The World Cup Thread (18 Viewers)

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jul 8, 2018

Mucca Mad Boys said:
The bolded part of your quote shows the irrationality of your argument if you truly believe that.

Sterling wasn’t the only one to receive criticism. Lingard was criticised v Tunisia for his misses, Pickford was criticised v Belgium, Dele was dismissed as ‘unfit’ and calls for Loftus-Cheek were regular. Maguire was rated a 3 or a 4 out of 10 in the Metro (and low rating in other publications) the night after the Tunisia game. Young has been criticised for cutting in on his right before he crosses it, so Rose should start because he’s a left footer (I held this opinion, and Lingard tbf and I was wrong). Each of Southgate’s selections has vindicated him game after game. Frankly, Southgate sees the bigger picture and most football fans, let’s be honest, don’t. How many people were calling for multiple changes after the Colombia game just on this thread? Too many, and they were all wrong.

You've set yourself up for defeat there.

Dele was rightly criticised in my opinion, but he was there to score a vital goal against Sweden (saving Sterling's missathon blushes). Lingard missed some easy chances against Tunisia, but was there against Panama to put them to the sword.

Sterling was shit in all the games but at a few occasions in one game had a player who is pretty old and destined for Allsvenskan (league 1 football) struggling.

The other players have been criticsed but have pulled it out the bag and therefore redeemed themselves. Sterling who is supposedly meant to be a shining star still dissapoints.

Carry on living in fantasy land if you want. One average performance on the back of two awful ones doesn't make it go away.

Southgate is someone I admire a lot but he is sticking with a winning team. No more can be read into it than that.

Johnnythespider · Jul 9, 2018

xcraigx said:
He wasn't on the pitch so couldn't take a penalty.

That's a good point which I'd forgotten

CJ_covblaze · Jul 9, 2018

MusicDating said:
So you don't think we'll win it CJ (btw for the oldies out there, I still think of Reggie Perrin when I write that...)? I've got a couple of mates out there who are pretty confident 'it's coming home'...

Interesting to just read that the Croatia coach Dalic has highlighted Kane and Sterling as the main threats (World Cup 2018: Croatia can deal with Harry Kane after 'stopping Messi' - Zlatko Dalic). Is there any frustration amongst fans for any players seemingly not performing or is it all about the team?

Should rephrase that. I make them favourites to do so and have ever since the group stage. That being said with how this tournament has gone you never know what’s going to happen next.

Not performing? The stuff Sterling does off the ball is invaluable. He’s stretched every defence he’s played against. Constantly being a pain in arse for the opposition. Also a good proportion of the time when he gets the ball, within seconds we’re about 30 yards further forward. We wouldn’t be in the Semis if it wasn’t for him. I’d take a guess that only Lingard and Henderson have covered more kilometres this tournament.

Otis · Jul 9, 2018

CJ_covblaze said:
Should rephrase that. I make them favourites to do so and have ever since the group stage. That being said with how this tournament has gone you never know what’s going to happen next.

Not performing? The stuff Sterling does off the ball is invaluable. He’s stretched every defence he’s played against. Constantly being a pain in arse for the opposition. Also a good proportion of the time when he gets the ball, within seconds we’re about 30 yards further forward. We wouldn’t be in the Semis if it wasn’t for him. I’d take a guess that only Lingard and Henderson have covered more kilometres this tournament.

Would be a stat I would keenly like to see.

Henderson at number one you think?

He seems to be all over the place.

Mucca Mad Boys · Jul 9, 2018

CJ_covblaze said:
Wednesday is going to be very tough. I think they’re going win it. With regards to Italy and Holland it’s no surprise. The Dutch are one of the worst sides I’ve seen us play in the last year or so. Italy are better than them but still not that good. Missing out will be the big wake up call they need.

Some potentially good news, the likelihood of a team winning the next round after penalties is 25% when they’re ranked lower than their next opponent (power rankings not FIFA). Croatia have got a good midfield, so it can be a tough game, but I think two penalty shootout wins in a row will be two much for them. A lot of their players were struggling in that’s Russia game.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
You've set yourself up for defeat there.

Dele was rightly criticised in my opinion, but he was there to score a vital goal against Sweden (saving Sterling's missathon blushes). Lingard missed some easy chances against Tunisia, but was there against Panama to put them to the sword.

Sterling was shit in all the games but at a few occasions in one game had a player who is pretty old and destined for Allsvenskan (league 1 football) struggling.

The other players have been criticsed but have pulled it out the bag and therefore redeemed themselves. Sterling who is supposedly meant to be a shining star still dissapoints.

