The World Cup Thread (2 Viewers)

chiefdave · Jul 8, 2018

Otis said:
Yeah, I get all that and I am a big Sterling fan, but at international level you have to take your chances.

Yesterday we scored 2, but they were the only 2 we had on target.

Spot on. Not sure why it has suddenly become so fashionable to praise Sterling to the sky and proclaim anyone who doesn't agree doesn't know what he's on about but at the end of the day at some point missing chances is going to cost you.

Of course there are other things he does well but we'd be going nuts if Biamou was missing those chances, Sterling is a £50m player, putting away at least one of them shouldn't be beyond him.

Southgate isn't going to change the team now though, who would? We're in a World Cup semi.

Otis · Jul 8, 2018

Sky Blue Harry H said:
Think I had a bet on Maguire to score first goal on SBT bookies - come on and update the system, I may have won a few quid for a change!

Same here.

Have had a good run. I had Stones first scorer against Panama, Kane first scorer against Colombia, Maguire first scorer last night and also had England to win 2-0, Russia to draw and put a shed load on England simply winning.

SIR ERNIE · Jul 8, 2018

Sky Blue Harry H said:
Think I had a bet on Maguire to score first goal on SBT bookies - come on and update the system, I may have won a few quid for a change!

well done Harry

Deleted member 5849 · Jul 8, 2018

Deleted member 5849 said:
Panama (how the hell did they manage to get to the WC?!?)

Just checked. A whole 1,500 there to watch Trinidad & Tobago beat USA to knock USA out...

Otis · Jul 8, 2018

Deleted member 5849 said:
Just checked. A whole 1,500 there to watch Trinidad & Tobago beat USA to knock USA out...

Interesting to note, but slightly unfair on the Yanks having to play two teams at once.

SIR ERNIE · Jul 8, 2018

Otis said:
Same here.

Have had a good run. I had Stones first scorer against Panama, Kane first scorer against Colombia, Maguire first scorer last night and also had England to win 2-0, Russia to draw and put a shed load on England simply winning.

What price did you get for Maguire?

Otis · Jul 8, 2018

SIR ERNIE said:
What price did you get for Maguire?

33/1. Think I had 30 quid on him.

hotrod · Jul 8, 2018

chiefdave said:
Spot on. Not sure why it has suddenly become so fashionable to praise Sterling to the sky and proclaim anyone who doesn't agree doesn't know what he's on about but at the end of the day at some point missing chances is going to cost you.

Of course there are other things he does well but we'd be going nuts if Biamou was missing those chances, Sterling is a £50m player, putting away at least one of them shouldn't be beyond him.

Southgate isn't going to change the team now though, who would? We're in a World Cup semi.

If Sterling would pass to a better positioned player instead of being selfish,he would be a world beater and England would definitely win the World Cup.If he continues to be greedy we may come to regret his inclusion.

Regards.

Otis · Jul 8, 2018

hotrod said:
If Sterling would pass to a better positioned player instead of being selfish,he would be a world beater and England would definitely win the World Cup.If he continues to be greedy we may come to regret his inclusion.

Regards.

Well that's it. He surely knows his finishing is poor. That has to form part of his mindset.

At Man City he gets loads of chances set up on a plate for him from just a few yards out.

For England he has to realise he is much less likely to get that and he should adjust his game accordingly and lay the ball off for others more often instead of taking the chance on and missing.

tisza · Jul 8, 2018

CJ_covblaze said:
I thought this was the worst England team you could remember?

same mistake too many made - confusing "team" with a side lacking star names.
Argentina proved you can have a couple of star names but if the rest is poor and have no team style not going to do well most of the time.

tisza · Jul 8, 2018

Genuinely believe when the chips are down it's going to be Sterling who gets the goal.
last night showed that Croatian defence is going to struggle with players running at them - struggled with slow Russians taking them on at times. Know from PL experience Lovren is a penalty waiting to happen.
Need to look at overall picture. Sterling keeping Swedish & Colombian defence from pressing up. Extra time vs. Colombia and their defence was playing 10 yards higher up the pitch and creating England far more problems.

Mucca Mad Boys · Jul 8, 2018

Otis said:
Well that's it. He surely knows his finishing is poor. That has to form part of his mindset.

At Man City he gets loads of chances set up on a plate for him from just a few yards out.

For England he has to realise he is much less likely to get that and he should adjust his game accordingly and lay the ball off for others more often instead of taking the chance on and missing.

That’s unfair on Sterling. He plays in a different role at Man City and even Sané struggled in the German setup — international football is played a lot deeper so players in that mould get less chances all together.

