U23 v Cardiff today (1 Viewer)

SkyBlueCRJ · Jan 20, 2020

PVA said:
I see your point, but you get players signed for £30/30/50m and turn out to be complete disasters, nowhere near the level required.

Sometimes it is bad scouting, sometimes it just happens for no obvious reason. Maybe the player had a freak purple patch once in his career.

There is obviously a good player in Kastaneer, we just haven't seen it yet (apart from that brilliant goal), and maybe we never will.

See my initial post. Like I said I can accept that not all transfers come off. In fact the vast majority over a period of time at our level probably won't. But what I do find bizarre is how a professional scout who has monitored a player since his teens, and has in fact come out publicly and said that player should be plying his trade at a higher level, has got it completely wrong.

People make mistakes it's not like I want Badlan hung, drawn and quartered as he's done a good job in the main. I just find the whole situation very odd.

better days · Jan 20, 2020

Briles said:
Out of Interest, why did they stop calling them reserves and change it to u23s? Anyone know?

It's a failed experiment really
The idea is that the vast bulk of the team will be U23 with the odd senior player making a comeback from injury etc. to get game time
In theory the young players would develop without the pressure of having to get a result
They've ended up as glorified friendlies where there is rarely a hard challenge so clubs instead loan out their best young players so they can be in games where the result is everything

shmmeee · Jan 20, 2020

SkyBlueCRJ said:
See my initial post. Like I said I can accept that not all transfers come off. In fact the vast majority over a period of time at our level probably won't. But what I do find bizarre is how a professional scout who has monitored a player since his teens, and has in fact come out publicly and said that player should be plying his trade at a higher level, has got it completely wrong.

People make mistakes it's not like I want Badlan hung, drawn and quartered as he's done a good job in the main. I just find the whole situation very odd.

I think you’re being overly harsh. Kasta showed promise early on and clearly needs some coaching and he’d be a very dangerous player. I’d guess we just overestimated our ability to smooth off the rough edges. It’s hardly a George Weahs cousin situation.

SkyBlueCRJ · Jan 20, 2020

shmmeee said:
I think you’re being overly harsh. Kasta showed promise early on and clearly needs some coaching and he’d be a very dangerous player. I’d guess we just overestimated our ability to smooth off the rough edges. It’s hardly a George Weahs cousin situation.

How am I being harsh when nothing I've said is untrue?

shmmeee · Jan 20, 2020

SkyBlueCRJ said:
How am I being harsh when nothing I've said is untrue?

You said he shouldn’t be playing his trade at a higher level. I’m saying if he got his head right and had some footballing sense coached into him he should on raw ability and physical stats alone.

SkyBlueCRJ · Jan 20, 2020

shmmeee said:
You said he shouldn’t be playing his trade at a higher level. I’m saying if he got his head right and had some footballing sense coached into him he should on raw ability and physical stats alone.

He's not even plying his trade in League One so how can you make that prediction?

shmmeee · Jan 20, 2020

SkyBlueCRJ said:
He's not even plying his trade in League One so how can you make that prediction?

With the words I used in my post.

Colin Steins Smile · Jan 20, 2020

It really depends on the issues surrounding Kasta's lack of progress since he's been here. If he's working hard, but finding it difficult to settle to the new surroundings, that one thing that can be resolved with some mentoring and support.
However, if his lack of fitness and progress is due to attitude and a unprofessional lifestyle, then we should look to offload ASAP. Even considering giving a 6 month to a year pay off to find another club.

SlowerThanPlatt · Jan 20, 2020

The stats are a little damning for Kastaneer tbh. Over last 3 seasons 2238 minutes in the league which equates to 8 full games of playing time a season - 188 minutes in the league this so underperforming

Winny the Bish · Jan 20, 2020

SkyBlueCRJ said:
Transfers don't work out, I can accept that - even if a club spent upwards of £50M on a player there's no guarantees. But from Badlan's perspective I'd just love to know what the attraction was with Kastaneer. He claimed to have followed him for years too so I just can't get my head around it.

You can look at the advanced data, watch all the games you want, but sometimes scouting is still guesswork.

Kastaneer has clearly valuable traits. He's fast, has good feet, top-flight experience in a Top 10 European league, still young and was a valuable target once upon a time. Teams will back themselves to get the best out of a player, but sometimes there's things you can't see on a graph. How well will they adapt and the like. Kasta was an educated guess of a signing who had the tools to be a star in League One. It sadly hasn't worked out and now he faces a choice: buckle down and work his socks off or move back home.

SkyBlueCRJ · Jan 20, 2020

shmmeee said:
With the words I used in my post.

