cloughie · Oct 27, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
So... let's start this off. As things stand, I don't want SISU/CCFC to get a share of ACL.

Surprising? Maybe, but this is as much to do with what I personally can live with, as anything else.

Notwithstanding the concerns about SISU (see previous arguments ad infinitum)

If the club shared ownership of ACL with Wasps, then the only way for the deal to work would be for CCFC to work to integrate a sporting franchise into the Coventry community. This, I can't countenance. This is not sport to me, and if the football club ends up working to make Wasps' position in the city solid, this is impossible for me to reconcile. This is wrong... and that's no matter who does that. At the moment it's CCC and Higgs who are attempting to import a sports franchise. If CCFC own 50% of ACL they join that list in an unholy combination. The club then will find themselves working against sport and not just as a one-off deal, but 365 days a year.

And the horror of this deal is that yes, I'm aware of the alternatives of the club not owning 50%. It either condemns itself to junior partner, with a landlord attempting to make profit out of the club (and thus stymying the club to a certain degree) or... it builds a new stadium.

New stadium I could handle... if built for sporting reasons, and not in Cubbington etc. etc.

So where does that leave me? I can not support the club owning part of ACL, but neither can I support them not owning it. What choice have I been left with, that allows me to move forward and keep my own allegiance to the shirt?

If wasps buy CCFC eventually what will your stance be then ?

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 27, 2014

cloughie said:
If wasps buy CCFC eventually what will your stance be then ?

I'll stop supporting CCFC and leave this board.

Unlike others however, I won't hang around for an eternity saying how I'm leaving, I'll just do it.

stupot07 · Oct 27, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
I'll stop supporting CCFC and leave this board.

Unlike others however, I won't hang around for an eternity saying how I'm leaving, I'll just do it.

Wasps won't buy ccfc

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 27, 2014

stupot07 said:
Wasps won't buy ccfc

And if they don't, it won't be that particular hypothetical scenario which has me bog off.

Grendel · Oct 27, 2014

cloughie said:
If wasps buy CCFC eventually what will your stance be then ?

They won't and if they did if walk away as I have moral standards.

cloughie · Oct 27, 2014

Seems to me that you are determined to put yourself in a position of leaving then as unless someone comes in and buys CCFC and buys out wasps ownership then you will be gone. principled fair enough but you stayed when a LONDON hedgefund bought us

mds · Oct 27, 2014

Grendel said:
They won't and if they did if walk away as I have moral standards.

Walk away from the club you love or fuck it its just another year at Sixfields. Once the initial anger and noise has died down it would be accepted, the game goes on regardless of owner.

Grendel · Oct 27, 2014

cloughie said:
Seems to me that you are determined to put yourself in a position of leaving then as unless someone comes in and buys CCFC and buys out wasps ownership then you will be gone. principled fair enough but you stayed when a LONDON hedgefund bought us

So you protested when we were owned by a South African?

Keep digging.

cloughie · Oct 27, 2014

Grendel said:
So you protested when we were owned by a South African?

Keep digging.

and who is that?

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 27, 2014

cloughie said:
Seems to me that you are determined to put yourself in a position of leaving then as unless someone comes in and buys CCFC and buys out wasps ownership then you will be gone. principled fair enough but you stayed when a LONDON hedgefund bought us

tbh, when a hedge fund bought us, those who were on GMK will remember I was one of the few voices against them,. Offered plenty of evidence too... but the great God of consumerism won out.

So... I stayed, but found myself ever more slightly detached. I went to less games, I made sure good old Ruthless Ray and his cohorts were called for ludicrous statements such as the club being debt free (one of the many bouts of verbal trickery for which the club has been known - neither true, nor untrue) as nobody else would do it.

Then they signed Marlon and that was too much - not that they'd signed him, but the unseemly haste to sign him and fellate his ego... because he was cheap. Money won out again.

So I stopped going, stopped posting on message boards too because I couldn't be bothered with the shit off some (where were their morals then eh). Felt called back because the club ended up on the verge of dying, its spark flickered but dimly and driven by fear it sparked me into life again.

If we're doing dick waving, I've been fairly honourable and backed up my own views with actions - not as much as some, but more than others. Then again, it's only the twats who bring morals into it who deserve being called on that. For most, everyone has their limits at some level, and for most those limits will be different. When it comes to it, to support a sports team or not, to engage in a leisure activity is not a 'moral' decision... but if it becomes an act of consumption and emotions become commodified 100% then... I'm out.

My limit is when I see no way out of the club being used for a profit motive. Sharing with a franchise side and, indeed, supporting said franchise side in its growth is when my own hope gets extinguished.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Oct 27, 2014

Grendel said:
So you protested when we were owned by a South African?

Keep digging.

No but I protested when that South African shut down Standard Triumph and kept Longbridge open.

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 27, 2014

mds said:
the game goes on regardless of owner.

It does, although we've seen the steady dislocation over the years.

MichaelCCFC · Oct 27, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
And if they don't, it won't be that particular hypothetical scenario which has me bog off.

Over thinking things perhaps? For me it's pretty simple - I'll keep supporting Cov RFC as I've always done; I completely oppose Wasps moving to the Ricoh and will have nothing to do with that; I'll keep supporting CCFC as I've always done (even if it was only away games last season); I'll keep hoping there is a real campaign for supporter led ownership to rid us of all the leeches who don't care about CCFC and are concerned only with their own financial gain. But whether leeches means Bryan Richardson and co, sisu or wasps, I'm not letting them stop me enjoying afternoons like Saturday cos that's my team.

cloughie · Oct 27, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
tbh, when a hedge fund bought us, those who were on GMK will remember I was one of the few voices against them,. Offered plenty of evidence too... but the great God of consumerism won out.

So... I stayed, but found myself ever more slightly detached. I went to less games, I made sure good old Ruthless Ray and his cohorts were called for ludicrous statements such as the club being debt free (one of the many bouts of verbal trickery for which the club has been known - neither true, nor untrue) as nobody else would do it.

Then they signed Marlon and that was too much - not that they'd signed him, but the unseemly haste to sign him and fellate his ego... because he was cheap. Money won out again.

So I stopped going, stopped posting on message boards too because I couldn't be bothered with the shit off some (where were their morals then eh). Felt called back because the club ended up on the verge of dying, its spark flickered but dimly and driven by fear it sparked me into life again.

If we're doing dick waving, I've been fairly honourable and backed up my own views with actions - not as much as some, but more than others. Then again, it's only the twats who bring morals into it who deserve being called on that. For most, everyone has their limits at some level, and for most those limits will be different. When it comes to it, to support a sports team or not, to engage in a leisure activity is not a 'moral' decision... but if it becomes an act of consumption and emotions become commodified 100% then... I'm out.

My limit is when I see no way out of the club being used for a profit motive. Sharing with a franchise side and, indeed, supporting said franchise side in its growth is when my own hope gets extinguished.

wasn't trying to call you out in any way other than saying we have always been owned by someone and they have had a benefit financially from owning the club

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