Thorn Out (2 Viewers)

rob9872 · Oct 3, 2011

Even David Cameron wouldn't have cut them faster than this season. The problem has been the contracts that were too many and too large for sub-standard players over a number of seasons mismanagement. Many of those have ended or are now soon due to. That will have a huge bearing on the figure needed for genuine breakeven but breakeven is no longer enough since they need to recoup a debt and they can only achieve that by selling players as they are our only assets. However once you've sold them there is nowhere else to go other than down and then down again. We don't even have a budget to compete and the only way they will genuinely recoup their money is to achieve promotion which has never seemed further away. Yes we needed cuts but there seems no plan or strategy other than get back what you can and to hell with it.

Astute · Oct 3, 2011

The budget would have also been made with the consideration of higher gates. Gates are down. Less income=lower budget. The gates are down for different reasons. Some people will not be going because of SISU in charge. Lots of people will not be going because they only go when we are winning. Lots more can't afford to go at the moment. When we start winning the gates will go up. Then the budget will go up. Then we will be able to afford more players. Then we will have a better chance of winning games.

Covstu · Oct 3, 2011

Thorn has been setup to fail in the current regime, he has a poor side and trying to make them play attractive, technical football which i am unsure whether any of them can! I do not think he is the world's greatest manager by any stretch of the imagination, it was clear that he was a short term appointment for this season regardless of where we end up in the league. SISU would not spend on an accomplished manager and lets face it, with the current setup it would make absolutely no difference.

Otis · Oct 3, 2011

As I said already, the bloke is a sitting duck. Feel very sorry for AT.

Macca · Oct 3, 2011

TommyAtkins said:
A lot of clubs chop and change their manager.

In the past, we have appointed Coleman, Dowie, Adams, Reid and Boothroyd - all of whom can claim to have had a decent CV. In fact, most of them have had clubs promoted from the Championship.

Thorn is doing the best he can.

Should we lose Thorn, who in all seriousness will want the job?

More importantly, we can't afford to sack another manager

"SISU In!"

point slightly missed. I too see absolutely no point in making a change. I am saying that because a large amount of people are blaming SISU for everything that happens them AT does not seem responsible in anyway for anything. He could switch to 1-2-7 at 1-0 up with 2 minutes to go and it would be SISU's fault.

Disclaimer: To save half a dozen rabid posts and a lot of peoples typing fingers this isn't a pro sisu post

Astute · Oct 3, 2011

Macca said:
Disclaimer: To save half a dozen rabid posts and a lot of peoples typing fingers this isn't a pro sisu post

So sad but so true

skybluesteve76 · Oct 3, 2011

TommyAtkins said:
For most of last season, Marlon King was an abject failure. He failed to score goals, disrupted a team that was doing well under Boothroyd and damaged the reputation of the Sky Blues.

King then reneged on a contract offer, which Thorn said he handed to him personally.

Very few clubs have a 20-goal-a-season striker. What we need is a team, rather than reliance on an individual

Fantastic point mate!

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 3, 2011

Thorn is not the answer... and this is why

4 wins from 21 matches. Very poor return

After hearing reports from people there Saturday for the first time the team weren’t together.

He sounded a fed up manager which is surely bad for confidence.

The Barnsley team Saturday were similar to ours in terms of no investment, playing youngsters and they beat us comfortably with a proven manager.

His team selections are becoming suspect. We pay 400k for Cody and plays 2 games and hasn’t played since. Surely he needs match practice.

1 win all season after games with only 7 goals and that includes 2 games where we scored 2 so we’ve failed to score in half our matches.

Barnsley had a proven manager and that’s what you need to get you out of trouble. Not an inexperience. I feel sorry for Thorn but he is not what we need at present.

Voice_of_Reason · Oct 3, 2011

I like Andy Thorn, got the team playing pretty football -- but that's about it. Where the "Crazy Gang" spirit from his days at Wimbledon ? That Wimbledon team were brutes to say the least. Remember Vinnie Jones ? They went in hard, chased every ball and tackled every tackle with passion. I feel that AT lacks tactical ability and a lot of the fault has to lay with Harrison as Coach. The players might like At, but he's supposed to be a Manager, not one of the boys. The team lacks the ability to get the ball to the strikers, and that has to be down to the Manager and Coach.

Otis · Oct 3, 2011

They get the ball to the strikers alright, it's just that there is no-one going up to support them and there is a block area of about 20 yards of emptiness between the midfield and the front two.

