The low down on ARVO (1 Viewer)

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 8, 2015

MichaelCCFC said:
Is the problem perhaps that sisu aren't actually building a stadium? It's getting close to 2 years since they said a new ground would be delivered within 3 years. It's proved a pr/spin masterstroke but 23 months down the line is the reality that it remains no more than that?

It does indeed.

And that, indeed, suggests they're either savagely hopeless or unwilling to do so.

Think we need to split off what SISU say is best for the club, what CCC say is best for the vlub, and what might well be.

The unfortunate element in all of this is both SISU and CCC play on what's best for the club, and some of what they say may well indeed be so.

You have to question the angles and the motivations however.

As per now. SISU wanting a new stadium - nonsense, clearly hardly progressed has it, if in 23 months it doesn't get beynd a cartoon drawing.

That doesn't necessarily make th concept wrong however, rather it makes SISU's 'interpretation' wrong...

Noggin · Apr 8, 2015

Deleted member 5849 said:
Still identity, identity, identity.

Plenty wanting to out-SISU SISU on this thread.

no it's money money money. If we had fans as owners it might be identity identity identity but we don't, quite the opposite in fact, if the stadium doesn't make financial sense (and it doesn't) the stadium doesn't happen (under sisu at least)

how could anyone not want sisu out?

oldskyblue58 · Apr 8, 2015

I think you find its longer than 2 years. I seem to remember it was being threatened December 2012/ January 2013

torchomatic · Apr 8, 2015

This one for a start:

Noggin said:
Still a better option than going to Northampton or building a new stadium.

Paying over a million pounds a year to rent a piece of grass with little income will be the death of this club. The failure of Wasps (fingers crossed) or a "potential" new stadium may well save us.*

DISCLAIMER: I don't necessarily think a new stadium will ever be built but I don't think renting from Wasps at the Ricoh is sustainable long term

Noggin said:
Which of my comments are laughable? come on if you wish to debate put up or shut up.

Noggin · Apr 8, 2015

Deleted member 5849 said:
It does indeed.

And that, indeed, suggests they're either savagely hopeless or unwilling to do so.

Think we need to split off what SISU say is best for the club, what CCC say is best for the vlub, and what might well be.

The unfortunate element in all of this is both SISU and CCC play on what's best for the club, and some of what they say may well indeed be so.

You have to question the angles and the motivations however.

As per now. SISU wanting a new stadium - nonsense, clearly hardly progressed has it, if in 23 months it doesn't get beynd a cartoon drawing.

That doesn't necessarily make th concept wrong however, rather it makes SISU's 'interpretation' wrong...

Now we agree, so lets leave it there, I've wasted too much time on internet forums for one day, I should really do something more productive.

torchomatic · Apr 8, 2015

So what does make financial sense? How will the club survive long term at the Ricoh and thrive, not just exist?

Noggin said:
no it's money money money. If we had fans as owners it might be identity identity identity but we don't, quite the opposite in fact, if the stadium doesn't make financial sense (and it doesn't) the stadium doesn't happen (under sisu at least)

how could anyone not want sisu out?

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 8, 2015

Noggin said:
no it's money money money. If we had fans as owners it might be identity identity identity but we don't, quite the opposite in fact

Thus proving my point...

Noggin · Apr 8, 2015

torchomatic said:
This one for a start:

Paying over a million pounds a year to rent a piece of grass with little income will be the death of this club. The failure of Wasps (fingers crossed) or a "potential" new stadium may well save us.*

DISCLAIMER: I don't necessarily think a new stadium will ever be built but I don't think renting from Wasps at the Ricoh is sustainable long term

none of that disagrees with my assertion that building a new stadium is worse financially than paying 1million in rent.

The costs to borrow the money to build are going to be significantly more than paying even silly high rent even after taking into account the increased revenues, under the current situation anyway.

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 8, 2015

oldskyblue58 said:
I think you find its longer than 2 years. I seem to remember it was being threatened December 2012/ January 2013

It was Plan B then however, so just a possibility.

