Venus, not good enough for Division One (9 Viewers)

skybluetony176 · Nov 21, 2016

Grendel said:
I'm sure Scunthorpe and Rochdale pay a fortune in wages for their teams.

Rochdale are a good example of what can be achieved in this league on a smaller budget I'll give you that. What you have to recognise is that they have a steady board room who act in the best interest of the club and the club alone and a manager who has been allowed time to build. It's an environment that leads to success and the possibility of overachievement.

We on the other hand have SISU, a merry go round of a board room with each appointment being worse than the last and a revolving door for managers. Not an environment for success and is more likely to lead to underachieving not overachieving. That's exactly what we've got to. You reap what you sow. SISU out. It's our only chance.

Scunthorpe on current form have the best manager in the league and I wish him all the best. I bet their boardroom hasn't been as manic as ours either over the same period SISU have been here.

covcity4life · Nov 21, 2016

rochdale were bottom and kept their manager. he turned it around

shame tm left, he would have done same but he couldnt see it silly old man lol

Gazolba · Nov 21, 2016

All we can afford are youngsters learning their trade or has-beens in pre-retirement. We need to unearth more mature players with potential in the lower divisions.

dongonzalos · Nov 21, 2016

Has every manager we had over the last 8 years been poor?
Or has our budget ever affected things?
Are we just really really bad at picking managers.
If so do we need to change the person picking the managers, if it's all down to mangers and not budgets?

Ash · Nov 21, 2016

covcity4life said:
rochdale were bottom and kept their manager. he turned it around

shame tm left, he would have done same but he couldnt see it silly old man lol

Give it a rest mate, TM was taking this team down and everyone could see it!

Grendel · Nov 22, 2016

dongonzalos said:
Has every manager we had over the last 8 years been poor?
Or has our budget ever affected things?
Are we just really really bad at picking managers.
If so do we need to change the person picking the managers, if it's all down to mangers and not budgets?

Why do you mention 8 years? We had many managers the 8 years before that.

stevefloyd · Nov 22, 2016

I think all of TM's signings have been very poor, its ok buying players like Jones etc to develop IF we already have a team but we didn't, the lad is expected to come in and perform like a seasoned pro which obviously he isn't, Sordell has hardly set the footballing world alight with his goal scoring prowess throughout his career so why did TM et al think he could come in and suddenly expect to score bucket load of goals, he/we got lucky with Armstrong but with TM's recruting skills we have actually got a worse team than before...As I have said before we need to get someone in who has a clue about a team and can get the best out of players, get into their heads and get them to perform better than they think they are capable of...fuck all the yes men and bull shitting managers out there...we need a proper footballing man to come in and appoint a real man manager not someone who talks a good game !!! going to shag another bird now to calm down again ...high blood pressures good for some things though

singers_pore · Nov 22, 2016

MV said he has no idea if he has any money to strengthen the squad when the window re-opens. Leaving the manager in the dark would be bad under normal circumstances but in our case MV is also a member of the board of directors. I wonder when the board last held a meeting? The club is an utter shambles and the responsibility for that starts at the top in the boardroom. The club has had far too many part-timers who are unwilling to put in the hours to turn the club around.

Porkchophill · Nov 22, 2016

A manager should install belief in his players whether he thinks they are good enough or not , to come out in public and say they are not good enough is a fucking disgrace, and a Kop out . On Saturday that was the worse performance I've seen from a city team , completely bullied , outfought devoid of any desire or formation , not surprising really when the bloke who brought most of them here's team talk must of contained motivational things like you ain't good enough but give it a go . If you win this 1 we don't expect you to win the next few what a c**t

covcity4life · Nov 22, 2016

Ash said:
Give it a rest mate, TM was taking this team down and everyone could see it!

i am allowed to give my opinion. you think because most dont agree i should just keep quiet?

what if martin luther king had done the same?!

*yes i just compared myself to mlk*

lifeskyblue · Nov 22, 2016

covcity4life said:
i am allowed to give my opinion. you think because most dont agree i should just keep quiet?

what if martin luther king had done the same?!

