The Football League Golden Share (4 Viewers)

Snozz_is_god · Mar 24, 2013

As at June, 2012 CCFC Ltd owned the Players Registrations, the lease to the Ricoh and the Football League Golden share (the right to play football, in essence the club).

By last Thursday according to the club website CCFC (Holdings) Ltd must of owned the Players Registrations & the Football League Golden Share as the only thing CCFC Ltd owned was the lease to the Ricoh.

So it appears the Players Registrations & Football League Golden Share have been switched to CCFC (Holdings) Ltd.

To me this is obvious why this was done, basically so CCFC Ltd could be put into administration, wiping out the 1.3m debt it owed to ACL, without affecting the running of the football club. Whether this is a legal or a normal business thing to do I have no idea, but it certainly sounds sneaky to say the least.

So at what point was the Players Registrations & Football League Golden Share switched? I would suggest fairly recently when ACL placed a debt order and effectively froze CCFC Ltd bank accounts back in February.

In order to do this, they must of had permission from the Football League. So have the Football League been negligent or even worse complicit, because they must of been aware of why SISU were doing it.

If this is the case, then the ramifications could be far reaching not only for CCFC but for the football league.

These are just my opinions and thoughts.

Grendel · Mar 24, 2013

How do we know they agreed to it?

Snozz_is_god · Mar 24, 2013

Grendel said:
How do we know they agreed to it?

Well that certainly is a question, if the FL didn't agree to it, then SISU are stuffed.

Steve.B50 · Mar 24, 2013

Your thoughts are very valid Snozz.
I cannot believe SISU would be silly enough to transfer an asset to another company then place the first one in Admin soon after without checking first

DazzleTommyDazzle · Mar 24, 2013

A statement from the Administrator just said that the holding company have "asserted a claim" on the "Football League Golden share".

My interpretation of that is that it probably still formally resides in CCFC Ltd (the company that has just been put into administration) as if it was in the holding company - and this was agreed and accepted by the Football League - there would seem no need to "assert a claim".

Black6Osprey · Mar 24, 2013

If the FL agreed to this then it becomes very complicated. If they didn't we are going to get a heavier than normal pts deduction.

I don't think SISU understand that the FL will change the rules as they see fit. Loop holes don't exist for long and if they are abused they tend to kick the crap out of the offenders.

wingy · Mar 24, 2013

Steve.B50 said:
Your thoughts are very valid Snozz.
I cannot believe SISU would be silly enough to transfer an asset to another company then place the first one in Admin soon after without checking first

According to one "Appleton" statement yesterday this switch had not been achieved as of Thursday ,but that the legal team were actively trying to move it over .Now forgive me but have they been lying again ,telling the court that the switch over was done ,thus stopping ACL'scase on Friday morning .

More interestingly have they exposed themselves to losing this Share through admin,as surely someone could now bid to take this Share as Jack Griffin posted yesterday.,and should it not be impossible to move it over again as a result of this Admin.

Snozz_is_god · Mar 24, 2013

DazzleTommyDazzle said:
A statement from the Administrator just said that the holding company have "asserted a claim" on the "Football League Golden share".

My interpretation of that is that it probably still formally resides in CCFC Ltd (the company that has just been put into administration) as if it was in the holding company - and this was agreed and accepted by the Football League - there would seem no need to "assert a claim".

Oh well that complicates things even more. I would suggest if this is the case, then ACL may well win their case in the high court 'eventually' after lots of legal wrangling. CCFC will be deducted 10 point this season for sure. But this will get messy.

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 24, 2013

If it wasn't switched at the time administration was declared then it's game over as far as the points go. Bravo Tim, bravo.

Steve.B50 · Mar 24, 2013

My concern is that SISU will not just take this without any fight, they are ruthless people who do not care about us.

Snozz_is_god · Mar 24, 2013

wingy said:
According to one "Appleton" statement yesterday this switch had not been achieved as of Thursday ,but that the legal team were actively trying to move it over .Now forgive me but have they been lying again ,telling the court that the switch over was done ,thus stopping ACL'scase on Friday morning .

More interestingly have they exposed themselves to losing this Share through admin,as surely someone could now bid to take this Share as Jack Griffin posted yesterday.,and should it not be impossible to move it over again as a result of this Admin.

The can't move it over, without the Football Leagues permission and that certainly isn't going to be granted now. SISU are stuffed.

Snozz_is_god · Mar 24, 2013

Steve.B50 said:
My concern is that SISU will not just take this without any fight, they are ruthless people who do not care about us.