Carry on living in fantasy land if you want. One average performance on the back of two awful ones doesn't make it go away.

Southgate is someone I admire a lot but he is sticking with a winning team. No more can be read into it than that.

If I’m living in a fantasy land, I’m joining the likes of Gareth Southgate (and his staff), Gary Neville (one of the best English analysts on TV), David Beckham, Geoff Hurst, Rio Ferdinand who are all backing Sterling and said his performances have been better than critics suggest. The Croatia manager has identified Sterling as one of our ‘biggest threats’, so that makes two semi-finalist managers who are in fantasy land. What’s the alternative to Sterling? Vardy? A player I like, but he doesn’t dribble enough and should be used if we’re chasing a game. Rashford? Too raw atm. He’s not a the level that Mbappe is, for example. He doesn’t do what Sterling does when he dribbles the ball. Had he taken his chance v Belgium this could well be a different point to make.

If you admire Southgate, just trust his processes because all of his selections have been vindicated at this World Cup.

CCFC88 · Jul 9, 2018

CJ_covblaze said:
Should rephrase that. I make them favourites to do so and have ever since the group stage. That being said with how this tournament has gone you never know what’s going to happen next.

Not performing? The stuff Sterling does off the ball is invaluable. He’s stretched every defence he’s played against. Constantly being a pain in arse for the opposition. Also a good proportion of the time when he gets the ball, within seconds we’re about 30 yards further forward. We wouldn’t be in the Semis if it wasn’t for him. I’d take a guess that only Lingard and Henderson have covered more kilometres this tournament.

Agree with this, he's played a vital role but Gary "its coming home" Jones down the pub thinks he should be dropped cause he's not scoring. Ideally he would finish every chance that lands at his feet but his confidence in front of goal is clearly on its arse.

His movement drags back fours wider apart and from side to side, creating more space in the middle of the pitch for Lingard and Alli, and more on the opposite win for Trippier to get forward.

He reminds me a lot of what Ryan Kent did for our Mowbray side, it all went to the dogs when he left but people didn't rave about him because of his final ball.

covcity4life · Jul 9, 2018

nice to see educated fans are seeing what sterling brings to the team, leave it to the chavs to get on his back

ali was worse than sterling but a goal masks things for casual football fans who probably throwing beer in the air when we score.

and no that doesnt mean sterlings playing great, but sat was his best game yet and even when hes poor hes a a handful for defenders.

same 11 again for semi please

CCFC88 · Jul 9, 2018

The only change I would possibly make is Alli out for RLC as I think we run the risk of being exposed in CM with Modric Rakitic etc, I think they will be just as worried about what we can do going forward though so its set up to be a tactically intriguing game.

Happy with Southgate to stick with the same team though and I think he will, they all deserve their chance.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jul 9, 2018

Covstu said:
Don’t let that stop the sterling bashing!

People are bashing him for rational reasons. I think some are so angry at his critics they cannot process this.

Mucca Mad Boys said:
Some potentially good news, the likelihood of a team winning the next round after penalties is 25% when they’re ranked lower than their next opponent (power rankings not FIFA). Croatia have got a good midfield, so it can be a tough game, but I think two penalty shootout wins in a row will be two much for them. A lot of their players were struggling in that’s Russia game.

If I’m living in a fantasy land, I’m joining the likes of Gareth Southgate (and his staff), Gary Neville (one of the best English analysts on TV), David Beckham, Geoff Hurst, Rio Ferdinand who are all backing Sterling and said his performances have been better than critics suggest. The Croatia manager has identified Sterling as one of our ‘biggest threats’, so that makes two semi-finalist managers who are in fantasy land. What’s the alternative to Sterling? Vardy? A player I like, but he doesn’t dribble enough and should be used if we’re chasing a game. Rashford? Too raw atm. He’s not a the level that Mbappe is, for example. He doesn’t do what Sterling does when he dribbles the ball. Had he taken his chance v Belgium this could well be a different point to make.

If you admire Southgate, just trust his processes because all of his selections have been vindicated at this World Cup.

Southgate has done a great job and I was saying months ago that I thought he was a really good manager for us, even when the likes of CJ were getting on his back!

That doesn't mean he is perfect however. He gets most things right but the whole Sterling thing is a joke. We are now down to the 'his pace scares defenders' argument. It's the bottom of the barrel really, a bit like when someone get's caught cheating and says 'you made me do it'.

I was told before the tournament he would be a shining star and that I was wrong about him. Now the best thing we are hearing is 'his performances aren't as bad as some critics suggest'.

