To the apathetic ones... (2 Viewers)

DazzleTommyDazzle said:

I think that's what a number of us have been trying to point out in relation to the way the club's being run.

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Yep. I just think it isn't sustainable to constantly expect ownership to be either dipping into their own pockets or borrowing against the club. The fans ought to drive the club, every club. If a club is supposed to be bigger than any one player or owner, then it follows that the fans ought to be turning up regardless.

SISU have made it clear they won't be spending any money while the club tanks, so I think the onus should be on filling the ground every week to truly 'save our City' - then SISU would have no excuses.

The thing is, isn't the over spending policy of previous owners what got us into this mess in the first place?
We would all like an owner who spends millions on players but at this moment in time this is not going to happen and may never happen.

Sisu's Sole responsibility (as a company) is to their share holders and to maximise shareholder benefit. That is it, the rest of it does not count at all. Selling Juke would appear to be the beginning of the end game for them. They are clearly just getting back what they can to minimise their exposure and losses.

The further we are from the Premier league the further they are from their return on investment and makes a complete mockery of any business plan they ever had for putting us back into the premier league and the rewards they wer seeking to gain by selling a premiership club.

The will hold out as long as possible whilst there is anything of value to take out. I expect Clingan to be sold too during this window along with any other player than can attract a cash payment.

Truly painful for us all to watch and go through but I expect they will be gone by the summer and we will be in admin and league 1.

Reminds me of the Great Hargeisa Goat bubble http://www.juliangough.com/the-great-hargeisa-goat-bubble/ which deals with financial mismanagement and if we substitute Juke for the goat... fits exactly with the first sentiments of that sorry tale

"The forced sale of a goat in wartime is unlikely to realise the full value of the goat."


"Alternatively, the slaughter and personal consumption of the goat, while keeping one alive in the short term, would lead in the medium term to having no goat, and no money. In the long term, with neither assets nor capital nor cashflow, death would inevitably ensue

PUSB

Colonel Mustard said:

Yep. I just think it isn't sustainable to constantly expect ownership to be either dipping into their own pockets or borrowing against the club. The fans ought to drive the club, every club. If a club is supposed to be bigger than any one player or owner, then it follows that the fans ought to be turning up regardless.

SISU have made it clear they won't be spending any money while the club tanks, so I think the onus should be on filling the ground every week to truly 'save our City' - then SISU would have no excuses.

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That's lovely in theory, but you need a reason for people to go.

I'm pretty fanatical. I've been going since the late 60's and I've had a seaon ticket since the mid 70's. My wife organised a surprise weekend away for next weekend as part of my Xmas present. Any other year, I'd have been devastated about missing a home game but to be honest, this year I'm just looking forward to a nice weekend away.

You don't follow Cov for the success, but even we need a little bit of hope.

If that's how I'm feeling, where are the other 18,000 going to come from to fill the ground. What can we offer to entice them? At the moment all I can think of is the chance to witness the lowest points total ever in the Championship. To be honest, I'm not sure that'll do it.....

ICHAN said:

The thing is, isn't the over spending policy of previous owners what got us into this mess in the first place?
We would all like an owner who spends millions on players but at this moment in time this is not going to happen and may never happen.

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OK, let's accept for a moment that there is no cash and that SISU are not in a position to raise any more cash.

Let's accept that selling your leading (only?) goalscorer, when you need all the goals you can get to avoid relegation (which will cost you millions) and when he will still have a full year left on his contract at the end of the season is somehow a good thing.

In that situation is it not all the more necessary for the owners to explain their strategy, their vision, their plan for how they will ultimately take the club forward. It might be that they have and I've just missed it.

If so, could you enlighten me please.

DazzleTommyDazzle said:

If that's how I'm feeling, where are the other 18,000 going to come from to fill the ground. What can we offer to entice them? At the moment all I can think of is the chance to witness the lowest points total ever in the Championship. To be honest, I'm not sure that'll do it.....

