Tomorrow's FA Cup Final (16 Viewers)

Calista · May 26, 2024

ccfc922 said:
Do you think it was offside? As in our winner vs United to be clear?

Also, take into account the line over Wan-Bisakkas boot?

You are aware that the line you're talking about was just the indicative one sent for presentation on the TV?

The VAR guys got it absolutely right, and Haji was offside regardless of whether you take the moment COH touches the ball, or the moments just before and after. On another thread a few days after the game, I drew lines myself on images from the opposite side of the pitch, and it's crystal clear.

No need for batshit conspiracy theories or even accusations of incompetence. The only argument is whether VAR should be so pernickety. Personally I think there should be more leeway for the attacker, but under the current rules they did their job right.

Anyway feel free to believe we actually won the game, and let it keep chewing you up for the rest of your days. It's strangely popular on here.

ccfc922 · May 26, 2024

Calista said:
You are aware that the line you're talking about was just the indicative one sent for presentation on the TV?

The VAR guys got it absolutely right, and Haji was offside regardless of whether you take the moment COH touches the ball, or the moments just before and after. On another thread a few days after the game, I drew lines myself on images from the opposite side of the pitch, and it's crystal clear.

No need for batshit conspiracy theories or even accusations of incompetence. The only argument is whether VAR should be so pernickety. Personally I think there should be more leeway for the attacker, but under the current rules they did their job right.

Anyway feel free to believe we actually won the game, and let it keep chewing you up for the rest of your days. It's strangely popular on here.

Upload your lines then?

Sorry, was genuinely heartbroken and couldn't even over analyse the decision til recently.

oscillatewildly · May 26, 2024

ccfc922 said:
Not sure what you mean sorry?

Don't worry - We dodged it.

Bugsy · May 26, 2024

Calista said:
You are aware that the line you're talking about was just the indicative one sent for presentation on the TV?

The VAR guys got it absolutely right, and Haji was offside regardless of whether you take the moment COH touches the ball, or the moments just before and after. On another thread a few days after the game, I drew lines myself on images from the opposite side of the pitch, and it's crystal clear.

No need for batshit conspiracy theories or even accusations of incompetence. The only argument is whether VAR should be so pernickety. Personally I think there should be more leeway for the attacker, but under the current rules they did their job right.

Anyway feel free to believe we actually won the game, and let it keep chewing you up for the rest of your days. It's strangely popular on here.

It's just when U get a decision like Hadj Wright who plays for Coventry compared to Rashford who plays for Man Utd, it's alittle hard to accept that VAR doesn't favour the so called big clubs or there isn't any favouritism there.

Calista · May 26, 2024

ccfc922 said:
Upload your lines then?

OK, the pics are numbered in order. Each set of parallel lines go to a common point, which is the effect of perspective. Unfortunately under the current (over-fussy) rules it's pretty clear to me, so I don't feel aggrieved. It was bad timing and very bad luck.

Draw some different lines (= alternative facts) if you want, to make him onside at the crucial moment.

ccfc922 · May 26, 2024

Calista said:
OK, the pics are numbered in order. Each set of parallel lines go to a common point, which is the effect of perspective. Unfortunately under the current (over-fussy) rules it's pretty clear to me, so I don't feel aggrieved. It was bad timing and very bad luck.

Draw some different lines (= alternative facts) if you want, to make him onside at the crucial moment.

View attachment 35824

Going by the 4th picture, that's based off the lino.

Until we have a camera evert 5 yards or so down the touchline, like a greyhound hare, it's open to manipulation.

So me lines parallel to the touchline, n I'd 100% agree with you. Imo, when O'Hare releases the ball, he's back onside. When O'Hare starts the chip, he's coming back onside.

ccfc922 · May 26, 2024

As I said, if Cov lost 3-0, or Haji was running forward and offside by half a yard, then I'd genuinely be like it is what it is.

But 95% of the footballing world say otherwise, n they either know fuck all about football or the small % trying to make it fit are the ones who do.

I genuinely believe the angles they use are wrong, unless you use a true line from the sideline with the last defender, no one can say he was offside.

ccfc922 · May 26, 2024

Still can't get my head around "Well we would have been dicked by City" mentality.

I'd rather be there against the best, every day of the week.

Calista · May 26, 2024

I posted the pics a few weeks ago and it made no difference to people who believe we were robbed. I am sure in 50 years' time there will still be those who say we won the match.

If you think Haji is onside in pics 3 and 4, fair enough.

ccfc922 · May 26, 2024

Calista said:
I posted the pics a few weeks ago and it made no difference to people who believe we were robbed. I am sure in 50 years' time there will still be those who say we won the match.

If you think Haji is onside in pics 3 and 4, fair enough.

🩵

Ashdown · May 26, 2024

Calista said:
I posted the pics a few weeks ago and it made no difference to people who believe we were robbed. I am sure in 50 years' time there will still be those who say we won the match.

If you think Haji is onside in pics 3 and 4, fair enough.