He could miss 7 open goals against Croatia but the critics will be 'looking for a scapegoat' when we lose 1-0 and it could never be his fault.

I hope we get to the final and he scores the winning goal, but at the moment I am sick to death of this pathetic love-in. He has been shit and I cannot see how anyone can try to deny that. It is infuriating and I'm worried it will cost us. I know Southgate won't change a winning team but Rashford deserves more than one strike, particularly as Sterling has had about 23.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jul 9, 2018

CCFC88 said:
Agree with this, he's played a vital role but Gary "its coming home" Jones down the pub thinks he should be dropped cause he's not scoring. Ideally he would finish every chance that lands at his feet but his confidence in front of goal is clearly on its arse.

His movement drags back fours wider apart and from side to side, creating more space in the middle of the pitch for Lingard and Alli, and more on the opposite win for Trippier to get forward.

He reminds me a lot of what Ryan Kent did for our Mowbray side, it all went to the dogs when he left but people didn't rave about him because of his final ball.

Kent was shite. People get blinded by a bit of pace. It is useless unless you use it.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jul 9, 2018

covcity4life said:
nice to see educated fans are seeing what sterling brings to the team, leave it to the chavs to get on his back

ali was worse than sterling but a goal masks things for casual football fans who probably throwing beer in the air when we score.

and no that doesnt mean sterlings playing great, but sat was his best game yet and even when hes poor hes a a handful for defenders.

same 11 again for semi please

Thank you for admitting Sterling is not playing great at least. Some on here seem to think he is player of the tournament.

For the record, Alli has been shit and rightly criticised for it. No one is arguing that. The difference is he was there to put the ball away when it counted.

Something our number 10 is incapable of.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jul 9, 2018

CJ_covblaze said:
Should rephrase that. I make them favourites to do so and have ever since the group stage. That being said with how this tournament has gone you never know what’s going to happen next.

Not performing? The stuff Sterling does off the ball is invaluable. He’s stretched every defence he’s played against. Constantly being a pain in arse for the opposition. Also a good proportion of the time when he gets the ball, within seconds we’re about 30 yards further forward. We wouldn’t be in the Semis if it wasn’t for him. I’d take a guess that only Lingard and Henderson have covered more kilometres this tournament.

We wouldn't be in the semi's if it wasn't for Sterling?

You need to lay off that Russian beer mate.

covcity4life · Jul 9, 2018

you cannot get to semi finals of world cup in spite of a outfield player every single game. hes not been as bad as some say whilst certainly not been very good either.

but thats why i would keep same 11 because the dynamic works, no point risking changing it

CCFC88 · Jul 9, 2018

I think I'd side on the judgement of Pep and Southgate as opposed to Earlsdon_Skyblue1 when it comes to what Sterling offers a football team.

CJ_covblaze · Jul 9, 2018

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
We wouldn't be in the semi's if it wasn't for Sterling?

You need to lay off that Russian beer mate.

Not having a go here. Sometimes you just cant see what a player does in a game unless you watch it live. The cameras only show so much. Look at Mcnulty last season. The headlines only mention his goals, not his work rate. He didn't stop running for 90 minutes every single week. We watched him play and saw what he could do without the ball at his feet. Those that live abroad only saw it on iFollow and are more likely to only talk about what he did on the ball not off it.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jul 9, 2018

CJ_covblaze said:
Not having a go here. Sometimes you just cant see what a player does in a game unless you watch it live. The cameras only show so much. Look at Mcnulty last season. The headlines only mention his goals, not his work rate. He didn't stop running for 90 minutes every single week. We watched him play and saw what he could do without the ball at his feet. Those that live abroad only saw it on iFollow and are more likely to only talk about what he did on the ball not off it.

I would say if anything watching it on tv means you tend to pay more attention and see the bigger picture. I'm a lot more focused than I am at a stadium to be honest.

He is very quick and no doubt has the skill, but you need more than that from one of your two strikers especially if there is little end product most times. If anything we are lucky it has not cost us so far. I said with McNulty he would come good whilst people were on his back because you could see how much he was working to make it happen. It was only a matter of time with him where I do not find this is the case with Sterling. I feel he makes one good run which is wasted, and a lot of people suddenly forget the last 3 which ended up with him losing the ball and try to paint that one run as something special.