Only really became Plan A when negotiations were at an end from ACL's POV

Ashdown · Apr 8, 2015

Godiva said:
It simply means that 'somebody' owns the club. Those 'somebody' are owned by 'somebody else'.
At the end of the day there's not really anything new. It's a piece written to scare us. It will work on those already scared.

All the numbers have previously been dissected a thousand times.

Scared or just utterly fucked off with the incompetents. Please get your emotions correct !

oldskyblue58 · Apr 8, 2015

You mean there is a plan to all this NW, a result they can see that can be achieved ............. I would never have guessed you know, I was thinking it was more like knee jerk crisis decision making with no clear direction but there you go :laugh: :facepalm:

Noggin · Apr 8, 2015

torchomatic said:
So what does make financial sense? How will the club survive long term at the Ricoh and thrive, not just exist?

Ok I'm off before I get annoyed.

I'm not sure how many times it needs to be said that just because the current situation isn't viable doesn't mean that the new stadium situation is, it's not, it's worse, significantly worse. does that suck? absolfriggenlutely, does that mean it's hard to see a good outcome for ccfc yes it does. but trying to argue for a new stadium when it doesn't make financial sense, when it's clearly worse than the (sucky) status quo, is just falling for sisus games. The only way we are building a new stadium while we are a league 1 team is if we get taken over by a rich sugar daddy.

Ashdown · Apr 8, 2015

Noggin said:
Ok I'm off before I get annoyed.

I'm not sure how many times it needs to be said that just because the current situation isn't viable doesn't mean that the new stadium situation is, it's not, it's worse, significantly worse. does that suck? absolfriggenlutely, does that mean it's hard to see a good outcome for ccfc yes it does. but trying to argue for a new stadium when it doesn't make financial sense, when it's clearly worse than the (sucky) status quo, is just falling for sisus games. The only way we are building a new stadium while we are a league 1 team is if we get taken over by a rich sugar daddy.

The rich sugar Daddy would just buy the Ricoh off Wasps anyway !!

skybluetony176 · Apr 8, 2015

Noggin said:
Ok I'm off before I get annoyed.

I'm not sure how many times it needs to be said that just because the current situation isn't viable doesn't mean that the new stadium situation is, it's not, it's worse, significantly worse. does that suck? absolfriggenlutely, does that mean it's hard to see a good outcome for ccfc yes it does. but trying to argue for a new stadium when it doesn't make financial sense, when it's clearly worse than the (sucky) status quo, is just falling for sisus games. The only way we are building a new stadium while we are a league 1 team is if we get taken over by a rich sugar daddy.

I'm sure if there was a good business case for the new stadium SISU would have produced it by now if not at the very first mention of a new stadium. The fact that they havent tells you everything that you need to know, the fact that we are 2 years into the project and someone has only just been able to find the number for local authority tells you everything that you need to know. Doesn't make our current situation any better or ideal but if the alternative was the improvement some people on here seem to be willing accept it will be on little more than sound bites there is no helping them.

torchomatic · Apr 8, 2015

Weird, on one hand you're saying that the current situation isn't viable but it MIGHT be, yet on the other you say a new stadium NEVER will be. Blinkered thinking to the extreme. It's my way or the highway, eh? I will throw it back at you, just because a new stadium might not make financial sense NOW,doesn't mean it won't in the future, does it?

And who's to say our mythical rich sugar daddy wouldn't want a new stadium?

Noggin said:
Ok I'm off before I get annoyed.

I'm not sure how many times it needs to be said that just because the current situation isn't viable doesn't mean that the new stadium situation is, it's not, it's worse, significantly worse. does that suck? absolfriggenlutely, does that mean it's hard to see a good outcome for ccfc yes it does. but trying to argue for a new stadium when it doesn't make financial sense, when it's clearly worse than the (sucky) status quo, is just falling for sisus games. The only way we are building a new stadium while we are a league 1 team is if we get taken over by a rich sugar daddy.

