this Says it all for me. (1 Viewer)

Fergusons_Beard · Oct 8, 2014

“The revenue from these facilities, combined with Wasps existing revenues, will result in Wasps immediately becoming the highest turnover rugby club in the Aviva Premiership.”

THIS IS WHY-CCFC had to own their own stadium.

No playing Second bastard fiddle to egg chasers in our own backyard!

Too late for all of the anti-SISU brigade to realise what actual was going on all the time!

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Oct 8, 2014

Urhm, surely they've achieved that without 'owning' the stadium?

Deleted member 4232 · Oct 8, 2014

Exciting times ahead! Jumping about the success train right now!

italiahorse · Oct 8, 2014

It could have been us if it wasn't for ????

Otis · Oct 8, 2014

Fergusons_Beard said:
“The revenue from these facilities, combined with Wasps existing revenues, will result in Wasps immediately becoming the highest turnover rugby club in the Aviva Premiership.”

THIS IS WHY-CCFC had to own their own stadium.

No playing Second bastard fiddle to egg chasers in our own backyard!

Too late for all of the anti-SISU brigade to realise what actual was going on all the time!

Not about the anti-Sisu brigade though, Fergie.

Think most of us want our club to own our stadium, or at least in part.

All sides culpable in this. Sisu have been totally crap owners and the council should never have sold out to a franchise.

Can argue all day long who is the shittiest, but now I think we just have to get on with what we've got, dust ourselves down and hope we can have a successful future of sorts here at the Ricoh ..... err sorry, the JLR.

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Oct 8, 2014

italiahorse said:
It could have been us if it wasn't for ????

Agreed. There's nothing wrong with the statement per se. Just should have been from Fisher's lips and pertaining to another sport. Such is CCFC's loss

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Oct 8, 2014

Otis said:
All sides culpable in this. Sisu have been totally crap owners and the council should never have sold out to a franchise.

Without being funny dear chap; they have a fiduciary responsibility to the 97% of Coventry's rate payers who don't go to games, an anchor tenant who's broken the lease and is looking at building anew - and the prospect of a great white elephant in an area of the city they're desperate to renovate. With that as backdrop, up rock a Premiership rugby team (ignore the morality of the franchise for a moment), looking to pay cash and make the venue one of Europe's premiere rugby venues - all 20 miles from where the game began. What did you expect them to do?

oldskyblue58 · Oct 8, 2014

for at least 5 years since 2007 SISU sat unchallenged in pole position to do a deal on ownership........... they ......no one else ......... chose a path of confrontation, legal absurdity, rejected any notion of partnership and put the needs of SISU way before the needs of CCFC & fans

Yes it could all have been CCFC's, indeed that was the intention from 2003 onwards, unfortunately successive boards and owners at CCFC had no real notion of partnership and building let alone a sense of community or empathy with fans. Yes other parties played their part, sometimes ego's personalities and pig headed stubbornness played their part.

But the biggest reason CCFC do not and look likely not to own even part of the Ricoh is the owners and directors CCFC has had the gross misfortune to endure

Otis · Oct 8, 2014

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Without being funny dear chap; they have a fiduciary responsibility to the 97% of Coventry's rate payers who don't go to games, an anchor tenant who's broken the lease and is looking at building anew - and the prospect of a great white elephant in an area of the city they're desperate to renovate. With that as backdrop, up rock a Premiership rugby team (ignore the morality of the franchise for a moment), looking to pay cash and make the venue one of Europe's premiere rugby venues - all 20 miles from where the game began. What did you expect them to do?

After moaning about us going to Northampton and talking of the injustice of it all, I wouldn't have expected them to allow a team from 80 odd miles away move in as a franshise.

Godiva · Oct 8, 2014

italiahorse said:
It could have been us if it wasn't for ????

The sisu-out-campaign?
The NOPM campaign?
All the ACL lovers?
All the CCC lovers?

No?

Hoffman?
Elliott?

No?

I give up then.

Godiva · Oct 8, 2014

oldskyblue58 said:
for at least 5 years since 2007 SISU sat unchallenged in pole position to do a deal on ownership........... they ......no one else ......... chose a path of confrontation, legal absurdity, rejected any notion of partnership and put the needs of SISU way before the needs of CCFC & fans

Yes it could all have been CCFC's, indeed that was the intention from 2003 onwards, unfortunately successive boards and owners at CCFC had no real notion of partnership and building let alone a sense of community or empathy with fans. Yes other parties played their part, sometimes ego's personalities and pig headed stubbornness played their part.

