Waggot & Fisher - Again (10 Viewers)

skyblueman · Sep 19, 2012

Sorry but I'm still convinced these two are clueless

New Manager: Taken far too long - season is ruined already
New Manager: Waggot obviously wanted Ince over all the others - clueless
New Manager: Fisher - wouldn't agree terms - clueless - spineless
Shaw: Hired by Waggot - obviously not contributing - why is he here?
Stadium: Rent fiasco - not resolved - Fisher - clueless
Team: Awful - Waggot approved most of these - clueless
Bonuses: Terrible handling wrong move - Fisher - clueless
Losses: Biggest ever % of turnover
League Position: Lowest in living memory
Attendances: Lowest Ever

Waggot doesn't know what he's doing football wise
Fisher is only interested in looking after Fisher NOT CCFC

If this pair had really wanted INCE then they should have had the balls to make sure they got him and not allowed themselves to be artificially restricted by some stupid budget they agreed with SISU

After last weeks big love-in how do you feel now about this pair?

dantheman · Sep 19, 2012

They didn't do a bad job at Charlton.

Grendel · Sep 19, 2012

How do you think they fared at Charlton?

valiant15 · Sep 19, 2012

Useless twats the pair of them.

stevo_ccfc · Sep 19, 2012

Shaw was brought to the club on thorns request

Nick · Sep 19, 2012

I love how the players are only Waggots fault but when they play well they are Thorn's Gems.

skyblueman · Sep 19, 2012

stevo_ccfc said:
Shaw was brought to the club on thorns request

Sanctioned by Waggot

Reynolds_121 · Sep 19, 2012

Get a grip.

Tank Top · Sep 19, 2012

valiant15 said:
Useless twats the pair of

"As Good as that" you think!

scroobiustom · Sep 19, 2012

skyblueman said:
Sorry but I'm still convinced these two are clueless

New Manager: Taken far too long - season is ruined already
New Manager: Waggot obviously wanted Ince over all the others - clueless
New Manager: Fisher - wouldn't agree terms - clueless - spineless
Shaw: Hired by Waggot - obviously not contributing - why is he here?
Stadium: Rent fiasco - not resolved - Fisher - clueless
Team: Awful - Waggot approved most of these - clueless
Bonuses: Terrible handling wrong move - Fisher - clueless
Losses: Biggest ever % of turnover
League Position: Lowest in living memory
Attendances: Lowest Ever

Waggot doesn't know what he's doing football wise
Fisher is only interested in looking after Fisher NOT CCFC

If this pair had really wanted INCE then they should have had the balls to make sure they got him and not allowed themselves to be artificially restricted by some stupid budget they agreed with SISU

After last weeks big love-in how do you feel now about this pair?

The team & the staff is not really their fault - Thorn's players, Thorn's staff = hindsight is a wonderful thing!

The attendances were always going to drop it is league 1 = if tickets were free I doubt they would sell out

Sacking Thorn was a fiasco anyway, should of gone at the end of last season but I don't see how these two are the only parties responsible for that

Other then these points I agree however

Chipfat · Sep 19, 2012

SW sanctioned every signing, including the backroom staff ,, so they are responsable.

Please dont defend these two they have no idea what they are doing, SISU have put these two in charge and at this time the only change that has happend is we are getting worse..

SISU must be seriously looking at this money losing venture and wonder how and if they can get out... 3 year plan my arse in 3 years with these at the helm we will be playing Bedworth.....

davebart · Sep 19, 2012

It is impossible to tell how good people are because of the financial constraints placed on the club. If their first concern was not the budget they would be out of the job in 5 minutes.

It is the budget that will affect how this club performs. Our league position has reflected the constant downward expenditure and will continue to do so until there is any real investment in the team.

stevo_ccfc · Sep 19, 2012

skyblueman said:
Sanctioned by Waggot

I wanted a new car, my bank sanctioned the loan, my new car is shit, by your logic thats my banks fault?

valiant15 · Sep 19, 2012

Isn't waggot a so called director of football? I'm sure i read somewhere that any new manager would have to report to waggot regarding signings etc?

Grendel · Sep 19, 2012

Chipfat said:
SW sanctioned every signing, including the backroom staff ,, so they are responsable.

Please dont defend these two they have no idea what they are doing, SISU have put these two in charge and at this time the only change that has happend is we are getting worse..

SISU must be seriously looking at this money losing venture and wonder how and if they can get out... 3 year plan my arse in 3 years with these at the helm we will be playing Bedworth.....

Are Charlton playing Bedworth?

skyblueman · Sep 19, 2012

stevo_ccfc said:
I wanted a new car, my bank sanctioned the loan, my new car is shit, by your logic thats my banks fault?

