The World Is Drugged Up ? (2 Viewers)

bringbackrattles · Jul 17, 2019

Listening this morning to a discussion on the radio about how drugs and the problems with it etc, has now become so widespread it is everywhere across the UK and the world. Where I live so many are drugged up or pissed daily and all ages too, that it seems to be normal behaviour.
The radio phone said it has gotten out of hand and will get worse. We used to go to the pub to get pissed, as that seemed "normal" behaviour, but now they just do it openly on the streets. Do you think it's normal now, and that's just life these days then ?

shmmeee · Jul 17, 2019

No:

bringbackrattles · Jul 17, 2019

shmmeee said:
No: On the programme they said stats by the government are inaccurate, and not to be believed. And living round here I believe them !

shmmeee · Jul 17, 2019

Why would they suddenly get less and less accurate?

If they’re inaccurate they’ll always have been inaccurate.

You’re just seeing localised fluctuations, all data points from various sources show a reduction in drug and alcohol use over the last 10-20 years.

bringbackrattles · Jul 17, 2019

shmmeee said:
Why would they suddenly get less and less accurate?

If they’re inaccurate they’ll always have been inaccurate.

You’re just seeing localised fluctuations, all data points from various sources show a reduction in drug and alcohol use over the last 10-20 years.

So everything's all fine and dandy according to you and your stats?

Gazolba · Jul 17, 2019

I take four different drugs every day - on my doctor's advice.
Two of them, if I stop taking them, I could drop dead.
Also, lots of people don't realise that alcohol is a drug and it's quite legal (over a certain age) and probably causes more damage that all the other drugs combined.

fellatio_Martinez · Jul 17, 2019

Gazolba said:
I take four different drugs every day - on my doctor's advice.
Two of them, if I stop taking them, I could drop dead.
Also, lots of people don't realise that alcohol is a drug and it's quite legal (over a certain age) and probably causes more damage that all the other drugs combined.

Nonsense.

Look at countries like Italy, Spain and France where they drink alcohol with every meal and even give their kids watered down wine. They all have better life expectancies than countries like England, Scotland or the US where alcohol is commonly used for binge drinking. That's where the harm lies. Too much of anything is bad for you.

Smoking weed or snorting coke is far more harmful and prescribed medication will also cause more harm than good in the long run.

skybluetony176 · Jul 17, 2019

fellatio_Martinez said:
Nonsense.

Look at countries like Italy, Spain and France where they drink alcohol with every meal and even give their kids watered down wine. They all have better life expectancies than countries like England, Scotland or the US where alcohol is commonly used for binge drinking. That's where the harm lies. Too much of anything is bad for you.

Smoking weed or snorting coke is far more harmful and prescribed medication will also cause more harm than good in the long run.

Italy, Spain and France all have a very different culture and attitude to drinking alcohol to us. You ask anybody who works in treating substance abuse and they’ll all tell you that alcohol does the most damage. According to a substance abuse worker I know very well if alcohol was made illegal they’d have to make it’s own classification of class A + such is the damage it does.

Sick Boy · Jul 17, 2019

fellatio_Martinez said:
Nonsense.

Look at countries like Italy, Spain and France where they drink alcohol with every meal and even give their kids watered down wine. They all have better life expectancies than countries like England, Scotland or the US where alcohol is commonly used for binge drinking. That's where the harm lies. Too much of anything is bad for you.

Smoking weed or snorting coke is far more harmful and prescribed medication will also cause more harm than good in the long run.

The way the British consume alcohol is far more harmful to the individual and society as a whole than smoking a bit of weed. Alcohol is much more harmful than a lot of illegal drugs as well and would most certainly be classified as class a if it were discovered now.

It’s a bit of a generalisation that Italians drink wine with every meal. Go to the south and you’ll find that a lot very rarely drink and can make a 200ml beer last for an hour. Whereas in the north where I live alcohol consumption is more common and so is binge drinking/alcoholism. It’s still not on the same level as the UK but it is still there.

shmmeee · Jul 17, 2019

fellatio_Martinez said:
Nonsense.