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 8, 2015

oldskyblue58 said:
You mean there is a plan to all this NW, a result they can see that can be achieved ............. I would never have guessed you know, I was thinking it was more like knee jerk crisis decision making with no clear direction but there you go :laugh: :facepalm:

Whatever the competence... or lack of, it's probably fair to say it was mentioned in the simplest of terms, that CCFC needed to break a monopoly in stadium supply to get better deals on their stadium use.

For whatever reason of it becoming 'Plan' A, the chance is lost in all this bickering to at least push the general principle is not necessarily bad. This is lost amidst the antagonism towards owners. I say again, we're denying any opportunity to CCFC further down the line, post-SISU, as we appear to be marching headlong towards a line of one option, and one option only.

And dare I say it, I suspect that's where CCC would rather we headed... but gun to head never works long-term... from whoever's perspective. Surely we've learned that much by now?

torchomatic · Apr 8, 2015

Totally agree, which is why I think the Wasps decision will affect us more more than SISUs tenure ever will.

Deleted member 5849 said:
For whatever reason of it becoming 'Plan' A, the chance is lost in all this bickering to at least push the general principle is not necessarily bad. This is lost amidst the antagonism towards owners. I say again, we're denying any opportunity to CCFC further down the line, post-SISU, as we appear to be marching headlong towards a line of one option, and one option only.

Ashdown · Apr 8, 2015

Deleted member 5849 said:
Whatever the competence... or lack of, it's probably fair to say it was mentioned in the simplest of terms, that CCFC needed to break a monopoly in stadium supply to get better deals on their stadium use.

For whatever reason of it becoming 'Plan' A, the chance is lost in all this bickering to at least push the general principle is not necessarily bad. This is lost amidst the antagonism towards owners. I say again, we're denying any opportunity to CCFC further down the line, post-SISU, as we appear to be marching headlong towards a line of one option, and one option only.

And dare I say it, I suspect that's where CCC would rather we headed... but gun to head never works long-term... from whoever's perspective. Surely we've learned that much by now?

You talk about further down the line but as 'Fernando' points out on about page 2, football is truly shagged from the current Prem teams down due to money distribution. At best what could CCFC look forward to ? Mid table Championship ?

Ashdown · Apr 8, 2015

torchomatic said:
Totally agree, which is why I think the Wasps decision will affect us more more than SISUs tenure ever will.

The Wasps decision came because of the incompetence of our owners though didn't it. If they hadn't have started a war on Lucas, the silly cow wouldn't have sold OUR stadium from underneath us !

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 8, 2015

Ashdown said:
You talk about further down the line but as 'Fernando' points out on about page 2, football is truly shagged from the current Prem teams down due to money distribution. At best what could CCFC look forward to ? Mid table Championship ?

FWIW I'd take mid-table Championship with a few heroes, our own ground that's not overly corporatised, and a smattering of local identity within.

Anyway, football may be shagged... but at some point optimistically, as with most bubbles, it'll burst.

And when it does, it'd be nice to think we hadn't cocked the trigger ourselves, and we'd at least encouraged the foundations to be there.

torchomatic · Apr 8, 2015

Yes, chicken and egg, however that drastic decision (despite all her "a club shouldn't be ripped from its community" nonsense), will still be dragging us down long after SISU have disappeared. In fact, we might never recover.

Ashdown said:
The Wasps decision came because of the incompetence of our owners though didn't it. If they hadn't have started a war on Lucas, the silly cow wouldn't have sold OUR stadium from underneath us !

Ian1779 · Apr 8, 2015

Ashdown said:
The Wasps decision came because of the incompetence of our owners though didn't it. If they hadn't have started a war on Lucas, the silly cow wouldn't have sold OUR stadium from underneath us !

Yes you are right mostly.. although Lucas had a choice not to sell out the club long term.

