Waggot & Fisher - Again (4 Viewers)

Waggott is Development Director.

At Charlton he was a troubleshooter type.He implemented cost cutting and according to their fans he did pretty well and got the Club onto a more stable footing.They didn't like some of the cuts at the time,(car parking etc.),but it worked.They stopped leaking money like a drain and could invest more on the pitch.

Lets give them some time to see if they can replicate it here.

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:

He has overall responsibility. Do you have any idea how management works? He should have backed him or sacked him. Backing him isn't defined by three league games. Sacking him would have meant we would have completed the managerial appointment over the summer.

He did neither and thus has to take responsibility for where we are

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I genuinely wish that Thorn had been given a bit more time.

Would have at least settled matters in all fans eyes if he'd been allowed to totally fail for a few more games, unfortunately for some he's always going to be "The King across the water", rather than "The Great Pretender"

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:

He has overall responsibility. Do you have any idea how management works? He should have backed him or sacked him. Backing him isn't defined by three league games. Sacking him would have meant we would have completed the managerial appointment over the summer.

He did neither and thus has to take responsibility for where we are

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I do agree that he should have got a new manager in the summer rather than waste time letting Thorn bring people in then get rid.

I am also not saying he is the best thing since sliced bread, just find it funny how he is being blamed for the players when they play badly but Thorn is a genius when they play well. They probably both sat down with a list and Waggot haggled for them to get the best deal, that is the way I understand it would have worked.

Nick said:

I do agree that he should have got a new manager in the summer rather than waste time letting Thorn bring people in then get rid.

I am also not saying he is the best thing since sliced bread, just find it funny how he is being blamed for the players when they play badly but Thorn is a genius when they play well. They probably both sat down with a list and Waggot haggled for them to get the best deal, that is the way I understand it would have worked.

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To quote: 'Andy gave me a list of players and I went out and got them for him'. There would've been trust from Waggott's side that Thorn had done his homework on these players and would be able to deliver with them-if he didn't, Thorn would've gone after Southampton. Clearly this trust was misplaced and now there's an almighty mess to sort out, which has been exacerbated by the indecision of the 'selection panel'.

lordsummerisle said:

I genuinely wish that Thorn had been given a bit more time.

Would have at least settled matters in all fans eyes if he'd been allowed to totally fail for a few more games, unfortunately for some he's always going to be "The King across the water", rather than "The Great Pretender"

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I don't think that we have another Eric Black situation here.

I think that that were many who thought that Thorn was doing a difficult job in what were pretty awaful circumstances and felt that some balance had to be set against some of the more vitriolic posters.

I wouldn't have been surprised if he'd gone in the summer, but did find it strange that he was allowed to assemble (or to at least be heavily involved in assembling) a squad only to be sacked after 3 games - 2 of which (draw at Yeovil and draw at home to Sheff Utd), I thought were OK results.

Last night was grim. Walking away from the ground, my one hope was that this is our latter day "Kings Lynn moment" - not sure that there's another JH out there though and even if there were, I don't think anyone believes that SISU would support him in the way that Derrick Robins supported the blessed Jimmy.

The only mistake that they have made so far was not sacking Thorn sooner.

DazzleTommyDazzle said:

I think that that were many who thought that Thorn was doing a difficult job in what were pretty awaful circumstances and felt that some balance had to be set against some of the more vitriolic posters.

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What about those posters who genuinely believed that he was one of the latest brightest managers in the game and that we would be lucky to hold onto him? There was even talk of him being snapped up by a Premier League club and that he was our greatest manager since Sillett.

Not to mention the laughable comments about storming the league with WHU and gaining promotion months before the seasons had finished. Imagine the Hammers' reaction to the post-match interviews.

Sick Boy said:

The only mistake that they have made so far was not sacking Thorn sooner.

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And not getting in as many players as our relagation peers in January? And missing out on our prime summer transfer targets as they couldn't get their employers to agree to continue funding us, leaving us in embargo? And the farce and distraction of us being in court for with-holding rent? And the timing, plus dithering after sacking the manager?

Come on; at least gave the good grace to see the effect they are having on this club

Sick Boy said:

What about those posters who genuinely believed that he was one of the latest brightest managers in the game and that we would be lucky to hold onto him? There was even talk of him being snapped up by a Premier League club and that he was our greatest manager since Sillett.

Not to mention the laughable comments about storming the league with WHU and gaining promotion months before the seasons had finished.

