Thorn out - now!! (1 Viewer)

nobody else could do any better apparently

Macca said:

nobody else could do any better apparently

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Anyone could do better

Another thread on the same subject oh what joy :facepalm:

I wouldn't bother they all say the same old shit.

ONCE AGAIN...SAME CRAP!! :facepalm:
SISU WILL NOT PAY FOR NEW MANAGER, SO WHAT IS THE POINT OF PRETENDING AND WISHING FOR SOMEONE TO COME IN

Opening Post in a blind fury demanding Thorn be removed, and then in the same breath admit you have no idea as to who to replace him with. I honestly dont see the point of replacing him with anybody yet, there is no investment coming into the club, they have cut their cloth accordingly and it will be a miracle if we stay up with this team under anybody's leadership, so lets get some stability at some level in the club. Allow Carsley to continue learning, allow Rioch further time to mould our academy (which is now producing players) Its the only way in my eyes for the club to survive and prosper.

Thorn, Carsley and Rioch all seem to be singing from the same hymnsheet, Carsley is bridging the gap between the 1st team and youth team, he is in charge for the reserve games and takes training sessions for the academy. However if we go down then we must not sell everybody once again and bring in a new bunch of kids, we need to keep the likes of Bell, Platt, Baker as in that league they will be vital and we will start the season as one of the favourites.

I agree Thorn should go if only to try something different. Don't think it will work, but we may as well take a chance it will work....

The real answer is for SISU to go as most people know but we need to start clutching at straws now.

What have we got to lose? We keep thorn, we go down. The worse that can happen with a new boss is we will go down!

Never been one to call for a managers head but I must admit something has to change - whether it's the manager or the coaches???????

Oh and the so called owners of cause.

mcullen said:

We can't go on losing games. I know it's not entirely his fault but the league doesn't lie. We need to get someone in to get us some points on the board. Dunno who though - any ideas?

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The league may not lie but what is the cause?

Can you categorically prove that Andy Thorn is not getting the best out if his players?

Would any other manager do any better?

The fact is we have a league one standard team and therefore that is where we will end up. Simple as.

Oh lets give up and change nothing get relegated then moan we got relegated.
Sisu's fault they should have sacked Thorn.
Lets hope we lose every game from now until the end of the season because were relegated anyway, if we lose every game uptil the end of the season at least we will be in the history books for something, the worst team ever.
Sorry for the go but the negativity and defeated outlook really does bug me sometimes, it is not to late but if nothing changes then what is the point of coventry playing on a match day at all, just petition the FA to see if we can be relegated now and save everyones time.

If we had the money to sack Thorn and get some other sacrificial scapegoat in then I would rather we had spent that money on getting an experienced loan player in - managers can only do so much but when you have kids and crap to play with you are going to get results like we have. Thorn is far from perfect but the blame lies with the owners for listening to the fans and appointing Thorn in the first place - wonder how many of those calling for his head were demanding his appointment last season? Fickle? Football fans? Never.

I wholly supported the appointment of Thorn. I also once bought a car that I thought would be good but it wasn't.

Yeah, lets sack yet another manager, and then sack another manager, and sack another manager. I mean, hell - that always works, right?

skybluesteve76 said:

What have we got to lose? We keep thorn, we go down. The worse that can happen with a new boss is we will go down!

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I think that's the point. Unless SISU are planning to sell up anytime soon....

I still think, and I think it was Torchy who posed this question, that Steve Harrison has something to answer for. He's been a coach for longer than Andy Thorn, so surely he should be advising him where work needs to be done? In which case, does a change need to happen here? If he is offering advice and it's being ignored by Thorn, then surely this is where the change has to come.

In all honesty, I can't make up my mind about Thorn. I liked how we did things tail end of last season. It was good football. Was. It's not now, and that is a culmination of any number of reasons, from SISU, through to Thorn himself, and his inexperience. Does he get the best out of them? Well as we're not on the training ground or in the changing rooms, we can't say for absolute sure. We can only go on what we see on the pitch, and on that basis, something somewhere needs to change.

It was Paxman who originally said he thought Harrison was to blame. To be fair, he said it long before people had turned on Thorn. But again, we don't really know-pooing in cups aside, he has a fantastic reputation in the game as a coach.

Here's a theory-maybe the side that finished 18th and had it's best 4 players stripped from it just isn't good enough?

