VAR (1 Viewer)

Evo1883 · Aug 25, 2019

Has 2 decisions wrong today in the eyes of the vast majority.

How can this system, that's supposed to stamp out the ifs and buts, be taken seriously.

Awful for the sport

covmark · Aug 25, 2019

Totally agree. It needs to be binned. The challenge on Kane was a rugby tackle.

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Houchens Head · Aug 25, 2019

I suppose because "Hawkeye" works well in tennis, the football world thought this would be a good thing. I've watched a couple of games recently that have been interrupted because VAR had been called for. Wasted a minute or two deciding the outcome, then just carried on as if nothing had happened. So bloody annoying! Just leave the decisions to the ref and his assistants. They're not perfect, but they're human and that's what we want.

lifeskyblue · Aug 26, 2019

A complete waste of time and money. Takes away from the immediacy and passion of football. I’m convinced VAR is only there for the benefit of tv (what’s Super Sunday without Super Controversy...you got it ..boring).It’s there to give over inflated egos something else to talk(criticise) about after the game. And guess what: exactly the same as when the ref gave decisions....differences of opinion and not clear cut at all. We were all brainwashed by the lie that the game needed it, that refs need that extra help and that technology could make all the right decisions.

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Sky Blue Pete · Aug 26, 2019

It’s fine for factual decisions but not subjective ones. Goal lines and offsides are it’s remit. Possibly handball too but that rule is currently a little bit flexible

eastwoodsdustman · Aug 26, 2019

It fits with sky as lsb has said it gives them something to talk about when the games shit and getting shitter at the top level.
It’s no wonder they’ve been pushing it.
It’s killing any passion still left in the game and needs getting rid of.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Aug 26, 2019

Sky Blue Pete said:
It’s fine for factual decisions but not subjective ones. Goal lines and offsides are it’s remit. Possibly handball too but that rule is currently a little bit flexible

Agree. With handball it needs to be definitive, not subjective as to whether it was deliberate or not. Same with offsides - no active/inactive. On the pitch = active. I also think it should be allowed to bring potential red cards incidents to the refs attention, but it shouldn't make the decision itself - the ref should view the incident and make the decision.

Adge · Aug 30, 2019

Strange that most of the people who criticise refs would often use the line “all we want is consistency from referees”
Well now it’s come to fruition and they have 100% consistency. Seems they are still not happy-wonder what else there is now left to complain and find fault with.....

Houchens Head · Aug 30, 2019

Adge said:
Strange that most of the people who criticise refs would often use the line “all we want is consistency from referees”
Well now it’s come to fruition and they have 100% consistency. Seems they are still not happy-wonder what else there is now left to complain and find fault with.....

I think the ball boys should come into scrutiny. I mean, let's face it, they really need to get their act together. Some hurry to retrieve the ball, others stroll along. It should be an FA ruling that they all walk at least 4mph. And some of their hair cuts! Abysmal! They should all sport neat short, back and sides!

chiefdave · Oct 19, 2019

VAR shambles in the Spurs Watford game today. Watford had a clear penalty not given. Then Spurs score a late goal which clearly hit Ali's arm. VAR in the stadium says no goal, ref gives the goal, now being claimed they put up the wrong thing on the screen.

SBAndy · Oct 20, 2019

chiefdave said:
VAR shambles in the Spurs Watford game today. Watford had a clear penalty not given. Then Spurs score a late goal which clearly hit Ali's arm. VAR in the stadium says no goal, ref gives the goal, now being claimed they put up the wrong thing on the screen.

The incompetence is mind-blowing. In all the time that cricket has had the TMO I’ve never seen a wrong decision displayed on screen. Football has it a matter of weeks and it’s gaffe after gaffe.

Edit: of course, it’s DRS in cricket. TMO is rugby.

Sbarcher · Oct 28, 2019

As said earlier, it's fine for goal line and offsides. For "dubious" or other major incidents, the ref should look at a pitchside screen so he can make the decision, it should be his responsibility only.

SkyBlueDom26 · Oct 28, 2019

Ruining the game, get rid

Nick · Oct 28, 2019

What I dont get is if we have VAR, why are keepers still so far off their line for penalties and players in the box?

no_loyalty · Oct 28, 2019

Why doesn't the ref use the opportunity of looking at the monitor himself, instead of going with the decision of the video ref all of the time?

chiefdave · Oct 28, 2019

Don't think it needs scrapping but needs a huge rethink.