*yes i just compared myself to mlk*

'I have a dream' also but mine purely rests on finding the right owners to find the right manager to train the right players to get us out of this division. Then I wake and realise it's a nightmare where we have no ground, owners without a clue, a manager who hasn't got used to managing yet and players who aren't of the quality to keep us in the division.
I'm just hoping the players can develop a little both in skill and confidence as well as physique and desire. I'm hoping the manager can settle on a side, play players in their best positions, motivate them to give everything they can and take a risk occasionally. I'm hoping the owners either go quickly or take the running of CCFC seriously and for the benefit of the club. I have faith that the players and manager can do this but I have no faith the owners will deliver. Therefore I can't see any real progress at the club other than bouncing along in league three for the foreseeable future.
As for the fans...we are the most long suffering fans in English professional football...not a top six finish in longer than most supporters can remember (I'm one of the lucky ones), a club that has ignored the interest of its fans and played outside of its home on a whim, came back and effectively lost any chance of owning its own ground. A club going nowhere, playing mediocre football at best to slowly declining numbers. A fan base divided and disillusioned on all matters.
We live in Leicester...my youngest is 14 and he is sky blue (he has had a season ticket for 6years). I'm too old to change my allegiance but I honestly wouldn't be too upset (well perhaps a bit) today if he said he would rather go and watch the foxes than suffer more of the same up at the Ricoh.

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covcity4life · Nov 22, 2016

keep the faith. one day we will have our day in the sun

Otis · Nov 22, 2016

Yeah, it will be following a players' night of drunken debauchery and it'll be in the Mirror and Star too.

Ash · Nov 22, 2016

covcity4life said:
i am allowed to give my opinion. you think because most dont agree i should just keep quiet?

what if martin luther king had done the same?!

*yes i just compared myself to mlk*

Of course not, you are entitled to an opinion as much as anyone else. I just think that to keep bringing it up is counter productive. TM isn't coming back so we should move forward and concentrate cleaning up the mess that he (and MV!) got us in!

covcity4life · Nov 22, 2016

Ash said:
Of course not, you are entitled to an opinion as much as anyone else. I just think that to keep bringing it up is counter productive. TM isn't coming back so we should move forward and concentrate cleaning up the mess that he (and MV!) got us in!

but the thread was talking about scunthrope and how they changed their fortunes around. its perfectly fine to mention they kept their manager and he turned it around

fernandopartridge · Nov 22, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
Rochdale are a good example of what can be achieved in this league on a smaller budget I'll give you that. What you have to recognise is that they have a steady board room who act in the best interest of the club and the club alone and a manager who has been allowed time to build. It's an environment that leads to success and the possibility of overachievement.

We on the other hand have SISU, a merry go round of a board room with each appointment being worse than the last and a revolving door for managers. Not an environment for success and is more likely to lead to underachieving not overachieving. That's exactly what we've got to. You reap what you sow. SISU out. It's our only chance.

Scunthorpe on current form have the best manager in the league and I wish him all the best. I bet their boardroom hasn't been as manic as ours either over the same period SISU have been here.

SISU are poor owners, but we're not the only club to change managers regularly. Scunthorpe have had 8 managers since 2010!

Rochdale's steadiness includes living within their means, the club and the stadium appear to be owned by separate companies.. The stadium management company was a 45/55 joint venture in favour of the local council, but it appears that the football club has now bought this out by way of a council loan which is a charge over the company.

The fans demand 'ambition' but what is really needed is 'realism' and that comes from the manager (and the board above him). I think the appointment of Mowbray looked ambitious but was out of kilter with the club's actual position.

Nick · Nov 22, 2016

fernandopartridge said:
SISU are poor owners, but we're not the only club to change managers regularly. Scunthorpe have had 8 managers since 2010!

Rochdale's steadiness includes living within their means, the club and the stadium appear to be owned by separate companies.. The stadium management company was a 45/55 joint venture in favour of the local council, but it appears that the football club has now bought this out by way of a council loan which is a charge over the company.

The fans demand 'ambition' but what is really needed is 'realism' and that comes from the manager (and the board above him). I think the appointment of Mowbray looked ambitious but was out of kilter with the club's actual position.

Realism is a big issue.

Ash · Nov 22, 2016

covcity4life said:
but the thread was talking about scunthrope and how they changed their fortunes around. its perfectly fine to mention they kept their manager and he turned it around

Difference is that Graham Alexander had lots of experience of managing in the lower leagues with Fleetwood, having been there for 3 years. This would've been known by the Scunthorpe board and fans so they would've been more inclined to stick by him if things weren't going so well. As opposed to Mowbray having little to no experience of managing this far down the ladder, his signings being proof that he had no real idea of what was needed to compete in this league.

Anyway, saying that, Alexander was appointed as manager at Scunny in March this year and they did pretty well at the back end of last season. Their results in the final 14 games from the 1st March-8th May were W8 D5 L1. So I'm not sure why it's being mentioned that he was allowed to be kept on and change their fortunes around when their results have been consistently good since he was appointed

covcity4life · Nov 22, 2016

sorry i meant rochdale lol

Glen · Nov 22, 2016

Not teally what your manager should say but very true

skybluetony176 · Nov 22, 2016

dongonzalos said:
Has every manager we had over the last 8 years been poor?
Or has our budget ever affected things?
Are we just really really bad at picking managers.
If so do we need to change the person picking the managers, if it's all down to mangers and not budgets?