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Back in the late 90s we were playing Premiership football against world-class players, and had the likes of Dublin, Huck, Whelan, Keane for ourselves. Our capacity was only some 23,000, and yet we still couldn't sell out every game. Bryan Richardson quietly put us 60m into debt and left us without a home in order to finance this.

The problem is bigger than SISU. Yes, I agree that right now investment is the way to go for the sake of not only the fans but SISU themselves. However, I think we all know that's not going to be forthcoming, and if we were really interested in 'saving our City' then surely the best thing to do would be a campaign to fill the ground every week. In fact, I bet that's something that SISU would be very happy to talk to the fans about - a collaboration to establish marketing strategy and tempting ticket prices. Make it about more than just the football - try to rebuild a culture in this City instead of feeling like we're at the mercy of the latest custodian.

Colonel Mustard said:

Back in the late 90s we were playing Premiership football against world-class players, and had the likes of Dublin, Huck, Whelan, Keane for ourselves. Our capacity was only some 23,000, and yet we still couldn't sell out every game. Bryan Richardson quietly put us 60m into debt and left us without a home in order to finance this.

The problem is bigger than SISU. Yes, I agree that right now investment is the way to go for the sake of not only the fans but SISU themselves. However, I think we all know that's not going to be forthcoming, and if we were really interested in 'saving our City' then surely the best thing to do would be a campaign to fill the ground every week. In fact, I bet that's something that SISU would be very happy to talk to the fans about - a collaboration to establish marketing strategy and tempting ticket prices. Make it about more than just the football - try to rebuild a culture in this City instead of feeling like we're at the mercy of the latest custodian.

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An excellent post that - expect the usual response

I think that they are now beyond any plan, they are simply salvaging what they can.

Their only plan was the premier league on the cheap.

If we accept that are looking to recoup £30m of invesment or debt the only way that would happen is to be in the premier league. Outside the premier league Even if we filled the ground and paid £25 quid each we would have to sell 1,200,000 tickets and that is before we paid any wages , rental or tax etc...

I know its not a simple as that but kind of shows how far adrift they really are.

There will be no new investnment from them other than to possibly keep us alive (just alive)

Colonel Mustard said:

Back in the late 90s we were playing Premiership football against world-class players, and had the likes of Dublin, Huck, Whelan, Keane for ourselves. Our capacity was only some 23,000, and yet we still couldn't sell out every game. Bryan Richardson quietly put us 60m into debt and left us without a home in order to finance this.

The problem is bigger than SISU. Yes, I agree that right now investment is the way to go for the sake of not only the fans but SISU themselves. However, I think we all know that's not going to be forthcoming, and if we were really interested in 'saving our City' then surely the best thing to do would be a campaign to fill the ground every week. In fact, I bet that's something that SISU would be very happy to talk to the fans about - a collaboration to establish marketing strategy and tempting ticket prices. Make it about more than just the football - try to rebuild a culture in this City instead of feeling like we're at the mercy of the latest custodian.

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I agree with the sentiment.

Perhaps my cynical side has been brought out too much, but I think SISU have given up on the club as a "going concern" and are now looking to minimise their losses before they get out.

Perhaps if we end up with new owners there'd be a chance to recapture some of the spirit of the 1960's (I'm just reading Jim Brown's book) that I was just too young to experience.

Colonel Mustard said:

The average attendances for 07/08, 08/09, and 09/10 were: 19,123; 17,407; 17,305. Those just aren't the sort of numbers upon which you can build a Championship powerhouse.

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So how did Blackpool manage it their average (due to ground size ) is a dam site smaller than ours Hull is another example.

DazzleTommyDazzle said:

OK, let's accept for a moment that there is no cash and that SISU are not in a position to raise any more cash.

Let's accept that selling your leading (only?) goalscorer, when you need all the goals you can get to avoid relegation (which will cost you millions) and when he will still have a full year left on his contract at the end of the season is somehow a good thing.

In that situation is it not all the more necessary for the owners to explain their strategy, their vision, their plan for how they will ultimately take the club forward. It might be that they have and I've just missed it.

