Thorn Out (4 Viewers)

shy_tall_knight · Jun 30, 2012

Sacked bobby gould Dec 84 - stayed up
Sacked don Mackay April 86 - stayed up
Sacked Butcher Feb 92 - stayed up
Sacked Phil Neal Jan 95 - stayed p
Sacked BigRon (Oct 06 admit early in the season) but stayed up
Kept Strachan despite being in the relegation mire all season - relegated
Sacked Reid Jan 05 - stayed up
Sacked Adams Jan 07 stayed up
Sacked Dowie Feb 08 - stayed up
Sacked AB March 11 - stayed up
Kept AT - all season despite being in relegation zone most of the season.

Sacking managers to avoid relegation has worked QED

lordsummerisle · Jun 30, 2012

stupot07 said:
We will never know whether a change of manager would have kept us up on either of these occasions.

True, but we know for sure what happened on both occasions without a change in manager.

shy_tall_knight · Jun 30, 2012

If you look at those maangers that were sacked for being poor - only bobby gould went on to do well - wimbledon plus second spell with us. Eric black was deliberately excluded as we were not in the relegation mix and his sacking was for instant sucess.

AT will never manage a club the size of CCFC once he is finally booted. Failing at a club with poor resources isn't a sign of ability.

1nilandwe... · Jun 30, 2012

Some of you lot are so f***ing boring.

Grendel · Jun 30, 2012

1nilandwe... said:
Some of you lot are so f***ing boring.

Bit like thorns style of play boring predictable and ultimately ends in defeat. Good to see the majority of his fans now seem to use insomnia jokes as the only means of defence.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 30, 2012

stupot07 said:
It's not just fees though Brighton its also the wages he was given (+ signing on fees)

King, Carsley and sheff would have been big earners. I imagine RODs on a decent whack having come from Sunderland, There was a fee for Juke plus he was on a reported £7k p/w, compensation for O'Halloran. Plus he brought in Platt and Keogh, and a couple of very loan deals in turner, Doyle and ward.

The wage bill was slashed by £3m when all the players left at the end of the 2010-11, so compared to AT, AB spent quite a lot. Adams spent on Mckenzie and Kyle but that was through the sale of sheffers.

Adams also spent on Tabb, Ward, McNamee, Birchall, and a number of others who I'm fairly sure cost more than Sheff alone brought in. These players signed before Sheff was sold and the money came from Paul Fletcher's fundraising activities. King would have been on big money, sure, but it was AB alone that was the reason for him signing in the first place-I accept that compared to Thorn he had it good, but compared to Coleman he had pretty modest resources.

skyblue1523 · Jun 30, 2012

thorn should go not because hes a bad manger just on what he said last season.Ive told the board what is needed they eiether back me or im off they promised a bounce back budget.

WHERE IS THIS BUDGET THEN
WHAT HAPPENED TO BANG BANG BANG
WE BEEN TALKING TO PLAYERS JUST WAITING TO COME

the whole club as become a joke while these faceless ar*eholes sit around doing jackshit. rant over

mark82 · Jun 30, 2012

He's just been given a new contract and you expect him to be sacked before we even kick a ball.

stupot07 · Jun 30, 2012

shy_tall_knight said:
Sacked bobby gould Dec 84 - stayed up
Sacked don Mackay April 86 - stayed up
Sacked Butcher Feb 92 - stayed up
Sacked Phil Neal Jan 95 - stayed p
Sacked BigRon (Oct 06 admit early in the season) but stayed up
Kept Strachan despite being in the relegation mire all season - relegated
Sacked Reid Jan 05 - stayed up
Sacked Adams Jan 07 stayed up
Sacked Dowie Feb 08 - stayed up
Sacked AB March 11 - stayed up
Kept AT - all season despite being in relegation zone most of the season.

Sacking managers to avoid relegation has worked QED

I never said it hadn't worked in the past, I said you cannot prove that it would have worked in the two seasons we've been relegated. Plenty of other clubs have sacked/replaced managers and still got relegated.

Gaz · Jun 30, 2012

cheever said:
I can see why after watching his genius at work last season....:facepalm:

Oh, hi there LBB :wave:

Grendel · Jun 30, 2012

cheever said:
I can see why after watching his genius at work last season....:facepalm:

Indeed and his genius since commencing the role. Here is the list of all managers since the Great War with the win ratios aside. Makes you proud;

Harry Storer 47.18
Eric Black 45.45
Jimmy Hill 44.33
Roland Nilsson 44.19
Iain Dowie 40.82
John Sillett 40.7
Jack Fairbrother 40.54
Jimmy McIntyre 39.83
Billy Frith 39.81
Harry Storer 38.26
Jesse Carver 37.5
Peter Reid 37.04
Billy Frith 35.53
Gordon Milne 34.4
Harry Warren 34
Dick Bayliss 33.33
Terry Butcher 33.33
Micky Adams 33.33
Don Mackay 32.84
Gordon Strachan 32.71
James Kerr 32.48
Noel Cantwell 32.39
Joe Mercer 32.22
George Raynor 31.58
Phil Neal 31.34
Dave Sexton 31.25
Aidy Boothroyd 30.77
Bobby Gould 30.51
Albert Evans 29.83
Bobby Gould 29.17
Chris Coleman 29.06
Gary McAllister 27.63
Ron Atkinson 25.68
Harry Pollitt 20.45
Andy Thorn 18.37

WestEndAgro · Jun 30, 2012

Looking at those stats, it is impossible to defend Thorn

And for that reason Thorn Out !