TheHellion · Oct 3, 2011

Sorry, but I cannot agree with wanting Thorn out. Over the last ten years, we have gone through more than enough managers. Too much change, little stability and even less money. A manager is only as good as what he has at his disposal. And with the squad we have at our disposal at the minute, I think any number of managers would struggle to get any better out of it. We've tried to bring in an experienced manager before, lest we forget the consequences of that almost got us relegated. Now, if we can't afford to buy or loan players, how are we expected to pay off yet another manager, when there are probably at least 2 that we are still paying off?

If anybody wants an experienced manager, then there are two scenarios to present. We tried it before under Peter Reid, a supposedly experienced manager with a name, and played some of the most dire football I've ever seen in my life, and if it hadn't been for beating Derby 6-2 at Highfield Road, we probably would already have been down then. Secondly, an experienced name in football is going to require some pretty good funds to secure his services. We have none. How does anybody expect that an experienced name in football would come to a club that cannot provide funds to match his vision, let alone his salary?

Now regarding this interview Thorn has given. Can anyone truly say they expect him to come out and act as if all is fine and rosy in the Sky Blue garden? Let's face it. He's in a lose/lose situation. The man has taken on a job that is, at the moment, the most poisoned chalice in football (apart from the England job).

oldskyblue58 · Oct 3, 2011

We are in a scrap for survival ...... trouble is I dont see the team and manager scrapping. Pretty football is great if it puts the other team under pressure around their box not ours. We dont hurt other teams by the style of football we play infact we give them time to organise and defend against us because we are so slow. We dont get in the faces of the other teams..... the reason Deagan has stood out last two games isnt that he has been particularly skilfull it is because for once we have a player in our midfield that gets at the opposition, the only other player that roughs up the other team is Juke. So I dont see the desire from the players but you cant leave AT out this, he sets up the team he tells them how he wants to play. Think the fans could hold on to more hope if the team at least got stuck in as a team rather than chased shadows and fell over like dying swans!!

sky_blue_up_north · Oct 3, 2011

TheHellion said:
Sorry, but I cannot agree with wanting Thorn out. Over the last ten years, we have gone through more than enough managers. Too much change, little stability and even less money. A manager is only as good as what he has at his disposal. And with the squad we have at our disposal at the minute, I think any number of managers would struggle to get any better out of it. We've tried to bring in an experienced manager before, lest we forget the consequences of that almost got us relegated. Now, if we can't afford to buy or loan players, how are we expected to pay off yet another manager, when there are probably at least 2 that we are still paying off?

If anybody wants an experienced manager, then there are two scenarios to present. We tried it before under Peter Reid, a supposedly experienced manager with a name, and played some of the most dire football I've ever seen in my life, and if it hadn't been for beating Derby 6-2 at Highfield Road, we probably would already have been down then. Secondly, an experienced name in football is going to require some pretty good funds to secure his services. We have none. How does anybody expect that an experienced name in football would come to a club that cannot provide funds to match his vision, let alone his salary?

Now regarding this interview Thorn has given. Can anyone truly say they expect him to come out and act as if all is fine and rosy in the Sky Blue garden? Let's face it. He's in a lose/lose situation. The man has taken on a job that is, at the moment, the most poisoned chalice in football (apart from the England job).

Totally agree with this statement. What is point is getting rid of AT, I would like to see what he could do with an half decent budget. If he had 5 Million to spend I reckon he would take right up the league, possible play offs. 5 Million would bring some real class in at this level. Right now we are going down, and its nothing to do with Thorn

Macca · Oct 3, 2011

Of course its something to do with Thorn. He's the manager. If its nothing to do with the manager lets not have one at all, save more money!

It is mostly to do with lack of investment but AT is not getting the most out of what he has got. If the team is really that bad then why does everyone harp on about "asset stripping" in January.

This is not to say that I want him sacked, that is pointless, but lets not pretend he is faultless

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 3, 2011

TheHellion said:
Sorry, but I cannot agree with wanting Thorn out. Over the last ten years, we have gone through more than enough managers. Too much change, little stability and even less money. A manager is only as good as what he has at his disposal. And with the squad we have at our disposal at the minute, I think any number of managers would struggle to get any better out of it. We've tried to bring in an experienced manager before, lest we forget the consequences of that almost got us relegated. Now, if we can't afford to buy or loan players, how are we expected to pay off yet another manager, when there are probably at least 2 that we are still paying off?