But the biggest reason CCFC do not and look likely not to own even part of the Ricoh is the owners and directors CCFC has had the gross misfortune to endure

Even so - should ccc/higgs not have gone to the club and asked if they would buy ACL for conditions similar to what Wasps got?

AndreasB · Oct 8, 2014

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Without being funny dear chap; they have a fiduciary responsibility to the 97% of Coventry's rate payers who don't go to games, an anchor tenant who's broken the lease and is looking at building anew - and the prospect of a great white elephant in an area of the city they're desperate to renovate. With that as backdrop, up rock a Premiership rugby team (ignore the morality of the franchise for a moment), looking to pay cash and make the venue one of Europe's premiere rugby venues - all 20 miles from where the game began. What did you expect them to do?

Ok Ive ignored the morality of the franchise for a moment. Oh Yeah. The Franchise. Perhaps the people of Wasps dont love their club as much as our fans do so its less unfair.

Bottom line is that its a shitty thing to do but actually will be of benefit to Coventry so should we be less bothered?

Agree the Council have to divest themselves of the farce of trying to run a sporting venue. no wonder it was unanimous.

Jack Griffin · Oct 8, 2014

SISU can continue to swim against the tide or make the best of the shit their aggressive negotiating tactics have dropped them and the club in.

I sense another volte-face on the horizon.. at worst another 4 years of bloodsucking Or attempts at litigation followed by protracted negotiations for a sale.

Oh for heavens sake won't Joy's investors wake up and make her see some sense!

Hobo · Oct 8, 2014

Fergusons_Beard said:
“The revenue from these facilities, combined with Wasps existing revenues, will result in Wasps immediately becoming the highest turnover rugby club in the Aviva Premiership.”

THIS IS WHY-CCFC had to own their own stadium.

No playing Second bastard fiddle to egg chasers in our own backyard!

Too late for all of the anti-SISU brigade to realise what actual was going on all the time!

It it has always been about the way SISU conducted themselves. This proves there was always a deal to be had. SISU cocked it up and have left us where we are.

fernandopartridge · Oct 8, 2014

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Without being funny dear chap; they have a fiduciary responsibility to the 97% of Coventry's rate payers who don't go to games, an anchor tenant who's broken the lease and is looking at building anew - and the prospect of a great white elephant in an area of the city they're desperate to renovate. With that as backdrop, up rock a Premiership rugby team (ignore the morality of the franchise for a moment), looking to pay cash and make the venue one of Europe's premiere rugby venues - all 20 miles from where the game began. What did you expect them to do?

Do you not think they should have at least ensured the loan was repaid in full before granting a 250 year lease? What happens if Wasps fold?

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Oct 8, 2014

AndreasB said:
Ok Ive ignored the morality of the franchise for a moment. Oh Yeah. The Franchise. Perhaps the people of Wasps dont love their club as much as our fans do so its less unfair.

Bottom line is that its a shitty thing to do but actually will be of benefit to Coventry so should we be less bothered?

Agree the Council have to divest themselves of the farce of trying to run a sporting venue. no wonder it was unanimous.

You have to view it within the context of their responsibility to their taxpayers. That means they moan when things such as the Sixfields move happen. And take the Wasps opportunity with both hands when offered. You may not like it. I may not like it. But they'll take the deal that best serves the local community. 'Shitty thing to do'? Maybe. But would turning it down and being left with a disaster be even 'shittier' for the 97% of tax-paying Coventrians who don't care enough to watch football regularly?

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Oct 8, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
Do you not think they should have at least ensured the loan was repaid in full before granting a 250 year lease? What happens if Wasps fold?

I haven't seen the contract, so I can't comment. I agree, it would - on face value - appear a better solution

oldskyblue58 · Oct 8, 2014

Godiva - you are a businessman, say you have a client that repeatedly over a long period of time in public and private says to you they don't want your product, that is better for them to make their own...... then someone turns up enthusiastic for what you have, willing to pay an acceptable price ....... at what point do you stop including the first client?

Yes in a perfect world then everyone should have known everything, offers should have been sent round etc .............. but life isn't like that. SISU made it absolutely clear they were building their own stadium, repeatedly, often and over many months - they were no longer interested in the Ricoh they said.

If ccc/higgs should have approached SISU then isn't it up to SISU to make an offer of substance. I doubt because of NDA's they could disclose details of the Wasp offer. We know they said on many occasions to SISU make an offer but the only thing on offer was shares in ACL...... it was quite clear to all but SISU it seems

Now they have been bitten by it ....... I have sympathy for CCFC & fans but none whatsoever for SISU or the directors charged with safeguarding the well being of our club, they have failed miserably so far in that task

Fergusons_Beard · Oct 8, 2014

Godiva said:
Even so - should ccc/higgs not have gone to the club and asked if they would buy ACL for conditions similar to what Wasps got?