Look at countries like Italy, Spain and France where they drink alcohol with every meal and even give their kids watered down wine. They all have better life expectancies than countries like England, Scotland or the US where alcohol is commonly used for binge drinking. That's where the harm lies. Too much of anything is bad for you.

Smoking weed or snorting coke is far more harmful and prescribed medication will also cause more harm than good in the long run.

Cannabis is nowhere near as harmful as alcohol.

shmmeee · Jul 17, 2019

bringbackrattles said:
So everything's all fine and dandy according to you and your stats?

Pretty much.

People think the world is falling apart because we have 24/7 media pushing all the bad stuff down our throats. But in reality on most measures the world is getting better.

Here: Why The World Is Getting Better And Why Hardly Anyone Knows It

Apart from wealth inequality in first word nations and climate change. Those are fucked.

fernandopartridge · Jul 17, 2019

skybluetony176 said:
Italy, Spain and France all have a very different culture and attitude to drinking alcohol to us. You ask anybody who works in treating substance abuse and they’ll all tell you that alcohol does the most damage. According to a substance abuse worker I know very well if alcohol was made illegal they’d have to make it’s own classification of class A + such is the damage it does.

They don't work 40 hours a week with increasingly long commutes. I definitely feel a compulsion to drink more after a long day than if i have got home at a reasonable time.

Grappa · Jul 17, 2019

Sick Boy · Jul 17, 2019

fernandopartridge said:
They don't work 40 hours a week with increasingly long commutes. I definitely feel a compulsion to drink more after a long day than if i have got home at a reasonable time.

Most Italian companies do 9-6 and it’s common to work Saturday mornings, luckily I don’t. The compulsion to drink is a mental state, I know because I argue with the mrs every other day when I get home.

I think it’s a lot to do with mentality and differences in the cultures, personally. I think we actually tolerate and put up with a lot more but let it build up inside and need to find some kind of a release.

fernandopartridge · Jul 17, 2019

Sick Boy said:
Most Italian companies do 9-6 and it’s common to work Saturday mornings, luckily I don’t. The compulsion to drink is a mental state, I know because I argue with the mrs every other day when I get home.

I am surprised by that, do they commute much?

Sick Boy · Jul 17, 2019

fernandopartridge said:
I am surprised by that, do they commute much?

In my experience, yes. Mostly by car and on our equivalent of A roads. I have a 15 minute commute by car and am considered lucky where I am.

One thing they do that we don’t do as much is talk. They can talk about anything and everything, including this sort of stuff.

fellatio_Martinez · Jul 17, 2019

skybluetony176 said:
Italy, Spain and France all have a very different culture and attitude to drinking alcohol to us. You ask anybody who works in treating substance abuse and they’ll all tell you that alcohol does the most damage. According to a substance abuse worker I know very well if alcohol was made illegal they’d have to make it’s own classification of class A + such is the damage it does.

Health wise, heroin, crack cocaine and meth are far worse for you. I wasn't referring to the social impacts but alcohol is legal so obviously it's going to have a more widespread impact.

Alcohol has many health benefits when drank in moderation. To label it as some kind of poison is wrong.

Sick Boy said:
smoking a bit of weed.

This is the typical thing a stoner would say. It's hardly ever "a bit" with cannabis users. I've know so many over the course of my life and it consumes them. Sure they don't get violent or end up in A&E on a Saturday night but they're just as dependent on a substance and there's the health risks too

"A recent analysis using data from three large studies in Australia and New Zealand found that adolescents who used marijuana regularly were significantly less likely than their non-using peers to finish high school or obtain a degree. They also had a much higher chance of developing dependence, using other drugs, and attempting suicide.55 Several studies have also linked heavy marijuana use to lower income, greater welfare dependence, unemployment, criminal behavior, and lower life satisfaction"

Houchens Head · Jul 17, 2019

Grappa said:

Reminded me of another tattoo I saw once! :emoji_grin:...…..
.