True, but they didn't move the Golden Share, they don't have a leg to stand on. At the moment the only real assets they have are the players registrations. If the players aren't owned by the same company as the Golden Share then where does this leave us, basically a 3rd party owns the players registrations. oh dear!

OyJimmy · Mar 24, 2013

Can the player registrations be held by a different entity to the leagues golden share? If not Sisu's meddling could land us in more trouble. The FA need to provide guidance ASAP

Sky Blues · Mar 24, 2013

OyJimmy said:
Can the player registrations be held by a different entity to the leagues golden share? If not Sisu's meddling could land us in more trouble. The FA need to provide guidance ASAP

And isn't one of the requirements for getting the Golden Share that you need unfettered use of a football stadium - so would the football league sanction the transfer of the share if the ground lease does not move with it? Wouldn't it be awkward for Sisu if the league said you can move the share, but only if you move the lease across to!

Steve.B50 · Mar 24, 2013

Could all this mean the FL could give us more than 10 points?

Danceswithhorses · Mar 24, 2013

wingy said:
According to one "Appleton" statement yesterday this switch had not been achieved as of Thursday ,but that the legal team were actively trying to move it over .Now forgive me but have they been lying again ,telling the court that the switch over was done ,thus stopping ACL'scase on Friday morning .

More interestingly have they exposed themselves to losing this Share through admin,as surely someone could now bid to take this Share as Jack Griffin posted yesterday.

Talk about can of worms...could SISU really have been so underhand and reckless with the golden share transfer ?
If so, they could potentially lose control of the club and land CCFC with a large points penalty.

Black6Osprey · Mar 24, 2013

Steve.B50 said:
Could all this mean the FL could give us more than 10 points?

I think so. historically clubs who have tried to get off on a technicality have ended up getting a heavier punishment.

Jack Griffin · Mar 24, 2013

OyJimmy said:
Can the player registrations be held by a different entity to the leagues golden share? If not Sisu's meddling could land us in more trouble. The FA need to provide guidance ASAP

The compilers of the rules probably never thought of that one. Expect the rules to be amended in the close season.

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 24, 2013

Steve.B50 said:
Could all this mean the FL could give us more than 10 points?

Further penalties are usually applied only for leaving administration without a CVA in place. As SISU have appointed their own administrators it's unlikely that this rule would be broken.

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 24, 2013

Jack Griffin said:
The compilers of the rules probably never thought of that one. Expect the rules to be amended in the close season.

It's only since Leicester exploited the lack of regulation for entering administration when the football authorities started to wake up to the potential problem. I still don't think they've fully got to grips with it so wouldn't surprise me if the club has attempted something similar.

Jack Griffin · Mar 24, 2013

Which part of CCFC group is a full member of the FA, if SISU liquidate that will the club be entitled to play in the FA cup?

Is this something they forgot. Someone should make enquiries at the FA. Letter to Mr Dyke!

wingy · Mar 24, 2013

We got any Lawyers on the Forum,this is where they earn their Corn.

grego_gee · Mar 24, 2013

DazzleTommyDazzle said:
A statement from the Administrator just said that the holding company have "asserted a claim" on the "Football League Golden share".

My interpretation of that is that it probably still formally resides in CCFC Ltd (the company that has just been put into administration) as if it was in the holding company - and this was agreed and accepted by the Football League - there would seem no need to "assert a claim".

It may be an "asset" that is still registered with the company in administration (CCFC LTD). But it is questionable that it is an asset that anyone else could claim or if it has a saleable value. You could hardly sell it to a pub team and have them play in place of CCFC.

imp:

wingy · Mar 24, 2013

grego_gee said:
It may be an "asset" that is still registered with the company in administration (CCFC LTD). But it is questionable that it is an asset that anyone else could claim or if it has a saleable value. You could hardly sell it to a pub team and have them play in place of CCFC.

imp:

Surely CCFC could not play without it ,so the team is seperated from the league ,that means its valuable to someone attempting to get control here.How much would SISU be prepared to spend to fend off a rival bidder ,of course assuming this is the case .That Value would also tell us whether SISU have given up as it seems incredulous that they could expose themselves to this given their Legal Eagles and Reputation.

oldskyblue58 · Mar 24, 2013

so if the playing side is owned by ccfch but the share is owned by ccfc ltd is the result yesterday still valid ?

also if the member is ccfc ltd did we actually fail to fulfill a fixture yesterday

not saying any of that is right but it highlights what a mess this is for club, owners and league

TrakiaPlovdiv · Mar 24, 2013

With the complete lack of open-ness with the fans and the under handed way they go about their business, particularly over the handling of the Football League Golden Share and Administration of CCFC Ltd. The only thing I am surprised about is that no-one has yet brought about the question, are SISU demonstrating that they are a 'FIT & PROPER ORGANISATION' to run a Football Club, under the Football League Charter.

hutch1972 · Mar 24, 2013

TrakiaPlovdiv said:
With the complete lack of open-ness with the fans and the under handed way they go about their business, particularly over the handling of the Football League Golden Share and Administration of CCFC Ltd. The only thing I am surprised about is that no-one has yet brought about the question, are SISU demonstrating that they are a 'FIT & PROPER ORGANISATION' to run a Football Club, under the Football League Charter.