I get the feeling we need to start mass producing little white flags

But thorn is not a manager.
So we just carry on accepting this? so why want sisu out (I do by the way) because we accept defeat, why protest against them?
Why because we want a change, we want better for our club
Why are people just accepting that thorn is doing the best job he can with what he has got when results speak for themselves.
Ok another manager goes but come on what is there to lose, surely no-one can say that they are happy with this.
I believe these players are good enough to get out of this, if they had any fight in them, but it's gone the belief has gone.
Getting players in is all well and good but who would want to join a team that can not win a game and at this rate will be relegated unless something changes.
As I have said many times.
The board can not sack themselves.
The players can not be sacked.
Only 1 can be sacked and any other time the fans would be baying for his head but people feel sorry for him, well sorry he took the job on and he is not producing the goods.
Who to replace him with, anyone who is a manager even just until the end off the season but something has to happen otherwise as I said earlier why bother supporting CCFC if people are accepting relegation, so lets accept second or third best and just roll over.

No we need to be producing SISU OUT flags as that is where the real culprits are - OK Thorn may not be the greatest manager but he did Ok when he had some better players at the tail end of last season

But if the manager is not responsible for relegation, why should he take the blame? I think it'd be just like Derby when they got rid of Davies: they never stood a chance of survival that season. The board rolled the dice and got in Jewell-who promptly spent a load of money and actually produced worse results. Any hope of survival-by believing in the manager who knew the squad the best-went out of the window, and that manager was doing a good job, it turned out. It can get worse.

Macca said:

I get the feeling we need to start mass producing little white flags

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I'll buy one macca I surrender, as long as there fire proof and certified as safe to wave without causing harm to someone else, got to be on top of health and safety.

The current situation reminds me of the Premier League (and old Division 1) teams - never the best but played together as a team, were motivated and gave their all every week. Always (apart from the one fateful season) punched above our weight and survived - suprising teams along the way (beating Liverpool etc). Bookies favourites every year to go down but defying the odds season in season out.

In reality I can't see much different (OK lower league and inferior players). If the team we have gave 100% for each other every game, showed the passion for the shirt and had the motivation of the teams we had in those days I think we would be higher up the league than we are.

Who's to blame for the lack of above I'll leave open to debate - is it the management, is it the coaching, etc?

ashbyjan said:

OK Thorn may not be the greatest manager but he did Ok when he had some better players at the tail end of last season

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That's why I'm split about Thorn. He had a good run with a better squad at the end of last season, but he has lost a lot of that team. And I think, Prima Facie, it's apparent that there is a gulf in quality between the two squads. But surely you do have to start asking now if he really is getting the best out of this current squad? I know a man can only do so much with the tools at his disposal, and you can't build a castle out of a sandpit. But the devil's advocate in me is asking the question can he do any better, or has he given it everything he's got? I think if Thorn had the money behind him, He'd have been able to do a better job as I think there is potential there. But in a situation like this, we may just need something to go with that potential to guide him, and suggest things to him that perhaps only a more experienced head might be able to see. Of course, it's just my opinion. And once again, it's speculation. I think the circumstances mean that the finger can be pointed in a number of directions than just the manager.

Thing is NLHWC sisu have nothing to do with the playing side of the club as we are all aware they have not got a clue, other than funding for players.
Someone advised on giving contract extensions to certain players who? I don't know but would guess AT.
Why should he not take the blame for the actual results on the pitch ie: motivation, tactics team chioce, etc.
The players at any club as we all know should take resposibility but as AT said a while ago these players got others the sack in a round about way, something is wrong in the dressing room, what I do not know but player power rules we know that, but something has to happen.

Well to be quite honest I'm not sure I want to keep shelling out on following an operation that from owners through to fans has given up. Seems a bit daft to me

I get the feeling a lot of those contracts were to do with the board trying to increase the clubs sale value. Even if they weren't, the argument that has been made is that he's trying to hold onto what ever he's got, as they'll be replaced with even worse players-or not replaced at all!

Ichan - I fail to see how you can say that SISU have nothing to do with the playing side - they are the ones who failed to secure new deals for players at the end of the season, although I think Westy was never ever staying, they are the ones who gave the manager no budget for replacements, they are the ones who sold Turner, they are the ones who for some bizarre financial reason gave new contracts to some deadwood players. Yes they don't pick the team or the tactics but they are a major reason for AT trying to do his job with a sun standard squad.