This.

Whatever the past CCC had a moral obligation to offer same deal to CCFC first.

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Oct 8, 2014

oldskyblue58 said:
Godiva - you are a businessman, say you have a client that repeatedly over a long period of time in public and private says to you they don't want your product, that is better for them to make their own...... then someone turns up enthusiastic for what you have, willing to pay an acceptable price ....... at what point do you stop including the first client?

Yes in a perfect world then everyone should have known everything, offers should have been sent round etc .............. but life isn't like that. SISU made it absolutely clear they were building their own stadium, repeatedly, often and over many months - they were no longer interested in the Ricoh they said.

If ccc/higgs should have approached SISU then isn't it up to SISU to make an offer of substance. I doubt because of NDA's they could disclose details of the Wasp offer. We know they said on many occasions to SISU make an offer but the only thing on offer was shares in ACL...... it was quite clear to all but SISU it seems

Now they have been bitten by it ....... I have sympathy for CCFC & fans but none whatsoever for SISU or the directors charged with safeguarding the well being of our club, they have failed miserably so far in that task

Agreed. Back in January 2013; I was harping on about what happened if SISU's tactics didn't work and a rugby club came in. At the time, I cited Northampton; and I was greeted with hoots of delight at my folly, and derision from all sides. Primarily from Grendel. Now we are where we are. And still some folk won't face up to those most culpable for putting us where we are

Fergusons_Beard · Oct 8, 2014

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
You have to view it within the context of their responsibility to their taxpayers. That means they moan when things such as the Sixfields move happen. And take the Wasps opportunity with both hands when offered. You may not like it. I may not like it. But they'll take the deal that best serves the local community. 'Shitty thing to do'? Maybe. But would turning it down and being left with a disaster be even 'shittier' for the 97% of tax-paying Coventrians who don't care enough to watch football regularly?

MMM-honestly what bollocks-how on earth is selling the Ricoh to a London based rugby club best serving the community?

1.it shits on the local rugby club
2.it shits on the local football club
3.hmmm

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 8, 2014

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Agreed. Back in January 2013; I was harping on about what happened if SISU's tactics didn't work and a rugby club came in. At the time, I cited Northampton; and I was greeted with hoots of delight at my folly, and derision from all sides. Primarily from Grendel. Now we are where we are. And still some folk won't face up to those most culpable for putting us where we are

Indeed.

CCC and the Higgs Trust still escape scot free in many quarters.

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Oct 8, 2014

Fergusons_Beard said:
This.

Whatever the past CCC had a moral obligation to offer same deal to CCFC first.

What? So, they have a firm offer from a serious business. So they should put them on hold whilst they ride on golden unicorns to the blancmange-castle of 'shape-shifter' Fisher and see what the soothsayer says this time?

Fergusons_Beard · Oct 8, 2014

Hobo said:
It it has always been about the way SISU conducted themselves. This proves there was always a deal to be had. SISU cocked it up and have left us where we are.

Not denying SISU God awful tactics but The only think this proves is that the leaders at CCC Were ready to stich up SISU Like kippers.

What CCC should never have forgotten is that unfortunately SISU are CCFC. By stiching up SISU They've shafted CCFC.

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Oct 8, 2014

Fergusons_Beard said:
MMM-honestly what bollocks-how on earth is selling the Ricoh to a London based rugby club best serving the community?

1.it shits on the local rugby club
2.it shits on the local football club
3.hmmm

There are 20 million reasons why it does. Each with a Queen's head on. Faced with an anchor tenant - and you have to face up to this - who constantly asserts they've moving out, they've taken the best deal on offer

Godiva · Oct 8, 2014

oldskyblue58 said:
Godiva - you are a businessman, say you have a client that repeatedly over a long period of time in public and private says to you they don't want your product, that is better for them to make their own...... then someone turns up enthusiastic for what you have, willing to pay an acceptable price ....... at what point do you stop including the first client?

Yes in a perfect world then everyone should have known everything, offers should have been sent round etc .............. but life isn't like that. SISU made it absolutely clear they were building their own stadium, repeatedly, often and over many months - they were no longer interested in the Ricoh they said.