If anybody wants an experienced manager, then there are two scenarios to present. We tried it before under Peter Reid, a supposedly experienced manager with a name, and played some of the most dire football I've ever seen in my life, and if it hadn't been for beating Derby 6-2 at Highfield Road, we probably would already have been down then. Secondly, an experienced name in football is going to require some pretty good funds to secure his services. We have none. How does anybody expect that an experienced name in football would come to a club that cannot provide funds to match his vision, let alone his salary?

Now regarding this interview Thorn has given. Can anyone truly say they expect him to come out and act as if all is fine and rosy in the Sky Blue garden? Let's face it. He's in a lose/lose situation. The man has taken on a job that is, at the moment, the most poisoned chalice in football (apart from the England job).

Look at Barnsley, same budget (Nothing basically) young players, injuries and they look world beaters Saturday. On paper we had a better team and we were outclassed. There manager is not a big name but proven. Nobody wants a peter Reid but we need a manager who knows the leagues well. Hill Saturday got the best out of his players. Thorn didn’t. There lie’s the difference between Safety and relegation.
Before we know it, by xmas we could be 10 points of safety and screwed. Something needs to be sooner rather than later.

singers_pore · Oct 3, 2011

TommyAtkins said:
All that is happening is that Coventry City is returning to the old Third Division, from where we came. Perhaps that is our true, sustainable level and the years 67-01, will just be seen as an aberration.

If you read the club's early history you will see that we were losing money hand over fist in the old 3rd division, and that was when we owned our own ground. The only time we reached the breakeven point was after D. Robbins invested his own money into the club, resulting in revenues going up enough to cover players wages.

I see no reason to believe that we will break even in League 1 or League 2, especially as we don't own our ground.

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 3, 2011

sky_blue_up_north said:
Totally agree with this statement. What is point is getting rid of AT, I would like to see what he could do with an half decent budget. If he had 5 Million to spend I reckon he would take right up the league, possible play offs. 5 Million would bring some real class in at this level. Right now we are going down, and its nothing to do with Thorn

That's why Thorn is not the man for the job. He would be a good manager with money but he hasn’t. Like i said above, look at Barnsley Manager, he knows the leagues and knows what he needs to get out of his players. Thorn doesn’t seem to know what gets the best from his team. After 21 games you thought he should have an idea.

Lloyd · Oct 3, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
That's why Thorn is not the man for the job. He would be a good manager with money but he hasn’t. Like i said above, look at Barnsley Manager, he knows the leagues and knows what he needs to get out of his players. Thorn doesn’t seem to know what gets the best from his team. After 21 games you thought he should have an idea.

you cant teach a 3-legged dog to grow a 4th one, same goes for making a bottom half championship team in to a promotion chasing team.

the only way we will stay up is if we get a transfer budget of 2 million in january and we bring in some proper experience.

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 3, 2011

Lloyd said:
you cant teach a 3-legged dog to grow a 4th one, same goes for making a bottom half championship team in to a promotion chasing team.

the only way we will stay up is if we get a transfer budget of 2 million in january and we bring in some proper experience.

So Barnsley are the exception?

I know we need money BUT if we haven’t then he has to work within the squad we have. On paper our starting 11 is stronger than many.

rob9872 · Oct 3, 2011

If only they'd let us play on paper then instead of that horrible grass thing

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 3, 2011

rob9872 said:
If only they'd let us play on paper then instead of that horrible grass thing

Not bad for a monday that Rob, you obviously werent on the pop last night

stupot07 · Oct 3, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
So Barnsley are the exception?

I know we need money BUT if we haven’t then he has to work within the squad we have. On paper our starting 11 is stronger than many.

Are they really?? - i think you need to take off those sky blue glasses and look again!

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 3, 2011

stupot07 said:
Are they really?? - i think you need to take off those sky blue glasses and look again!

Player for player i personally would take ours all day long for the exception of steele and drinkwater (Loanne)

Andy Gray is there main striker. If Cov had signed him they'd be uproar. But the difference is they played as a team, we didnt.

musicmanskyblue · Oct 3, 2011

I think the reality of the situation is.. Thorn is probably as good a manager as we are a team.. Both lacking experience and real quality.. Who could we get to take his place anyway?... Harrison???.. Carsley???.. I think they are the only choices we realistically have..