Bakayoko could be playing in the Championship by your logic then

SkyBlueCRJ · Jan 20, 2020

skyblue93 said:
You can look at the advanced data, watch all the games you want, but sometimes scouting is still guesswork.

Kastaneer has clearly valuable traits. He's fast, has good feet, top-flight experience in a Top 10 European league, still young and was a valuable target once upon a time. Teams will back themselves to get the best out of a player, but sometimes there's things you can't see on a graph. How well will they adapt and the like. Kasta was an educated guess of a signing who had the tools to be a star in League One. It sadly hasn't worked out and now he faces a choice: buckle down and work his socks off or move back home.

Yeah I understand all that, you're misunderstanding what I'm getting at. It's the fact he'd been scouting him for 6 years and he's nowhere near the player that he initially believed him to be.

He claimed to have watched Kastaneer at a number of games and as a result has probably spoken to his various managers, coaches etc about him. You'd think that the fact he can't last 10 minutes without blowing a gasket would be apparent or at least come up at some point.

It's also weird for him to think that Robins could be the one to get the most out of him when he's probably the most anti-Robins player ever.

Like I said I think he's doing a good job as he's brought in some good players but I really don't think I'm being harsh by questioning his ability to scout foreign players when a player he's been scouting since his U17 days turns out to be a flop.

SlowerThanPlatt · Jan 20, 2020

He clearly has some ability but everywhere he goes he fails to get on the pitch so isn’t much use to a club - it hasn’t took him too long to find the same here

Londonccfcfan · Jan 20, 2020

SkyBlueCRJ said:
Bakayoko could be playing in the Championship by your logic then

A lot of You may all laugh, but potentially yes. Will take a lot of development.

I think hes improved 100% since I first saw him at Blackpool.

Godden get caught offside more than he does know. Doesn't Godden miss chances? Chaplin/McNulty/JCH, all have done.

Baka gets a lot of stick. Personally I think it its bang out of order to Rubbish people. Hes better than that.

Winny the Bish · Jan 20, 2020

SkyBlueCRJ said:
Yeah I understand all that, you're misunderstanding what I'm getting at. It's the fact he'd been scouting him for 6 years and he's nowhere near the player that he initially believed him to be.

He claimed to have watched Kastaneer at a number of games and as a result has probably spoken to his various managers, coaches etc about him. You'd think that the fact he can't last 10 minutes without blowing a gasket would be apparent or at least come up at some point.

It's also weird for him to think that Robins could be the one to get the most out of him when he's probably the most anti-Robins player ever.

Like I said I think he's doing a good job as he's brought in some good players but I really don't think I'm being harsh by questioning his ability to scout foreign players when a player he's been scouting since his U17 days turns out to be a flop.

Yeah that's fair. I seem to have misread you. We probably should have listened to NAC Breda fans when they were happy to see him leave.

ccfchoi87 · Jan 20, 2020

SlowerThanPlatt said:
The stats are a little damning for Kastaneer tbh. Over last 3 seasons 2238 minutes in the league which equates to 8 full games of playing time a season - 188 minutes in the league this so underperforming

I raised this point when we signed him and was rubbished. It was obvious even in preseason

PVA · Jan 20, 2020

SkyBlueCRJ said:
Bakayoko could be playing in the Championship by your logic then

Did anyone think Callum Wilson would play for England and in the Premier League when he was on loan Kettering and Tamworth?

SlowerThanPlatt · Jan 20, 2020

PVA said:
Did anyone think Callum Wilson would play for England and in the Premier League when he was on loan Kettering and Tamworth?

To be fair you are using one example - if it was common there would be lots more examples

Bakayoko is also 3 years older than Wilson was and has about 150 games at professional level

PVA · Jan 20, 2020

SlowerThanPlatt said:
To be fair you are using one example - if it was common there would be lots more examples

Bakayoko is also 3 years older than Wilson was and has about 150 games at professional level

I wasn't referencing Baka (or anyone for that matter), but someone said there's no way Kasta could play at a higher level because he's not even playing League One level right now, and my point was to say that doesn't mean he can't play at a higher level in the future.

robbiethemole · Jan 20, 2020

PVA said:
I see your point, but you get players signed for £30/30/50m and turn out to be complete disasters, nowhere near the level required.

Sometimes it is bad scouting, sometimes it just happens for no obvious reason. Maybe the player had a freak purple patch once in his career.

There is obviously a good player in Kastaneer, we just haven't seen it yet (apart from that brilliant goal), and maybe we never will.

Hang on what about the Vile?? spent £114m on transfers and in the bottom 3.........bad scouting,it happens at every club and I'm happy to see it at work there.

