update on odds and ends off the pitch (1 Viewer)

oldskyblue58 · Jun 9, 2015

No commentary or opinion just an update

Striking off for CCFC Ltd is set for 14 August 2015

Appleton has filed his final report to the creditors. In total the major costs of administration and liquidation were
Administrator/Liquidation fees £678,906 (he didn't get paid another £2728 because there were no funds available)
Legal & Professional fees £444,951
Investigation by accountants £30,000 (results = "inconclusive")
PR firm £30,000
ARVO repaid £273,773
Unsecured creditors repaid £72,440

Funds for the administration and liquidation mainly came from the purchase of CCFC Ltd assets by Otium of £1.5m. Otium also further contributed £16797 to cover costs of potential purchase of shares under the option last October that failed.

The annual return for Otium was due 19/05/15 it is currently overdue

ACL year end extended to 30/06/15 in line with the Wasps Holdings Ltd year end

Per the terms of new charge now on ACL and Arena Coventry 2006 ltd as part of bond issue accounts are to be published 4 months after year end

The memorandums of satisfaction re CCC loans to ACL have been filed - loans all repaid

Captain Dart · Jun 9, 2015

If Otium returns remain overdue past the start of the season will that result in a points deduction next season?

skybluetony176 · Jun 9, 2015

Captain Dart said:
If Otium returns remain overdue past the start of the season will that result in a points deduction next season?

More likely a transfer embargo I would think. Not certain of how overdue they need to be before this becomes a problem but I have a feeling it's 12 months for some reason so won't effect us until next May, assuming they're not posted by then.

Ashdown · Jun 9, 2015

What a bloody great waste of £1.1 million !! Sickening !

Sick Boy · Jun 9, 2015

It still got us out of pay extortionate levels of rent to ACL

BrisbaneBronco · Jun 9, 2015

Sick Boy said:
It still got us out of pay extortionate levels of rent to ACL

Agreed, 1.1m one off as opposed to 1.2m per season. Good business??????

DazzleTommyDazzle · Jun 9, 2015

So £1.1m to wind up CCFC Ltd and how much so far in legal fees?

And after all that expenditure we're left with a short term stadium rental deal that our Chairman tells us is unsustainable. Not to mention the lost revenue from our year and a bit in exile......

One day this will form a classic Business School case study.

fernandopartridge · Jun 9, 2015

BrisbaneBronco said:
Agreed, 1.1m one off as opposed to 1.2m per season. Good business??????

Whilst it is right that the lease had to be broken, it can't really judged as good business due to the large amount of collateral damage it caused. Some, if not all and some, of the gain will have been swallowed up by the Sixfields move and the loss of income it brought. That's without considering the impact on attendances in the longer term.

lewys33 · Jun 9, 2015

DazzleTommyDazzle said:
So £1.1m to wind up CCFC Ltd and how much so far in legal fees?

And after all that expenditure we're left with a short term stadium rental deal that our Chairman tells us is unsustainable. Not to mention the lost revenue from our year and a bit in exile......

One day this will form a classic Business School case study.

Obviously Timmy didn't have a Plan B in place. Or C. Or D ...........

skybluetony176 · Jun 9, 2015

lewys33 said:
Obviously Timmy didn't have a Plan B in place. Or C. Or D ...........

I'm not convinced he even had a plan A. Flying by the seat of his pants seems more likely.

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 9, 2015

DazzleTommyDazzle said:
So £1.1m to wind up CCFC Ltd and how much so far in legal fees?

And after all that expenditure we're left with a short term stadium rental deal that our Chairman tells us is unsustainable. Not to mention the lost revenue from our year and a bit in exile......

One day this will form a classic Business School case study.

I'm still not entirely convinced the club would exist, at all, if something hadn't been done.

It's the emotional, rather than the business, that makes it unacceptable. Rationally, the club should still die really...

Anyay, it's a close season, we've signed a player from Forest Green, so let's all perfect the chants to Lee Burge's Sky Blue and white hooped army.

oldskyblue58 · Jun 9, 2015

Captain Dart said:
If Otium returns remain overdue past the start of the season will that result in a points deduction next season?