That’s because they are far from conclusive. The margins are too fine and could easily have gone our way but them in charge didn’t want that at all….we were done over !
I’d like to bet if that was in the 10th minute of the game the goal would have stood. At 120th plus 1 there was no way back for the super rich. It had to be stopped!

SIR ERNIE · May 26, 2024

Calista said:
OK, the pics are numbered in order. Each set of parallel lines go to a common point, which is the effect of perspective. Unfortunately under the current (over-fussy) rules it's pretty clear to me, so I don't feel aggrieved. It was bad timing and very bad luck.

Draw some different lines (= alternative facts) if you want, to make him onside at the crucial moment.

View attachment 35824

All very good apart from the fact that your lines are based on the turf stripes.
An argument that relies on how straight Alf Higgins can drive his mower over 7,000 sqm of grass doesn't convince me.
Given that the onfield officials were happy, I'll always believe that the 'clear and obvious error' rule should have applied here.

Sky Blue Pete · May 26, 2024

Calista said:
OK, the pics are numbered in order. Each set of parallel lines go to a common point, which is the effect of perspective. Unfortunately under the current (over-fussy) rules it's pretty clear to me, so I don't feel aggrieved. It was bad timing and very bad luck.

Draw some different lines (= alternative facts) if you want, to make him onside at the crucial moment.

View attachment 35824

Those are brilliant

Frostie · May 26, 2024

Calista said:
I posted the pics a few weeks ago and it made no difference to people who believe we were robbed. I am sure in 50 years' time there will still be those who say we won the match.

If you think Haji is onside in pics 3 and 4, fair enough.

Was it more than 10cm offside? That is supposedly the "margin of error" they allow knowing that the technology isn't fit for purpose.

M&B Stand · May 26, 2024

Sometimes your names on the Cup. This was just United’s year, good luck to them.
The semi final hurt, but we did ourselves proud.
That’s football.

Sick Boy · May 26, 2024

ccfc922 said:
Upload your lines then?

Sorry, was genuinely heartbroken and couldn't even over analyse the decision til recently.

It’s understandable, I doubt anyone on here wasn’t but for your own sanity you need to let it go. Just be glad we got away with some dubious decisions away at Notts County.

Sick Boy · May 26, 2024

Frostie said:
Was it more than 10cm offside? That is supposedly the "margin of error" they allow knowing that the technology isn't fit for purpose.

…this is why it needs binning off with only goal line technology used.

Otis · May 26, 2024

Haven't bothered to read through the thread and maybe someone has already said it, but we beat United, United beat City, we won the cup.

Shannerz · May 26, 2024

Ashdown said:
That’s because they are far from conclusive. The margins are too fine and could easily have gone our way but them in charge didn’t want that at all….we were done over !
I’d like to bet if that was in the 10th minute of the game the goal would have stood. At 120th plus 1 there was no way back for the super rich. It had to be stopped!

Thinking overturning the decision was stupid because it didn't allow for a margin of error is fine.

Thinking it's fucking stupid to take decisions down to such finite levels and to think that players are functionally level is fine.

Thinking it's abysmal planning to have a competition with different metrics depending on which ground a game is played at is fine.

Thinking it would have been a different decision at the other end or against different opposition is batshit fucking mental.

This is making our fanbase look silly now. Yes, it was a shit decision, but shit because the tech is applied badly, not because game officials are corrupt.

SIR ERNIE · May 26, 2024

Sick Boy said:
…this is why it needs binning off with only goal line technology used.

Exactly, it's a nonsense.
The audio of the VAR decision in the Tottenham Chelsea match should have confirmed to everyone that it's an amateurish process dressed up as the high-tec solution that football has always needed.

Calista · May 26, 2024

Frostie said:
Was it more than 10cm offside? That is supposedly the "margin of error" they allow knowing that the technology isn't fit for purpose.

Yes it looks it, perhaps twice that amount. In truth I can't tell to that degree of accuracy, but unless you subscribe to the idea that a whole bunch of officials conspired to break the rules, I think it the simplest explanation is that they got it right.

Calista · May 26, 2024

Ashdown said:
That’s because they are far from conclusive. The margins are too fine and could easily have gone our way but them in charge didn’t want that at all….we were done over !
I’d like to bet if that was in the 10th minute of the game the goal would have stood. At 120th plus 1 there was no way back for the super rich. It had to be stopped!

OK

Calista · May 26, 2024

Shannerz said:
Thinking overturning the decision was stupid because it didn't allow for a margin of error is fine.

Thinking it's fucking stupid to take decisions down to such finite levels and to think that players are functionally level is fine.

Thinking it's abysmal planning to have a competition with different metrics depending on which ground a game is played at is fine.

Thinking it would have been a different decision at the other end or against different opposition is batshit fucking mental.

This is making our fanbase look silly now. Yes, it was a shit decision, but shit because the tech is applied badly, not because game officials are corrupt.

This.

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · May 26, 2024

VAR didn’t overrule the initial decision either. If it’s close - linesmen are told to keep their flag down and use VAR. it’s easier to disallow than the alternative. See Bayern v Real Madrid.