Gaz · Jun 30, 2012

If all these managers had the same players and same budget then this list would prove something.
Because they didn't, it proves bugger all.

A very poor attempt here from the minority.

Grendel said:
Indeed and his genius since commencing the role. Here is the list of all managers since the Great War with the win ratios aside. Makes you proud;

Harry Storer 47.18
Eric Black 45.45
Jimmy Hill 44.33
Roland Nilsson 44.19
Iain Dowie 40.82
John Sillett 40.7
Jack Fairbrother 40.54
Jimmy McIntyre 39.83
Billy Frith 39.81
Harry Storer 38.26
Jesse Carver 37.5
Peter Reid 37.04
Billy Frith 35.53
Gordon Milne 34.4
Harry Warren 34
Dick Bayliss 33.33
Terry Butcher 33.33
Micky Adams 33.33
Don Mackay 32.84
Gordon Strachan 32.71
James Kerr 32.48
Noel Cantwell 32.39
Joe Mercer 32.22
George Raynor 31.58
Phil Neal 31.34
Dave Sexton 31.25
Aidy Boothroyd 30.77
Bobby Gould 30.51
Albert Evans 29.83
Bobby Gould 29.17
Chris Coleman 29.06
Gary McAllister 27.63
Ron Atkinson 25.68
Harry Pollitt 20.45
Andy Thorn 18.37

Grendel · Jun 30, 2012

gaz said:
If all these managers had the same players and same budget then this list would prove something.
Because they didn't, it proves bugger all.

A very poor attempt here from the minority.

Of course. I'm sure Harry polltt the first manager since the Great War had masses of talent at his disposal. Poor Harry has carried the worst manager tag for nearly a century. It takes someone like the clueless one to take it away. Harry can sleep easy now. The mantra of worst ever manager is safe in thorns hands. This is one lead he will defend.

oldskyblue58 · Jun 30, 2012

interesting that Dowie was not considered good enough but had a win ratio of 40.82 (5th best) and SISU replaced him with Coleman 29.06 (5th worst), than Boothroyd 30.77 (9th worst) then Thorne

DiveDiveWhereverYouMayBe · Jun 30, 2012

As far as SISU not sacking Thorn because he remains the cheap and easy option, I was of much the same opinion. I am assured it was a fact that they were consider sacking him before the Millwall (?) home game last season. If it wasn't Millwall, apologies. It was a game we won and it remained unclear to most as to whether he would retain his job despite the win. Also, that phone call (the one his son was fuming about) did occur... it seemed like he would be sacked, he expected it, but was just told the club had to tighten up his expenditure again. He is the manager of a football club... not untouchable and not coasting through the easiest job in the League. I think that he gets some undue criticism. I do not think he is the best manager in the League. If we are going to discuss this for the next 8 months, can we let a little balance into the mix?

lordsummerisle · Jun 30, 2012

@richh87 said:
Thorn's not the problem - the shit squad is. Some people expect miracles from their manager.

You're right, I blame the scout myself.

Colonel Mustard · Jun 30, 2012

oldskyblue58 said:
interesting that Dowie was not considered good enough but had a win ratio of 40.82 (5th best)

I won't fault the sacking of Dowie. His midas touch had worn off by the time he was sacked. The last 15 games had resulted in a 0.73 points-per-game average (20% win ratio), a -12 goal difference, and a drop from 8th place to 19th. Completely justifiable given that the slide was over a third of a season, with only the final third remaining to turn things around. The shocking thing though, as you point out, is that even a completely ineffective Dowie had a better win% than Thorn...

stupot07 · Jun 30, 2012

oldskyblue58 said:
interesting that Dowie was not considered good enough but had a win ratio of 40.82 (5th best) and SISU replaced him with Coleman 29.06 (5th worst), than Boothroyd 30.77 (9th worst) then Thorne

The problem with dowie was his loss ratio was higher and we either won or lost, especially when you look at specifically at league games. His points per game was no better than coleman's and Adams.

stupot07 · Jun 30, 2012

Colonel Mustard said:
I won't fault the sacking of Dowie. His midas touch had worn off by the time he was sacked. The last 15 games had resulted in a 0.73 points-per-game average (20% win ratio), a -12 goal difference, and a drop from 8th place to 19th. Completely justifiable given that the slide was over a third of a season, with only the final third remaining to turn things around. The shocking thing though, as you point out, is that even a completely ineffective Dowie had a better win% than Thorn...