Sick Boy · Jul 18, 2019

fellatio_Martinez said:
Health wise, heroin, crack cocaine and meth are far worse for you. I wasn't referring to the social impacts but alcohol is legal so obviously it's going to have a more widespread impact.

Alcohol has many health benefits when drank in moderation. To label it as some kind of poison is wrong.

This is the typical thing a stoner would say. It's hardly ever "a bit" with cannabis users. I've know so many over the course of my life and it consumes them. Sure they don't get violent or end up in A&E on a Saturday night but they're just as dependent on a substance and there's the health risks too

"A recent analysis using data from three large studies in Australia and New Zealand found that adolescents who used marijuana regularly were significantly less likely than their non-using peers to finish high school or obtain a degree. They also had a much higher chance of developing dependence, using other drugs, and attempting suicide.55 Several studies have also linked heavy marijuana use to lower income, greater welfare dependence, unemployment, criminal behavior, and lower life satisfaction"

The truth is that most cannabis smokers are not actually addicted and most of them don’t go on and become addicts.

Again, you’re making a generalisation to back up your point based upon the extremes. It is possible for people to use cannabis in moderation rather than going onto become full blown addicts.

Off the top of my head I think it’s something like 1in 10 who try it go on to have problems. I’d say that most people who drink alcohol in the UK are addicted to a certain extent and would have problems giving up alcohol tomorrow if it suddenly became illegal.

If you’re going to claim alcohol has health benefits, then surely you have to say the same about cannabis? The recent epilepsy cases show that there’s a conversation to be had there. The UK is well behind other countries on this.

I don’t actually smoke it by the way, I did when I was younger, but so did a lot of people and managed to avoid a life of addiction and unemployment.

Astute · Jul 18, 2019

fellatio_Martinez said:
Nonsense.

Look at countries like Italy, Spain and France where they drink alcohol with every meal and even give their kids watered down wine. They all have better life expectancies than countries like England, Scotland or the US where alcohol is commonly used for binge drinking. That's where the harm lies. Too much of anything is bad for you.

Smoking weed or snorting coke is far more harmful and prescribed medication will also cause more harm than good in the long run.

There is a difference between having a glass or two of wine with a meal and drinking a bottle of wine ir two for 'pleasure'.

If you see pissed up people in France or Spain there is a good chance they are Brits.

skybluetony176 · Jul 18, 2019

fellatio_Martinez said:
Health wise, heroin, crack cocaine and meth are far worse for you. I wasn't referring to the social impacts but alcohol is legal so obviously it's going to have a more widespread impact.

Have a look at the graph schmmeee has put up. I think you’re wrong. I’m not trying to sound like a dick but I think you’re paying too much attention to market research and not enough to scientific research.

Astute · Jul 18, 2019

Sick Boy said:
The truth is that most cannabis smokers are not actually addicted and most of them don’t go on and become addicts.

Again, you’re making a generalisation to back up your point based upon the extremes. It is possible for people to use cannabis in moderation rather than going onto become full blown addicts.

Off the top of my head I think it’s something like 1in 10 who try it go on to have problems. I’d say that most people who drink alcohol in the UK are addicted to a certain extent and would have problems giving up alcohol tomorrow if it suddenly became illegal.

If you’re going to claim alcohol has health benefits, then surely you have to say the same about cannabis? The recent epilepsy cases show that there’s a conversation to be had there. The UK is well behind other countries on this.

I don’t actually smoke it by the way, I did when I was younger, but so did a lot of people and managed to avoid a life of addiction and unemployment.

So true.

First smoked weed at about 13. From 17 smoked it every day. Had a period of about 10 years where I smoked every day even in times of severe shortage. It wasn't to get wrecked. I just enjoyed a spliff. Then at 29 I decided to stop. I have had a smoke since then, but more of a social thing because of who I am with. And not touched any at all for years.