Yesterday, Sterling was our most threatening player, his pace constantly put Sweden on the back foot and forced throw-ins, corners and freekicks from nothing over this campaign. I was reading some stats after the Colombia game, and we have far less completed dribbles per game than France, Belgium, Brazil and Sterling was by far ahead for us. Take him out of the team, and no one is carrying the ball. Coincidently, our main strength is set plays (by far the best in the competition) and one thing Kane and Sterling have done very well is drawing fouls so we can put Stones and Maguire up in the opposition box. A goal would have topped things off for Sterling, but yesterday was a vindication for Southgate in keeping faith in Alli and Sterling. The more reliable pundits have praised Sterling for his performance.

To put this example into a Cov perspective, Bayliss was such a revelation for us because he carried the ball, something that was missing in our team after Jones got injured. You have to have at least one main dribbler in your team.

Back to England, we need to create more chances for Kane though. Before the Sweden game, he averaged 3 shots a game (including penalties) and his Spurs average is 5 shots each game. He is our match winner and frankly, to stand a chance in the final (if we get there) we’ll probably need him to score.

Sky Blue Harry H · Jul 8, 2018

Mucca Mad Boys said:
That’s unfair on Sterling. He plays in a different role at Man City and even Sané struggled in the German setup — international football is played a lot deeper so players in that mould get less chances all together.

Yesterday, Sterling was our most threatening player, his pace constantly put Sweden on the back foot and forced throw-ins, corners and freekicks from nothing over this campaign. I was reading some stats after the Colombia game, and we have far less completed dribbles per game than France, Belgium, Brazil and Sterling was by far ahead for us. Take him out of the team, and no one is carrying the ball. Coincidently, our main strength is set plays (by far the best in the competition) and one thing Kane and Sterling have done very well is drawing fouls so we can put Stones and Maguire up in the opposition box. A goal would have topped things off for Sterling, but yesterday was a vindication for Southgate in keeping faith in Alli and Sterling. The more reliable pundits have praised Sterling for his performance.

To put this example into a Cov perspective, Bayliss was such a revelation for us because he carried the ball, something that was missing in our team after Jones got injured. You have to have at least one main dribbler in your team.

Back to England, we need to create more chances for Kane though. Before the Sweden game, he averaged 3 shots a game (including penalties) and his Spurs average is 5 shots each game. He is our match winner and frankly, to stand a chance in the final (if we get there) we’ll probably need him to score.

Care to expand?

Otis · Jul 8, 2018

Mucca Mad Boys said:
That’s unfair on Sterling. He plays in a different role at Man City and even Sané struggled in the German setup — international football is played a lot deeper so players in that mould get less chances all together.

Yesterday, Sterling was our most threatening player, his pace constantly put Sweden on the back foot and forced throw-ins, corners and freekicks from nothing over this campaign. I was reading some stats after the Colombia game, and we have far less completed dribbles per game than France, Belgium, Brazil and Sterling was by far ahead for us. Take him out of the team, and no one is carrying the ball. Coincidently, our main strength is set plays (by far the best in the competition) and one thing Kane and Sterling have done very well is drawing fouls so we can put Stones and Maguire up in the opposition box. A goal would have topped things off for Sterling, but yesterday was a vindication for Southgate in keeping faith in Alli and Sterling. The more reliable pundits have praised Sterling for his performance.

To put this example into a Cov perspective, Bayliss was such a revelation for us because he carried the ball, something that was missing in our team after Jones got injured. You have to have at least one main dribbler in your team.

Back to England, we need to create more chances for Kane though. Before the Sweden game, he averaged 3 shots a game (including penalties) and his Spurs average is 5 shots each game. He is our match winner and frankly, to stand a chance in the final (if we get there) we’ll probably need him to score.

As I have said a number of times, I am a fan of Sterling.

He has to score or set up others to score though, it really is that simple.

He was a constant threat to Sweden last night, but there was no end product.

Mucca Mad Boys · Jul 8, 2018

hotrod said:
If Sterling would pass to a better positioned player instead of being selfish,he would be a world beater and England would definitely win the World Cup.If he continues to be greedy we may come to regret his inclusion.

Regards.

He wasn’t selfish at all. Sweden recovered that very well. The goalkeeper gets a touch and pushes it out wide. Then, a defender immediately covers the near post (option A closed) and before he can control the ball, 2 Swedish defenders cut the passing lane within about 3 seconds. He should’ve done better but you’ve got to give credit to the Swedish because they recovered really well.

Grendel · Jul 8, 2018

Otis said:
As I have said a number of times, I am a fan of Sterling.

He has to score or set up others to score though, it really is that simple.

He was a constant threat to Sweden last night, but there was no end product.