If so, could you enlighten me please.

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But it's not just the selling our leading goal scorer that is/has going to cost us relegation, it is not as if we are 6 points clear of the bottom 3 and juke has been sold.

We have an inept manager, a group of players with no fight, we have the worst record in the league.
I never said it was a good thing, when we get relegated how much would juke be worth?
This one player was not going to save us, the club is rotton to the core.
They will not explain there strategy and I can not see how you got all these assumptions that I agree with all that sisu are doing.

What I said was that the over spending off previous owners got us into this mess we are in and find ourselves in, so do we want to go their again?
If we do then any new owner will look at the debt and may reconsider, by them doing what they are doing may just benefit us in the long term now.
They have done the damage before the selling of Juke or any other player they can get money for.

I am not pro sisu, and we all know it is going to cost them millions, and that is why I have previously said that I think they will sell what they can and make as much money as they can before they go.

ICHAN said:

But it's not just the selling our leading goal scorer that is/has going to cost us relegation, it is not as if we are 6 points clear of the bottom 3 and juke has been sold.

We have an inept manager, a group of players with no fight, we have the worst record in the league.
I never said it was a good thing, when we get relegated how much would juke be worth?
This one player was not going to save us, the club is rotton to the core.
They will not explain there strategy and I can not see how you got all these assumptions that I agree with all that sisu are doing.

What I said was that the over spending off previous owners got us into this mess we are in and find ourselves in, so do we want to go their again?
If we do then any new owner will look at the debt and may reconsider, by them doing what they are doing may just benefit us in the long term now.
They have done the damage before the selling of Juke or any other player they can get money for.

I am not pro sisu, and we all know it is going to cost them millions, and that is why I have previously said that I think they will sell what they can and make as much money as they can before they go.

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So do I take it that we are agreeing that SISU's complete lack of communication - particularly in the current circumstances - demonstrates either that they are quite staggeringly inept or that they really don't give a toss about the club?

They have never give a toss about the club DTD as far as I am concerned.
They came in because they beleived others that they could make money out of us by spending a couple of million, get into the prem and sell up for a big profit.

This never happened and since then they have panicked into trying to get investors monies back, no matter what the cost to the club, spend as little as possible and get much as they can back.

Now they find themselves at the opposite end of the route they wanted to take which they will know will cost them millions, and so they must now sell whatever they can before they get out.

They were not going to spend any money this year and may have decided that this was their last year as they will know, no more players are worth anything to them, they will have had to spend money to replace AT, which they are clearly showing they will not do, so they are not interested in where the club ends up as this will not be their problem, but a new owners problem, they will have taken as much money as they can get out, out of the club to pay back their investors.

There little foray into football was not all roses and that is their problem for not looking into what it would cost them to try and achieve the rewards of promotion.
I have no sympathy for them whatsoever, but I feel that if their plan is to sell whatever they can and leave then so be it they will be gone, the fans and the club at least can move forward and they will become a distant nightmare.

GinettasStickySofa said:

In order for the club to truly move forward it needs to attract the casual supporters

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Indeed.

The only way of attracting these kind of fans to the Ricoh is by producing a winning team. Evidently, this will*no longer happen with SISU at the helm.

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As I said in the original post, we couldn't sell out Highfield Road (23k seats) when we were in the Premiership. Richardson spent a ton, we didn't win, and effectively left us where we are now. That's where 'spending to win' got us.

We need to stop thinking of a sugar daddy as the solution. As long as we hold out for that the fans will continue to snub the club, and really, it is probably an impossible dream. You say that it is a "lovely theory" to fill the ground out, but I'd argue it is a far more feasible dream than that of an oil baron spending enough money to make Coventry City a winning team.

And the really frustrating thing is that it's a power we kinda hold in our own hands. Instead of just waiting in misery for the rich unicorn to come prancing over the hills, the fans themselves could motor the club. If 2.5x as many people in the extended area decided to come to the games then we probably wouldn't be seeing Juke leave today, but rather anticipate who was coming in.