I wouldn't have thought so, I think that an embargo or points deduction only relates to filing the accounts

The Annual return lists the registered office, the company secretary, the directors and the shareholders. It is just a simple information type form with a £13 fee I don't see really why it hasn't been filed. I am assuming it is an oversight on the part of the club, (failing that there is something in the directors or shares they are not ready for everyone to see). However non filing is an offence and could result in the following

Companies House will remind you that it is a criminal offence not to deliver the annual return on time and that the company and its directors could be prosecuted. This could mean the directors have a criminal record and also a £5,000 fine for each document not filed on time.

Companies House will not impose a penalty (unlike the late filing of accounts). Companies House will send increasingly threatening letters warning of removing the company from the register.

Ultimately the company will be removed from the register and if you want to keep the company you will have to pay a fee to have it restored.

DazzleTommyDazzle · Jun 9, 2015

Deleted member 5849 said:
I'm still not entirely convinced the club would exist, at all, if something hadn't been done.

That may or may not be true, but even if "something" had to done I don't believe that that justifies doing "anything".

I have no doubt that negotiating with the council/ACL was anything but easy, but the rent strike, the threatened liquidation, the "accounts being a bit of a mess", the expensive winding up of a "property owning non-trading subsidiary", the move to Sixfields, repeated ineffective costly legal action - if it didn't hurt so much you'd have to laugh.

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 9, 2015

DazzleTommyDazzle said:
That may or may not be true, but even if "something" had to done I don't believe that that justifies doing "anything".

Hence the emotional, rather than the business.

DazzleTommyDazzle · Jun 9, 2015

Deleted member 5849 said:
Hence the emotional, rather than the business.

"Emotional" in this context in football usually refers to owners who are fans and who get "carried away".

I'm not sure that anyone would apply that to JS, TF or SW. That's not to say that they have no emotional attachment at all to the club, but I can't see them having the ties of a long time supporter.

And yet, I can see where you're coming from. Many of the actions referred to above could easily be interpreted as being "emotional" - but in my view, they seem more of a somewhat childish "toys out of pram" type of emotion.

What an unkind person, like me for example, might label as unprofessional.

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 9, 2015

DazzleTommyDazzle said:
"Emotional" in this context in football usually refers to owners who are fans and who get "carried away".

I meant more why moves taken to break rent deals are met with disapproval. It's just business, after all...

The emotional decision would be to acknowledge the place of a club in community, and accept that has a price not necessarily able to be realised in a set of accounts.

DazzleTommyDazzle · Jun 9, 2015

Deleted member 5849 said:
I meant more why moves taken to break rent deals are met with disapproval. It's just business, after all...

The emotional decision would be to acknowledge the place of a club in community, and accept that has a price not necessarily able to be realised in a set of accounts.

I can only speak for myself, but beyond a degree of moral disapproval my main concern with the breaking of the rent deal was that I foresaw disaster.

I recall when one or two on here were lauding the hard nosed approach being taken by the club, I cautioned that I was concerned we were starting on a path of action that might get out of our control. Not that I ever expected things to go quite this badly....

On your wider point about the place of the club in the community, I agree entirely and would further agree that the local council has rarely (ever?) recognised that.

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 9, 2015

DazzleTommyDazzle said:
I can only speak for myself, but beyond a degree of moral disapproval my main concern with the breaking of the rent deal was that I foresaw disaster.

I recall when one or two on here were lauding the hard nosed approach being taken by the club, I cautioned that I was concerned we were starting on a path of action that might get out of our control. Not that I ever expected things to go quite this badly....

On your wider point about the place of the club in the community, I agree entirely and would further agree that the local council has rarely (ever?) recognised that.

Now I've always been of the apocalyptic view that if it were to be done, 'tis best it were done quickly, and for that I'd say there's something to be said for bringing things down fast so they can be built rather than a spiral of ever decreasing circles, with little questioning of the inevitability of disaster then, albeit a softly padded disaster. At least now (you'd hope! But the ease of which certain decisions appear to have been accepted as done, and unchanging makes me wonder!) that there would be questioning of every new dawn, and thus improve the chances of us getting a genuine new dawn.

As long as the desire for a new set of Emperors' clothes doesn't outweigh that, of course.

italiahorse · Jun 9, 2015

DazzleTommyDazzle said:
I can only speak for myself, but beyond a degree of moral disapproval my main concern with the breaking of the rent deal was that I foresaw disaster.

I recall when one or two on here were lauding the hard nosed approach being taken by the club, I cautioned that I was concerned we were starting on a path of action that might get out of our control. Not that I ever expected things to go quite this badly....