If ccc/higgs should have approached SISU then isn't it up to SISU to make an offer of substance. I doubt because of NDA's they could disclose details of the Wasp offer. We know they said on many occasions to SISU make an offer but the only thing on offer was shares in ACL...... it was quite clear to all but SISU it seems

Now they have been bitten by it ....... I have sympathy for CCFC & fans but none whatsoever for SISU or the directors charged with safeguarding the well being of our club, they have failed miserably so far in that task

Yes, but the council is not elected to run a business, maximizing profit etc. They are elected to run a city and do what is best for the community.
Selling ACL to an out-of-town sports club looking to franchise at the cost of the already-in-town similar sports club and at the cost of the football club the stadium was purposely build for is not really doing what is best for the community. Is it?

They didn't have to break any NDA to approach the club, they could simply say 'We have decide to sell all of ACL on conditions so-and-so.

Fergusons_Beard · Oct 8, 2014

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
What? So, they have a firm offer from a serious business. So they should put them on hold whilst they ride on golden unicorns to the blancmange-castle of 'shape-shifter' Fisher and see what the soothsayer says this time?

Yes of bloody course-as elected representatives of Coventry and its businesses CCC have a moral obligation to serve the benefits of its constituency.

If this means waiting for a local bid-then so be it!

Answer this-which community benefits more in the long term if the Ricoh Is sold to CCFC and not to WASPS?

RFC · Oct 8, 2014

Otis said:
After moaning about us going to Northampton and talking of the injustice of it all, I wouldn't have expected them to allow a team from 80 odd miles away move in as a franshise.

CCC leader & councillors speak with fork tongue, from this lot typical usual "double standards".

Only applies "one-way'!

torchomatic · Oct 8, 2014

Toot! Toot! All aboard the Success Train! Next stop the Theatre of Dreams. Toot! Toot!

That Guy said:
Exciting times ahead! Jumping about the success train right now!

RFC · Oct 8, 2014

Hobo said:
It it has always been about the way SISU conducted themselves. This proves there was always a deal to be had. SISU cocked it up and have left us where we are.

CCC/ACL not at all responsible then!

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Oct 8, 2014

Fergusons_Beard said:
Yes of bloody course-as elected representatives of Coventry and its businesses CCC have a moral obligation to serve the benefits of its constituency.

If this means waiting for a local bid-then so be it!

Answer this-which community benefits more in the long term if the Ricoh Is sold to CCFC and not to WASPS?

They should wait again for Fisher and his 'local bid'? Have you been in a deep sleep for, say, two years?

torchomatic · Oct 8, 2014

Nope. Nothing to do with them.

RFC said:
CCC/ACL not at all responsible then!

oldskyblue58 · Oct 8, 2014

"what part of we are prepared to listen to any sensible business proposal" and "the unencumbered freehold is not for sale" did Joy and her friends not understand then? I take that to mean the freehold is not for sale but come make an offer on the rest (ie ACL). Hell SISU even had control of the right to make first offer on 50% of ACL. Fact is they made it clear they only wanted unencumbered freehold, that ACL was no interest to them at all. That was never nor is on the table. It is no use crying because someone else saw the potential. I don't want Wasps here but all this could have been CCFC's, but it isn't because ccc/aehc didn't offer it but because SISU have played silly buggers with our club

shmmeee · Oct 8, 2014

Godiva said:
Yes, but the council is not elected to run a business, maximizing profit etc. They are elected to run a city and do what is best for the community.
Selling ACL to an out-of-town sports club looking to franchise at the cost of the already-in-town similar sports club and at the cost of the football club the stadium was purposely build for is not really doing what is best for the community. Is it?

They didn't have to break any NDA to approach the club, they could simply say 'We have decide to sell all of ACL on conditions so-and-so.

Nonsense, how much is securing the Ricoh as a viable sports arena worth? How much will be brought into the local economy with top level rugby? Be pissed off that it's a franchise team, but let's not pretend this will be bad for the city as a whole.

Only people to blame here are the original anchor tenants who have taken their ball and fucked off and keep stating they don't want the smelly stadium anyway.

I suppose if Sisu do build the FisherBowl in Bedworth CCC should've kept waiting just in case they changed their minds and wanted to come home later?

Ridiculous.

Nonleagueherewecome · Oct 8, 2014

Godiva said:
Yes, but the council is not elected to run a business, maximizing profit etc. They are elected to run a city and do what is best for the community.
Selling ACL to an out-of-town sports club looking to franchise at the cost of the already-in-town similar sports club and at the cost of the football club the stadium was purposely build for is not really doing what is best for the community. Is it?

They didn't have to break any NDA to approach the club, they could simply say 'We have decide to sell all of ACL on conditions so-and-so.

The football club that repeatedly said that it was not interested and was building another ground. Jesus wept, his beloved SISU get screwed and hard-nosed businessman Godiva Gecko suddenly comes over all naive!

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