Under the current FL charter they probably are.!

grego_gee · Mar 24, 2013

oldskyblue58 said:
so if the playing side is owned by ccfch but the share is owned by ccfc ltd is the result yesterday still valid ?

also if the member is ccfc ltd did we actually fail to fulfill a fixture yesterday

not saying any of that is right but it highlights what a mess this is for club, owners and league

wingy said:
Surely CCFC could not play without it ,so the team is seperated from the league ,that means its valuable to someone attempting to get control here.How much would SISU be prepared to spend to fend off a rival bidder ,of course assuming this is the case .That Value would also tell us whether SISU have given up as it seems incredulous that they could expose themselves to this given their Legal Eagles and Reputation.

We don't know what the real situation is and I was making a comment based on previous comments and reports that CCFC holdings has asserted a claim on the golden share and therefore perhaps does not hold it.
You can say its a mess but maybe its not so much a mess but just that we as fans don't know the whole picture, including where the "golden share" lies.
At such a time, where ownership is being challenged, its hardly surprising that parties are keeping things under wraps and maybe they don;t have time to dot the i's and cross the t's in a statement for the fans but I would think (and hope) that SISU know what they are doing in these areas and trust that it will all come out in the wash.

I don't think there is any question about the validity of playing yesterday or future games. CCFC still exists under the control of the administrator.

imp:

rupert_bear · Mar 24, 2013

PWKH said on cwr yesterday there is a whole lot to come out we don't know about hopefully soon there will be a very thick edition of the Coventry Telegraph to read

Jack Griffin · Mar 24, 2013

Brighton Sky Blue said:
If it wasn't switched at the time administration was declared then it's game over as far as the points go. Bravo Tim, bravo.

Mmmmmm, maybe ACL got wind of the attempt to transfer the share & that is what decided them to act sooner rather than later. Though you wouldn't think they were aware of it from their comments.

warwickcccfc · Mar 24, 2013

Steve.B50 said:
My concern is that SISU will not just take this without any fight, they are ruthless people who do not care about us.

I disagree, SB50 as they are '...our saviours..' and would do nothing to harm the club or fans. :facepalm:

hutch1972 · Mar 24, 2013

rupert_bear said:
PWKH said on cwr yesterday there is a whole lot to come out we don't know about hopefully soon there will be a very thick edition of the Coventry Telegraph to read

There is a lot unknown since the go-ahead in 1997, and thanks to secrecy clauses signed by all involved ,never will be !!

The Prefect · Mar 24, 2013

I think there is no doubt that the Football League share is in the company that was placed in administration - this was confirmed by the administrator.

SISUs lawyers have made a claim on the share to the administrator however, it is unlikely that it would be allowed. The Football League is a closed company and their shares don't have any real 'value'.

I expect that this will resolve quite quickly as there is no doubt that CCFC (Holdings) don't have the share and therefore don't have the right to play in the football league. I always understood that player registrations were in the Football Club - but this might not be the case IF we believe the club's recent statements.

My opinion is that SISU have made a big error with this plan - it seems to be conceived to create jobs for lawyers (which I think is their real intent). The bottom line is that SISU (via Holdings) seem to claim the assets of the club (Football League share - player registrations etc) yet want to get rid of the liabilities they don't want i.e. debt to ACL.

I suspect the club are in very serious trouble - I wouldn't be surprised if we're relegated this season or at worse have a mountain to climb next year.

SkyblueBazza · Mar 24, 2013

Steve.B50 said:
Could all this mean the FL could give us more than 10 points?

Fantastic! We'd be second place
...or are talking deductions here? Lol

hutch1972 · Mar 24, 2013

grego_gee said:
It may be an "asset" that is still registered with the company in administration (CCFC LTD). But it is questionable that it is an asset that anyone else could claim or if it has a saleable value. You could hardly sell it to a pub team and have them play in place of CCFC.

imp:

I might be wrong but the biggest fact the FL look at, is the clubs ability to pay its football creditors,tax,wages,vat etc. I cannot say the golden share is a huge issue or not , but you are right grego i wouldn't think it has any monetary value at all .

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