The Fee, the stats, the delusion (1 Viewer)

[ms639]

I don't know which is less surprising, the news that Madders has gone or the inevitable delusion of many posters on here. Lets for now take 3 mill as the figure, what is the uproar about?! The figure of 7 million, wherever it was plucked from, was always obscene and was a massive overvaluation of a player with very little experience in the third tier of English Football. Let's look at the stats.

Career total games: 31 Total career starts: 8 Goals: 4

In what world do these statistics, this experience and his performances this season warrant anywhere near 7 million. The lad is young yes, has flare yes and has scored a couple of good goals. He is however: lightweight, easily bullied, goes missing when the team aren't performing and most importantly still completely unproven. The comparison between him and Dele Alli being thrown around is ludicrous. Alli was far more proven at this level when being sold to Spurs and not for a huge amount more.

Is he as good as Dele Alli when he left MK Dons? NO. is he as experienced NO. (Fee £5 mill)

Alli stats (season prior to sale to Tottenham)

League games: 39 Goals: 16

People have to face up to reality, we are currently a side in the third tier of English Football, if a player wants to further his career and we can utilise the cash to strengthen in a couple of positions we should. If we do not go up this season with the squad we have then I fear we are destined to a few years in league 1. JM is not a big enough player for us, he would not have single handedly dragged us out of this league, we have brought in 2 highly rated defenders, an area where we most need to strengthen. In the last few weeks we have gone on a horrible run and hat's not due to the player we have in the number 10 role it has been due to our defensive frailties. If the fee for maddison means we can avoid having Haynes, Ramage and Phillips in the team then as far as i'm concerned it's sensible business based on necessity and not 'he's one of our own so he's worth 7 mill'

 

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[bradwellskyblues]

many valid points ,however the fact its norwich and not a "big Club" does upset people

 

[clint van damme]

many valid points ,however the fact its norwich and not a "big Club" does upset people

they're currently a lot bigger than us.

 

[jabharty]

The frustration is at the timing. We got the money with seconds to go in the window, so the fee doesn't mean we can avoid having those defenders you mentioned.
He undoubtedly would have been worth more in the summer, and we've sold him at the first opportunity.
A large fee was touted because of potential, and was touted after a premier league scout gave his valuation. Example being that Anthony Martial's performances in France didn't merit a £40m fee, but his potential arguably did.

 

[matesx]

a clear outbreak of common sense from the OP

 

[Nick]

The frustration is at the timing. We got the money with seconds to go in the window, so the fee doesn't mean we can avoid having those defenders you mentioned.
He undoubtedly would have been worth more in the summer, and we've sold him at the first opportunity.
A large fee was touted because of potential, and was touted after a premier league scout gave his valuation. Example being that Anthony Martial's performances in France didn't merit a £40m fee, but his potential arguably did.

So surely Spurs for example would have bought him for £4 million?

 

[torchomatic]

Other papers have said the fee is 3m or 3.5m. People are just jumping on the two million figure and it helps fuel their outrage. personally anything over two million is good business for a kid with a handful of appearances to his name. And we still have him for the remainder of the season. Another reason to be pissed off for some.

 

[ms639]

many valid points ,however the fact its norwich and not a "big Club" does upset people

They aren't I agree, but they are side currently in the premier league, a sid who have showed real ambition in this transfer window to remain a premier league club.

We however are a side in real danger of slipping away from the promotion chase, we have the best squad in the division (arguably) we simply have to go up this season, if we don't TM has done enough to be poached by someone in the championship next year and will go. We have strengthened in the area we most need to strengthen and ultimately are doing what we need to do to be in with a shout at the end of the season

 

[Brylowes]

they're currently a lot bigger than us.

That also upsets people

 

[ClarkeZ]

Good points all round. Sense is working its way into the group I see!

To counter those who say he should be sold for more at the end of the season, who says he would go for more?
If he continues on this vein of form, ends the season with say 45 total games, 20 starts, 6 or 7 goals. All that would do is prove he's struggling to impact games. The flair is great but its no guarantee he will be a big enough impact. And just maybe the bigger clubs would spot that and decide his potential might not be big enough and we end up only getting £1 or 2mil.

 

[standupforcity]

many valid points ,however the fact its norwich and not a "big Club" does upset people

How big should the club be for Maddison..? The guy is at the very start of his career and in my opinion has done the right thing. He has less chance of sitting on the bench at Norwich than the bigger club some think he deserves!

 

[idm1975]

Good points all round. Sense is working its way into the group I see!

To counter those who say he should be sold for more at the end of the season, who says he would go for more?
If he continues on this vein of form, ends the season with say 45 total games, 20 starts, 6 or 7 goals. All that would do is prove he's struggling to impact games. The flair is great but its no guarantee he will be a big enough impact. And just maybe the bigger clubs would spot that and decide his potential might not be big enough and we end up only getting £1 or 2mil.

And if he didnt continue in this vein of form and just got better and better and got us promoted....how much then and would we need to sell?

 

[Brylowes]

They aren't I agree, but they are side currently in the premier league, a sid who have showed real ambition in this transfer window to remain a premier league club.

We however are a side in real danger of slipping away from the promotion chase, we have the best squad in the division (arguably) we simply have to go up this season, if we don't TM has done enough to be poached by someone in the championship next year and will go. We have strengthened in the area we most need to strengthen and ultimately are doing what we need to do to be in with a shout at the end of the season

Ah I get it.so what we need to do to give ourselves the best chance of going up at the end of the season is,sell our best players

 

[Nick]

Ah I get it.so what we need to do to give ourselves the best chance of going up at the end of the season is,sell our best players

He is still here until the end of the season though isn't he?

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

The real KEY POINT for this deal is the sell-on clause......It better be a generous cut.....I would hope at least 15%....in an ideal world, 20%.