Nonleagueherewecome · Oct 3, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
Player for player i personally would take ours all day long for the exception of steele and drinkwater (Loanne)

Andy Gray is there main striker. If Cov had signed him they'd be uproar. But the difference is they played as a team, we didnt.

You don't think morale, confidence and inexperience are a factor? Burnout because we've been forced to play 4-5 players nearly every game who at most should be playing 50-70%? Lack of decent competition(or ANY for some positions) for places?

Seriously, all the AT-out brigade would make me cry if you didn't make me laugh. Absolutely clueless if you think changing manager is solution. Thorn didn't stand a chance with this budget, and he is now starting to provide a nice little buffer zone between the fans and SISU. I am firmly in the "Shankly, Busby or Fergie would not keep us up" camp!

Andy sounded gutted because he cares, loves this bunch of players, is a genuine and honest bloke, and is working his guts out to somehow create a miracle of 100-1 type unlikelihood. Some of us ~"rabidly" said he was getting nothing to work with, and it was a recipie for disaster. I judge him on last season, when he worked a near miracle-to expect him to do it again with a drastically weakened squad is just pie in the sky. Possibly magic mushroom pie at that.

stupot07 · Oct 3, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
Player for player i personally would take ours all day long for the exception of steele and drinkwater (Loanne)

Andy Gray is there main striker. If Cov had signed him they'd be uproar. But the difference is they played as a team, we didnt.

You originally said that our starting 11 is stronger than many. That implied many other teams not just Barnsley. I would also add to Steele and Drinkwater that McEverly and Butterfield would probably also get in our side, and hassell is ok in a richard keogh sort of way. Some of our players may be technically better some of there players but the complete lack of pace, particularly in the final third means we lack dynamism needed to hurt teams.

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 3, 2011

stupot07 said:
You originally said that our starting 11 is stronger than many. That implied many other teams not just Barnsley. I would also add to Steele and Drinkwater that McEverly and Butterfield would probably also get in our side, and hassell is ok in a richard keogh sort of way. Some of our players may be technically better some of there players but the complete lack of pace, particularly in the final third means we lack dynamism needed to hurt teams.

The championship is a poor league, you can see that by how tight the league is. Apart from West Ham and Leicester most teams have average starting 11. Difference is they have bigger squads. King came on for Blues to replace Zigic. Although Birmingham are an average team overall.

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 3, 2011

Nonleagueherewecome said:
You don't think morale, confidence and inexperience are a factor? Burnout because we've been forced to play 4-5 players nearly every game who at most should be playing 50-70%? Lack of decent competition(or ANY for some positions) for places?

Seriously, all the AT-out brigade would make me cry if you didn't make me laugh. Absolutely clueless if you think changing manager is solution. Thorn didn't stand a chance with this budget, and he is now starting to provide a nice little buffer zone between the fans and SISU. I am firmly in the "Shankly, Busby or Fergie would not keep us up" camp!

Andy sounded gutted because he cares, loves this bunch of players, is a genuine and honest bloke, and is working his guts out to somehow create a miracle of 100-1 type unlikelihood. Some of us ~"rabidly" said he was getting nothing to work with, and it was a recipie for disaster. I judge him on last season, when he worked a near miracle-to expect him to do it again with a drastically weakened squad is just pie in the sky. Possibly magic mushroom pie at that.

Morale and confidence is where the manager comes into play. Is it not?

stupot07 · Oct 3, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
The championship is a poor league, you can see that by how tight the league is. Apart from West Ham and Leicester most teams have average starting 11. Difference is they have bigger squads. King came on for Blues to replace Zigic. Although Birmingham are an average team overall.

Yes most teams only have an average starting 11, but we have a poor starting 11, in fact only Juke would get anywhere near the birmingham starting 11
imo. I would argue that teams like Ipswich, Blackpool, Forest, Southampton, Birmingham and Burnley also have decent starting 11's,

I have excepted that we are a poor side of poor players trying to play good football. Doesn't mean I'm happy that we're are poor it's just a fact.

You'll Never Beat McPake · Oct 3, 2011

I am not sure that you can blame Andy Thorne for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory at C Palace (post 90 mins); or draws similarly against Reading (missed pen 90+ mins) and Blackpool (equaliser 90+ mins). These were caused by player errors, loss of concentration, in-experience, etc. Thorne will be working with the players (all of whom he has known for a number of years) to get them focussed until the final whistle. He has the respect of the players and I think most of the fans. We are definately playing the most attractive football I have seen over the last 5-6 seasons and I believe that it will only take a couple of ugly wins to get us back to mid-table safety.