Firstly, it has to operate in a way that keeps the people actually at the game informed. You can't bring in VAR just because Sky and BT want to create some talking points.

Secondly the way it is implemented is awful. Most rules in football are down to the interpretation of the officials. You can't have the officials on the pitch making some decisions and someone hidden away in a bunker somewhere making others. Except for offside everything should be referred to the on-field officials. Fair enough have someone remote give a quick check but that should just be to tell the on-field officials there's nothing that needs looking at or they need to go and look. Then I'd put a time limit on it. As with cricket have the soft signal, the decision the officials have given on the pitch, and if within a certain time limit they can't see anything to warrant changing that then that's it. It was supposed to be clear and obvious errors, that doesn't need the game stopped for 5 mins.

Finally, offsides. There needs to be a margin of error that favours the attacking team, again follow the lead of cricket which has umpires call for things that fall within the margin of error. They simply can't tell to the degree of accuracy they are claiming. They don't know exactly when the ball leaves the foot for a start and then they have the issue of parallax viewing. You're not viewing from a camera locked off dead in line and you have a ball that is often in the air. Again, it’s supposed to eliminate clear and obvious errors so make it something like unless there is daylight between the last defender and the forward either give the attacking team the benefit of the doubt or go with the on-field decision.

Sky Blue Pete · Oct 28, 2019

It’s daft the way it’s being used.

Gazolba · Oct 28, 2019

Houchens Head said:
I think the ball boys should come into scrutiny. I mean, let's face it, they really need to get their act together. Some hurry to retrieve the ball, others stroll along. It should be an FA ruling that they all walk at least 4mph. And some of their hair cuts! Abysmal! They should all sport neat short, back and sides!

You can't mandate hair length because they now have ball girls as well and if you have different rules for boys and girls, there will be mayhem.

Gazolba · Oct 28, 2019

Nick said:
What I dont get is if we have VAR, why are keepers still so far off their line for penalties and players in the box?

Because VAR is only used for certain things and that is not one of them.

Houchens Head · Oct 28, 2019

Gazolba said:
You can't mandate hair length because they now have ball girls as well and if you have different rules for boys and girls, there will be mayhem.

It wasn't meant to be taken seriously!

Gazolba · Oct 28, 2019

chiefdave said:
Don't think it needs scrapping but needs a huge rethink.

Firstly, it has to operate in a way that keeps the people actually at the game informed. You can't bring in VAR just because Sky and BT want to create some talking points.

Secondly the way it is implemented is awful. Most rules in football are down to the interpretation of the officials. You can't have the officials on the pitch making some decisions and someone hidden away in a bunker somewhere making others. <snip>.

Remember all the fuss there used to be over disallowed goals where the ball in hindsight clearly crossed the line (Lampard against Germany being a classic example).
In my view, VAR is worth it solely to prevent those kinds of mistakes.
It's impossible for a referee, even with the help of two assistants, to see everything and you have 22 players on the pitch all intent on deceiving the officials in any way they can.
The game is it's own worst enemy, as deception increases, so does the need to detect it.
If all the players were 100% honest, there would be no need for VAR.

Adge · Oct 28, 2019

Gazolba said:
Remember all the fuss there used to be over disallowed goals where the ball in hindsight clearly crossed the line (Lampard against Germany being a classic example).
In my view, VAR is worth it solely to prevent those kinds of mistakes.
It's impossible for a referee, even with the help of two assistants, to see everything and you have 22 players on the pitch all intent on deceiving the officials in any way they can.
The game is it's own worst enemy, as deception increases, so does the need to detect it.
If all the players were 100% honest, there would be no need for VAR.

Huzzah! At last the penny is starting to drop.....

Nick · Oct 29, 2019

VAR isn't there to see if the ball crosses the line, that's the goal line technology

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Oct 29, 2019

Gazolba said:
Because VAR is only used for certain things and that is not one of them.

I'm sure a penalty save earlier in the season got retaken because VAR ruled the keeper had left his line?

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Oct 29, 2019

I think the only thing VAR should be allowed to do is inform the ref that they think he should look at the replay on the screen. They should not have the authority to overturn their decision.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Nov 3, 2019

It is starting to feel like the officials/authorities are trying to make VAR a failure or just using it to deliberately cause controversy and talking points. All the bits that make it (or equivalent systems) palatable in other sports have been totally removed. Why can't pictures/sound be transmitted into the stadium? Why aren't decisions only allowed to be overturned by the officials on the field by reviewing video on advice from the VAR ref.