SkyBlueCRJ · Jan 20, 2020

PVA said:
Did anyone think Callum Wilson would play for England and in the Premier League when he was on loan Kettering and Tamworth?

Wilson is the exception not the rule. Plus, at Kastaneer's age he was ripping it up in the Championship - not failing to feature in a League One U23's game.

PVA · Jan 20, 2020

SkyBlueCRJ said:
Wilson is the exception not the rule. Plus, at Kastaneer's age he was ripping it up in the Championship - not failing to feature in a League One U23's game.

Wilson may well be an exception, but it still shows that players can make it regardless of what level they're at, and how they're playing, at a particular point in time.

I have no real opinion on Kasta, I'm not saying he's going to be playing in the Premier League this time next year, I'm just saying that because he can't get in the team right now does not mean that one day he could be a good player.

mmttww · Jan 20, 2020

Why do people just have to find something to be critical of? Robins and his team will recruit players that work out and players that don't. Same as EVERY SINGLE CLUB EVER. Wenger signed Henry, and he signed Jeffers. Man City signed Auguero, and they signed Rodwell. Discussing the finer points of one signing that didn't work out - and is now being managed assertively - when the current side is full of recent signings that improved the squad massively seems like such a waste of time.

SkyBlueCRJ · Jan 20, 2020

PVA said:
Wilson may well be an exception, but it still shows that players can make it regardless of what level they're at, and how they're playing, at a particular point in time.

I have no real opinion on Kasta, I'm not saying he's going to be playing in the Premier League this time next year, I'm just saying that because he can't get in the team right now does not mean that one day he could be a good player.

One day? He's 23 not 17. Realistically if he can't get his head down and work hard to break into the team now it's highly unlikely that he ever will.

LincolnNick · Jan 20, 2020

skyblue93 said:
Yeah that's fair. I seem to have misread you. We probably should have listened to NAC Breda fans when they were happy to see him leave.

My sons Dutch in-laws are season ticket holders at Groningen in top Dutch League . I spoke to them about Kassa and they knew about him and were very complimentary about his pace and overall ability. Somewhere I think there is a top player in Kassa but not sure whether it will be at Cov.

better days · Jan 20, 2020

WhitwellNick said:
My sons Dutch in-laws are season ticket holders at Groningen in top Dutch League . I spoke to them about Kassa and they knew about him and were very complimentary about his pace and overall ability. Somewhere I think there is a top player in Kassa but not sure whether it will be at Cov.

23 is still pretty young to go abroad with no family support especially if you are out of the team and unsuccessful
I suspect his best option from a human viewpoint is to try again back in NL

cc84cov · Jan 20, 2020

better days said:
Kastaneer is only 23
Probably seen as worth a punt when he signed
Don't know details of his contract but wouldn't be surprised if his agent brought him here in the hope that he'd make a big impression and clubs higher up the pyramid would come in
After a good start it's unfortunately not worked out for him
By all accounts he's a decent lad but seems to lack a 'football brain'

Badlan said he was a coup and shouldn’t be in league 1 mate

capel & collindridge · Jan 20, 2020

SkyBlueCRJ said:
Bakayoko could be playing in the Championship by your logic then

Next year, I hope. Once we get promoted, he may still get a game or two!

better days · Jan 20, 2020

cc84cov said:
Badlan said he was a coup and shouldn’t be in league 1 mate

Looks like he was wrong
We all make mistakes

cc84cov · Jan 20, 2020

Anyone there today

how was Jones ???

better days · Jan 20, 2020

cc84cov said:
Anyone there today

how was Jones ???

Heard from someone who was there
Said it was a poor game on a sticky pitch
Jones played in number 10 position but couldn't get enough of the ball

fatso · Jan 20, 2020

shmmeee said:
You said he shouldn’t be playing his trade at a higher level. I’m saying if he got his head right and had some footballing sense coached into him he should on raw ability and physical stats alone.

You could literally say the same thing about any 23 year old Male with 2 legs!
With the right attitude and coaching he could even become a brain surgeon or mitchellin stared chef!

mark82 · Jan 20, 2020

SkyBlueCRJ said:
He's not even plying his trade in League One so how can you make that prediction?

Well, he's already played at a higher level for a start.

Evo1883 · Jan 20, 2020

Would be interested in what Robins has to say right now about what his plans are in regards to kastaneer...

shmmeee · Jan 20, 2020

fatso said:
You could literally say the same thing about any 23 year old Male with 2 legs!
With the right attitude and coaching he could even become a brain surgeon or mitchellin stared chef!

You clearly never met me at 23!

U23 v Cardiff today (1 Viewer)

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