But Waggot is the FOOTBALL expert in the club's senior management - Fisher needs him as he doesn't know that side of the business well enough and needs an EXPERT he can trust

So Waggot HAS to be responsible - seriously after Thorn taking the team down last season and having to beg to keep his job - do you imagine for one minute they wouldn't have consider, questioned and approved every single decision Thorn made? Thorn was under the microscope all summer - of course Waggot was intimately involved - that's his job and that's why he is responsible

valiant15 · Sep 19, 2012

Duffy,we don't care about charlton,we're city fans.

sky blue zam · Sep 19, 2012

i agree with changing bonuses

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Sep 19, 2012

sky blue zam said:
i agree with changing bonuses

But the way they've gone about it seems to have caused major upset, doesn't it?

Nick · Sep 19, 2012

If the signings weren't allowed then Thorn would be the victim that he wasn't allowed to sign his targets, when he does sign them and they play poorly it is Waggot's fault for allowing it?

I am not saying the Waggot is blameless in anything, but there is a bigger picture as if we were top of the league and Elliott had scored 10 goals Thorn would have been the genius who got them in.

lordsummerisle · Sep 19, 2012

Nick said:
If the signings weren't allowed then Thorn would be the victim that he wasn't allowed to sign his targets, when he does sign them and they play poorly it is Waggot's fault for allowing it?

I am not saying the Waggot is blameless in anything, but there is a bigger picture as if we were top of the league and Elliott had scored 10 goals Thorn would have been the genius who got them in.

He was the genius who brought them in after the Birmingham game.

skyblueman · Sep 19, 2012

Nick said:
If the signings weren't allowed then Thorn would be the victim that he wasn't allowed to sign his targets, when he does sign them and they play poorly it is Waggot's fault for allowing it?

I am not saying the Waggot is blameless in anything, but there is a bigger picture as if we were top of the league and Elliott had scored 10 goals Thorn would have been the genius who got them in.

Waggot would get credit for Football side as well if we were performing - it works both ways

Same as Fisher if financially he turns it round

Nobody would be more pleased than me if this happens

Reality is so far they are not performing either - by any measure you wish to take both are failing the club

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Sep 19, 2012

Let me put it this way, Waggott was brought to the club - on a part-time basis - by Fisher in December to 'help Andy Thorn in the transfer market'. Forget who signed who for a moment, as that's another issue.

In the critical January transfer window, and the loan window that followed, we signed two players - both unknown kids. And let us not forget we sold our top scorer.

Meanwhile, our relegation peers, Bristol City and Millwall signed many, many more players. Millwall, has 8 loan players and paid cash for players such as Keogh from Wolves. Bristol City had 9 loan players, of whom 6 were signed in the 'winter window'. I've posted the link about Nottingham Forest before, but let me do so again:

http://www.football-league.co.uk/ch...l-hails-forests-loan-signings_2293322_2718770

In what way has Waggott earned the plaudits he has? Did he perform as well as his opposite numbers as the clubs we were fighting against? What did he do so remarkable to earn him the title of Director of Football from his temporary position?

lordsummerisle · Sep 19, 2012

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Let me put it this way, Waggott was brought to the - on a part-time basis - club by Fisher in December to 'help Andy Thorn in the transfer market'. Forget who signed who for a moment, as that's another issue.

In the critical January transfer window, and the loan window that followed, we signed two players - both unknown kids. And let us not forget we sold our top scorer.

Meanwhile, our relegation peers, Bristol City and Millwall signed many, many more players. Millwall, has 8 loan players and paid cash for players such as Keogh from Wolves. Bristol City had 9 loan players, of whom 6 were signed in the 'winter window'. I've posted the link about Nottingham Forest before, but let me do so again:

http://www.football-league.co.uk/ch...l-hails-forests-loan-signings_2293322_2718770

In what way has Waggott earned the plaudits he has? Did he perform as well as his opposite numbers as the clubs we were fighting against? What did he do so remarkable to earn him the title of Director of Football from his temporary position?

Surely we should have performed much better against these teams as they had to get a lot of new players to gel at a critical time of the season whereas we were more settled?

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Sep 19, 2012

lordsummerisle said:
Surely we should have performed much better against these teams as they had to get a lot of new players to gel at a critical time of the season whereas we were more settled?

No; you're either being disingenuous or simply playing devil's advocate (badly) here. We were playing poorly - had been bereft of every slither of quality we had, as King, Westwood, Gunnarsson and Turner had all left in the summer - we were just about to sell our leading scorer and the squad (who were playing more kids in more positions than any other team in the league - 50% more games than the next closest team, Derby), and we needed a boost. Fresh legs, fresh ideas, fresh impetus. And all the other clubs that did invest so reaped the benefits.

So, your argument is that Waggott deliberately signed few players so as to leave Thorn a settled small squad to concentrate upon?

Nick · Sep 19, 2012

I don't think anybody is saying how great Waggot is, they are just saying why are they brought in by Thorn when they are good (after the birmingham game I am sure there was a Thorn's leaving present thread where people were raving) but now they aren't playing well it is all down to Waggot because he approved them.