If "Madderz" goes on to fulfil his potential, he won't be ar Norwich for long......so we could potentially make more from the sell on than from the initial fee.

Example: John Stones only sold for £3m....but its been widely reported that Barnsley have a 20% clause......so when Everton cash in for £35-40m....Barnsley win the lotto.

 

[Hobo]

many valid points ,however the fact its norwich and not a "big Club" does upset people

Why?
Madison will develop better at Norwich and more quickly. He will get game time and if he is as good as people reckon will be sold by them and trigger a sell on clause.

Alternatively go to Tottenham and disappear.

 

[Nick]

Why?
Madison will develop better at Norwich and more quickly. He will get game time and if he is as good as people reckon will be sold by them and trigger a sell on clause.

Alternatively go to Tottenham and disappear.

Exactly, do a Scott Sinclair to Man City.

 

[ms639]

Ah I get it.so what we need to do to give ourselves the best chance of going up at the end of the season is,sell our best players

My post clearly says that unless we go up this season we will struggle to go up in the next few IMO. We have Maddison back on loan for the season so technically even if you do believe he is one of our best players we still have him? :facepalm:

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

He has made a good move, Norwich are a good club who will develop him and he won't be miles away from the first team and for him its not the bright lights of London and the pressures that brings. His value is all based on potential if we have got around the £2 million down and them some achievable add ons it seems ok, would just be nice to hear what the club got

 

[ms639]

He is still here until the end of the season though isn't he?

He just decided to overlook that because he's just bought his son a Maddison shirt and he's the future of english football....

 

[4waspsting]

could'nt of explained it better myself, a round of applause to you, hope everyone listens.

 

[Rodders1]

2-3 mil sounds about right.

Leicester bought Damarai Gray for £4m I think. Sam Byron to West Ham £3m both olayed more games at a higher level. Both talented. So with contracts being shorter I think we've just about got the correct fee for him.

It hurts but teams like Norwich, Leicester Southampton are obviously not our peers anymore.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

One of the most common sense threads I have read on here for many, many months.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

many valid points ,however the fact its norwich and not a "big Club" does upset people

Lol! Norwich are arguably a bigger club than us. They've played European football in the past 20 years, are in the PL, have about 25,000 season ticket holders (yes, I know there's not much competition in the area other than Ipswich) and have an exciting young manager at the helm.

 

[Covstu]

I think my only concern is where does this all take us next year, we lose 6 players out of our 1st team which promotion or not leaves us very vulnerable. Maddison was an inevitable loss albeit I was not overly convinced he was the messiah but we again lack any continuity in the squad. It seems like every year we gut the squad in the hope we will get it right so I would like to see a longer term plan but maybe that's unrealistic!

 

[torchomatic]

Know what you mean but a year ago none of us had heard of Armstrong or Murphy et al. Anderson said the money was for next season too, so I'm not too depressed about this at all.

I think my only concern is where does this all take us next year, we lose 6 players out of our 1st team which promotion or not leaves us very vulnerable. Maddison was an inevitable loss albeit I was not overly convinced he was the messiah but we again lack any continuity in the squad. It seems like every year we gut the squad in the hope we will get it right so I would like to see a longer term plan but maybe that's unrealistic!

 

[shy_tall_knight]

There is no long term plan with SISU, we've lways sold our players but previously we used some of the csh to enhance the squad, Phil Babb's sale funded Dion and a few others. Callum Wilson's sale funded no new players and doubt TM will see any of this money, like the Cyrus / Ben Turner money before, its all short-term funding. 2 unproven defenders is hardly getting me excited, purchasing a striker might have done that.

If we don't get promoted TM will have another job on his hands to rebuild a squad on short term deals loans etc..

 

[torchomatic]

So none of these players get paid then?

There is no long term plan with SISU, we've lways sold our players but previously we used some of the csh to enhance the squad, Phil Babb's sale funded Dion and a few others. Callum Wilson's sale funded no new players and doubt TM will see any of this money, like the Cyrus / Ben Turner money before, its all short-term funding. 2 unproven defenders is hardly getting me excited, purchasing a striker might have done that.

If we don't get promoted TM will have another job on his hands to rebuild a squad on short term deals loans etc..

 

[Covstu]

Know what you mean but a year ago none of us had heard of Armstrong or Murphy et al. Anderson said the money was for next season too, so I'm not too depressed about this at all.

No your right but its times like this where it can be make or break, get promoted and hopefully we can build on the momentum and add key players on a perm deal. Don't get promoted then god knows where it takes us.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

So none of these players get paid then?

Didn't know that all the players salaries came out of transfer fees,thanks Torch

 

[Nick]

Didn't know that all the players salaries came out of transfer fees,thanks Torch

Surely it is classed as a running cost?

 

[Captain Dart]

a clear outbreak of common sense from the OP

Stop this now!

 

[hill83]

Surely it is classed as a running cost?

Of course not. It's actual pieces of gold labelled 'For transfers only matey' and is stored in an actual warchest buried under the penalty spot.

 

[dadgad]

One interesting stat from this Transfer Window: Norwich have spent £24.35 Million....

 

[smileycov]

The frustration is at the timing. We got the money with seconds to go in the window, so the fee doesn't mean we can avoid having those defenders you mentioned.
He undoubtedly would have been worth more in the summer, and we've sold him at the first opportunity.
A large fee was touted because of potential, and was touted after a premier league scout gave his valuation. Example being that Anthony Martial's performances in France didn't merit a £40m fee, but his potential arguably did.

Didnt TM say that he was not panicking about the transfer window? He is looking at the loan or free option. I think he will make his move within 2 weeks. The fact he is staying for this season is great news. A striker on board and i feel we are in a great position to try and push on.