Over the last few weeks they've got even worse. Decisions seem to be totally arbitrary and even more inconsistent than on field decisions. Stuff gets overturned on tiny things like a toenail offside (which isn't clear and obvious), whereas others which seem quite clear say insufficient evidence of it being a clear and obvious error. Penalty appeal in the Eve-Tot game today vs Wat-Che yesterday. Red card for Son not reviewed and overturned despite injury not being caused by his challenge. Especially given the ref initially got it right with a yellow then seemingly changed to red on seeing the injury.

Beforehand we had issues because of subjective interpretations on stuff like handballs & active/inactive but now even stuff that previously wasn't as much of a problem are becoming ones. I think a correctly used system would be a useful tool but the way it's being used at the moment I'd rather the onfield official make an honest mistake and take it on the chin. It's a VARCE.

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 3, 2019

Ins and outs and offsides that’s all. Anything else is subjective. Don’t use it until you don’t ruin the game as this is. Hate the premier league so don’t mind them screwing the competition up

Wyken Sky Blue · Nov 4, 2019

The big suits in the Premier League need to watch a few Rugby matches where the TMO was used heavily and change the rules for next season.

1. Show the TMO playback on the screens in the ground and the pitchside monitors so everyone can see what is happening
2. Only use it when the referee/linesman is not 100% sure of the decision made
3. Most importantly, the 'on field' referee makes the final decison

Do this for a few years and it will cut review times to a minimum and make the game better.

SBAndy · Nov 4, 2019

skyblue1991 said:
The big suits in the Premier League need to watch a few Rugby matches where the TMO was used heavily and change the rules for next season.

1. Show the TMO playback on the screens in the ground and the pitchside monitors so everyone can see what is happening
2. Only use it when the referee/linesman is not 100% sure of the decision made
3. Most importantly, the 'on field' referee makes the final decison

Do this for a few years and it will cut review times to a minimum and make the game better.

Agree with this, don’t really understand why they don’t show stuff on the big screen. Obviously it makes sense for those in VAR HQ to bring the referee’s attention to incidents he may have missed/incorrectly interpreted but, as you say, follow rugby’s example where the TMO is generally implemented very successfully.

One thing I have real trouble with is the camera angles for offside decisions being awful. Surely in this age of tech you could have semi-autonomous cameras that move up and down the touch line in line with the 2nd last defender. Really wouldn’t be difficult to implement and would give the correct angle to make offside calls. Just have all the players wearing a chip of some sort so the cameras can distinguish between the two teams.

Houchens Head · Nov 4, 2019

SBAndy said:
Just have all the players wearing a chip of some sort so the cameras can distinguish between the two teams.

Nah! Too many play with a chip on their shoulder already!

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Nov 4, 2019

Sky Blue Pete said:
Ins and outs and offsides that’s all. Anything else is subjective. Don’t use it until you don’t ruin the game as this is. Hate the premier league so don’t mind them screwing the competition up

Seeing the reasoning by the PL (I say 'reasoning', I mean excuses) has just made it worse. Just making shit up now to justify decisions. Have we reached the point where the PL has disappeared up it's own arse and is going to start putting people off?

Adge · Nov 4, 2019

That was a strange one. Yellow card for the challenge was fair enough as it was reckless which is a caution, fair enough. But to then change it to a red card because of the extent of the injury is idiocy. Even I (and I’m on his side) was baffled with what Martin Atkinson has done there. Only thing I can think of is it wasn’t Atkinson himself who had the final say.

SBAndy · Feb 23, 2020

Back to it’s blistering best yesterday with Bournemouth’s first disallowed goal. Corner flicked on and seemingly hit Billing on the shoulder but VAR decides it is his arm. Absolutely no way you can say with any certainty.

no_loyalty · Feb 23, 2020

Another incident in the Chelsea v Spurs game, where a stamp by a Spurs player went unpunished after a VAR check, only for them to admit they got it wrong half way through the second half.

Nick · Feb 23, 2020

no_loyalty said:
Another incident in the Chelsea v Spurs game, where a stamp by a Spurs player went unpunished after a VAR check, only for them to admit they got it wrong half way through the second half.

Exactly. They had multiple replays, how can they get it wrong?

Just shows its the pricks using it who are the issue.

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