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Sep 19, 2012

Nick said:
I don't think anybody is saying how great Waggott is, they are just saying why are they brought in by Thorn when they are good (after the Birmingham game I am sure there was a Thorn's leaving present thread where people were raving) but now they aren't playing well it is all down to Waggot because he approved them.

With the greatest of respect Nick, people are. The day after the Fans Farce - sorry, Forum - there was a thread on here about Fisher and Waggott being the 'right men for the job' with plenty of folk in enthusiastic accord. This being a few days before it's revealed we can't even afford the number one managerial choice they've interviewed twice.

My point being, I've seen nothing to instill any confidence in me whatsoever

TheSnoz · Sep 19, 2012

I watched the game last night from the main stand at Shrewsbury and as far as I could see neither Waggot or Fisher were playing. (Though it might have been an improvement if they were.)
The same players that have been praised at times in past few weeks - Baker, Jordan Clark, Jennings, Edge, Elliott (even), Barton (even), Wood etc etc - were atrocious. There has got to be something to this 'bonus' rumour. Who in their right mind would pay this lot in washers?
Making Waggott and Fisher scapegoats doesn't make sense. At a time when the football public of the city have largely turned their backs on the club - they're trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. We just don't know what goes on behind the scenes. NONE of us knows. They've apparently halved the monthly debt. Put the academy on a better footing. Tried to inject some fresh life into the club with a new manager. Nothing perfect for sure. I'm no SISU fan. But making them scapegoats is pathetic.
What is brilliant is the fact of those few hardy souls who turned up to back their team last night. From my seat it looked like 400. I'm told it was 600+ . Absolutely brilliant. I salute you all. After the debacle of Tranmere it took some doing.

Grendel · Sep 19, 2012

Nick said:
I don't think anybody is saying how great Waggot is, they are just saying why are they brought in by Thorn when they are good (after the birmingham game I am sure there was a Thorn's leaving present thread where people were raving) but now they aren't playing well it is all down to Waggot because he approved them.

Thorn even had some on trial. Was it waggot who ought them? Perhaps he does the training as well and perhaps he decides the tactics.

Grendel · Sep 19, 2012

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
With the greatest of respect Nick, people are. The day after the Fans Farce - sorry, Forum - there was a thread on here about Fisher and Waggott being the 'right men for the job' with plenty of folk in enthusiastic accord. This being a few days before it's revealed we can't even afford the number one managerial choice they've interviewed twice.

My point being, I've seen nothing to instill any confidence in me whatsoever

They made one mistake. They should have turfed thorn out last May. Perhaps they took notice of some experts like you and gave him a bit longer.

It will take months to unravel the mess he has made.

Nick · Sep 19, 2012

I can't believe Waggot is being blamed for backing Thorn and letting him being players in.

DazzleTommyDazzle · Sep 19, 2012

Nick said:
I don't think anybody is saying how great Waggot is, they are just saying why are they brought in by Thorn when they are good (after the birmingham game I am sure there was a Thorn's leaving present thread where people were raving) but now they aren't playing well it is all down to Waggot because he approved them.

The forum is a place where people pretty much post their own views and choose their evidence (or their spin on it) to support those views.

So, you're correct that after the B'ham game a number of "pro-Thorn" posters said what a good job he'd done in bringing in such players. The "anti-Thorn" posters then came out saying that Shaw/Carsley/Waggot had played major parts in finding the players and the credit shouldn't be given to Thorn.

Four (awful) games later and the stances have been reveresed.

It shouldn't be a shock - it's not like anyone comes on here expecting intellectual debate

skyblueman · Sep 19, 2012

Grendel said:
They made one mistake. They should have turfed thorn out last May. Perhaps they took notice of some experts like you and gave him a bit longer.

It will take months to unravel the mess he has made.

Pretty big one though wasn't it...

Obviously it's not all down to Waggot but I'm sorry I cannot stomach this stance they take like innocent victims of Thorn's mistakes

THEY are in charge - Waggot is the Football Brains - we are in the shit - Waggot has to take some of that blame

Neither of these two key men have yet to bring any degree of success to the club.. time is not on our side

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Sep 19, 2012

Grendel said:
They made one mistake. They should have turfed thorn out last May. Perhaps they took notice of some experts like you and gave him a bit longer.

It will take months to unravel the mess he has made.

What if they'd have given him 7 league games? Could he have done any worse? And the mess created is that of Fisher and Waggott. They first off hold overall authority for the running of the club, so if the manager was as bad as you assert they hold ultimate responsibility for his performance. And they've permitted a migration of talent from this club from last summer on wards which has led directly to our current position. Yet you herald them as some saviours :facepalm:

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Sep 19, 2012

Nick said:
I can't believe Waggott is being blamed for backing Thorn and letting him being players in.

He has overall responsibility. Do you have any idea how management works? He should have backed him or sacked him. Backing him isn't defined by three league games. Sacking him would have meant we would have completed the managerial appointment over the summer.

He did neither and thus has to take responsibility for where we are

Waggot & Fisher - Again (10 Viewers)

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