How many people that have had alcohol for so many years every day could stop so easily?

Astute · Jul 18, 2019

skybluetony176 said:
Have a look at the graph schmmeee has put up. I think you’re wrong. I’m trying to sound like a dick but I think you’re paying too much attention to market research and not enough to scientific research.

What a shock. Tony trying to sound like a dick :smuggrin:

bringbackrattles · Jul 18, 2019

I wish my son would quit cannabis. He's tried but keeps going back to It, he won't admit he's addicted but he is. He was living with me not long back, he knows I dislike the stuff, but to keep the peace let him go outside to smoke.He stunk of it and he goes from articulate to half asleep mumbler. But he knows I was a heavy drinker when he was a kid, so can retaliate with sarcy comments if I get irritated with him. Other than that we get on fine !

fellatio_Martinez · Jul 18, 2019

Sick Boy said:
The truth is that most cannabis smokers are not actually addicted and most of them don’t go on and become addicts.

Again, you’re making a generalisation to back up your point based upon the extremes. It is possible for people to use cannabis in moderation rather than going onto become full blown addicts.

Your first paragraph was a full blown generalisation!

I'm in no way against cannabis use and will partake in the odd puff (ooh matron) when it's going spare but I'd never buy it. I don't see the fuss. It just makes me talk more shit than I usually do.

I just don't agree that alcohol is evil or as addictive as some make out. Culturally the UK has an alcohol problem, no doubt. I never denied that but many countries don't have the same issues with booze which would indicate that it's a deeply ingrained social problem.

Deleted member 5849 · Jul 18, 2019

fellatio_Martinez said:
It just makes me talk more shit than I usually do.

My God, how is that even possible?!?

(Smiley winky thing)

Houchens Head · Jul 18, 2019

I used to enjoy the odd joint now and again. A small deal would last me months, only having a spliff every other weekend or so. It just made me laugh and head for the fridge for munchies! I loved the stuff, but after all my heart attacks I gave up smoking which also meant my spliffs. Haven't missed either (normal fags or weed). Mind you, I do drink too much!

bringbackrattles · Jul 18, 2019

Houchens Head said:
I used to enjoy the odd joint now and again. A small deal would last me months, only having a spliff every other weekend or so. It just made me laugh and head for the fridge for munchies! I loved the stuff, but after all my heart attacks I gave up smoking which also meant my spliffs. Haven't missed either (normal fags or weed). Mind you, I do drink too much!

We're from that era that went to the pub a lot. Mobile phones were not around or in their infancy, so we'd keep in contact by meeting up in the boozers. When I lived in Walsgrave my mates who were brothers lived on the way to the Acorn pub, so I'd knock their door and we'd walk up to the pub just as They were opening most nights, it was a routine we kept for ages.
I doubt if many do that these days ?

clint van damme · Jul 18, 2019

I think there is too much concentrating on the effects of individual drugs, ( whether legal or illegal), rather than looking at why people need to get fucked up in particular, certain nations like ourselves, who seem to be particularly prone to it.

fellatio_Martinez · Jul 18, 2019

clint van damme said:
I think there is too much concentrating on the effects of individual drugs, ( whether legal or illegal), rather than looking at why people need to get fucked up in particular, certain nations like ourselves, who seem to be particularly prone to it.

Yeah I think so too.

Demonising any particular stimulant or banning things doesn't solve the issues. I personally do over drink on occasion but I just love a good piss up. I'm not waking up at 6am and cracking open a special brew. My girlfriend does that for me.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jul 18, 2019

fellatio_Martinez said:
Health wise, heroin, crack cocaine and meth are far worse for you. I wasn't referring to the social impacts but alcohol is legal so obviously it's going to have a more widespread impact.