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This is not yet another Thorn debate. It's whether these two are giving any manager the platform they need to get this club - our club - back to where it belongs

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:

This is not yet another Thorn debate. It's whether these two are giving any manager the platform they need to get this club - our club - back to where it belongs

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Considering we have one of the highest budgets in the league, yes they are. According to many, all that mattered was the amount of money that a team has to play with.

As I said, the only mistake they have made was keeping old Thorny on for too long, because now the season is already a write off.

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:

?Come on; at least gave the good grace to see the effect they are having on this club

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Of course they are not ideal but we haven't had an 'ideal' owner for a long time. Now many seem to have conveniently forgotten who got the club into this mess in the first place, the rot had already started long before SISU even got here.

Who would you rather have here? Richardson? Robinson? Mike Mcginnity? Ken Dulieu?

People are posting some very good points which I can see both sides of the coin. Problem for me does not lie with Fisher or Waggot, they have backed the manager, the only issue to be resolved is were they Thorns choice and we will probably never get the answer to that. I wont apportion blame to Shaw either, I was lucky enough to spend time with him in the same hotel while he was still playing for us under Strachan. He embodied everything good about football back then, he was proud to play for us, understood he was in a privelaged position, respected the fans and took pride in what he achieved on and off the pitch, and adored his wife and young family. You then put him in temporary charge of a bunch of over paid, self centered, conceited, spoilt children commonly known as the modern proffesional footballer. We spend a large proportion of our money on following the team we love, and they dont care because they dont have any attatchment to the club, they dont love it like we do, they love their money and what it brings them, they are just financial mercanaries who hire themselves out for the greatest reward. I have been in sales for 25 years and get rewarded for over achievment not under achievment, I dont earn money for just turning up, I am incentivised to make me over achieve. Its not just a problem within our club its a problem across all the leagues, take Arsenal, how does Theo Walcott think he is worth more than 75k a week when he is on the bench! Ask Sammy Clingan if he is in financial hardship as he is presently unemployed, you will probably find out that he is not to bothered as he has no mortgage and cash in the bank just for turning up. Its no wonder people like Richard Shaw and for that fact Waggot and Fisher, cant communicate with these so called proffesional players. If only they as a management group had the balls to drop the lot and play the kids at the weekend to teach them a lesson, but this would just give people another reason to rant. My father has been attending games since the 50s, his idea is if we are getting the same drivel at the weekend is this. Five minutes into the second half, turn your back on the match and start singing YOURE NOT FIT TO WEAR THE SHIRT because unlike us they have no love for the colour they play in, they have turned their back on all that we hold dear, we want the glory and they want our cash. PUSB

Sick Boy said:

What about those posters who genuinely believed that he was one of the latest brightest managers in the game and that we would be lucky to hold onto him? There was even talk of him being snapped up by a Premier League club and that he was our greatest manager since Sillett.

Not to mention the laughable comments about storming the league with WHU and gaining promotion months before the seasons had finished. Imagine the Hammers' reaction to the post-match interviews.

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Are you suggesting that that was the general view?

If you are, I disagree.

Have you ever considered that it's even possible that one or two such statements may have been posted as wind ups?

DazzleTommyDazzle said:

Have you ever considered that it's even possible that one or two such statements may have been posted as wind ups?

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No, sadly I don't think they were!

Sick Boy said:

Of course they are not ideal but we haven't had an 'ideal' owner for a long time. Now many seem to have conveniently forgotten who got the club into this mess in the first place, the rot had already started long before SISU even got here.

Who would you rather have here? Richardson? Robinson? Mike Mcginnity? Ken Dulieu?

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We've had a legacy of very, very poor leadership at the top for a long time. Harking back to things being worse in times past doesn't make what we have now 'good'. Think about it, under SISU, how many directors have we had - many of whom never even attended a game? How many new ideas, from Brody and his text-in-your-substitutes, through to Orange Ken and his tracksuit in the dug-out?

Now we've got these two. We've start the summer with a transfer embargo, spend the summer in court and now have been the first Football League club to sack their manager this season. As of last night we sit at the foot of the third tier of football. And this morning we learn that the manager they've been interviewing whilst losing games isn't within our budget in any case.

I'm still not convinced by SISU, or any 'front men' they offer up. That's my point. I refuse to permit them no responsibility for where we currently are. They may be better than what's come before them - they may not prove so - but that's far from making me happy with their running of my, and your club

Sick Boy said:

The only mistake that they have made so far was not sacking Thorn sooner.

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Not there only mistake, not even close but I agree if they didn't want Thorn he should have gone after the Southampton game