On your wider point about the place of the club in the community, I agree entirely and would further agree that the local council has rarely (ever?) recognised that.

I disagree on the last point. They baled us out at the start when we messed up on the Ricoh.

Astute · Jun 9, 2015

italiahorse said:
I disagree on the last point. They baled us out at the start when we messed up on the Ricoh.

But they also made a major mistake in not putting something in place to stop our club from making a quick buck and putting us back to not having our own place.

Grendel · Jun 9, 2015

italiahorse said:
I disagree on the last point. They baled us out at the start when we messed up on the Ricoh.

No they didn't - the amount put it was only about 6 years rent and the construct of the deal meant they could never lose financially.

That's not valuing the club in the community at all.

fernandopartridge · Jun 9, 2015

Grendel said:
No they didn't - the amount put it was only about 6 years rent and the construct of the deal meant they could never lose financially.

That's not valuing the club in the community at all.

4.5 years rent. Hard to quantify the gains they made on food and drink at the expense of CCFC over the period.

Ashdown · Jun 9, 2015

Can never understand why that rent deal didn't have relegation clauses in it at least. It was too high by about 50% I agree, but still say the club pissed so much money up the wall on poor managers who in turn bought very highly paid dross to the club. The rent could only account for 1/8th of average losses most years, that is some appalling management of the club.

Grendel · Jun 9, 2015

Ashdown said:
Can never understand why that rent deal didn't have relegation clauses in it at least. It was too high by about 50% I agree, but still say the club pissed so much money up the wall on poor managers who in turn bought very highly paid dross to the club. The rent could only account for 1/8th of average losses most years, that is some appalling management of the club.

Mginnity decided not to have a sliding scale. Such an astute guy.

italiahorse · Jun 9, 2015

Grendel said:
No they didn't - the amount put it was only about 6 years rent and the construct of the deal meant they could never lose financially.

That's not valuing the club in the community at all.

So Mr Know-it-all what would have happened if CCC had not stepped in ?

italiahorse · Jun 9, 2015

Ashdown said:
Can never understand why that rent deal didn't have relegation clauses in it at least. It was too high by about 50% I agree, but still say the club pissed so much money up the wall on poor managers who in turn bought very highly paid dross to the club. The rent could only account for 1/8th of average losses most years, that is some appalling management of the club.

Grendel said:
Mginnity decided not to have a sliding scale. Such an astute guy.

Yes, I guess a sliding scale would also include a rise for the PL and as the management at the time expected a quick return it felt like a good deal.

Grendel · Jun 9, 2015

italiahorse said:
So Mr Know-it-all what would have happened if CCC had not stepped in ?

They didn't step in -- its only because they saw a profit opportunity.

italiahorse · Jun 9, 2015

Grendel said:
They didn't step in -- its only because they saw a profit opportunity.

Of course they stepped in. Regardless of the reasoning.
So I ask again ...

So Mr Know-it-all what would have happened if CCC had not stepped in ?

Grendel · Jun 9, 2015

italiahorse said:
Of course they stepped in. Regardless of the reasoning.
So I ask again ...

So Mr Know-it-all what would have happened if CCC had not stepped in ?

The club would have had to go into admin in 2001 and against the wretched Mcginnitys wishes bought back HR

italiahorse · Jun 9, 2015

Grendel said:
The club would have had to go into admin in 2001 and against the wretched Mcginnitys wishes bought back HR

So CCC saved the day, provided 1000's of jobs and turned a derelict area of town into what it is today ?
Yet no contribution to club or community ?

mark82 · Jun 9, 2015

italiahorse said:
So CCC saved the day, provided 1000's of jobs and turned a derelict area of town into what it is today ?
Yet no contribution to club or community ?

Then moved a London rugby club in.

skyblue025 · Jun 9, 2015

I think the council expected the club to buy back its half of the stadium in fairly quick time. Unfortunately we were being run by 1/2 wits and now 14 years later that's never going to happen.

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 9, 2015

italiahorse said:
So CCC saved the day, provided 1000's of jobs and turned a derelict area of town into what it is today ?
Yet no contribution to club or community ?

lol

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 9, 2015

Mr. Dazzle, look what you started

Grendel · Jun 9, 2015

italiahorse said:
So CCC saved the day, provided 1000's of car park spaces and turned a derelict area of town into what it is today ?
Yet no contribution to club or community ?

Let's be honest here

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