Thing is if we get relegated these players we have now will not be able to cope with division 1 (hate that division 2 was better) although does not sound as bad saying division 1.
There is no guarentee we will even get near the play offs if we go down and I fear we will just spend another 10 years of crap achieving nothing until were relegated again, I really don't want that, and thats why something has to change and change quick because the people who are in charge will not go until they want to regardless of protests, that is not saying don't protest but I am sure you know what I mean, these people are hard nosed business people who do not get worried about what people think of them.

It has been said before, on this thread and elsewhere, that this 'Thorn to stay / be sacked' debate has zero real relevance. Thorn was promoted from Chief Scout to his first managerial position and given the post for a year (as far as I'm aware). I would be shocked to learn that there are more than one or two managers in this League who are on less money. The only real factor is that SISU would have be willing to pay to sack him and then pay someone else into the job (possibly including compensation to their club). We were shocked to see they had scratched together the cash for a one month loan. Do you think they would generate the funds for this nameless manager that appears to be the solution? I suspect the only option for SISU would be Carsley... do they pay enough attention to the football at Coventry to be even thinking this through? No, money and money alone talks to them. And so this is completely irrelevant... Thorn is here to stay as he is unlikely to walk. Our League position suggests we are going down. Whether he is the man to save us or not is moot... the point is that he is our man, that there are more deserving architects of our downfall, and that any such debate on here is just generally people sounding off at their displeasure in seeing the team they support go down without a whimper (which, if the League ended tomorrow, is exactly our predicament).

I definitely do not subscribe to the 'Thorn out - now' stance, nor any 'he is the best thing at our club' stance (although this doesn't actually appear to be the stance of any on here). He is here, we still try to play a degree of football but remain very disappointed with our lot. I think SISU have dictated this lot, but they are in place - just like Thorn - 'til further notice. This season will probably see the lowest ever League finish in my lifetime. I'm not looking forward to that. But I'll renew my season ticket next year. I'll cheer on any decent play by any player or manager at Coventry. And I won't be advocating any 'sack the manager' response until I am at the end of my tether with the style of play and decisions made. For me, Andy Thorn has still some way to go, relegation notwithstanding. Whether that makes me more defeatest than realistic, I don't know.

ashbyjan said:

Ichan - I fail to see how you can say that SISU have nothing to do with the playing side - they are the ones who failed to secure new deals for players at the end of the season, although I think Westy was never ever staying, they are the ones who gave the manager no budget for replacements, they are the ones who sold Turner, they are the ones who for some bizarre financial reason gave new contracts to some deadwood players. Yes they don't pick the team or the tactics but they are a major reason for AT trying to do his job with a sun standard squad.

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Ashbyjan
With all due respect I did say other than buying players, as for turner he only played a few games last season and before that people were saying he's crap, dread when the ball goes near him etc.
How do you know sisu gave contracts to deadwood players without AT's input, he must have had some input as sisu do not give contracts to players, they would not have a clue who is worth ex amount of money if sold or how good they are at football (my opinion on it anyway.
Sub standard players I do not beleive this, otherwise why was there an uproar when thomas went to liverpool (ok only a kid but if good enough old enough), macca knows he can play better than he is we know that, as can others in the team, clingan etc.
These players are just as good as those teams around us and I beleive they are good enough to get out of this mess but they just don't care anymore for some reason.

I believe that the contracts were given to the players irrespective of their footballing ability, simply to increase the asset value of the club. I don't think AT had anything or very little input into the decision. I am sure it was his decision to let Turner go but only because he needed a striker and the only way to fund it was to let someone go and we had a surplus of centre halves. Turner was head and shoulders our best defender until his injury and will go on to play in the Prem either with Cardiff or someone else. The uproar over Thomas was mass anti-SISU hysteria protest from people who had never even heard of Thomas let alone seen him play. Substandard players yes: Bell - simply not good enough, McSheff - not good enough Baker - too lightweight Platt - 1st Div player who's first touch is awful and his second is usually a tackle, Deegan and McDonald not been seen enough to be judged yet, ROD - not good enough to play for Nuneaton, McPake - constantly injured, Keough, Wood, Juke, Cameron, Clingan, Cranie are good enough. The rest are kids who are learning their trade. A decent team would blood them one or two at a time for short bursts, due to SISU we have had to build a team around them.

I'll agree to dis agree ashbyjan.
As I am sure you as well as myself and others have been over this hundreds of times and will continue and I don't think 1 party will persuade the other party thats whats so great about opinions as long as they stay on a non attacking level. (would use a shake hand smiley but there is not one)