I don't think it's purely down to budget or manager choice Dong, although both are important factors in there own right. It's everything that's the issue. The club is a toxic environment from top to bottom that can only ever breed long term failure. Simple things that were left to rot for god knows how long like showers not working at Ryton, no identity at Ryton. Bigger things like no scouting network. Then you've got the constant mix messages from the board room and if it's not a mixed message something that inevitably gets proved to complete hog wash. We're a shambles of a club that like the British car industry of the 70's and 80's is suffering from bad management consistently at every level. Wholesale change is the only hope for the club.

fernandopartridge · Nov 22, 2016

Realism to me doesn't mean accepting that we're a League 1 club forever. It means accepting that we need to do things differently, we need to stop behaving like a L1 club that has just been relegated and is hoping for a quick return to the Championship. Each manager keeps trying to build without laying any foundations.
We need a manager that understands that we need to be steadied for a season or two not trying to fluke a promotion but with a settled squad to be added to with loanees only where they add quality and permanent signings to augment and replace where necessary.

skybluetony176 · Nov 22, 2016

Nick said:
Realism is a big issue.

You're right. Realistically SISU need to go before any long term sustainable success comes to the club.

italiahorse · Nov 22, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
You're right. Realistically SISU need to go before any long term sustainable success comes to the club.

Agree. Nobody wants to deal with them.
They will only release the club at the top of the cycle.
In reality we will never get there so we are stuck with them.
They want more than the club is worth and potential owners will never take on the debt. Why would they ?

Ash · Nov 22, 2016

covcity4life said:
sorry i meant rochdale lol

Aah, all that arduous research for nothing!

covcity4life · Nov 22, 2016

Ash said:
Aah, all that arduous research for nothing!

i felt guilty after i read it!

was a good post though if it makes you feel better!

Ash · Nov 22, 2016

covcity4life said:
i felt guilty after i read it!

was a good post though if it makes you feel better!

Thanks. Still might have a little weep though!

clint van damme · Nov 22, 2016

italiahorse said:
Agree. Nobody wants to deal with them.
They will only release the club at the top of the cycle.
In reality we will never get there so we are stuck with them.
They want more than the club is worth and potential owners will never take on the debt. Why would they ?

I thought wasps were going to buy us?

italiahorse · Nov 22, 2016

clint van damme said:
I thought wasps were going to buy us?

No just the name.

dongonzalos · Nov 22, 2016

Grendel said:
Why do you mention 8 years? We had many managers the 8 years before that.

Because I have questioned the people who are picking the manager. Didn't think I would need to explain that point thought it was quite obvious

Grendel · Nov 22, 2016

dongonzalos said:
Because I have questioned the people who are picking the manager. Didn't think I would need to explain that point thought it was quite obvious

So the same person who recruited Coleman recruited Mowbray? Doubt it. Also under these owners average manager stay in office isn't any different to any prior regime is it?

Ibby · Nov 22, 2016

Venus out.

dongonzalos · Nov 22, 2016

Grendel said:
So the same person who recruited Coleman recruited Mowbray? Doubt it. Also under these owners average manager stay in office isn't any different to any prior regime is it?

SISU took over in 2007 in the 9 years they have had ownership we are on our 8th permanent manager.
Just shy of 1 a year.

The previous 15 years there had only been 10 permanent managers.

Let's see where we are after 15 years!

Fact is chairmen have changed board directors have changed grounds have changed, academy locations have changed. Managers have changed, budgets have changed. Many many players have changed.
Only one thing has been constant Joy Seppalla, Dermot Coleman and more recent Tim Fisher have been the only constant denominator in this particular cycle of failure.

4waspsting · Nov 23, 2016

Fuck the budget its all about building a side, scouting for new talent, then getting on with it, unfortunately no c**t seems to know how to do it .

Grendel · Nov 23, 2016

dongonzalos said:
SISU took over in 2007 in the 9 years they have had ownership we are on our 8th permanent manager.
Just shy of 1 a year.

The previous 15 years there had only been 10 permanent managers.

Let's see where we are after 15 years!

Fact is chairmen have changed board directors have changed grounds have changed, academy locations have changed. Managers have changed, budgets have changed. Many many players have changed.
Only one thing has been constant Joy Seppalla, Dermot Coleman and more recent Tim Fisher have been the only constant denominator in this particular cycle of failure.

Venus isn't permenant. Hate to ruin your theory but post premier relegation we've had more permenant managers pre sisu than post. They keep managers longer than prior owners of the club and most last longer than the football league average.

Venus, not good enough for Division One (9 Viewers)

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