Sweden was his best game, but he was still only very average. I don't think it is fair to try and make out like he was one of the best players when all the other hard work the rest of the team put in was almost wasted because he didn't do his job. I wouldn't be so against him coming on as a sub on the wing later on in games, I think he would be good in that role. To start as a second striker for me is the only thing that has pissed me off about Southgate. I just think it is a terrible decision and whilst we have been lucky to get away with it so far, may be what comes back to bite us at the crucial time.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jul 9, 2018

covcity4life said:
you cannot get to semi finals of world cup in spite of a outfield player every single game. hes not been as bad as some say whilst certainly not been very good either.

but thats why i would keep same 11 because the dynamic works, no point risking changing it

Thank you for being honest.

I know he won't change it and I can see why he won't change it as we've got to the semi-final. If he changed it and we lost he would get battered by the media. That said, as I said in an earlier post - Sterling is only keeping his place for that exact reason. He has done nothing to merit a start place in my opinion.

CCFC88 · Jul 9, 2018

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I would say if anything watching it on tv means you tend to pay more attention and see the bigger picture. I'm a lot more focused than I am at a stadium to be honest.
QUOTE]

You're more focused on things that you literally cant see whilst watching it on tv?

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jul 9, 2018

CCFC88 said:
I think I'd side on the judgement of Pep and Southgate as opposed to Earlsdon_Skyblue1 when it comes to what Sterling offers a football team.

Maybe it would be better to form your own opinion?

He obviously has a lot of good attributes, there is no denying that. I want to see him do well for the sake of the England team. I was however very skeptical because he has consistently been poor for England. We also have other players who deserve to be given a go in his place now.

I didn't think starting him, especially as a number 10 was a good idea. So far he has proved me right in the sense that he has been pretty much the worst player in the squad overall this tournament. We are now going into these games where taking your chances will be the difference between winning and losing. This is not Sweden or Panama. I worry because I think we have ridden our luck at times by having him in the team.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jul 9, 2018

CCFC88 said:
You're more focused on things that you literally cant see whilst watching it on tv?

What are you talking about?

Yes sometimes the cameras don't show everything, but for the most part you get a much bigger picture. At matches there are distractions all over the place.

It is another really weak argument to say 'Sterling is really good, but only when the camera isn't on him so you cannot see it'.

It is getting more desperate.

CCFC88 · Jul 9, 2018

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Maybe it would be better to form your own opinion?

He obviously has a lot of good attributes, there is no denying that. I want to see him do well for the sake of the England team. I was however very skeptical because he has consistently been poor for England. We also have other players who deserve to be given a go in his place now.

I didn't think starting him, especially as a number 10 was a good idea. So far he has proved me right in the sense that he has been pretty much the worst player in the squad overall this tournament. We are now going into these games where taking your chances will be the difference between winning and losing. This is not Sweden or Panama. I worry because I think we have ridden our luck at times by having him in the team.

So you think the opinion you have formed is more reliable and worthy than the manager that's picked him week in week out in one of the best Prem sides of all time and the England manager who's taken the national side to its first semi in 28 years?

Having you're own opinion is great, and encouraged, shouting it at people over and over again on internet forums doesn't make it correct.

CCFC88 · Jul 9, 2018

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
What are you talking about?

Yes sometimes the cameras don't show everything, but for the most part you get a much bigger picture. At matches there are distractions all over the place.

It is another really weak argument to say 'Sterling is really good, but only when the camera isn't on him so you cannot see it'.

It is getting more desperate.

I don't think you can use quotation marks around a statement that nobody has said and you've just made up.

CJs point being that he's based his opinions on Sterling's performances from watching the whole game in a stadium, seeing things we don't see on the TV, as has Southgate and the rest of the coaching staff and pretty much every pundit/ex pro out in Russia, hence why Sterling is starting every game on TV.

Gary from the pub aka you, is forming your opinion on what is being shown to you by the host broadcaster.

hill83 · Jul 9, 2018

Definitely the first time I’ve ever heard the opinion that you get a better idea of what’s going on during a match watching it on TV rather than being there.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jul 9, 2018

CCFC88 said:
So you think the opinion you have formed is more reliable and worthy than the manager that's picked him week in week out in one of the best Prem sides of all time and the England manager who's taken the national side to its first semi in 28 years?

Having you're own opinion is great, and encouraged, shouting it at people over and over again on internet forums doesn't make it correct.

Everyone makes mistakes. I think picking Sterling is a mistake. Certainly so far he has done nothing to prove me wrong. I will be delighted when he does, but so far still nothing.

It's not about shouting at people on the internet, it's about standing here waiting for a player to do something to prove me wrong, him failing, and people still trying to tell me he is amazing. I have literally seen zero evidence.

The best counter arguments I have heard is 'he makes good runs' and 'you can't see his hard work on the tv'. It's nonsense.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jul 9, 2018

CCFC88 said:
I don't think you can use quotation marks around a statement that nobody has said and you've just made up.