Wright was offside - millimetres, if he’d have hung back 0.5 of a second we’d be in the final. Just unfortunate.

If there was any conspiracy - we wouldn’t have got the penalty at the end of the 90 mins. That was harsh in itself

Otis · May 26, 2024

Shannerz said:
Thinking overturning the decision was stupid because it didn't allow for a margin of error is fine.

Thinking it's fucking stupid to take decisions down to such finite levels and to think that players are functionally level is fine.

Thinking it's abysmal planning to have a competition with different metrics depending on which ground a game is played at is fine.

Thinking it would have been a different decision at the other end or against different opposition is batshit fucking mental.

This is making our fanbase look silly now. Yes, it was a shit decision, but shit because the tech is applied badly, not because game officials are corrupt.

"Corrupt" is so much more salivating though isn't it.

Frostie · May 26, 2024

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
VAR didn’t overrule the initial decision either. If it’s close - linesmen are told to keep their flag down and use VAR. it’s easier to disallow than the alternative. See Bayern v Real Madrid.

Wright was offside - millimetres, if he’d have hung back 0.5 of a second we’d be in the final. Just unfortunate.

If there was any conspiracy - we wouldn’t have got the penalty at the end of the 90 mins. That was harsh in itself

Seen that said a few times but it isn't true. The protocol is they are told to keep the flag down until the passage of play ends & then give their decision. The linesman thought it was onside (and the 4th official agreed after he viewed it).

There is no conspiracy just tech & decision making that isn't fit for purpose.

Frostie · May 26, 2024

Calista said:
Yes it looks it, perhaps twice that amount. In truth I can't tell to that degree of accuracy, but unless you subscribe to the idea that a whole bunch of officials conspired to break the rules, I think it the simplest explanation is that they got it right.

No, I don't prescribe to any corruption claims, just competence, human error & a technology that they know isn't accurate being used to make millimetre precise decisions.

The thing that has never been explained is why the line goes through Wan-Bissaka's boot?

Calista · May 26, 2024

SIR ERNIE said:
All very good apart from the fact that your lines are based on the turf stripes.
An argument that relies on how straight Alf Higgins can drive his mower over 7,000 sqm of grass doesn't convince me.
Given that the onfield officials were happy, I'll always believe that the 'clear and obvious error' rule should have applied here.

As I've said a few times, I agree about 'clear and obvious', and they should give more leeway to the attacker. But we are talking about whether they applied the existing rules correctly, and they did. The timing of Haji sticking his left foot out was desperately unlucky.

You're absolutely right, it's based on the turf stripes. But Alf Higgins would have needed numerous pints for his lines to be that far out!

Calista · May 26, 2024

Frostie said:
The thing that has never been explained is why the line goes through Wan-Bissaka's boot?

I agree that's strange, and that's actually why I bothered to do my own lines using the mobile pictures from the opposite angle. People can dispute them if they want, but it seems crystal clear to me. There's a website called 'football offsides' which looks at decisions, again drawing perspective lines, and they quickly confirmed the Haji decision was correct (they don't always).

The lines they show on TV are just indicative, and in this case they have caused a lot of unnecessary confusion IMO.

Sick Boy · May 26, 2024

Ashdown said:
That’s because they are far from conclusive. The margins are too fine and could easily have gone our way but them in charge didn’t want that at all….we were done over !
I’d like to bet if that was in the 10th minute of the game the goal would have stood. At 120th plus 1 there was no way back for the super rich. It had to be stopped!

If there truly was a conspiracy, VAR would have overturned the penalty after it was checked.

Shannerz · May 26, 2024

Frostie said:
The thing that has never been explained is why the line goes through Wan-Bissaka's boot?

Isn't it the blue bit ends with his toe, and then Wright's big toe extends into the red; which is how they say it was off.

eyesee · May 26, 2024

Calista said:
I agree that's strange, and that's actually why I bothered to do my own lines using the mobile pictures from the opposite angle. People can dispute them if they want, but it seems crystal clear to me. There's a website called 'football offsides' which looks at decisions, again drawing perspective lines, and they quickly confirmed the Haji decision was correct (they don't always).

The lines they show on TV are just indicative, and in this case they have caused a lot of unnecessary confusion IMO.

i think that's it in a nutshell.
time to move on, people.

skyblue025 · May 26, 2024

It's gone, there has been another round played and the competition is finished for the season.

Nothing is going to change, move on, it was last season, close thread.

itsabuzzard · May 26, 2024

SIR ERNIE said:
All very good apart from the fact that your lines are based on the turf stripes.
An argument that relies on how straight Alf Higgins can drive his mower over 7,000 sqm of grass doesn't convince me.
Given that the onfield officials were happy, I'll always believe that the 'clear and obvious error' rule should have applied here.

And are the grass stripes at right angles to the touchline?

Tommo1993 · May 26, 2024

It was over the moment Hojlund slotted his pen. Why people have tortured themselves over it ever since, I don’t know.

Tomorrow's FA Cup Final (16 Viewers)

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