To replace him now will most likely result in relegation as any new manager will never get to know the players in time to make a change.

Andy Thorne's SBA

brinner · Oct 3, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
That's why Thorn is not the man for the job. He would be a good manager with money but he hasn’t. Like i said above, look at Barnsley Manager, he knows the leagues and knows what he needs to get out of his players. Thorn doesn’t seem to know what gets the best from his team. After 21 games you thought he should have an idea.

diffrence is the barnsley manager has been backed by his board and has been able to bring in players, ricardo vaz te for example and before the season starts so he has time to get ppl fit and gel together.

he has also been able to bring in several players on loan to help his team out.

thorns had fuck all money, the spine of the side has left, were having to rely on kids to make up the numbers, we have a left back that isnt ready yet, he needed loaning out last season to gain experience of playing league football, broke his foot, came back from injury and gets chucked in the side.

we need to bring in players it aint rocket science, if we still had westy, king, gunnar and turner we would be in the top half of this division pushing for the playoffs.

cant blame andy thorn, he proved last 10 games of last season he could be a good manager with a half decent team at his disposal.

we need investment in the team and quick or we are going down.

sisu will not invest in the team so we will go down.

SISU OUT!!!

Nonleagueherewecome · Oct 3, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
Morale and confidence is where the manager comes into play. Is it not?

Yes but there is only so much he can do. Any senior pro with experience would be down after the kicks in the teeth we've had this season regarding late lost points, let alone a bunch of kids. Look at Bigi's reaction after the Derby win-it is safe to say that as elated as he was at that win, he is equally distraught at defeat, and to some extent such emotions will be affecting all the younger players. It's a lack of emotionally maturity, which is part of the reason that you can't rely on kids.

To quote AT after resting Cyrus and Gael "They were both relieved..which I think speaks for itself." These are the resources we have been reduced to operating with, and I'd be motivated by AT if he was my boss. Haven't heard a City gaffer speak so much sense and with such passion for CCFC since Snozz, tbh. I'm not alone in thinking that.

Take last season before AT took over; we were winless in ages, reduced to the bare bones, and on form poised for relegation. Thorn turned that around with the very same players. He's almost made a rod for his own back with that form. But by then taking away the better players from that side-and several other squad players-and not replacing them adequately, isn't it obvious that results will be much worse?

oldskyblue58 · Oct 3, 2011

only thing i would maybe disagree with Brinner is about the last 10 games of last season the effect of Boothroyd getting sacked i think is underestimated. Up until that point the team was playing to a rigid unforgiving Hoofroyd style that they clearly disliked. When he went the shackles were off and the players just wanted to get out and play, there was the new manager syndrome boost also. In those circumstances success sometimes comes more easily. There has been no such boost this season either with new manager or shackles off and I think AT has found it harder because of it.

Wouldnt blame AT as such although at some point a manager has to accept some responsibility, but it has been tougher for him than I think he thought it would be

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 3, 2011

brinner said:
diffrence is the barnsley manager has been backed by his board and has been able to bring in players, ricardo vaz te for example and before the season starts so he has time to get ppl fit and gel together.

he has also been able to bring in several players on loan to help his team out.

thorns had fuck all money, the spine of the side has left, were having to rely on kids to make up the numbers, we have a left back that isnt ready yet, he needed loaning out last season to gain experience of playing league football, broke his foot, came back from injury and gets chucked in the side.

we need to bring in players it aint rocket science, if we still had westy, king, gunnar and turner we would be in the top half of this division pushing for the playoffs.

cant blame andy thorn, he proved last 10 games of last season he could be a good manager with a half decent team at his disposal.

we need investment in the team and quick or we are going down.

sisu will not invest in the team so we will go down.

SISU OUT!!!

yes i hate sisu as much as the next man but my mate (who was with raff saturday) said the team were poor and lacked fight and commitment. Thorn istead of been pally with players needs to get them motivated for the game. If his post match interview is anything to go by then he's lacking motivation himself so what good will that be to motivate the players

TheParsonsHose · Oct 3, 2011

TommyAtkins said:
Very astute point.

Which just goes to show how dim fans are. Style of football takes precedence over results.

Deegs made a big difference in midfield last week When he came on and another decent striker to help juke and surely we are better off. I am more worried about this season than any other though.

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