There was plenty of end product as his pace pulled the defence apart on numerous occasions- he won corners free kicks and his pace created a lot of issues and space for others.

Otis · Jul 8, 2018

Grendel said:
There was plenty of end product as his pace pulled the defence apart on numerous occasions- he won corners free kicks and his pace created a lot of issues and space for others.

You were calling for him to be dropped the other day weren't you?

Otis · Jul 8, 2018

Grendel said:
There was plenty of end product as his pace pulled the defence apart on numerous occasions- he won corners free kicks and his pace created a lot of issues and space for others.

Hmm, and what about when Biamou was doing the same, but not scoring?

Biamou was clearly making space for others and was pulling defences about with his running and making a nuisance of himself.

How come with him it was only about the goals? You just kept putting up his goal stats endlessly all season.

I am a fan of Sterling, but at international level you have to take your chances.

Mucca Mad Boys · Jul 8, 2018

Otis said:
As I have said a number of times, I am a fan of Sterling.

He has to score or set up others to score though, it really is that simple.

He was a constant threat to Sweden last night, but there was no end product.

We don’t create many chances from open play. Harry Kane’s only shot (that I can recall, first half) came from a Sterling dribble. Sterling, or anyone, isn’t the problem per se. The stat about Kane speaks for itself, he’s taking about half the amount of shots for England as he does for Spurs.

We set up in a very pragmatic way and have accepted that we’re not the best team individually and we’re not the most comfortable in possession to play through defenders as past German and Spanish sides have done. Our shape and tactics reflects this reality. The 3 centre backs gives us protection whilst the wingbacks get forward. Henderson, with his range of passing acts as a pivot, and generally, Lingard and Alli are to get forward (hence Southgate saying he sees as having 4 forwards). Sterling functions in a similar role to how a lot of teams play a 5-3-2 with a winger/midfielder operating as a ‘striker’. Not too dissimilar to how Bale played for Wales in 2016 or how Russia setup v Spain this World Cup. Why is this? In 5-3-2 systems, there’s generally a lack players who can dribble the ball if you play two ‘out and out’ strikers. At this moment, Southgate is picking the most balanced squad at this disposal.

As for tactics, we’ve scored 11 goals with only 3 goals coming from open play, 72% of our goals come from set pieces. Comparatively, none of the remaining teams in this World Cup have above 50% of their goals from set pieces (France are next on 45% IIRC). A wise tactic from Southgate because 43% of World Cup goals come from set pieces. However, we’re arguably overly reliant on goals from set pieces which tells you that we need to create more from open play of we’re too improve — in fairness, we created a couple of decent chances v Sweden.

The question is, is there anyone who can come in and do what he does better than Sterling? The answer is no. Southgate knows this.

Mucca Mad Boys · Jul 8, 2018

Otis said:
Hmm, and what about when Biamou was doing the same, but not scoring?

Biamou was clearly making space for others and was pulling defences about with his running and making a nuisance of himself.

How come with him it was only about the goals? You just kept putting up his goal stats endlessly all season.

I am a fan of Sterling, but at international level you have to take your chances.

I agree with the Biamou points because goals aren’t necessarily the be all and end all.

Much like when Rashford missed a clear 1v1 with plenty of time and space? For Sterling’s chance, it was good goalkeeping and recovery defence. Should’ve done better, but his options were cut off very quickly — it wasn’t as easy as it looks, 100%.

Mucca Mad Boys · Jul 8, 2018

Sky Blue Harry H said:
Care to expand?

What would you like me to expand upon haha

Grendel · Jul 8, 2018

Otis said:
You were calling for him to be dropped the other day weren't you?

Yes but you can’t deny he was effective yesterday

Grendel · Jul 8, 2018

Otis said:
Hmm, and what about when Biamou was doing the same, but not scoring?

Biamou was clearly making space for others and was pulling defences about with his running and making a nuisance of himself.

How come with him it was only about the goals? You just kept putting up his goal stats endlessly all season.

I am a fan of Sterling, but at international level you have to take your chances.

Biamou has zero pace to compare the two is absurd

Deleted member 5849 · Jul 8, 2018

Grendel said:
Yes but you can’t deny he was effective yesterday

He was. There was definitely a case for dropping him after the Colombia game, rather less so after Sweden. There's an argument I suppose you start with someone else and bring Sterling on when they tire to run at them, but Rashford and Vardy seem to be Southgate's choices as impact subs in that respect.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jul 8, 2018

MusicDating said:
That's fine, you've selected your scapegoat already if we don't win it. And if we do win, it will be despite Sterling...

I'm screaming at the tv shouting 'how do you miss that!' as much as anyone, but that's ignoring what he brings to the side. He set up Kane's chance (which he should have scored from) and made the chances he missed by making great runs.