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 8, 2015

Ashdown said:
The Wasps decision came because of the incompetence of our owners though didn't it. If they hadn't have started a war on Lucas, the silly cow wouldn't have sold OUR stadium from underneath us !

Far too simplistic to decide it's all one way though... and these are where the circles begin!

After all, you could go back to GR wanting the rent revised soon after moving in and no movement... you could go back to the club taking up the option to buy Highfield Road back... but not to play in, you could go back to ACL announcing negotiations at an end.

Where have you been the past couple of years? These tedious circles have been done already! How about we move on to some new tedious circles? And the main one, as far as I can see, is we're a club without a home. We need a home, so what can we do to make the conditions as favourable as possible to us having a home in the future?

Gazolba · Apr 8, 2015

We are like someone who has bought a car of no inherent value and has sunk thousands into maintaining it. It runs but has no appeal to anyone else. There is no way the money sunk in can be recouped. The only way out is to scrap it or to give it away at a loss.

Ashdown · Apr 8, 2015

We have a population bursting with people wanting to attach themselves to one big time Charlie team or another and seen as they can't all cram into The Emirates/The Etihad/Anfield/Old Trafford etc are prepared to keep investing in SKY TV to fund the inequality. I can't see the bubble bursting for a long time yet and in the meantime the younger generations coming through generally get brainwashed with the glitz and the smaller clubs dwindle.

Ashdown · Apr 8, 2015

Deleted member 5849 said:
Far too simplistic to decide it's all one way though... and these are where the circles begin!

After all, you could go back to GR wanting the rent revised soon after moving in and no movement... you could go back to the club taking up the option to buy Highfield Road back... but not to play in, you could go back to ACL announcing negotiations at an end.

Where have you been the past couple of years? These tedious circles have been done already! How about we move on to some new tedious circles? And the main one, as far as I can see, is we're a club without a home. We need a home, so what can we do to make the conditions as favourable as possible to us having a home in the future?

We have a home, we don't need a new one outside of Coventry. The club needs to remove Fisher/Waggot and start talking about how they can make the best of where they are with Wasps. If that means bringing in event management teams to organise lucrative events and then paying a bit more to the Landlords then so be it. You have to speculate to accumulate, at the moment the current fools couldn't organise a jumble sale on a pasting table. The way to win back ownership of the Ricoh ultimately is to make CCFC a bigger better supported club than Wasps. Funding it on a shoestring and selling the occasional academy player along the way is the sure fire way to gradual extinction.

Noggin · Apr 8, 2015

torchomatic said:
Weird, on one hand you're saying that the current situation isn't viable but it MIGHT be, yet on the other you say a new stadium NEVER will be. Blinkered thinking to the extreme. It's my way or the highway, eh? I will throw it back at you, just because a new stadium might not make financial sense NOW,doesn't mean it won't in the future, does it?

And who's to say our mythical rich sugar daddy wouldn't want a new stadium?

you seem to have completely misread what I wrote and are only seeing what you want to see.

I didn't say any of that, in fact I said the opposite for the most part.

oldskyblue58 · Apr 8, 2015

This is all very interesting but what does it contribute to the low down on ARVO? This thread seems to have got side tracked

Noggin · Apr 8, 2015

oldskyblue58 said:
This is all very interesting but what does it contribute to the low down on ARVO? This thread seems to have got side tracked

We arn't offtopic until Grendel brings up Andy Thorn.

wince · Apr 8, 2015

at the moment the current fools couldn't organise a jumble sale on a pasting table

Hey leave the club shop out this

shmmeee · Apr 8, 2015

chiefdave said:
How? With Grendel's example it would be £1m a year for the next 250 years so £250m, for which we would get no revenue access. In what way is that better than building a new stadium where we get access to all revenues?

It's all hypothetical of course but just shows again that all scenarios need to be worked up fully to allow the best way forward to be chosen.

What builder are you using to get a stadium that'll last 250 years?

chiefdave · Apr 8, 2015

shmmeee said:
What builder are you using to get a stadium that'll last 250 years?

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