Dowie had a much better side than AT - again your not comparing like for like.

wingy · Jun 30, 2012

DiveDiveWhereverYouMayBe said:
As far as SISU not sacking Thorn because he remains the cheap and easy option, I was of much the same opinion. I am assured it was a fact that they were consider sacking him before the Millwall (?) home game last season. If it wasn't Millwall, apologies. It was a game we won and it remained unclear to most as to whether he would retain his job despite the win. Also, that phone call (the one his son was fuming about) did occur... it seemed like he would be sacked, he expected it, but was just told the club had to tighten up his expenditure again. He is the manager of a football club... not untouchable and not coasting through the easiest job in the League. I think that he gets some undue criticism. I do not think he is the best manager in the League. If we are going to discuss this for the next 8 months, can we let a little balance into the mix?

Think you may mean the Bristol game ,the rumour being he had four games to turn it round and we went on that little Xmas run.

Gaz · Jun 30, 2012

Grendel said:
Of course. I'm sure Harry polltt the first manager since the Great War had masses of talent at his disposal.

You are clearly missing the point old chap.
I'm sure polltt didn't have "masses of talent" at his disposal, but I'm sure the playing squads were a a dam sight more even than how it was for us last season.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 30, 2012

The situation still remains win/win for Thorn at several different levels. His removal now will cost added expense in sacking him-and another manager (which would more likely be another internal appointment), may not comply so willingly with the dismantling of the squad. His fan popularity remains high as long as he occasionally makes digs at the owners and reinforces it with 'We'll give it our best shot' type comments in the media. All the while, the resources available are so poor that he earns plaudits in the footballing world for carrying on under such circumstances-and with the squad ever shrinking, expectations become even lower so his job security increases and any success is a bonus. This job is pretty much perfect for him.

dongonzalos · Jun 30, 2012

oldskyblue58 said:
interesting that Dowie was not considered good enough but had a win ratio of 40.82 (5th best) and SISU replaced him with Coleman 29.06 (5th worst), than Boothroyd 30.77 (9th worst) then Thorne

Does anyone have a list of the players in and out for each of these manager's tenues

Colonel Mustard · Jun 30, 2012

stupot07 said:
Dowie had a much better side than AT - again your not comparing like for like.

It doesn't matter. Nobody with AT's stats should have been allowed to stay in the job.

Sky Blue Kid · Jun 30, 2012

Carry on regardless is AT's train of thought, a man who hasn't got the power of his convictions...."Give me a budget or I will walk"....LMFAO

Tad · Jun 30, 2012

As out of his depth as I think AT is, don't give SISU ideas. Any excuse to cut wages..

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 30, 2012

Grendel said:
Of course. I'm sure Harry polltt the first manager since the Great War had masses of talent at his disposal. Poor Harry has carried the worst manager tag for nearly a century. It takes someone like the clueless one to take it away. Harry can sleep easy now. The mantra of worst ever manager is safe in thorns hands. This is one lead he will defend.

Not only was 1919-20 the first season after the War, it was also our first as a fully fledged League club.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 30, 2012

Grendel said:
Of course. I'm sure Harry polltt the first manager since the Great War had masses of talent at his disposal. Poor Harry has carried the worst manager tag for nearly a century. It takes someone like the clueless one to take it away. Harry can sleep easy now. The mantra of worst ever manager is safe in thorns hands. This is one lead he will defend.

Also, Duffy-have you seen this interview? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTfGdIXcbpQ Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVgNcQ3nhGo

Grendel · Jun 30, 2012

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Also, Duffy-have you seen this interview? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTfGdIXcbpQ Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVgNcQ3nhGo

No and I wish I hadn't.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 30, 2012

You can see the interviewer struggling to keep it going-feel sorry for him.

Grendel · Jun 30, 2012

Brighton Sky Blue said:
You can see the interviewer struggling to keep it going-feel sorry for him.

I have a bit of sympathy for Foster now. That was desparate - "You don't like music then Andy" - Er..............no:laugh::laugh:

Marty · Jul 1, 2012

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Also, Duffy-have you seen this interview? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTfGdIXcbpQ Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVgNcQ3nhGo

That has got to be the longest 6 minutes of my life, hes dull as fuck and can see why he can't inspire the players.

sky blue john · Jul 1, 2012

I will repeat yawn yawn yawn !!!!

dongonzalos · Jul 1, 2012

He's maybe bald, fat, (other posts) he may give not very good press interviews.....

But for some reason of the 700-1000 sample of Cov fan's in a survey in the CET, the majority back him. That will do for me.

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