CJs point being that he's based his opinions on Sterling's performances from watching the whole game in a stadium, seeing things we don't see on the TV, as has Southgate and the rest of the coaching staff and pretty much every pundit/ex pro out in Russia, hence why Sterling is starting every game on TV.

Gary from the pub aka you, is forming your opinion on what is being shown to you by the host broadcaster.

I'm forming my opinion based on watching him play for England for 6 and a half years. I put my cards down at the start of the tournament and I am still waiting to be proved wrong.

I'll be really happy if he scores should we get to the final, and more than happy for everyone on here to call me a c**t in the process. I have just seen zero evidence that he offers enough to the team.

CCFC88 · Jul 9, 2018

hill83 said:
Definitely the first time I’ve ever heard the opinion that you get a better idea of what’s going on during a match watching it on TV rather than being there.

Its clueless dribble from somebody trying to deflect away from the huge hole he's dug himself.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jul 9, 2018

hill83 said:
Definitely the first time I’ve ever heard the opinion that you get a better idea of what’s going on during a match watching it on TV rather than being there.

Jog on Hill. You're too busy throwing pints in the air to know what's going on at a live match!

hill83 · Jul 9, 2018

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Jog on Hill. You're too busy throwing pints in the air to know what's going on at a live match!

And you are windmilling

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jul 9, 2018

CCFC88 said:
Its clueless dribble from somebody trying to deflect away from the huge hole he's dug himself.

How is it clueless? I've said he isn't very good. People told me he would be this tournament, so I've waited.

He still isn't very good, and all people can say is he makes good runs. Ignoring sitter miss after miss and also having zero end product after making said good run.

The only people that are being clueless are the ones in complete denial that so far he has largely been a burden on the team in this tournament.

CCFC88 · Jul 9, 2018

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I'm forming my opinion based on watching him play for England for 6 and a half years. I put my cards down at the start of the tournament and I am still waiting to be proved wrong.

I'll be really happy if he scores should we get to the final, and more than happy for everyone on here to call me a c**t in the process. I have just seen zero evidence that he offers enough to the team.

A toast to Raheem Sterling, the crucial cog who embodies a selfless England | Richard Williams

Raheem Sterling is not perfect but make no mistake, Croatia would love to see him rested

Give credit where it is due, Raheem puts in some sterling work for England | IOL Sport

Raheem Sterling was England’s most creative player against Sweden

All written by people who get paid to write about football, but yea, just cause you haven't been impressed makes you right.

But its ok because you've said "I'll be really happy if he scores should we get to the final" to cover your back.

wingy · Jul 9, 2018

I'm going to join ESB here as it's a lonely field he's entered.
Apart from dragging a few ageing defenders around, he's missed sitters and loses possession frequently..
He has no idea what he's doing or what to do.
He needs to sort his head then his feet might sort themselves out.

CCFC88 · Jul 9, 2018

wingy said:
I'm going to join ESB here as it's a lonely field he's entered.
Apart from dragging a few ageing defenders around, he's missed sitters and loses possession frequently..
He has no idea what he's doing or what to do.
He needs to sort his head then his feet might sort themselves out.

Why do you think he hasn't been dropped?

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jul 9, 2018

CCFC88 said:
Why do you think he hasn't been dropped?

Largely because you don't change a winning team regardless of personnel.

There isn't really a lot more to read into it than that.

wingy · Jul 9, 2018

CCFC88 said:
Why do you think he hasn't been dropped?

I don't really care tbh, there must be a paucity on the replacement front,.
Play Lingard more advanced or Rashford are the options IMO.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jul 9, 2018

CCFC88 said:
A toast to Raheem Sterling, the crucial cog who embodies a selfless England | Richard Williams

Raheem Sterling is not perfect but make no mistake, Croatia would love to see him rested

Give credit where it is due, Raheem puts in some sterling work for England | IOL Sport

Raheem Sterling was England’s most creative player against Sweden

All written by people who get paid to write about football, but yea, just cause you haven't been impressed makes you right.

But its ok because you've said "I'll be really happy if he scores should we get to the final" to cover your back.

You clearly are more biased in favour of him than anything else you cannot be even slightly rational about this. I've said I want him to do well because that is genuinely what I want. I am not going to pretend he has been decent when he as in fact been pretty useless. What is the point in that?

Those people get paid to write about football but have largely agreed with what I have said regarding his flaws. The only difference is they are acting like some of his fans by saying his distinctly average work goes unnoticed.

The World Cup Thread (18 Viewers)

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