Why do you think Sweden (qualified ahead of Netherlands, beat Italy in the playoff, topped a group including Germany and Mexico) looked 'rubbish'? Maybe it was because they couldn't keep their nice rigid 4-4-2 formation and were scared of our pace.

I'm sure you know more than Pep, Gareth and Domenech though...

It's not a scapegoat. It's called knowing your weaknesses and addressing them before it comes too costly. It is fact that we have ridden our luck in some games when we haven't buried our chances, nearly all of these have fallen to Sterling.

I said before the tournament he shouldn't be playing, can you honestly look yourself in the mirror and say he has played good? He has been one of our worst players, but now we are down to the 'yeah but he makes good runs' argument. It's laughable really that he had an average game (instead of terrible) against Sweden and suddenly he is the messiah again.

Sweden, for the record, are really awful. I lived there for a while and have followed them ever since, including watching every game of theirs this tournament. They put Pontus Jansson up front ffs. He is a mid-table championship centre back. How can you make out they are good?

I sometimes wonder if Sterling committed a murder if people would still defend him. He has been the disappointment of the tournament (hardly a shock) yet gets away with it because he makes good runs.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jul 8, 2018

MusicDating said:
3 ex-international defenders 'blindly defending him'...:emoji_joy:

Take sides with them if you want, but it is a bit desperate.

He has been atrocious given he is supposed to be a 'star man'. You need to drop the love-in.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jul 8, 2018

SIR ERNIE said:
They finished above Netherlands in their WC qualifying group, beat France 2-1, knocked out Italy in their WC play-off and of course finished above Germany in their group.

So not exactly rubbish.

Credit England for making them look distinctly average.

Sweden are rubbish. What did you make of them yesterday exactly?

I suggest you do what I did and watch them play in all of their internationals and come back to me with an apology. They would struggle in the championship.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jul 8, 2018

Mucca Mad Boys said:
I agree with the Biamou points because goals aren’t necessarily the be all and end all.

Much like when Rashford missed a clear 1v1 with plenty of time and space? For Sterling’s chance, it was good goalkeeping and recovery defence. Should’ve done better, but his options were cut off very quickly — it wasn’t as easy as it looks, 100%.

What about the other eleventy billion chances he has missed?

Otis · Jul 8, 2018

Grendel said:
Yes but you can’t deny he was effective yesterday

If you look back at the thread, you will see Wingy was saying to take him off at half time and I was saying leave him on because he was a real threat to the Swedish defence.

Otis · Jul 8, 2018

Grendel said:
Biamou has zero pace to compare the two is absurd

Who said I was comparing the two on speed?

Was comparing in terms of making space for others.

Mucca Mad Boys · Jul 8, 2018

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
What about the other eleventy billion chances he has missed?

What? 1 chance against Panama which Stones followed up?

He missed a couple of offside chances, so what? They wouldn't have counted anyway.

SBAndy · Jul 8, 2018

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I sometimes wonder if Sterling committed a murder if people would still defend him. He has been the disappointment of the tournament (hardly a shock) yet gets away with it because he makes good runs.

You really know how to labour a point don't you.

MusicDating · Jul 8, 2018

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Take sides with them if you want, but it is a bit desperate.

He has been atrocious given he is supposed to be a 'star man'. You need to drop the love-in.

'Them' being international football people with I'd guess over 1000 top flight games of experience or you? Erm.

My view of Henderson has changed completely in this tournament and fair play to him. What would it take for you to be man enough to do the same with Sterling?...

Nick · Jul 8, 2018

MusicDating said:
'Them' being international football people with I'd guess over 1000 top flight games of experience or you? Erm.

My view of Henderson has changed completely in this tournament and fair play to him. What would it take for you to be man enough to do the same with Sterling?...

If sterling didn't get the silly abuse in the media before then people wouldn't be trying too hard now

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jul 8, 2018

MusicDating said:
'Them' being international football people with I'd guess over 1000 top flight games of experience or you? Erm.

My view of Henderson has changed completely in this tournament and fair play to him. What would it take for you to be man enough to do the same with Sterling?...

What would it take? It would take more than just one average performance in an international tournament from a player who some have branded around as world class. All I've seen is the same shit.

I wasn't sure about Henderson, Pickford, or Maguire but they have been brilliant and I'm happy that's the case. I'm more than happy to admit maybe I've been harsh on them.

The day Sterling starts performing even half as good as some say he is I will be happy for him, and certainly happy to be proved wrong.

I've said this from the start but there is absolutely no way he's proved that this tournament. I've got zero basis to believe I'm wrong with him and if anything he has more people on his back than ever. It isn't just a conspiracy...

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