Alcohol has many health benefits when drank in moderation. To label it as some kind of poison is wrong.

Alcohol is actually as a poison. A drop of pure alcohol would kill you if ingested. We only drink it in very diluted doses, and even then if manages to have health implications both short and long term. You know the feeling of being drunk? That's the poison taking effect on your system. The hangover - that's your system trying to repair the damage.

The health benefits aren't from the alcohol - it's from the minerals and vitamins present in the fruit/barley//etc and water. You'd get the same benefits if you didn't let the stuff ferment and produce alcohol.

As has been said, how many of the people could give up alcohol if it were suddenly banned? Prohibition showed that even very law abiding citizens were willing to break the law and contribute to organised crime to get a drink - that sounds like the actions of an addict to me.

By the way, I'm not calling for a ban on alcohol (I'm actually more of a leaning towards legalisation and heavy taxation to pay for the problems) but it is a very dangerous and harmful drug. If alcohol were 'discovered' now, the drug agencies would never legalise it given the current rules. It was only really due to it having less harmful bacteria etc than water that led to it being the historical liquid of choice because people didn't understand it was the boiling of the water that got rid of the nasties. Plus the beer in those days was much much weaker than todays.

Houchens Head · Jul 18, 2019

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
A drop of pure alcohol would kill you if ingested.

Sorry mate. Pure nonsense. I did a year long British Institute of Innkeepers course many years ago. During that course, apart from learning absolutely everything there is to know about running a pub, there also included a trip to a brewery and one evening was spent producing 100% pure alcohol from a bottle of wine. Long process, but in the end we produced about an egg-cup full. Everyone was invited to try it, and while most turned it down, I tried a sip. It was super strong, but it didn't kill me! That was in the late 1980's.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jul 18, 2019

It was something I was told by a hospital lab worker. They said it would burn probably through your oesophagus, but if it didn't it would either cause horrific swelling or internal bleeding and you'd choke to death.

Maybe they were being a bit melodramatic with the 'drop' but it's kept in very tight control up there with very strong corrosives.

Nick · Jul 18, 2019

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
It was something I was told by a hospital lab worker. They said it would burn probably through your oesophagus, but if it didn't it would either cause horrific swelling or internal bleeding and you'd choke to death.

Maybe they were being a bit melodramatic with the 'drop' but it's kept in very tight control up there with very strong corrosives.

Have they ever tried a double absynthe and a double sambuca set on fire?

fellatio_Martinez · Jul 18, 2019

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Alcohol is actually as a poison. A drop of pure alcohol would kill you if ingested. We only drink it in very diluted doses, and even then if manages to have health implications both short and long term. You know the feeling of being drunk? That's the poison taking effect on your system. The hangover - that's your system trying to repair the damage.

The health benefits aren't from the alcohol - it's from the minerals and vitamins present in the fruit/barley//etc and water. You'd get the same benefits if you didn't let the stuff ferment and produce alcohol.

As has been said, how many of the people could give up alcohol if it were suddenly banned? Prohibition showed that even very law abiding citizens were willing to break the law and contribute to organised crime to get a drink - that sounds like the actions of an addict to me.

By the way, I'm not calling for a ban on alcohol (I'm actually more of a leaning towards legalisation and heavy taxation to pay for the problems) but it is a very dangerous and harmful drug. If alcohol were 'discovered' now, the drug agencies would never legalise it given the current rules. It was only really due to it having less harmful bacteria etc than water that led to it being the historical liquid of choice because people didn't understand it was the boiling of the water that got rid of the nasties. Plus the beer in those days was much much weaker than todays.

Who drinks pure alcohol? That's a moot point.

Alcoholic drinks have been around for over 9,000 years. It's helped shape cultures and progressed the arts amongst other things.

It's not suddenly something that needs to be banished or demonised because certain sections of the public can't control themselves.

Also, over taxing booze hasn't been much of a success in Scotland.

Minimum unit pricing: it’s pish

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